80611 réponses à ce sujet

[umadcommander]

Norlond wrote...

umadcommander wrote...
needs a monocleB)

perfect:lol:

[draconian139]

masster blaster wrote...



Think about it this way. Destroy is Shepard staying to to his/her primeary mission. Refuse Shepard is not. It's like the Reapers respect Shepard. Hence why they let him/her pick Destroy. You also have to think about Harbinger is still around. If Shepard is not doing anything in Refuse, then Harbinger will kill Shepard. More over it's like Shepard is walking around in the Conduit area. What ending he/her picks is what's going to happen to her.

Refuse: Reapers refuse Shepard/
Destroy: Reapers Destroy Shepard, yet fail if you have high ems.
Control: Reapers gain control over Shepard.
Synthesis: Reapers synthesis Shepard.

Aww Harby don't make me sad, give me one more chance.  I'm sure we can make it work:wub:.

[Restrider]

TJBartlemus wrote...

How much is 100 euro in American dollars anyway?

130$ as of now.
The real question, how much will it be in gold in the future, regardless of $ or €?

[Skillz1986]

I can do it again
Low ems/collector base destroyed

Because he destroyed the base in me 2 your shepard is someone who does not believe he needs anything the reapers ca offer him to defeat them. He will "fight and win without it" and "won't let fear compromise" who he is...this is part ne of why "destroy" will always be a given, no matte ems.

Ems comes in to play from the catalyst's pov.

Since we're talking about low ems here, the catalyst does not even bother to change your mind about trying to destroy them. With your s**tty ems you can't defeat them...you are "dust struggling against cosmic winds"

High ems collector base destroyed:

Part 1 stays the same..shepard came her to destroy the reapers, hence the option remains.

But now star brat is somewhat concerned. Because shepard certainly manage to assemble an enormous fleet and army of people who will follow him to hell and back if they have to. He can see now that when shepard sticks to his guns and to the idea to destroy the reapers..he could be in serious trouble. So he invents other choices..to make shepard belive that desttoy is in fact a stupod idea, what with all those geht and edi's dying. The possibility of shepard dying himself (even you are partially synthetic) and all of this sacrifice maybe in vain after all (the peace won't last bla bla nla). So he says "if you chose this..the only one dying will be you..and the peace will last."..thus giving him two options n which noone except shepard has to die..and which will keep the peace.

[TheProtheans]

Restrider wrote...

I wouldn't go that far to say that Destroy is a trap (though all three choices were fishy in my eyes in my first playthrough).

I understand the reasoning to say that Destroy is breaking the indoctrination and I support it.

However, I do not share the same outlook most regular posters in this thread have towards Refuse. Usually people paint it like only inactive, super-stubborn morons would choose it and make the wildest comparisons (like saying Kenson=Refuse, which is utter bullcrap in my eyes). I also understand their reasoning behind these assertions, but I do not share them. This line is usually neglected in this kind of discussion. It shows a behaviour that my Shepards usually had during the trilogy.
Regarding the lack of a breath scene in Refuse:
I'd say that Starbringer's "SO BE IT!" line could be that. It is vague enough to not totally spoil future (IT) content, but shows us an interesting aspect of Starbinger.
If we had a breath scene in Refuse (equal to that in Destroy), it would give away that something was totally off - even more than the breath scene in Destroy.
How would you even do that? Showing it after the Liara-VI scene, supposedly happening up to 50 000 years in the future and then jumping back to Shepard's time??? No way...

In conclusion:
Right now High EMS Destroy seems to be the best solution in regards to IT, but I would not discount Refuse at all.

Liara - VI is very short, could be playing in Shepard mind.
But it could be so short because of Shepards stance

Destroy, Synthesis and Control have long drawn out ones.

Modifié par TheProtheans, 03 janvier 2013 - 09:40 .

[masster blaster]

[quote]Restrider wrote...

[quote]TheProtheans wrote...

That's like saying Bioware didn't want to ruin the surpise in Destroy when Bioware revealed new content.[/quote]

The surprise of what? They fooled people into thinking it was him waking up following the literal ending, it doesn't ruin it as most people still think that.
Others speculate but have no way of knowing.
Refusal would ruin the surprise, destroy wouldn't and didn't.

[/quote]

I wouldn't go that far to say that Destroy is a trap (though all three choices were fishy in my eyes in my first playthrough).

I understand the reasoning to say that Destroy is breaking the indoctrination and I support it.

However, I do not share the same outlook most regular posters in this thread have towards Refuse. Usually people paint it like only inactive, super-stubborn morons would choose it and make the wildest comparisons (like saying Kenson=Refuse, which is utter bullcrap in my eyes). I also understand their reasoning behind these assertions, but I do not share them. This line is usually neglected in this kind of discussion. It shows a behaviour that my Shepards usually had during the trilogy.
Regarding the lack of a breath scene in Refuse:
I'd say that Starbringer's "SO BE IT!" line could be that. It is vague enough to not totally spoil future (IT) content, but shows us an interesting aspect of Starbinger.
If we had a breath scene in Refuse (equal to that in Destroy), it would give away that something was totally off - even more than the breath scene in Destroy.
How would you even do that? Showing it after the Liara-VI scene, supposedly happening up to 50 000 years in the future and then jumping back to Shepard's time??? No way...

In conclusion:
Right now High EMS Destroy seems to be the best solution in regards to IT, but I would not discount Refuse at all.

[/quote]

For me I do. Refuse leaves Shepard's honor in tack. In this war that is not going to happen, and why should I refuse.

Am I refusing the brat because I don't trust it, or am I refusing the brat because I don't want to believe what he is telling me, which may be true. I see no Reason why anyone would pick Refuse. If I wanted the Reapers dead I would pick Destroy. IT, or Literal Destroy is the best way.

1. It's what Shepard was going to do since ME1.
2.Shepard in the
suicide mission told everyone they would have to give their lives to
stop the collectors, and now you have to give up Shepard's, EDI, and the Geths lives to stop the Reapers. IT or literal.
3.Everyone tells you to take the shot when ever it comes down to Destroying the Reapers for good.
4.
Why should I believe in what the brat says in Destroy, if he is lying
to me about Destroy? I mean Shepard wakes up right, so how do I know he coned me out of picking the only way to wake up.
5. Anderson advocates Destroy should I not trust Anderson?

[dorktainian]

ah... i see. in that case you are accepting that destroy will destroy the reapers, not destroy shepard? Do you know the 'So Be It' star brat gives you? I was always assuming (due to indoctrination) that star brat realised he could not persuade you, and that you were ready to fight.....which is not what he really wanted. I could be wrong. I do think the decision chamber is just one big Decision wheel for consequences yet to happen tho.

[Skillz1986]

When the collector base was kept on the other hand, shepard is someone who does not believe in destroying the reapers on their own terms. He believes they will need help in form of reaper based tech and /or weapons

Low ems

Control is the only choice (if i am not mistaken) Shepard knows he does not stamd a chance against the reapers with his s**tty ems. So the catalyst tells him "well..you can still make peace".

High ems destroy is now available as a choice since shepard sees there may also be a chance to defeat the reapers..but the catalyst also realizes that shepard knows this and once again points out..how stupid the idea of destroy is

[masster blaster]

TheProtheans wrote...

Restrider wrote...

I wouldn't go that far to say that Destroy is a trap (though all three choices were fishy in my eyes in my first playthrough).

I understand the reasoning to say that Destroy is breaking the indoctrination and I support it.

However, I do not share the same outlook most regular posters in this thread have towards Refuse. Usually people paint it like only inactive, super-stubborn morons would choose it and make the wildest comparisons (like saying Kenson=Refuse, which is utter bullcrap in my eyes). I also understand their reasoning behind these assertions, but I do not share them. This line is usually neglected in this kind of discussion. It shows a behaviour that my Shepards usually had during the trilogy.
Regarding the lack of a breath scene in Refuse:
I'd say that Starbringer's "SO BE IT!" line could be that. It is vague enough to not totally spoil future (IT) content, but shows us an interesting aspect of Starbinger.
If we had a breath scene in Refuse (equal to that in Destroy), it would give away that something was totally off - even more than the breath scene in Destroy.
How would you even do that? Showing it after the Liara-VI scene, supposedly happening up to 50 000 years in the future and then jumping back to Shepard's time??? No way...

In conclusion:
Right now High EMS Destroy seems to be the best solution in regards to IT, but I would not discount Refuse at all.

Liara - VI is very short, could be playing in Shepard mind.
But it could be so short because of Shepards stance

Destroy, Synthesis and Control have long drawn out ones.

AS is all the other endings.
The endings make sure that Shepard is done with the war, and can rest now, yet in Destroy Shepard does not rest, but wakes up/ rises again.

[Restrider]

TheProtheans wrote...

Restrider wrote...

How would you even do that? Showing it after the Liara-VI scene, supposedly happening up to 50 000 years in the future and then jumping back to Shepard's time??? No way...

In conclusion:
Right now High EMS Destroy seems to be the best solution in regards to IT, but I would not discount Refuse at all.

Liara - VI is very short, could be playing in Shepard mind.
But it could be so short because of Shepards stance

Destroy, Synthesis and Control have long drawn out ones.

I am on your side (though not that extremist in regards to Destroy). IF Refuse had a Breath Scene in the EC like Destroy has, where would you place it? If it was as I pointed out to you, no one should take this literal!

This just shows that your assertion that a Breath Scene would spoil future (IT) content is totally correct.

[Skillz1986]

@dorkta ian


No..i believe that choosing destroy means not changing your mimd about it.

[draconian139]

@Blaster, My reason for choosing refuse:As much as Shepard would love to believe that walking right up to that tube and shooting it will destroy the reapers at no real cost to the galaxy its just too good to be true.

Also, why is it that you can't shoot the tube from a distance?

[masster blaster]

dorktainian wrote...

ah... i see. in that case you are accepting that destroy will destroy the reapers, not destroy shepard? Do you know the 'So Be It' star brat gives you? I was always assuming (due to indoctrination) that star brat realised he could not persuade you, and that you were ready to fight.....which is not what he really wanted. I could be wrong. I do think the decision chamber is just one big Decision wheel for consequences yet to happen tho.

Because we are refusing to pick Control, and Synthesis. The brat doesn't give a dam about Destroy. He wouldn't get angry if Shepard didn't want to pick Destroy, but Control, and Synthesis hell yes. Also in Refuse yet it proves the ya "SO BE IT", yet you have to think if the Reapers are inside his/her mind, do you think they are just going to let Shepard go. Hell no. Destroy however, they can't do anything about, but refuse hell ya they can.

[dorktainian]

Skillz. it does kinda make sense. in that way all your decisions would matter. the major problem i have with the equation is the whole ems thing tho. ems - as it is doesnt make any sense at all. it's just numbers, and the actual assets values dont make any sense.

Speculations eh?

[masster blaster]

draconian139 wrote...

@Blaster, My reason for choosing refuse:As much as Shepard would love to believe that walking right up to that tube and shooting it will destroy the reapers at no real cost to the galaxy its just too good to be true.

Also, why is it that you can't shoot the tube from a distance?

It's like this the further you are away, the more you are close into
losing your will to fight. The closer you are the more you regain your
will power. In Destroy Shepard slowly regain his/her willpower, and
break the hold on the Reapers. Hence why the tube blows up. Cutting the connection off.

[Restrider]

I'd like to also add the stargazer scenes in RGB and Refuse:

You may say they are different, but only in what is said and the proportions of the persons there.
However, we are still on the same planet with two moons regardless of our choice.
Remember that the jungle world the Normandy crashes on in RGB also has two moons and the next planet we see has two aswell. The first times I saw these scenes, I thought that these persons are descendants of the Normandy's crew. I just assumed it is the same planet!

This convinced me that all stargazer scenes are a hallucination, outside of the narrative our at least not to be taken literally.

[draconian139]

masster blaster wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

ah... i see. in that case you are accepting that destroy will destroy the reapers, not destroy shepard? Do you know the 'So Be It' star brat gives you? I was always assuming (due to indoctrination) that star brat realised he could not persuade you, and that you were ready to fight.....which is not what he really wanted. I could be wrong. I do think the decision chamber is just one big Decision wheel for consequences yet to happen tho.

Because we are refusing to pick Control, and Synthesis. The brat doesn't give a dam about Destroy. He wouldn't get angry if Shepard didn't want to pick Destroy, but Control, and Synthesis hell yes. Also in Refuse yet it proves the ya "SO BE IT", yet you have to think if the Reapers are inside his/her mind, do you think they are just going to let Shepard go. Hell no. Destroy however, they can't do anything about, but refuse hell ya they can.

I don't believe they'd let him go.  I think they'd kill him at this point or leave him a gibbering fool as he can't be channeled down any of the paths that they're fine with.

[Skillz1986]

The assets values p***ed me off from day one. I really can't figure those out. At least not right now. This maybe one of the few things i would (as of now) chalk up to carelesness from biowaee

[TheProtheans]

masster blaster wrote...

Think about it this way. Destroy is Shepard staying to to his/her primeary mission.

The primary mission of stopping the Reapers.

Refuse Shepard is not.

But destroy doesn't destroy the Reapers, you're lead to believe it does by the Reapers.
They let you think that you're destroying them, it is nothing more than an illusion to get you into a vulerable state where you think  you completed your mission and they can take advantage of you.

It's like the Reapers respect Shepard. Hence why they let him/her pick Destroy. You also have to think about Harbinger is still around. If Shepard is not doing anything in Refuse, then Harbinger will kill Shepard. More over it's like Shepard is walking around in the Conduit area. What ending he/her picks is what's going to happen to her.

Harbinger is not around.

Refuse: Reapers refuse Shepard/
Destroy: Reapers Destroy Shepard, yet fail if you have high ems.
Control: Reapers gain control over Shepard.
Synthesis: Reapers synthesis Shepard.

An interesting but weird view on the ending.

Modifié par TheProtheans, 03 janvier 2013 - 09:53 .

[masster blaster]

Restrider wrote...

I'd like to also add the stargazer scenes in RGB and Refuse:

You may say they are different, but only in what is said and the proportions of the persons there.
However, we are still on the same planet with two moons regardless of our choice.
Remember that the jungle world the Normandy crashes on in RGB also has two moons and the next planet we see has two aswell. The first times I saw these scenes, I thought that these persons are descendants of the Normandy's crew. I just assumed it is the same planet!

This convinced me that all stargazer scenes are a hallucination, outside of the narrative our at least not to be taken literally.

it's there in my opinion that ther is one more story left to go.

Child: Tell me another story about the Shepard.
Stargazer: It's getting late but okay one more story.

People say dlc's, but then that means we got 2 storys, and mabye one more to go.

[dorktainian]

so are we going along with the fact the decision chamber is the indoctrination of Shepard then? The next DLC will play off your choices?

If thats the case.... Brilliant.

[CoolioThane]

 
Shepard Alive
Sense of hope
1) Finale 2) brave new world 3) symbolic

So is Shepard to live through the ending? A sense of hope, eh? Breath scene = hope, obviously. The scenes on Eden could be classed as hopeful as well?

1) Finale, obviously as we're at the end of the game

2) brave new world...1931 novel by Aldous Huxley about a "utopian" society. This clearly points towards synthesis, and interestingly enough, the brave new world the characters live in, just is. It might appear as a utopia, but I'd argue it to be a dystopia. Civilians have no freedom, no personal liberties and when one person finds he is aware, it is near impossible to break from this FORCED life. Babies are indoctrinated with propaganda to show their class is the best, whilst the others exist to perform needed functions. Any residual unhappiness is sorted out by pumping them full of antidepressant and hallucinogenic drugs.

I'm sure you can all see the parallels there with synthesis, and to me shows it to be a negative. Even without indicating IT/literal it does place synthesis in a bad light, so perhaps synth-supporters should read the book before bowing down to it.

3) Symbolic. This is our bread and butter. Control is symbolic of TIM, Synthesis of Saren and Destroy of Shepard/Anderson. It is no mistake that two of the three choices (Refuse is not a part of this, and I personally now believe refuse to be the wrong choice) are symbolic of the two main enemies of the series. It shows them to be wrong choices, and Destroy is the only true path.


Bomb - Sacrifice Self
Reaper - Take Control
Hybrid - blast goes out...

Okay, so Bomb=Destroy, we sacrifice ourself to save the Galaxy. 
Reaper=control, we do what TIM wants
Hybrid=Synthesis, the hybrid of organics and synthetics. Vague "blast goes out..." indicative of an unfinished idea for what would truly happen to Shepard? Or maybe the Crucible itself was originally to be used for synthesis, with destroy setting off a bomb and control...who knows?

That could put further evidence behind the crucible being a trap, as if that is right, the act of using the crucible leads to a brave new world scenerio therefore bad. 


Destroy Life - Creates Life -

Choice -> Catalyst -> Shepard's Essence

Destroying life creates life? Could that perhaps be the starchild's early explanation for the harvest? They destroy life of the current cycle so the life of the next can be created? As most of us believe, the circular logic of starchild is wrong.

The "ladder" type diagram interested me, and the first thing it made me think of was the layout of the decision chamber, with the three distinct areas of the choice, the starchild and the player...but wait, on the left "Choice, Catalyst, Shepard's Essence" - Essence, eh? Sounds to me like it could be Shepard's essence in the decision chamber and not Shepard's physical body. That provides some evidence for IT in my opinion.


Foreshadow -> Reaper (INSERT WORD HERE) -> said by reaper -> Weakness for Reapers

Device -> Foreshadowing

Device -> Vague Terms

Device -> Impacts Everything -> Reaper (INSERT WORD HERE)

Lots of foreshadowing for the ending choices? I think that's a given, looking back over the games with Saren/Overlord perhaps foreshadowing Synthesis, TIM/Cerberus foreshadowing Control and EVERYTHING ANYONE SAYS foreshadowing Destroy in ME3 

why use vague terms for the device(crucible) if there was not anything to hide. I'm therefore inferring the crucible is a trap/ there is a hell of a lot more to it that the Reapers don't want us to know.

I'm annoyed I can't read the word after "Reaper" but it is followed in the diagram by "said by reaper" (I think) and then "weakness for Reapers"  -> This is interesting and would like to hear anyone's thoughts on what this could relate to


Chain Reaction -> Ends Conflict -> "Ambiguous function" and "They say bomb"

This most likely referring to the chain reaction of the relays in the endings, and sticks with the "ambiguous function" of the crucible, as we are still not clear on what the **** it does, truly. "They say bomb"...could this mean there is more to Destroy than meets the eye as well? Could mean breath scene but could perhaps warn us that it is not truly a "bomb"...

as the chain reaction was part of the ending from the start, I find it very unlikely they'd make the mistake they did make with them by accident. It's done on purpose from a relay that does not exist in the game.


Endings - how do they feel?

brave new world + End of the First Matrix

I guess they're asking ME how they feel. Well, Control feels very sinister, very "Germany i the 30's and 40's", Synthesis feels like a ****ing abomination and a disgusting pile of **** on the face of a DYSTOPIAN wankfest. Destroy is good, I like it. Refuse is depressing and wrong.

brave new world again, they seem to want to put across the whole "utopia on the face, creepy, disturbing dystopia below". The end of the first matrix is another interesting thing to write. At the end of The Matrix, Agent Smith kills Neo inside the Matrix, meaning he dies in real life. Trinity kisses real life dead-Neo and he lives again...this time at full NEO power and easily defeats Smith before getting out of the Matrix in time to destroy all of the synthetic sentinels attacking the ship.

well, well, well...sounds awful similar to IT if you ask me We die in the decision chamber...yet with a high enough EMS we wake up in rubble on Earth. So...do you think having a high enough EMS is like the Trinity kiss and we go on to defeat the synthetic sentinels attacking? Death to the Reaper scum!


Shepard's Death

Theories about all things

Boy But why did he have to die?

Sheapard dying is a pretty common theme across all four endings except high-EMS destroy. Theories about all things is kinda funny, as it is exactly what is happening. Have we cottoned on to the true theory? IMO yes, but only they know.

Boy "But why did he have to die?" - Perhaps the original line that the stargazer child says at the Wintersun scene? Interesting if we survive in High EMS Destroy though 

AND FINALLY

Yes...yes indeed you sadistic bastards 

Hope you liked this, it's not very detailed and I'm sorry but thought we could talk about something.

[draconian139]

masster blaster wrote...

draconian139 wrote...

@Blaster, My reason for choosing refuse:As much as Shepard would love to believe that walking right up to that tube and shooting it will destroy the reapers at no real cost to the galaxy its just too good to be true.

Also, why is it that you can't shoot the tube from a distance?

It's like this the further you are away, the more you are close into
losing your will to fight. The closer you are the more you regain your
will power. In Destroy Shepard slowly regain his/her willpower, and
break the hold on the Reapers. Hence why the tube blows up. Cutting the connection off.

Interesting and reasonable interpretation.  To me it came off as suicidal though.  In my first playthrough when I finally accepted that I had to choose between the three options and started moving I was shooting at the tube the entire time that I was shuffling towards it.  It just seemed dumb that it never blew until I was right up next to it, I can see where you're coming from though.

[Restrider]

dorktainian wrote...

Skillz. it does kinda make sense. in that way all your decisions would matter. the major problem i have with the equation is the whole ems thing tho. ems - as it is doesnt make any sense at all. it's just numbers, and the actual assets values dont make any sense.

Speculations eh?

The best EMS weirdness is still the way Anderson dies. If he was killed by TIM with Shepard not being able to have a last speech to Anderson, then magically High EMS Destroy requires 1000 EMS more (afaik).
Anderson however, dies regardless and has no real influence on the battle or the functionality of the Crucible, only on Shepard's resolve.
You could interpret that Shepard has a stronger will to live, even in a literal POV. But if the line between physical assets (fleets, soldiers, technology...) and assets that strengthen Shepard's resolve (and these heavily outnumbering the physical assests in proportion) blurs, we assume that Shepard's mental state has indeed influence on the endings. Going down this path usually ends in some sort of non-literal ending (such as IT).

[masster blaster]

TheProtheans wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Think about it this way. Destroy is Shepard staying to to his/her primeary mission.

The primary mission of stopping the Reapers.

At all cost.

Refuse Shepard is not.

But destroy doesn't destroy the Reapers, you're lead to believe it does by the Reapers.
They let you think that you're destroying them, it is nothing more than an illusion to get you into a vulerable state where you think completed your mission and they can take advantage of you.


AS in refuse. Does it Destroy the Reapers no. Yes both of the endings don't Destroy the Reapers on the IT world, but Destroy is just more appeling.

It's like the Reapers respect Shepard. Hence why they let him/her pick Destroy. You also have to think about Harbinger is still around. If Shepard is not doing anything in Refuse, then Harbinger will kill Shepard. More over it's like Shepard is walking around in the Conduit area. What ending he/her picks is what's going to happen to her.

Harbinger is not around.


Um in the IT world yes he is.

Refuse: Reapers refuse Shepard/ and kill Shepard.
Destroy: Reapers Destroy Shepard, yet fail if you have high ems.
Control: Reapers gain control over Shepard.
Synthesis: Reapers synthesis Shepard.

An interesting but weird view on the ending.

That's what I lead to believe.