80611 réponses à ce sujet

[demersel]

umadcommander wrote...

demersel wrote...

Ok, the next quastion.

Let's make a thought experiment.
Let's say Shepard pickes control, Becomes the mind of the reaper made out of all the humans and the current cycle get's wiped out.

Is Shepard the Reaper in Control is the same person as Shepard?

no, the player will never control reapershep, and shepard is the player

Indeed. But what matters more will Reaper Shepard still have all of the Shepard's memories? Will he care about them? Will he have any of the Shepard's morals and qualities? 

[draconian139]

No, for one thing if this is what happened with all the other Reapers there's no way they'd want to have what was done to their cycle perpetuated repeatedly. At the very least Shepard's compassion will be all but removed.

[Fur28]

Damn you CT, now i cant stop playing the avengers game

Modifié par Fur28, 05 janvier 2013 - 01:35 .

[demersel]

draconian139 wrote...

No, for one thing if this is what happened with all the other Reapers there's no way they'd want to have what was done to their cycle perpetuated repeatedly. At the very least Shepard's compassion will be all but removed.

Indeed. I agree. Ok, hold that thought. 

So What is a reaper? Is it an AI like EDI or is it more like a Geth consensus - where all the people who go into making it become programs and processors or is it more of a combination of Both?

And another thing -
We know that although they are all independent - they all have a single point of view on how to go about things, and how the things should be. So we can give it a name - like Reaper Morals, or Reaper Mentality, Or Reaper's Mindset. Agreed? 

[Norlond]

Shep: "The man I used to be..."
That answers that question, at least for me, never really looked into control though...

[umadcommander]

demersel wrote...

umadcommander wrote...

demersel wrote...

Ok, the next quastion.

Let's make a thought experiment.
Let's say Shepard pickes control, Becomes the mind of the reaper made out of all the humans and the current cycle get's wiped out.

Is Shepard the Reaper in Control is the same person as Shepard?

no, the player will never control reapershep, and shepard is the player

Indeed. But what matters more will Reaper Shepard still have all of the Shepard's memories? Will he care about them? Will he have any of the Shepard's morals and qualities? 

The shepard in control seems to me as if it was just shepard and the catalyst rolled into one being meaning while it may have shepards morals and memories, eventually it may conclude that the cycles are the only way

[draconian139]

I think its safe to say that either its a combination of the two or they're separate AIs, each Reaper does seem to have its own personality. Its hard to tell which of the two is actually the case with the limited information we're presented with.

I agree that they all possess the same opinion on what must be done and the reasons it must be done, call this what you like. I see this arising due to a sort of high level indoctrination during the creation of the Reaper.

[Bill Casey]

demersel wrote...

So What is a reaper?

Liquified people poured into giant robot zombie cthulhu...

[draconian139]

umadcommander wrote...

demersel wrote...

umadcommander wrote...

demersel wrote...

Ok, the next quastion.

Let's make a thought experiment.
Let's say Shepard pickes control, Becomes the mind of the reaper made out of all the humans and the current cycle get's wiped out.

Is Shepard the Reaper in Control is the same person as Shepard?

no, the player will never control reapershep, and shepard is the player

Indeed. But what matters more will Reaper Shepard still have all of the Shepard's memories? Will he care about them? Will he have any of the Shepard's morals and qualities? 

The shepard in control seems to me as if it was just shepard and the catalyst rolled into one being meaning while it may have shepards morals and memories, eventually it may conclude that the cycles are the only way

Unless I misinterpret what Dem is doing we're not analyzing what occurs in the EC for control.  We're instead analyzing what might occur in Control in IT.

[demersel]

Bill Casey wrote...

demersel wrote...

So What is a reaper?

Liquified people poured into giant robot zombie cthulhu...

Yep, Pretty much summs it up. But how does it operate? Are all these liquified people needed for thought processes or the reapers just like to get fancy with their alloys? 

[demersel]

draconian139 wrote...

Unless I misinterpret what Dem is doing we're not analyzing what occurs in the EC for control.  We're instead analyzing what might occur in Control in IT.

no, not that. We're doing something much more beautifull. 
Control ending just gives us some information for reference. 

[CoolioThane]

Fur28 wrote...

Damn you CT, now i cant stop playing the avengers game

I'm sorry man, it's so addictive 

I'm saving up for Spidey and of course Deadpool. I need 235 CP and I've got 91...long way to go yet :happy:

[Bill Casey]

demersel wrote...

Yep, Pretty much summs it up. But how
does it operate? Are all these liquified people needed for thought
processes or the reapers just like to get fancy with their alloys?

Legion suggests the Reaper's mind is organic...
It's a giant genetically engineered brainwashed brain made of liquid genocide...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 05 janvier 2013 - 01:51 .

[Natabre]

Norlond wrote...

Shep: "The man I used to be..."
That answers that question, at least for me, never really looked into control though...

That's what scares the **** out of me, that Shepard's no longer there to control the reapers. Sure, his whole idea of preserving peace in galaxy is there for reapers to follow, but who are we to say that it'll last forever? That an enemy might influence the reapers to do evil deeds?  I don't know how that can be achieved without using crucible to communicate with reapers, but yeah...

Modifié par Natabre, 05 janvier 2013 - 01:50 .

[Bill Casey]

The EC killed control when it showed Shepard didn't fly the reapers into the sun, and actually gives a lengthy speech on the merits of using the reapers...

Who need I remind you are zillions of brainwashed zombies, and it's really ****ing unethical to use them like that, appointing yourself sovereign of the universe...
And the soundtrack agrees with me, apparently...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 05 janvier 2013 - 01:57 .

[umadcommander]

draconian139 wrote...

umadcommander wrote...

demersel wrote...

umadcommander wrote...

demersel wrote...

Ok, the next quastion.

Let's make a thought experiment.
Let's say Shepard pickes control, Becomes the mind of the reaper made out of all the humans and the current cycle get's wiped out.

Is Shepard the Reaper in Control is the same person as Shepard?

no, the player will never control reapershep, and shepard is the player

Indeed. But what matters more will Reaper Shepard still have all of the Shepard's memories? Will he care about them? Will he have any of the Shepard's morals and qualities? 

The shepard in control seems to me as if it was just shepard and the catalyst rolled into one being meaning while it may have shepards morals and memories, eventually it may conclude that the cycles are the only way

Unless I misinterpret what Dem is doing we're not analyzing what occurs in the EC for control.  We're instead analyzing what might occur in Control in IT.

ah i see well then here is my view on all the endings

Destroy-You actively resist it, you will still show the symptoms of it like voices that are more frequent now and hallucinations but you are still the same person at least for now

Control-Mid ground-The indoctrination is spreading more rapidly through your system due to your acceptance of one part of the reapers methods, same symptoms as above with illusive man style eyes

Synthesis-Almost full indoctrination, because of shepards will you are still in control of yourself but due to accepting the reapers motives in your head you are now right on the edge, same symptoms as the 2 above but you can see your cybernetic implants beneath your skin like in renegade but they glow blue

Refuse-Harbinger loses patience with shepard and fries his brain, killing him

Control could lead you to having to shoot yourself through a paragon interrupt to prevent you turning on your squad and killing them at the end, this would not be available in synthesis

[demersel]

Bill Casey wrote...

demersel wrote...

Yep, Pretty much summs it up. But how
does it operate? Are all these liquified people needed for thought
processes or the reapers just like to get fancy with their alloys?

Legion suggests the Reaper's mind is organic...
It's a giant genetically engineered brainwashed brain made of liquid genocide...

Indeed. But, happens to it, when it gets damaged? Does it loose part of its processingf powers? After all, we ddid need all those people to get liqified to build a thing. What happens if the number of the people gets reduced by a physical damage? 

[Norlond]

Natabre wrote...

Norlond wrote...

Shep: "The man I used to be..."
That answers that question, at least for me, never really looked into control though...

That's what scares the **** out of me, that Shepard's no longer there to control the reapers. Sure, his whole idea of preserving peace in galaxy is there for reapers to follow, but who are we to say that it'll last forever? That an enemy might influence the reapers to do evil deeds?  I don't know how that can be achieved without using crucible to communicate with reapers, but yeah...

We don't need the crucible to influence Reaper actions, yagh might threaten the galaxy, forcing Shepalyst to make some harsh decisions, and just like that, the control-utopia is gone
And now think of a ReneShep picking control, we'd be screwed to hell!

side note: we are actually discussing something! I'm so happy!
200x200http://www.gamesaktuell.de/screenshots/970x546/2012/05/Trollfaces-Kompendium_-_Cuteness_Overload.png[/img]

[Fur28]

CoolioThane wrote...

Fur28 wrote...

Damn you CT, now i cant stop playing the avengers game

I'm sorry man, it's so addictive 

I'm saving up for Spidey and of course Deadpool. I need 235 CP and I've got 91...long way to go yet :happy:

yep only got 4CP
Is there any other way to get SP aside from facebook friends?

Modifié par Fur28, 05 janvier 2013 - 02:00 .

[draconian139]

Norlond wrote...
We don't need the crucible to influence Reaper actions, yagh might threaten the galaxy, forcing Shepalyst to make some harsh decisions, and just like that, the control-utopia is gone
And now think of a ReneShep picking control, we'd be screwed to hell!

I keep hoping that if a post-ending DLC isn't forthcoming they'll make this canon and go with it.  Its such an interesting setting for future games imo.

[CmdrShep80]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

acended phoenix wrote...

Just wanted to post an idea that just hit me that i have not seen posted before.

If we assume that everything after the transport crash before the beam is an illusion created by harbinger, and also assume that Shepard's crew were not really evacuated( seeing as they were not there to begin with, it being an illusion and all) ; Shepard shoots 3 husks and 1 marauder. we know that indoctrination makes us believe that the reapers are good but what if in the case of Shepard they tried something different? what if your friends and loved ones are trying to stop you from entering the beam and in your current state you are seeing them as reaper forces? for instance the 3 husks could be the 2 squad mates you chose to bring with you plus your love interest. and the marauder could be Anderson. what do you guys think? am i crazy? or is this plausible?

There's no way to tell. It would be extremely cruel on Bioware's part. 

have you ever stood there and let them rush you?  I did. They rushed me the.n stood there and hit me on e and for Ed a critical mission failure. We're meant to kill our friend husks. We don't have a choice. If they really our our friends then well we've done bad cause its either that or critical mission failure. It's like the pre-ex refuse was a critical mission failure forcing us to choose between 3 choices

[Norlond]

draconian139 wrote...

Norlond wrote...
We don't need the crucible to influence Reaper actions, yagh might threaten the galaxy, forcing Shepalyst to make some harsh decisions, and just like that, the control-utopia is gone
And now think of a ReneShep picking control, we'd be screwed to hell!

I keep hoping that if a post-ending DLC isn't forthcoming they'll make this canon and go with it.  Its such an interesting setting for future games imo.

To be honest, I don't know, part of me is done with the Reaper plot and wants to move on to discover something new, other part of me wants to battle reapers conventionally (however impossible that may be, at least go out in a blaze of glory with Shepalysts maniacal laughter in the background)

My wish for literal-canon ending would still be destroy though, imo there's more potential for inter-racial conflicts and such, I want to experience that!

scientific side note: German scientists in Munich and Garching created a gas with negative Kelvin temperature by reversing the Boltzmann distribution

Modifié par Norlond, 05 janvier 2013 - 02:13 .

[draconian139]

CmdrShep80 wrote...


have you ever stood there and let them rush you?  I did. They rushed me the.n stood there and hit me on e and for Ed a critical mission failure. We're meant to kill our friend husks. We don't have a choice. If they really our our friends then well we've done bad cause its either that or critical mission failure. It's like the pre-ex refuse was a critical mission failure forcing us to choose between 3 choices

Something that I always found odd was that you could stand there in one spot all day and not get that critical mission failure but if you started moving around and exploring it'd pop up pretty quickly.

[umadcommander]

Norlond wrote...

draconian139 wrote...

Norlond wrote...
We don't need the crucible to influence Reaper actions, yagh might threaten the galaxy, forcing Shepalyst to make some harsh decisions, and just like that, the control-utopia is gone
And now think of a ReneShep picking control, we'd be screwed to hell!

I keep hoping that if a post-ending DLC isn't forthcoming they'll make this canon and go with it.  Its such an interesting setting for future games imo.

To be honest, I don't know, part of me is done with the Reaper plot and wants to move on to discover something new, other part of me wants to battle reapers conventionally (however impossible that may be, at least go out in a blaze of glory with Shepalysts maniacal laughter in the background)

My wish for literal-canon ending would still be destroy though, imo there's more potential for inter-racial conflicts and such, I want to experience that!

scientific side note: German scientists in Munich and Garching created a gas with negative Kelvin temperature by reversing the Boltzmann distribution

im not good with these things, does this mean real mass relays or better freezers:P
Edit: only my useless posts are ever top:(

Modifié par umadcommander, 05 janvier 2013 - 02:14 .

[Norlond]

umadcommander wrote...
im not good with these things, does this mean real mass relays or better freezers:P
Edit: only my useless posts are ever top:(

It gets my post on top too, so it's not useless

Check out this article, they explain it better than I could

edit: damn, it's 3.20am already, I think I'll call it a night, see you all later, and PLEASE keep discussing, I don't want any more people banned

Modifié par Norlond, 05 janvier 2013 - 02:19 .