80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

@LDS Hmm. It could be a destroyer, but it's red. I don't know.

Destroyer from ME2:
*snip*

From Geth Consensus:

*snip*
They look awfully similar. You can't see the ME2 antennae due to camera angle.

You're probably right.

I'm actually probably right about something? It's been a while, at least since 2012.

[CoolioThane]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

I'm still awake. Sigh. Got to leave before 9 so doubt there's any point in me sleeping

It's just after 6 there? Can you sleep while travelling?

Yeah, gotta pack as well  I could try but I've never been good at that

Where are you going, if you don't mind me asking?

Edit: Top

Moving back to university. Only about a 5 hour drive so shouldn't be too hectic 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

CoolioThane wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

I'm still awake. Sigh. Got to leave before 9 so doubt there's any point in me sleeping

It's just after 6 there? Can you sleep while travelling?

Yeah, gotta pack as well  I could try but I've never been good at that

Where are you going, if you don't mind me asking?

Edit: Top

Moving back to university. Only about a 5 hour drive so shouldn't be too hectic 

Oh, well have fun.

[BansheeOwnage]

CoolioThane wrote...

Moving back to university. Only about a 5 hour drive so shouldn't be too hectic 

Well if you're driving, you probably shouldn't sleep on the way.

[401 Kill]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

401 Kill wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Playing Cards!

Did somebody say Rannoch?

You're very much correct.

Cool!

BTW, EC soundtrack is available for free on the BSN to account members and I must say, putting An End Once and For All on my iPod was a stroke of genius. Now I can listen to it all the time! Even when I go to sleep.

Speaking of which...

[BleedingUranium]

Steelcan wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Playing Rannoch!

Im about to go to Tuchunka

I'm about to do Garrus's loyalty mission, once I'm home. That's so much less awesome than those two

What will happen to Sidonis?

He'll live.  I'd kill Harkin if that was an option though.

BansheeOwnage wrote...

When you coming home?

Tomorrow? I think.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 06 janvier 2013 - 06:28 .

[BansheeOwnage]

BleedingUranium wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

When you coming home?

Tomorrow? I think.

Okay.

Goodnight 401. Don't dream of kids!

If you do, let us know! We will find all of the narrative proof that you had it coming!

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 06 janvier 2013 - 06:32 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

BansheeOwnage wrote...
Okay.

Goodnight 401. Don't dream of kids!

If you do, let us know! We will find all of the narrative proof that you had it coming!

That or my "Enter Other People's Dreams Machine"(patent pending) is finally working.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 06 janvier 2013 - 06:40 .

[BleedingUranium]

*shameless plug for my signature*

[Hanako Ikezawa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

*shameless plug for my signature*

So... many... links...

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 06 janvier 2013 - 06:47 .

[FirstBlood XL]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...
Okay.

Goodnight 401. Don't dream of kids!

If you do, let us know! We will find all of the narrative proof that you had it coming!

That or my "Enter Other People's Dreams Machine"(patent pending) is finally working.

Ahh, The Dream Machine --- the name of the arcade I used to play Afterburner, TMNT and MKII at as a kid. 

[BansheeOwnage]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

*shameless plug for my signature*

So... many... people...

I KNOW! I listened to all of them! I know there are more.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

*shameless plug for my signature*

So... many... people...

I KNOW! I listened to all of them! I know there are more.

"There are billions of people I can draw evidence from." - Father imitating Blur.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 06 janvier 2013 - 06:59 .

[Math Effect]

 Late to the party here, but I felt compelled to give my analysis after finishing the series recently. I apologize if anything I say has already been mentioned before.

I want to advocate a quasi-Indoctrination Theory that has the Middle Path as the best choice (note: I am going to call it Middle and not synthesis).  IT bugs me because http://www.gamefront...ation-theory/6/ So hear me out.

I was first inspired by this screenshot (http://img829.images...8/dreamreal.jpg) found in the original IT thread.  Compared to the previous indoctrination scenes with Anderson and TIM, it’s apparent that elements of Shepard’s actual surroundings, i.e. London, have now been incorporated into the hallucination.  My interpretation of these similarities is that Shepard is now actually in a semi-conscious state and the Shepard we see is his real, physical body; in other words, Shepard is on his feet, though still confused.  Note that Shepard’s appearance now is identical to his appearance right after Harbinger’s blast, and he even begins the Catalyst scene on all fours and not laying on the platform (recall that he fell after killing the 3 husks, but seemingly gets up).  Shepard was at his weakest both physically and mentally directly after Harbinger’s blast, but in the time it took to overcome the first indoctrination test, he’s regained some consciousness.  What Shepard now sees is a blending of reality and illusion as the Reapers continue their indoctrination.

So with that intro, we finally get to the main points of my argument: the various “choices” and the requirements to activate these choices.  As argued by IT, Shepard never left London, but I also don’t think we’re completely in Shepard’s head.  So what do they choices mean and/or represent?  I believe a few things are important.

First is the location of each choice.  In the hybrid-setting I’ve presented, Middle is the choice that leads to what is actually the Conduit, and the mission objective given to Shepard is to reach the Conduit.  As far as the player is concerned, reaching the Crucible = victory at this point, and if Shepard can get there, then the final mission is a success.  ME has always been a linear game once you enter a Mission Map where Shepard moves from one location, and this instance should be no different.  Any actual meaningful RPG decisions have always been made using the conversation wheel, and while the wheel pops up, no actual decision is made (unless you choose Reject).  In contrast, Control and Destroy are Sidepaths, present only to distract Shepard from the primary goal: reaching the Conduit.

Second, Middle only opens up with a high enough EMS score.  EMS = ME3, just like “Loyalty Missions” = ME2.  Thematically, EMS represents the Galactic Alliance, while the themes of ME2 and ME1 were the Crew and the Mystery, respectively.  Thus, a low EMS score indicates that Shepard’s military force is weak, probably much too weak to oppose the Reaper invasions.  Consequently, the only paths open are sidepaths: Control and/or Destroy, simply because the Alliance likely does not have the manpower to protect the Crucible long enough for Shepard to open the Citadel arms, in which case reaching the Conduit accomplishes nothing.  But if Shepard has enough allies, only then can enough time be bought for Shepard to reach the Conduit; only then does Middle become available and true victory become achievable.  All game we’ve been told to unite the races or face defeat, so at the end of the day, it’s hard to believe that victory is achievable without building alliances.

Middle also fits best with the themes of ME3 in that symbolically, Synthesis is the most cooperative.  Control is rejected because we’ve fought against the idea all game.  Destroy is hard to argue against because we’ve been trying to destroy the Reapers (and with some success) for three games.  But when the player is given a choice, Paragon Shepard never chooses destruction.  Genophage cure, Geth Heretics, Reaper Code, Rachni… the list goes on.  With that said, IT is correct in that Synthesis also closely resembles the Reapers’ actual goals.  But while Control and Synthesis may be considered accepting Reaper indoctrination, Destroy also simply proves the Reapers’ points; even when presented with other options, organics choose conflict with synthetics.

So what about the Breathing scene?  To answer that, I look at the three choices symbolically again.  If Synthesis is completing the mission by reaching the Conduit, then by default, Control and Destroy are detours away from the Conduit.  Control is the worst, because it means Shepard’s giving up his own ideals and succumbing to TIM’s influence.  Fittingly, there literally is nothing to the right of the Conduit; control does not exist.  That leaves Destroy, for which I have two theories.  The weaker one is that Destroy is falling for Reaper tricks (much like Control is a Reaper trick).  Whoever heard of activating a device by shooting it until it explodes?  No, what Shepard’s shooting at is the Conduit itself.  Alternatively, remember what exactly was parked to the left of the Conduit blasting at Hammer Team moments before?  That’s right, Harbinger, and no, he did not weirdly fly off.  Destroy means forgoing the mission and choosing to shoot at Harbinger, to destroy THE Reaper.  In most situations, Shepard probably dies.  But with a high EMS, Shepard survives the encounter; it doesn’t matter how.  The mission was unsuccessful, but Shepard is alive.  There is still hope.

In summary, the Control, Destroy, and Synthesis choices exist only metaphorically, though the CatalystBoy’s words ought not be trusted.  Synthesis (Middle Path) best represents the game’s primary objective of unifying the galaxy.  Ultimately, Shepard’s final mission is to reach the Conduit and doing so saves the galaxy from annihilation.


I look forward to defending my arguments and maybe even building on them!

Edit: Informed that a chunk of my spam is similar to the Waking Nightmare Theory!  Flattery by imitation I guess :S

Modifié par Math Effect, 06 janvier 2013 - 10:46 .

[BansheeOwnage]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

*shameless plug for my signature*

So... many... people...

I KNOW! I listened to all of them! I know there are more.

"There are billions of people I can draw evidence from." - Father imitating Blur.

Lol.

[BansheeOwnage]

Math Effect wrote...

I look forward to defending my arguments and maybe even building on them!

I would answer more in-depth but I have to go. Unfortunately not too many people are on right now

One problem I have: If it's an indoctrination atemp, why would the Child advocate synthesis? That seems counterproductive to your theory.

Funny name by the way.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 06 janvier 2013 - 07:13 .

[CoolioThane]

Synthesis is the choice that ties into the themes of the series?

Could you expand your reasoning because I'm not sure I follow how?!

[Hanako Ikezawa]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...
*shameless plug for my signature*

So... many... people...

I KNOW! I listened to all of them! I know there are more.

"There are billions of people I can draw evidence from." - Father imitating Blur.

Lol.

Thanks. Reading "there are more" in your post while listening to the show's ost made me instantly place the next line he said after. And simply swapping humans and energy with people and evidence, it fit too well not to post.

Edit: speaking of the ost, it just ended and I promised myself I'd go to sleep when it did. Goodnight everybody.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 06 janvier 2013 - 07:23 .

[Math Effect]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Math Effect wrote...

I look forward to defending my arguments and maybe even building on them!

I would answer more in-depth but I have to go. Unfortunately not too many people are on right now

One problem I have: If it's an indoctrination atemp, why would the Child advocate synthesis? That seems counterproductive to your theory.

Funny name by the way.

My opinion is that the Child is a construct of both Indoctrination and Shepard's thoughts, and therefore what he says cannot be trusted.  I make a point to analyze what the Child says anyways, but my primary message (hence why it is my concluding sentence) is that the ideal path is choosing the path that leads to the Conduit to complete Shepard's final mission.  All else is secondary.

CoolioThane wrote...

Synthesis is the choice that ties into the themes of the series?

Could you expand your reasoning because I'm not sure I follow how?!

Setting aside the techno-babble gene-rapingness of literal Synthesis, which it is and I have no argument against (and hence why I'm not a literalist).

In the context of ME3, Synthesis represents the unification of the galaxy and greater understanding of each other without sacrificing any other Races.  The entire theme of ME3, from what I can tell, was trying to understand the perspectives of clashing Races (Turian/Salarian vs. Krogan, Geth vs. Rachni, Asari vs. Humility) and then overcoming them.  Only through getting the leaders of each race to understand each other could unity be achieved. Compare this idea to Control or Destroy.  Control represents TIM's wish to dominate the Galaxy using the Reapers.  Destroy represents the Reapers' claim that Organics and Synthetics will forever be in conflict.

In the context of IT, I believe all 3 options are inherently incorrect, so I reject its conclusion.  The cons for Control and Destroy have not changed, while Synthesize is now acceptance of being Harvested and turned into another Reaper.

Modifié par Math Effect, 06 janvier 2013 - 07:29 .

[Math Effect]

Now that I think about it, the paragraph about the symbolism of synthesis really isn't needed and doesn't contribute much to my thesis. I don't think it directly weakens my thesis, but it certainly detracts from it.

But I'm going to leave it there out of ego...because I think the paragraph has some okay ideas...

[BleedingUranium]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Math Effect wrote...

I look forward to defending my arguments and maybe even building on them!

I would answer more in-depth but I have to go. Unfortunately not too many people are on right now

One problem I have: If it's an indoctrination atemp, why would the Child advocate synthesis? That seems counterproductive to your theory.

Funny name by the way.

What you're talking about is similar to the Waking Nightmare Theory, which is exactly what it sounds like.

Focusing of the beam = final goal bit for a minute, that's actually a pretty good point. I think you're wrong, but I haven't seen something thought out like that in a while

There are two ways to see this: the first is what you said, the beam is the goal and therefore we should pick Synthesis, but on the other hand, if Synthesis is a trap (as per IT standard) then doesn't that suggest the real beam is a trap as well? Basically a giant mosquito light to lure everyone into.

As for the main problem you have with IT, that it doesn't finish the story, that is true, but the way I see it, it's no different than ME1 or 2's endings, they finish the plot at hand, but the overall plot of the series continues.

[BleedingUranium]

Math Effect wrote...

In the context of ME3, Synthesis represents the unification of the galaxy and greater understanding of each other without sacrificing any other Races.  The entire theme of ME3, from what I can tell, was trying to understand the perspectives of clashing Races (Turian/Salarian vs. Krogan, Geth vs. Rachni, Asari vs. Humility) and then overcoming them.  Only through getting the leaders of each race to understand each other could unity be achieved. Compare this idea to Control or Destroy.  Control represents TIM's wish to dominate the Galaxy using the Reapers.  Destroy represents the Reapers' claim that Organics and Synthetics will forever be in conflict.

For the first, I'm glad you get that, but the theme isn't to reject being different, but to embrace everyone's differences, and how it makes them stronger. Javik talks about how their cycle lost because they had no diversity, for example. A good example of what I mean is Wrex in ME2, it's under the "Destroy" section of my signature.

As for Destroy, it represents the opposite of that, because the kid says you shouldn't pick it because organics and synthetics will always fight (soon the chaos will come back), but by picking it anyway, you're rejecting that idea.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 06 janvier 2013 - 07:53 .

[Math Effect]

BleedingUranium wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Math Effect wrote...

I look forward to defending my arguments and maybe even building on them!

I would answer more in-depth but I have to go. Unfortunately not too many people are on right now

One problem I have: If it's an indoctrination atemp, why would the Child advocate synthesis? That seems counterproductive to your theory.

Funny name by the way.

What you're talking about is similar to the Waking Nightmare Theory, which is exactly what it sounds like.

Focusing of the beam = final goal bit for a minute, that's actually a pretty good point. I think you're wrong, but I haven't seen something thought out like that in a while

There are two ways to see this: the first is what you said, the beam is the goal and therefore we should pick Synthesis, but on the other hand, if Synthesis is a trap (as per IT standard) then doesn't that suggest the real beam is a trap as well? Basically a giant mosquito light to lure everyone into.

As for the main problem you have with IT, that it doesn't finish the story, that is true, but the way I see it, it's no different than ME1 or 2's endings, they finish the plot at hand, but the overall plot of the series continues.

If the Real Beam is a trap, then the Reapers win.  The Beam Blitz was the Alliance's best plan after all.   I suppose IT has picking Destroy as winning the Indoctrination Battle...but I already described my disagreement with that choice.

When you say the "plot at hand" are you referring to the IT idea that the whole plot of ME3 was the indoctrination of Shepard?

[dorktainian]

ah nice. synthesis. the choice of a reaper and you accept it? 'cough' indoctrinated 'cough'



edit.  top. 

Modifié par dorktainian, 06 janvier 2013 - 07:57 .

[byne]

Math Effect wrote...

If the Real Beam is a trap, then the Reapers win.  The Beam Blitz was the Alliance's best plan after all.   I suppose IT has picking Destroy as winning the Indoctrination Battle...but I already described my disagreement with that choice.

When you say the "plot at hand" are you referring to the IT idea that the whole plot of ME3 was the indoctrination of Shepard?

Its kind of sad that  Anderson's plan is barely distinguishable from Sarge's plan.