80611 réponses à ce sujet

[byne]

Steelcan wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
Additionally, I firmly believe that the original RGB endings were supposed to be a dead giveaway that the whole thing was just a computer simulation. Change a few variables, different colour, tada, different story for Shepard.

Well it's not like they're actually labeled "red, blue, green".  ...  Oh wait. 

Also, remember how Starbinger's original line was:

"... or do you think you can control us?"

That line was changed because it made it sound way too doubtful. IT was so obvious in the original ending.

. I admit I really bought into IT before the EC.

I never understood the whole idea that expanding on the endings somehow disproved IT.

Remember that time when you had a dream, but then a few nights later, you had the same dream, but it was a bit longer, so it became real?

I sure dont.

[BleedingUranium]

byne wrote...

I never understood the whole idea that expanding on the endings somehow disproved IT.

Remember that time when you had a dream, but then a few nights later, you had the same dream, but it was a bit longer, so it became real?

I sure dont.

Your posts are always the best

[Humakt83]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Also, remember how Starbinger's original line was:

"... or do you think you can control us?"

That line was changed because it made it sound way too doubtful. IT was so obvious in the original ending.

Not to mention that the whole scene reminded me of Retribution:

http://social.biowar.../index/12241848

[Jadebaby]

draconian139 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...
So people, what do we think of the refusal option?

Not this again, I think we beat it to death earlier.  Those that prefer refuse(like me) and those that are against aren't going to change their minds as there's no new arguments that I know of.

I'm just saying, maybe it's better for all these guys to start hating on something together, outside of the thread, instead of each other.

Fact is, anyone who says that Indoctrination is a fact or that IT has been "proven" is a zealot.

And it's these kinds of people that detract others from embracing the IT. So it's ultimately counter-productive to your cause. I mean it, go and ask on the boards. Most people don't hate the idea of IT, they hate the ITers. More specifically it's because of the zealots not being able to compromise for other people's interpretations. Now, most people just ignore these types. But when you guys start fighting with each other because of it. And great people like Lex0r11 no less? Well, something needs to be said.

I don't care if this post makes you guys hate me. I have room in my interpretations for Indoctrination in the endings, nothing anyone says will change that and I most certainly don't need this thread to validate that. So I don't really care what anyone here thinks of me. This needed to be said.

So, as Riferno said. I'm going fucking martyr style. Hate me instead of each other. I don't care.

[masster blaster]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

So people, what do we think of the refusal option?

I always liked the idea of having refuse be kind of like a back up way out for the hallucination. You can always pick it, so no one could argue there was no way out. Now, I'm just spurting out ideas, but you could have refuse depend enormously on war assets (much like PT) and possibly the help of certain characters to help you out of it and survive. Namely, Javik, Liara, Rachni Queen, Shiala, possibly even the geth - anyone with any kind of mind powers.

Refuse as a way out in IT is really only hampered by 2 things:
1. No breath scene, but as Restrider already pointed out, that would simply confirm IT. (Yes Rif I know.)
2. It wasn't in the base game. I like the idea that it was always going to be added for a reveal, but they added it early (in a nonfinished state) because of fan outcry.

let it die Banshee. we argued for about 3 hours today about Refuse.

[DoomsdayDevice]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

So people, what do we think of the refusal option?

I always liked the idea of having refuse be kind of like a back up way out for the hallucination. You can always pick it, so no one could argue there was no way out. Now, I'm just spurting out ideas, but you could have refuse depend enormously on war assets (much like PT) and possibly the help of certain characters to help you out of it and survive. Namely, Javik, Liara, Rachni Queen, Shiala, possibly even the geth - anyone with any kind of mind powers.

Refuse as a way out in IT is really only hampered by 2 things:
1. No breath scene, but as Restrider already pointed out, that would simply confirm IT. (Yes Rif I know.)
2. It wasn't in the base game. I like the idea that it was always going to be added for a reveal, but they added it early (in a nonfinished state) because of fan outcry.

How about the fact that there is exactly zero foreshadowing for refuse and tons and tons for destroy?

How about the fact that refuse flies right in the face of the game's theme that a good soldier doesn't abandon the mission?

Yeah, I don't think refuse will win you the game.

[Steelcan]

CoolioThane wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Also, remember how Starbinger's original line was:

"... or do you think you can control us?"
That line was changed because it made it sound way too doubtful. IT was so obvious in the original ending.

. I admit I really bought into IT before the EC.

What was it about the EC that made you think IT was untrue?

A few things.  First and foremost BioWare, at least to me, didnt expand IT much with the EC, the EC seemed to be a full endorsemnet of the literal interpretation, and I'm sure you will all disagree with me.  It patched some of the more dream like qualities of the OE, like the squadmates being on the Normandy etc...

And the Normandy take off scene seemed to kill the idea of the Eden scene being a dream.  But again, I'm sure you all disagree.

[BleedingUranium]

Humakt83 wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Also, remember how Starbinger's original line was:

"... or do you think you can control us?"

That line was changed because it made it sound way too doubtful. IT was so obvious in the original ending.

Not to mention that the whole scene reminded me of Retribution:

http://social.biowar.../index/12241848

Synthesis FTW!

[masster blaster]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

draconian139 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...
So people, what do we think of the refusal option?

Not this again, I think we beat it to death earlier.  Those that prefer refuse(like me) and those that are against aren't going to change their minds as there's no new arguments that I know of.

I'm just saying, maybe it's better for all these guys to start hating on something together, outside of the thread, instead of each other.

Fact is, anyone who says that Indoctrination is a fact or that IT has been "proven" is a zealot.

And it's these kinds of people that detract others from embracing the IT. So it's ultimately counter-productive to your cause. I mean it, go and ask on the boards. Most people don't hate the idea of IT, they hate the ITers. More specifically it's because of the zealots not being able to compromise for other people's interpretations. Now, most people just ignore these types. But when you guys start fighting with each other because of it. And great people like Lex0r11 no less? Well, something needs to be said.

I don't care if this post makes you guys hate me. I have room in my interpretations for Indoctrination in the endings, nothing anyone says will change that and I most certainly don't need this thread to validate that. So I don't really care what anyone here thinks of me. This needed to be said.

So, as Riferno said. I'm going fucking martyr style. Hate me instead of each other. I don't care.

SO Blurr is one, Banshee is on, Thane is one, I am one. Thanks<_<

[demersel]

BleedingUranium wrote...

demersel wrote...

So, anyway.... About this crazy idea of mine that TIM is actulally a reaper... Remember that Cerberus Daily News story about the ancient ghost ship?
The one that stored an entire civilization in a digital form, allowing them all to live their lives in the matrix like enviroment?

And remember what happened next - they allince tried to make contact - one of the allince scientist got exposed and connected to the ship, and later it turned out that he had swapped minds with a being from that digital universe - he got in, while someone from the virtual world got ahold of his body, replaced him there? That sort of thing?

Remember what happened next? That entity, refused to go back, and escaped in that doctror's body - went on the run and into hiding. and later asked for a right of asylum?

That's basically what indoctrination is, just not so literally. So, in a way, you are right, TIM's a Reaper because he's indoctrinated.

No, that is not what i meant. 

What is important in this story is the fact that that entity does not want to go back.  That entity LIKES having a body and being able to walk around and interact with people, and socialize. This is very important. 

There is anothere example of this. How do you reckon - does EDI likes having a body? Does she enjoys having it? Judging from the way she goes about it, from her pose, her animations (she control the normandy by moving her fingers and tapping on the screen for, crist sake! If you think about it - that is basicly as close to masturbation as she can get, and she does it ALL the time:devil:.), the things she does, like her outing to the citadel - she absolutely LOVES it. 

[Rifneno]

Humakt83 wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Also, remember how Starbinger's original line was:

"... or do you think you can control us?"

That line was changed because it made it sound way too doubtful. IT was so obvious in the original ending.

Not to mention that the whole scene reminded me of Retribution:

http://social.biowar.../index/12241848

Wow.  I'd forgotten that.  Nice.

And am I the only one who expected Kahlee Sanders to wind up as more than a side note in an optional mission?  They built her up for 3 books (and whatever the hell Deception was), I was really expecting her to have a major role in the game's storyline.

[Steelcan]

byne wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
. I admit I really bought into IT before the EC.

I never understood the whole idea that expanding on the endings somehow disproved IT.

Remember that time when you had a dream, but then a few nights later, you had the same dream, but it was a bit longer, so it became real?

I sure dont.

The reason the EC burned It for me, was that it solved some of the more dream like qualities to the ending.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Also, remember how Starbinger's original line was:

"... or do you think you can control us?"

That line was changed because it made it sound way too doubtful. IT was so obvious in the original ending.

I thought he still said that, but it was dependant on if you said the top or bottom option when given Destroy.

[CoolioThane]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

draconian139 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...
So people, what do we think of the refusal option?

Not this again, I think we beat it to death earlier.  Those that prefer refuse(like me) and those that are against aren't going to change their minds as there's no new arguments that I know of.

I'm just saying, maybe it's better for all these guys to start hating on something together, outside of the thread, instead of each other.

Fact is, anyone who says that Indoctrination is a fact or that IT has been "proven" is a zealot.

And it's these kinds of people that detract others from embracing the IT. So it's ultimately counter-productive to your cause. I mean it, go and ask on the boards. Most people don't hate the idea of IT, they hate the ITers. More specifically it's because of the zealots not being able to compromise for other people's interpretations. Now, most people just ignore these types. But when you guys start fighting with each other because of it. And great people like Lex0r11 no less? Well, something needs to be said.

I don't care if this post makes you guys hate me. I have room in my interpretations for Indoctrination in the endings, nothing anyone says will change that and I most certainly don't need this thread to validate that. So I don't really care what anyone here thinks of me. This needed to be said.

So, as Riferno said. I'm going fucking martyr style. Hate me instead of each other. I don't care.

It's not zealotry to believe IT proven. It's a personal take on all the evidence. It's zealotry to spread it around and call others idiots for not seeing it though. We weren't hating on each other anymore, so there was no need to create the provocative post. 

It most certainly didn't need to be said.

[lex0r11]

BleedingUranium wrote...

byne wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

See you guys later.

I didnt mean to leave!

Leeeexxxxx!

[BleedingUranium]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

So people, what do we think of the refusal option?

I always liked the idea of having refuse be kind of like a back up way out for the hallucination. You can always pick it, so no one could argue there was no way out. Now, I'm just spurting out ideas, but you could have refuse depend enormously on war assets (much like PT) and possibly the help of certain characters to help you out of it and survive. Namely, Javik, Liara, Rachni Queen, Shiala, possibly even the geth - anyone with any kind of mind powers.

Refuse as a way out in IT is really only hampered by 2 things:
1. No breath scene, but as Restrider already pointed out, that would simply confirm IT. (Yes Rif I know.)
2. It wasn't in the base game. I like the idea that it was always going to be added for a reveal, but they added it early (in a nonfinished state) because of fan outcry.

How about the fact that there is exactly zero foreshadowing for refuse and tons and tons for destroy?

How about the fact that refuse flies right in the face of the game's theme that a good soldier doesn't abandon the mission?

Yeah, I don't think refuse will win you the game.

It spits in the face of the themes on the level that Control and Synthesis do.

[CoolioThane]

Steelcan wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Also, remember how Starbinger's original line was:

"... or do you think you can control us?"
That line was changed because it made it sound way too doubtful. IT was so obvious in the original ending.

. I admit I really bought into IT before the EC.

What was it about the EC that made you think IT was untrue?

A few things.  First and foremost BioWare, at least to me, didnt expand IT much with the EC, the EC seemed to be a full endorsemnet of the literal interpretation, and I'm sure you will all disagree with me.  It patched some of the more dream like qualities of the OE, like the squadmates being on the Normandy etc...

And the Normandy take off scene seemed to kill the idea of the Eden scene being a dream.  But again, I'm sure you all disagree.

Okay, I understand  We all basically were pretty let down by the EC indeed but just looked it over many times like we did with the vanilla game and found more discrepancies and stuff  Have you read much about what we think is weird in EC?

[BleedingUranium]

Steelcan wrote...

A few things.  First and foremost BioWare, at least to me, didnt expand IT much with the EC, the EC seemed to be a full endorsemnet of the literal interpretation, and I'm sure you will all disagree with me.  It patched some of the more dream like qualities of the OE, like the squadmates being on the Normandy etc...

And the Normandy take off scene seemed to kill the idea of the Eden scene being a dream.  But again, I'm sure you all disagree.

The dream ends at the breath scene, it did before EC, and everything added in EC was during the dream, so it changed nothing.

[Steelcan]

BleedingUranium wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

How about the fact that there is exactly zero foreshadowing for refuse and tons and tons for destroy?

How about the fact that refuse flies right in the face of the game's theme that a good soldier doesn't abandon the mission?

Yeah, I don't think refuse will win you the game.

It spits in the face of the themes on the level that Control and Synthesis do.

Synthesis may be thematically inconsistent with its presentation, but the message behind it is "Sacrfice yourself for the good of the galaxy ala Mordin/Legion"

And Control was always present, but it was thought to be impossible

[BleedingUranium]

masster blaster wrote...
SO Blurr is one, Banshee is on, Thane is one, I am one. Thanks<_<

Banshee is not, Doomsday is, by Jade's standards.

[BleedingUranium]

Rifneno wrote...

And am I the only one who expected Kahlee Sanders to wind up as more than a side note in an optional mission?  They built her up for 3 books (and whatever the hell Deception was), I was really expecting her to have a major role in the game's storyline.

I'll bet that she'll reunite with Anderson when this is all over, but maybe only in the absolute best possible outcome.

[demersel]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

So, as Riferno said. I'm going fucking martyr style. Hate me instead of each other. I don't care.

A sadist and a masochist share a prison cell. 
Masochist - COME ON! HURT ME!!! TORTURE ME!!! HIT ME!!!! CUT ME!!! BITE ME!!! 
Sadist - No. 

[Rifneno]

You also have to remember what EC was. An appeasement to a fanbase that was doing the online equivalent of a riot. When the BBC does a story about the fan outrage of your ending, this is something you need to address. Whether you want to or not. EC was never intended to be by BW. It's actually pretty likely that EA told them to do it whether they like it or not because the fans are too busy burning effigies to buy stuff.

[Steelcan]

CoolioThane wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
A few things.  First and foremost BioWare, at least to me, didnt expand IT much with the EC, the EC seemed to be a full endorsemnet of the literal interpretation, and I'm sure you will all disagree with me.  It patched some of the more dream like qualities of the OE, like the squadmates being on the Normandy etc...

And the Normandy take off scene seemed to kill the idea of the Eden scene being a dream.  But again, I'm sure you all disagree.

Okay, I understand  We all basically were pretty let down by the EC indeed but just looked it over many times like we did with the vanilla game and found more discrepancies and stuff  Have you read much about what we think is weird in EC?

. I was around the It group when the EC came out, but I left shortly after.  So no.  I don't have that list.

[CoolioThane]

Steelcan wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

How about the fact that there is exactly zero foreshadowing for refuse and tons and tons for destroy?

How about the fact that refuse flies right in the face of the game's theme that a good soldier doesn't abandon the mission?

Yeah, I don't think refuse will win you the game.

It spits in the face of the themes on the level that Control and Synthesis do.

Synthesis may be thematically inconsistent with its presentation, but the message behind it is "Sacrfice yourself for the good of the galaxy ala Mordin/Legion"

And Control was always present, but it was thought to be impossible

Casey and Mac state in their notes that Destroy was the "Sacrifice self" for the good of the galaxy

I'd say Synthesis is more like a goof of Galactic proportions 

2 minutes previous we killed a guy or convinced a guy to kill himself because he wanted to control them <_<