80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Skillz1986]

Still don't get you point. My point however is, that the best choice with high ems is destroy. And because the reapers know you'll have a good chance of defeating you if they let you hold on to your "destroy" mindset, they try to divert you. "heeee..hey shep..yeah listen, about that destroy thing, come on duuude don't be silly. Here are two alternate choices, and they are like...MUCH better than destroying us. Pick synthesis now and receive a few synthetic parts FOR FREE!"

got it?

[Skillz1986]

@master.
Maybe it was too obvious?

[BleedingUranium]

Skillz1986 wrote...

Still don't get you point. My point however is, that the best choice with high ems is destroy. And because the reapers know you'll have a good chance of defeating you if they let you hold on to your "destroy" mindset, they try to divert you. "heeee..hey shep..yeah listen, about that destroy thing, come on duuude don't be silly. Here are two alternate choices, and they are like...MUCH better than destroying us. Pick synthesis now and receive a few synthetic parts FOR FREE!"

got it?

Exactly


@MB
EC is nothing more than a collection of the fan rage of the forums, because that's all it addressed, and it did that to the letter.  A good example is the added Renegade lines Shepard has. All Paragon is the same as normal, while all Renegade is all of the "I don't like this choice" ones, and they're all the exact reasons the community didn't like those choices. Another good example is Refuse.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 06 janvier 2013 - 09:29 .

[Skillz1986]

I mean seriously, why would that change THAT in the EC? Tha makes no sense at all. Because all it did was to imply that 1. The child knows yoiur thoughts and 2. Destroy was YOUR choice and not an offering from the child

[BleedingUranium]

Skillz1986 wrote...

I mean seriously, why would that change THAT in the EC? Tha makes no sense at all. Because all it did was to imply that 1. The child knows yoiur thoughts and 2. Destroy was YOUR choice and not an offering from the child

And Control was something like "Or do you think you can control us?", which was the exact same thing again.

EC made IT far less obvious, but at the same time it didn't put a single hole in it. That probably took more effort than what the EC actually was

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 06 janvier 2013 - 09:34 .

[Skillz1986]

Funny things is, i never noticed the change from "i know yoi thought about" to "it is now in your ppwer"...shows how i stopped to even listen to what the child says anymore. And i'm not saying this to bash on the endings. I was pretty confused whe master told me they changed it in the EC

[masster blaster]

Why pick Destroy.
1. Anderson is showen picking Destroy. Should we not follow Anderson, Shepard's teach, and friend? Yes we should.
2. It's what everyone non Indoctrinated wants.
3. It's high time the Reapers die.
4. We set all those organics from the past cycles finally rest in peace.
5. We don't give the brat what he want's ( Synthesis).
6. Sacrficesess are bound to happen, hell we( Shepard) has sent hundreds if not thousands into their deaths.
7. Geth, and EDI would rather die than let the Reapers live/ would give their lives to protect the Organics.
8. The galaxy makes their own future. Maybe the cycle will start over, or maybe not. It all depends on how the next generation of children act/ do.
9. We ( Shepard) avenges all the people that have died in this was, as well has the past cycles.
10. Our ( Shepard's) squad mates had our ( Shepard's) back. They have told us what's right, and what's wrong. Sometimes they give good advice, and sometimes not, yet they all agree the Reapers need to die.
11. Is it Genocide no. It's a pure act of valor. If EDI, and the Geth over heard Shepard's talk with the Catalyst, then they would understand.
12. Why should we let the brat ( the leader of the Reapers) dictate what paths should we follow? He doesn't want Destroy, yet he would rather Shepard pick Control, and upon all Synthesis.
13. The Reapers had it coming when the brat ordered Harbinger to use the Collectors to kill Shepard, and blow up the Normandy. It's personal. 20 crew members dead, a ship gone, and one pissed off Shepard come back from the dead.

[Math Effect]

Skillz1986 wrote...

@ math effect

I have a few problems with your interpretation. And even though i get the core meaning (there is no real choice to be made...it's about staying determined to reach the beam) there are a few inconsistencies. As banshee already pointed out, the starchild would not advocate synthesis so much (which he does, according to him it is clearly the best choice) if it really menat that shepard would in reality reach the beam by accepting the beam in his semi conscient state.

Here's my take on it, along with a tie in with EMS

I assume you have destroyed the collector base in me2 (in my opinion how you deal wih the base in me 2 sets the foundation for how your shepard thinks)

Anyway: collector base destroyed= shepard believes he can fight the reapers without sacrificing his humanity in the process. He is determined not to use anything the reapers have to offer (technology/weaponry ec.), he's going to "fight and win without it", he's not going to "let fear compromise who i am" he's also determined to not taking s**t from from them.

Low ems:

As far as i remember, only destroy is available. This is the case, because this is what shepard was determined to do (destroyed collector base). The reapers know you are not going to win (low ems) and do not even bother to steer you away from that plan. For them you are just "dust struggling against cosmic winds". They let you hold on to the idea of fighting them. You' ll loose anyway.

The higher your EMS gets, the more concerned the reapers become.

Thus high EMS:

Shepard ist still determined to desrtroy the reapers so the destroy option is still available (note: the child never offered you this choice. He says this himself "i know YOU THOUGHT about destroying us). But because of you high EMS the reapers/child deems your chances of defeating them very high. It rries everything (compare the counter arguments of all choices..destroy is the worst thing you could do according to the child. You'd need to sacrifice a lot eg: the geht;edi. It's uncertain "the pewce won't last" and you yourself MIGHT die too "you yourself are partially synthetic")
to make you choose control or synthesis.

This is what indoctrinatio is about, planting an idea in it's victims head, to make him align with your doctrine. So how you choose during the sequence, will determine your mindset un future content. If you choose destroy you will still be determined to destroy the reapers once you come to your sense. Choose control, and you'll basically be TIM all over again. Choose synthesis and you'll come back with sarens mindset.
I hope i get my point across

You bring up a good point about how much danger Shepard poses the higher his EMS gets, and it's an idea I toyed with while I was writing up my blurb but ultimately rejected.

The literal consequences of your choice shouldn't matter to IT; according to IT, the choices only represent acceptance or rejection of indoctrination.  So at any EMS, IT says what matters is Shepard's internal struggle; winning or losing the war is irrelevant to Shepard's story.  But at the lowest EMS, you only get once choice: Control or Destroy; accept indoctrination or reject indoctrination.  Therein lies the problem.  This belief means a single decision Shepard made in ME2 has decided the entire outcome of ME3.  A Shepard who destroyed the Collector base will always reject Indoctrination and win the game.  A Shepard who saved the Collector base will always be Controlled and lose.  The pure injustice of these scenarios makes the literal interpretation more likely at low EMS.

In comparison, I have both Control and normal Destroy as losing the game, so you cannot win unless you try to increase your EMS to either get Synthesis or Destroy w/ the extra scene.

Modifié par Math Effect, 06 janvier 2013 - 09:45 .

[Skillz1986]

See this is the thing. You do not really choose to destroy them. You just choose to stay tro to your beliefs to destroy them (if collector base was destroyed). You do not let them change your mindset. I don't believe that neither edi or the geth will have to be sacrificed. As well as i do not believe anything he tells me about control or synthesis. It's just about picking an idea..a mindset with wich you will continue the game in future content (IF it will be confirmed and expanded upon)

[Math Effect]

Skillz1986 wrote...

See this is the thing. You do not really choose to destroy them. You just choose to stay tro to your beliefs to destroy them (if collector base was destroyed). You do not let them change your mindset. I don't believe that neither edi or the geth will have to be sacrificed. As well as i do not believe anything he tells me about control or synthesis. It's just about picking an idea..a mindset with wich you will continue the game in future content (IF it will be confirmed and expanded upon)

But at the lowest EMS you don't choose anything.  You either have an IT victory handed to you on a silver platter or you get the boogie prize.  All because of a decision you made in a different game.

[Skillz1986]

@ math effect
Missed the point. A shepard who destroyed the collector base in me 2 will neither reject indoctrination (since no other choice=indoctrination) is even offered...the reapers simply.do not bother You are not a threat with low ems..."wanna destroy us? Give it your best shot" nor will he always win. Since ems is too low.

[masster blaster]

Skill yes, but really when it comes down to it. It doesn't matter. IT, or Literal Destroy makes the most sense, and is by far the ending that is just right.

We kill them in Literal ending. Sure the prices was high, but so has been this war since the Reapers attacked the first ogranic, or Synthetic.

IT we haven't killed them yet, but we will either by the Crcubile, or some weapon in Rio. We still have to kill them, but yet all those things I said should make people pick Destroy.weather IT, Literal, or staying true.

[Skillz1986]

I do not know what your lowest ems was..but i had a playthrough in wich i intentionally messed up every single choice concerning ems..and as far as i remember..only destroy was available (collector base destroyed)

Did the same thing with collector base spared... And as far as i remember only control was an option, why? Because shepard is willing to use enemy tech and tacgics against them? He does not beleive in destroy..or in victory without the enemy's tech. Gather more ems and suddenly destroy also becomes available, why? Because shepard realizes that he managed to gather the whole galaxy behind him..he starts to believe that desttoying them conventionally might be possible

[Fur28]

masster blaster wrote...
IT we haven't killed them yet, but we will either by the Crcubile, or some weapon in Rio. We still have to kill them, but yet all those things I said should make people pick Destroy.weather IT, Literal, or staying true.

1. Did we learn anything else about the crucible aside that it shoot tons of energy or destruction(forgot phrase) 
2. Why a weapon on Rio?, whats on Rio?

[CoolioThane]

I'm on my way to Uni dadadadadada how's everyone?

I can't agree with synthesis being the right choice, sorry math! It's a decent theory though, and could well be right

[Math Effect]

Skillz1986 wrote...

@ math effect
Missed the point. A shepard who destroyed the collector base in me 2 will neither reject indoctrination (since no other choice=indoctrination) is even offered...the reapers simply.do not bother You are not a threat with low ems..."wanna destroy us? Give it your best shot" nor will he always win. Since ems is too low.

You just brought up a new point I never thought about that I'd like to discuss. I think you're saying low EMS automatically means indoctrination, even if your only choice is Destroy?

[Skillz1986]

No..actually i said. The reapers have evaluated you..and found you not worthy..low ems. You are no threat, there is no need to indoctrinate you. Go ahead and try to fight us..you will fail anyway.

[masster blaster]

Look since I started the EMS is Shepard's willpower , and the galactic readiness is Shepard's, let me explain.

Save the base, yet pick Destroy you will wake up, but you will struggle more along the way. Leading to an alternative ending .
Destroy the base, and pick Synthesis, or Control you will have no control over your Shepard,, untill the moment of truth. Unless you kept the base, then no you will not be able to break free for a bit long enough to put a bullet to your Shepard's head.

The high your ems.The more willpower your Shepard has. Thus the more willpower Shepard has, then the more the Reapers need to keep Shepard from waking up. Sure killing Shepard is easy, yet were is the fun in that. What better way to hurt Shepard is for him/her to kill everyone he/she has loved, destroy everything he/she fought for, and make Shepard feel the misery of " you could have saved them".

As for readiness. If your Shepard has 100% readiness, then your Shepard is ready to get back into the fight, however the blast from Harbingers beam was to great, so if you don't prepare the galaxy ( Shepard's body) there is a more likly chance that Shepard may not wake up, or fully recover.

[Math Effect]

Skillz1986 wrote...

No..actually i said. The reapers have evaluated you..and found you not worthy..low ems. You are no threat, there is no need to indoctrinate you. Go ahead and try to fight us..you will fail anyway.

Then at low EMS, there is no IT?  That's a very problematic statement I think.  IT would collapse if it was only applicable in certain situations (high EMS) and not others (low EMS).

I think you should just agree with my comment that at low EMS Shepard is automatically indoctrinated 

[Fur28]

 Hello i just made my first poll/thread about Harbinger Battle
Here social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/15496340/1, Please vote, if you want to

[masster blaster]

Math it's more like low ems Destroy. Reapers don't give a dam about Shepard, yet they know how Shepard is. If they just let him/her wake up, then it's going to bite them back in the metal ***. So they will give Shepard a final gift. Letting Shepard think that they are beaten, yet by the time the visions are done ( the EC slide show), then Shepard should be dead.

In low ems Control Shepard has not proven to the Reapers, that he/she is worthy to become a figure head of the new Reaper they are going to creat. So most likely they have Shepard become another Indoctrinated slave.

[Math Effect]

masster blaster wrote...

Math it's more like low ems Destroy. Reapers don't give a dam about Shepard, yet they know how Shepard is. If they just let him/her wake up, then it's going to bite them back in the metal ***. So they will give Shepard a final gift. Letting Shepard think that they are beaten, yet by the time the visions are done ( the EC slide show), then Shepard should be dead.

In low ems Control Shepard has not proven to the Reapers, that he/she is worthy to become a figure head of the new Reaper they are going to creat. So most likely they have Shepard become another Indoctrinated slave.

That's what I thought skillz was trying to say and it's something that would make a lot of sense.

However....

Skillz1986 wrote...

No..actually i said. The reapers have evaluated you..and found you not worthy..low ems. You are no threat, there is no need to indoctrinate you. Go ahead and try to fight us..you will fail anyway.

[Fur28]

masster blaster wrote...

Math it's more like low ems Destroy. Reapers don't give a dam about Shepard, yet they know how Shepard is. If they just let him/her wake up, then it's going to bite them back in the metal ***. So they will give Shepard a final gift. Letting Shepard think that they are beaten, yet by the time the visions are done ( the EC slide show), then Shepard should be dead.

In low ems Control Shepard has not proven to the Reapers, that he/she is worthy to become a figure head of the new Reaper they are going to creat. So most likely they have Shepard become another Indoctrinated slave.

So if they were to release an IT Expansion, do you think we would see someone applying Omnigel and waking shepard up, interrupting the visions(slideshow)

Wonder if they have tried the Crucible thing before, and everyone who failed in Control has become part of the reaper intelligence

[Skillz1986]

It's not problematic at all. It makes sense they will only indoctrinate you if you prove to be a threat...why else would they? You have not accomplished anything with low ems? Who are you to them? Just a very determined but failed soldier.

Try to see it this way: being taken up to the decision chamber is an evaluation of how much a threat you are..or how worthy you are.

Low ems: no threat at all..go ahead...and have your try..as all the other races had before..and fail, just like them. (collector base destroyed)
Shepard wakes up continues to figght and loses completely

Moderate ems: the reapers deem your chances moderate...they start to get worried and try to alter your mindset to control. "listen, i know you want to destroy us but it's rather silly don't you think?
Now you have a choice...stay true to what you came to do: shepard wakes up, continues the fight. Takes significant losses but manages to win in the end...but it's a pyrrhic victory.

Choose the reapers offer and believe in controling them. Shepard wakes up and is basically TIM;)

High ems: you are definitely a threat..you know it, and they know it. Controll may not be appealing eniugh +plus they could turn your massie forces for their gain. Synthesis. You will not loose anyone and everyone will get along. The only sacrifice you have to make is yourself.

Pick destroy: you fight..you take some insignificant (as cold as it sounds) losses and win

Control: see above+ a lot of people who will follow you

Synthesis: no freaking clu to be honest..i'm not a writer. In my opinion it would just mean you completely agree with the reapers..like saren..or kenson

Modifié par Skillz1986, 06 janvier 2013 - 10:30 .

[masster blaster]

Low ems Destroy. Shepard is not worthy to wake up. The Reaper brat is not worried about Destroy. Shepard's assets are ****** poor, as well as the galactic readiness. Shepard's willpower/ readiness is out the window. However Shepard has been a worthy foe in the past, so the Reaper Indoctrinating Shepard let's Shepard see what is going to happen based on his/her choice's he/she has made, and once the vison's ( the slide shows) are done Shepard should be dead.

Mid ems Destroy. Shepard has given the Reapers a run for their money, yet it's still not enough to wake up. The Reaper Indoctrinating Shepard ( Harbinger) is still in power, however Shepard is shown that he/she still has willpower left, so if you didn't save the base he offers control. It's so that Shepard can wilingly give up his/her mind to Harbinger. Then Harbinger shows Shepard visions of the future, and then Shepard dies.


High ems Destroy. Shepard is going head to toe with the Reapers. Almost ever best god dam soldier is at Earth, and the Reapers are taking looses. Shepard's willpower is very strong, as his his/her readiness. So Harbinger get's desperate. He put's Synthesis out there hoping Shepard gives up, and surrenders everything that he/she is to him ( Harbinger). However if Shepard picks Destroy Harbinger can only hope the visions slowly kill Shepard, yet if you have over the high ems for Destroy, then Shepard breakes free.


Now about Mid ems Control. Yes Destroy is the second choice that the brat tells you about, yet why second? Destroy should be first that comes into Shepard's mind no. Yet Control is first. The way I see it is that Control mid ems is having the brat explain that Shepard " can" control the Reapers, and no one will die, where as Destroy All synthetivs will die, and since this is mid Destroy people will die.
Which ending would you pick if you got the " good end", or the " bad end"?