demersel wrote...
Jade8aby88 wrote...
So, as Riferno said. I'm going fucking martyr style. Hate me instead of each other. I don't care.
A sadist and a masochist share a prison cell.
Masochist - COME ON! HURT ME!!! TORTURE ME!!! HIT ME!!!! CUT ME!!! BITE ME!!!
Sadist - No.
It always seemed to me that the breath scene was just an Easter Egg.BleedingUranium wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
A few things. First and foremost BioWare, at least to me, didnt expand IT much with the EC, the EC seemed to be a full endorsemnet of the literal interpretation, and I'm sure you will all disagree with me. It patched some of the more dream like qualities of the OE, like the squadmates being on the Normandy etc...
And the Normandy take off scene seemed to kill the idea of the Eden scene being a dream. But again, I'm sure you all disagree.
The dream ends at the breath scene, it did before EC, and everything added in EC was during the dream, so it changed nothing.
Steelcan wrote...
Synthesis may be thematically inconsistent with its presentation, but the message behind it is "Sacrfice yourself for the good of the galaxy ala Mordin/Legion"BleedingUranium wrote...
DoomsdayDevice wrote...
How about the fact that there is exactly zero foreshadowing for refuse and tons and tons for destroy?
How about the fact that refuse flies right in the face of the game's theme that a good soldier doesn't abandon the mission?
Yeah, I don't think refuse will win you the game.
It spits in the face of the themes on the level that Control and Synthesis do.
And Control was always present, but it was thought to be impossible
Steelcan wrote...
And the Normandy take off scene seemed to kill the idea of the Eden scene being a dream. But again, I'm sure you all disagree.
Jade8aby88 wrote...
I'm just glad Byne isn't one of you. Or the OP title would have been changed to "The ending *was* a hallucination - Indoctrination theory Mark III."
Jade8aby88 wrote...
I'm just glad Byne isn't one of you. Or the OP title would have been changed to "The ending *was* a hallucination - Indoctrination theory Mark III."
. I've made my views on Control clear. Let it just suffice to say that I wanted an option to side with TIM, before he became "lol indoctrinated"CoolioThane wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Synthesis may be thematically inconsistent with its presentation, but the message behind it is "Sacrfice yourself for the good of the galaxy ala Mordin/Legion"
And Control was always present, but it was thought to be impossible
Casey and Mac state in their notes that Destroy was the "Sacrifice self" for the good of the galaxy
I'd say Synthesis is more like a goof of Galactic proportions
2 minutes previous we killed a guy or convinced a guy to kill himself because he wanted to control them <_<
Jade8aby88 wrote...
I'm just glad Byne isn't one of you. Or the OP title would have been changed to "The ending *was* a hallucination - Indoctrination theory Mark III."
Modifié par Bill Casey, 04 janvier 2013 - 05:09 .
Jade8aby88 wrote...
I'm just glad Byne isn't one of you. Or the OP title would have been changed to "The ending *was* a hallucination - Indoctrination theory Mark III."
demersel wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
And the Normandy take off scene seemed to kill the idea of the Eden scene being a dream. But again, I'm sure you all disagree.
Whoa!! Hold right there, pretty fellow...
The only issue I have with you using LotR is that Control was shown to be possible at Sanctuary, even if on a very very small scale.BleedingUranium wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Synthesis may be thematically inconsistent with its presentation, but the message behind it is "Sacrfice yourself for the good of the galaxy ala Mordin/Legion"
And Control was always present, but it was thought to be impossible
You missed the theme part. Control is like trying to control the One Ring, and Synthesis is all of Sauron's forces. The Uruk-Hai are literally synthesis.
Modifié par Steelcan, 04 janvier 2013 - 05:07 .
Steelcan wrote...
. I've made my views on Control clear. Let it just suffice to say that I wanted an option to side with TIM, before he became "lol indoctrinated"CoolioThane wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Synthesis may be thematically inconsistent with its presentation, but the message behind it is "Sacrfice yourself for the good of the galaxy ala Mordin/Legion"
And Control was always present, but it was thought to be impossible
Casey and Mac state in their notes that Destroy was the "Sacrifice self" for the good of the galaxy
I'd say Synthesis is more like a goof of Galactic proportions
2 minutes previous we killed a guy or convinced a guy to kill himself because he wanted to control them <_<
MB, she didn't mean people who "believe IT" she meant people who are like: "OMG IT is true and you're all blind" etc. There aren't many of them, but still.masster blaster wrote...
Jade8aby88 wrote...
draconian139 wrote...
Not this again, I think we beat it to death earlier. Those that prefer refuse(like me) and those that are against aren't going to change their minds as there's no new arguments that I know of.Jade8aby88 wrote...
So people, what do we think of the refusal option?
I'm just saying, maybe it's better for all these guys to start hating on something together, outside of the thread, instead of each other.
Fact is, anyone who says that Indoctrination is a fact or that IT has been "proven" is a zealot.
And it's these kinds of people that detract others from embracing the IT. So it's ultimately counter-productive to your cause. I mean it, go and ask on the boards. Most people don't hate the idea of IT, they hate the ITers. More specifically it's because of the zealots not being able to compromise for other people's interpretations. Now, most people just ignore these types. But when you guys start fighting with each other because of it. And great people like Lex0r11 no less? Well, something needs to be said.
I don't care if this post makes you guys hate me. I have room in my interpretations for Indoctrination in the endings, nothing anyone says will change that and I most certainly don't need this thread to validate that. So I don't really care what anyone here thinks of me. This needed to be said.
So, as Riferno said. I'm going fucking martyr style. Hate me instead of each other. I don't care.
SO Blurr is one, Banshee is on, Thane is one, I am one. Thanks
BleedingUranium wrote...
DoomsdayDevice wrote...
BansheeOwnage wrote...
Jade8aby88 wrote...
So people, what do we think of the refusal option?
I always liked the idea of having refuse be kind of like a back up way out for the hallucination. You can always pick it, so no one could argue there was no way out. Now, I'm just spurting out ideas, but you could have refuse depend enormously on war assets (much like PT) and possibly the help of certain characters to help you out of it and survive. Namely, Javik, Liara, Rachni Queen, Shiala, possibly even the geth - anyone with any kind of mind powers.
Refuse as a way out in IT is really only hampered by 2 things:
1. No breath scene, but as Restrider already pointed out, that would simply confirm IT. (Yes Rif I know.)
2. It wasn't in the base game. I like the idea that it was always going to be added for a reveal, but they added it early (in a nonfinished state) because of fan outcry.
How about the fact that there is exactly zero foreshadowing for refuse and tons and tons for destroy?
How about the fact that refuse flies right in the face of the game's theme that a good soldier doesn't abandon the mission?
Yeah, I don't think refuse will win you the game.
It spits in the face of the themes on the level that Control and Synthesis do.
Modifié par draconian139, 04 janvier 2013 - 05:10 .
CoolioThane wrote...
Jade8aby88 wrote...
draconian139 wrote...
Not this again, I think we beat it to death earlier. Those that prefer refuse(like me) and those that are against aren't going to change their minds as there's no new arguments that I know of.Jade8aby88 wrote...
So people, what do we think of the refusal option?
I'm just saying, maybe it's better for all these guys to start hating on something together, outside of the thread, instead of each other.
Fact is, anyone who says that Indoctrination is a fact or that IT has been "proven" is a zealot.
And it's these kinds of people that detract others from embracing the IT. So it's ultimately counter-productive to your cause. I mean it, go and ask on the boards. Most people don't hate the idea of IT, they hate the ITers. More specifically it's because of the zealots not being able to compromise for other people's interpretations. Now, most people just ignore these types. But when you guys start fighting with each other because of it. And great people like Lex0r11 no less? Well, something needs to be said.
I don't care if this post makes you guys hate me. I have room in my interpretations for Indoctrination in the endings, nothing anyone says will change that and I most certainly don't need this thread to validate that. So I don't really care what anyone here thinks of me. This needed to be said.
So, as Riferno said. I'm going fucking martyr style. Hate me instead of each other. I don't care.
It's not zealotry to believe IT proven. It's a personal take on all the evidence. It's zealotry to spread it around and call others idiots for not seeing it though. We weren't hating on each other anymore, so there was no need to create the provocative post.
It most certainly didn't need to be said.
Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 04 janvier 2013 - 05:09 .
Bill Casey wrote...
The EC was designed specifically to kill the theories that the universe blew up and everyone starved to death...
It was also designed to neither confirm nor deny IT...
Steelcan wrote...
I've made my views on Control clear. Let it just suffice to say that I wanted an option to side with TIM, before he became "lol indoctrinated"
He opposed the reapers in ME2 and in parts of ME3. And he can be convinced to kill himself, that alone proves some part of his mind is still his.BleedingUranium wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
. I've made my views on Control clear. Let it just suffice to say that I wanted an option to side with TIM, before he became "lol indoctrinated"
That's not a thing, he's been indoctrinated for decades. There's no Illusive Man without indoctrination, that was Jack Harper, and he's long gone.
BleedingUranium wrote...
Bill Casey wrote...
The EC was designed specifically to kill the theories that the universe blew up and everyone starved to death...
It was also designed to neither confirm nor deny IT...
That and showing how your squadmates got on the Normandy were the only issues addressed by the EC. All the stuff that they didn't expect people to ask about.
CoolioThane wrote...
Tolkien's orcs themselves were said to have been a hybrid of corrupted elves and men...making the Uruk-Hai like...triple or quadruple Hybrids. :sickface:
On the sliding scale of Anti-heroes. Can't link the page, but its on TVtropes. My Shepard is a good 4.Humakt83 wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
I've made my views on Control clear. Let it just suffice to say that I wanted an option to side with TIM, before he became "lol indoctrinated"
You could do that in Mass Effect 2. It was shown already there that TIM's actions were questionable (aside from the whole terrorist organization thing).
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