demersel wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
Make of that what you will....
How can you still complete the suicide mission, after having done arrival, if you never woke up in arrival for real until the end of Mass Effect 3?
HellishFiend wrote...
Havent we already been over this? If you want to engage in hand waving and dismissal because of playing missions outside of canonical order, that is your problem, not mine.
demersel wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
Havent we already been over this? If you want to engage in hand waving and dismissal because of playing missions outside of canonical order, that is your problem, not mine.
No we haven't in fact. And if there was any handwaving - than it was done by you exactly in regards to that particular question.
HellishFiend wrote...
demersel wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
Havent we already been over this? If you want to engage in hand waving and dismissal because of playing missions outside of canonical order, that is your problem, not mine.
No we haven't in fact. And if there was any handwaving - than it was done by you exactly in regards to that particular question.
I'm not interested in discussing the implications of hypothetical non-canon scenarios. If you want to call that hand waving, that is your choice. In any case, I'm not here to try to convince anyone of anything. I'm just pointing things out and saying you should make of it what you will. That's all.
demersel wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
demersel wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
Havent we already been over this? If you want to engage in hand waving and dismissal because of playing missions outside of canonical order, that is your problem, not mine.
No we haven't in fact. And if there was any handwaving - than it was done by you exactly in regards to that particular question.
I'm not interested in discussing the implications of hypothetical non-canon scenarios. If you want to call that hand waving, that is your choice. In any case, I'm not here to try to convince anyone of anything. I'm just pointing things out and saying you should make of it what you will. That's all.
There is that handwaving attitude again. It is not hypothetical or noncanon. It is in the game, the game adjust for it, by changing harbinger for a collector general. It would have been extremly easy to eliminate the very possibility of it non matching simply by making it only accessible after beating the suicide mission. And if that is all - don't come here at all.
Skillz1986 wrote...
I just don't get all the hate towards hellish. He does not pretend to try and discuss things..al he does is stating his thoughts and telling people to make of it what they want. Then people try to discuss the stuff he just posted and accuse him of handwaving arguments just because he-as he stated in his first post- does not want to discuss what he just posted. No hate towards you dem..but this is basically what just happened.
Hellish: here are somethings i noticed that i'm not trying to convince anyone of.
Dem: well you won't convince me me because...
Hellish: as i said, i do not try to convince anyone of anything
Dem: well if you' re not willing to try and convince me..do not come her at all.
Modifié par draconian139, 03 janvier 2013 - 07:09 .
draconian139 wrote...
This just makes me glad I don't do Arrival, lol.
HellishFiend wrote...
draconian139 wrote...
This just makes me glad I don't do Arrival, lol.
That's fine, but if you havent already, I would suggest at least watching a playthrough of it on youtube or something. There are a lot of relevant events and tidbits of lore that are vital to the way Shepard's story plays out, regardless of which interpretation anyone chooses to believe.
Modifié par draconian139, 03 janvier 2013 - 07:15 .
draconian139 wrote...
This just makes me glad I don't do Arrival, lol.
Edit: Though I am curious Hellish, what do you make of the events you described and dependent upon your interpretation does it matter that its possible in ME3 that it wasn't even Shepard who went there?
draconian139 wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
draconian139 wrote...
This just makes me glad I don't do Arrival, lol.
That's fine, but if you havent already, I would suggest at least watching a playthrough of it on youtube or something. There are a lot of relevant events and tidbits of lore that are vital to the way Shepard's story plays out, regardless of which interpretation anyone chooses to believe.
Yea, I've watched the cutscenes from it. Hackett can find someone else to tackle it if I'm not allowed to take backup though.
Skillz1986 wrote...
Sorry dem...i should have specified..the post was only partially addressed to you. But i have been here for a long time, and there seems to be a general (growing) hate towards him...i just don't get. I don't accuse you of hating him, just didn't see any sense in you accusing him of handwaving ypu arguments while you were doing the same (everything he stated is fact..whether you like it or not). You might not agree with his interpretation of the events taking place during arrival (neither do i) but they should raise few questions. But as he said...he does not want to lead you to believe his interpretation "make of it what you will"
HellishFiend wrote...
Andromidius wrote...
Let's think back to Kenson during Arrival. They were all set to delay the Reaper's plans by doing something horrific, sacrificing the lives of hundreds of thousands of 'innocent' Batarians and destroying irreplaceable technology. And then suddenly she and her team are convinced that's a bad idea, because killing people is wrong and they might be wrong about the Reaper's intent as well! Maybe they are friendly, and will help uplift Humanity?
That entire scenario was bogus. The reapers were never going to fly into that system and use that relay. Why would the Reapers arrive if you're inside the asteroid but not if youre out on the surface? If the timer runs out while you're in the asteroid, you have a dream. If the timer runs out while youre outside on the asteroid's surface, nothing happens. Nothing at all. Furthermore, even if the Reapers WERE arriving into that system to use the "Alpha relay" to invade the galaxy, they would ostensibly have been close enough to have been hit by the blast from the exploding relay. They would not put themselves in that risky scenario, and judging by the different ways it can play out, it should be obvious that they didnt.
Lastly, the Reapers cannot have taken direct control of Kenson, as she did not have visible Reaper tech alterations. Possessed Kenson and post-possessed Kenson has absolutely no Reaper tech on her body anywhere to be seen, and she says they "want Shepard alive", whereas we already know the Reapers are just fine with blowing him/her to bits if the situation presents itself.
Make of that what you will....
Skillz1986 wrote...
Sorry dem...i should have specified..the post was only partially addressed to you. But i have been here for a long time, and there seems to be a general (growing) hate towards him...i just don't get. I don't accuse you of hating him, just didn't see any sense in you accusing him of handwaving ypu arguments while you were doing the same (everything he stated is fact..whether you like it or not). You might not agree with his interpretation of the events taking place during arrival (neither do i) but they should raise few questions. But as he said...he does not want to lead you to believe his interpretation "make of it what you will"
demersel wrote...
draconian139 wrote...
It is if you interpret shooting him in the head to be it.
Yes. Great idea. Real thinker here. You know what you are when you shoot the catalyst? You're that stupid krogan from Feros who can't get past the VI interface, get's angry and shoots the hologram. - and since it does nothing - he is stuck in the infinite loop of his own stupidity, while there is already a line behind him, waiting to use the terminal.
By picking refuse you are just dumb. You can be paragon dumb, by listenig to the thing and then making a speech, or you can be renegade dumb - by shooting the thing. But both path is you being DUMB, thick, retatarded, idiot, whatever you call. Don't go anywhere parading your own stupidity. Especially here.
TheConstantOne wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
Andromidius wrote...
Let's think back to Kenson during Arrival. They were all set to delay the Reaper's plans by doing something horrific, sacrificing the lives of hundreds of thousands of 'innocent' Batarians and destroying irreplaceable technology. And then suddenly she and her team are convinced that's a bad idea, because killing people is wrong and they might be wrong about the Reaper's intent as well! Maybe they are friendly, and will help uplift Humanity?
That entire scenario was bogus. The reapers were never going to fly into that system and use that relay. Why would the Reapers arrive if you're inside the asteroid but not if youre out on the surface? If the timer runs out while you're in the asteroid, you have a dream. If the timer runs out while youre outside on the asteroid's surface, nothing happens. Nothing at all. Furthermore, even if the Reapers WERE arriving into that system to use the "Alpha relay" to invade the galaxy, they would ostensibly have been close enough to have been hit by the blast from the exploding relay. They would not put themselves in that risky scenario, and judging by the different ways it can play out, it should be obvious that they didnt.
Lastly, the Reapers cannot have taken direct control of Kenson, as she did not have visible Reaper tech alterations. Possessed Kenson and post-possessed Kenson has absolutely no Reaper tech on her body anywhere to be seen, and she says they "want Shepard alive", whereas we already know the Reapers are just fine with blowing him/her to bits if the situation presents itself.
Make of that what you will....
Actually I think it is safe to say the Reapers were coming to the Bahak system. Kenson was thoroughly indoctrinated by the time Shepard got there (obviously) so they had ready access to her thoughts. Once Shepard puts the last cooling rod into place, at that point the Reapers abandon their plans for starting their invasion through Bahak. This can be inferred because Kenson says that she "can't hear whispers anymore." Lastly, the supernova shockwave is not an issue, mass effect drives allow ships to travel faster than light and Reapers have pretty sizeable mass effect drives. All they would need to do is FTL away from the shockwave and the blast would never reach them.
And while the Reapers have no problem killing Shepard if they have to, they would prefer him alive for their experiments. Kenson had that opportunity and failed them
TheProtheans wrote...
demersel wrote...
draconian139 wrote...
It is if you interpret shooting him in the head to be it.
Yes. Great idea. Real thinker here. You know what you are when you shoot the catalyst? You're that stupid krogan from Feros who can't get past the VI interface, get's angry and shoots the hologram. - and since it does nothing - he is stuck in the infinite loop of his own stupidity, while there is already a line behind him, waiting to use the terminal.
By picking refuse you are just dumb. You can be paragon dumb, by listenig to the thing and then making a speech, or you can be renegade dumb - by shooting the thing. But both path is you being DUMB, thick, retatarded, idiot, whatever you call. Don't go anywhere parading your own stupidity. Especially here.
In Literal
Refuse is the fight against unknown problems and technology, you say "f**k you" to magic, bad writing and maybe Bioware too.
It is standing by your Shepard's principles and the ends don't justify the means.
It is the bittersweet sacrifice the galaxy needed to get rid of the Reaper problem.
In IT
Refuse is the best ending as all the other endings result in Shepard being indoctrinated to some degree.
So who is really the idiot?
A refuser or the guy who can't spell a word he uses to try and insult people.
Modifié par draconian139, 03 janvier 2013 - 07:40 .
Modifié par draconian139, 03 janvier 2013 - 07:50 .
Andromidius wrote...
Skillz1986 wrote...
I am with doomsday on this one because of one sentence uttered by starbrat. But this sentence makes it quite clear IMO that destroy is not a option offered by himself. "i know you thought about destroying us" this sentence implies that destroy is only there because this is is whwt shepard thinks the crucible will do. After starbrat says this..he does does everything to divert you from choosing it.
Indeed. There are no real choices being given. The object of the exercise is to get Shepard to want a different choice. To make Shepard think destroying the Reapers isn't a good idea after all, and that they can get along and live in peace and harmony.
"You want to destroy us? Well sure, you could destroy us, but you really don't want to do that do you? I mean you'll kill the Geth, EDI and yourself as well! What do you mean being partially synthetic hasn't improved your existance, it saved your life (and please forget that you only died because of minions under Reaper control were sent to blow your ship up while you were inside, that's totally irrelivent)! But hey, how about this neat idea I just thought up, all because of your hard work and amazing dedication! You sure are unique and special, so I'm going to let you pick this amazing choice that I was thinking about for a while but was never possible without your special input!
Now kill yourself. Just over there. Yeah, right there. Gooooood. Hold still!"
Seems legit.
Let's think back to Kenson during Arrival. They were all set to delay the Reaper's plans by doing something horrific, sacrificing the lives of hundreds of thousands of 'innocent' Batarians and destroying irreplaceable technology. And then suddenly she and her team are convinced that's a bad idea, because killing people is wrong and they might be wrong about the Reaper's intent as well! Maybe they are friendly, and will help uplift Humanity?
Its EXACTLY the same as Shepard's choice, only taken up a noche. You're all set to end the Reaper's plans forever, and you know you need to sacrifice the lives of countless innocents and potentially destroy technology that can never be replaced. Then you get talked into thinking that's a bad thing to do, killing innocents, and that you don't understand the Reapers and really they want to be your friends and uplift Humanity (and everyone else too!).
The difference? Shepard pushed that button in Arrival without a second thought after Kenson showed her true colours and that she had no intention of carrying out her mission.
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