80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Mystical Taurus]

Zan51 wrote...

Dunno if anyone has mentioned this, but came across this post from eddieoctane in reference to this thread - http://social.biowar...5019/1#13605358

eddieoctane wrote...
After synthesis, if the Catalyst still exists, then he needs to thank Jiminy Cricket for helping grant his wish
(after someone asked for clarification he said this:)
Pinocchio reference. If all organics are now part synthetic and vice versa, the catalyst is a real boy now, which is
what he wanted all along. Hence the prodding to take that route more than the other 2.

What do you guys think? Is there some motivation on the part of the Star brat VI to become "real" through synthesis?

Probably not.  EDI had nno problem taking over a robotic body not even origionally designed for her, built using only Cerberus level tech.  The Reapers are so much more advanced that they could easily create any form of body  the Catalyst could want, including a synthetic/organic hybrid.  And the Reapers show such disdain for organics that I doubt he cares much to understand us further, since we've been called vermin, bacteria, etc. etc. by them.

Modifié par Mystical Taurus, 10 août 2012 - 08:21 .

[Rosewind]

UltimateTobi wrote...

So, any major thing I've missed?

Tobi YAY!!

[Arian Dynas]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

There appears to be the usual circular logic of 'It must be bad writing cos Bioware are bad writers. I know they're bad writers because of the ending.' Always annoys me.

There is nothing circular about that. If a writer is bad, his writing is going to be bad. A bad writer can be recognized by his bad writing. There is nothing circular about that.

Really?!? <_< WTF? If you are trying to make a logical point don't troll. If you aren't trying to make points and are intentionally trolling then I will ask you nicely to leave. 

Oh. So by that logic, since Hitler loved dogs, and Hitler was an evil person, all dogs are evil?

Wait who's logic. Mine or his?  If it's mine, I just noticed some grammar errors. Fixed in bold. 

His.

Your analogy fails and is retarded. Try again.

And I'm not trolling. I am making a logical point. The writing in ME3 is bad. That must mean ME3's writers are either bad or they just had a bad day or something when they wrote ME3. You choose.

Wah wah wah! You're retarded! *pout*

Am I doing it right? I'm trying to be as accurate to the way you're acting as I can be.

As someone who, you know, actually has taken an actual logic class within the last month, I will show you what REAL logic is.

Your example is what is known as circular logic.

You make the assumption that the writing in ME3 is bad (which is entirely subjective and a personal opinion.) and attempt to use it to prove your conclusion, which lacks in any other kind of support. 

The logic you are GOING for is this;

The writers of Mass Effect 3 are bad.
Bad writers create bad writing.

Therefore; The writing in mass effect is bad.

The problem with that is while your conclusion holds true, your premises are unproven.

Example;

Birds are fish
Fish can swim

Therefore birds can swim.

The logical reasoning here is sound, in certain conditions, even the conclusion is true; some birds can swim, but the premise is untrue. Fish are not birds. (To state the obvious)

You cannot prove that the writers of ME3 were bad, because the only evidence that you can provide is the ending, which is your conclusion. You cannot use a conclusion to prove a premise.

Watch how it makes a circle (hence, circular logic)

The writers of ME3 are bad.
Bad writers create bad writing.

Therefore; the ending of ME3 was bad writing.

How do we know the writers of ME3 are bad?
Because the ending of ME3 was bad writing.

This is a logical fallacy.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 10 août 2012 - 09:17 .

[MaximizedAction]

Zan51 wrote...

Dunno if anyone has mentioned this, but came across this post from eddieoctane in reference to this thread - http://social.biowar...5019/1#13605358

eddieoctane wrote...
After synthesis, if the Catalyst still exists, then he needs to thank Jiminy Cricket for helping grant his wish
(after someone asked for clarification he said this:)
Pinocchio reference. If all organics are now part synthetic and vice versa, the catalyst is a real boy now, which is
what he wanted all along. Hence the prodding to take that route more than the other 2.

What do you guys think? Is there some motivation on the part of the Star brat VI to become "real" through synthesis?

Ok, I guess this one is better interpretated from the 'literal' standpoint:
The persuit to become more organic (human) and to understand them is well known in sci-fi (for example Data from TNG). From those characters we knew that they had a wish to become more than they were programmed to do.
The Catalyst/Guardian is difficult in that sense, unknowable in the way he's introduced (and when). We only know he'd rather have you chose Synthesis. The motivation of him is unclear and ould be whatever leads to such a preference.

So it being his secret wish to become more organic is just as 'legit' as him only trying to do fulfill his programming (which Synthesis seems to be able to finally accomplish): solve the conflict once and for all.
It might just as well be a rouge AI that is racist against all organics and wishes to homogenize everyone into a 'superior' race or has a programming error that enjoys the color green more than red or blue and comes up with lies for you to trigger the biggest firework in the galaxy.

If they wanted the literal interpretation to make sense they would've made it appropriately logical. Ambiguous, 'deep' space hocus-pocus, introduces in the last 10 min unfortunately allows for all kinds of rediculous interpretations. I'm looking forward to what viable arguments Leviathan will bring into the discussion.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 10 août 2012 - 08:33 .

[Arian Dynas]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Honestly this weeks operation probably a tribute to the Olympics more then anything

ORLY? Why, what a terrible coincidence it is that London is also a central part of the SP story and that there is also "something big happening in London".

*rolls eyes*
Some times you guys look way into things then what really is there.

The name is based on the Olympics, but still the description resembles what Anderson tells you.

Other way around. The Olympics are based on the name.

Olympus was the home of the Gods in Greek myth.

The Grecian Gods lived on Mount Olympus, an earthly mountain that stretched above the clouds, where Zeus and his house lived.

Olympians, or the Olympics, were a series of contests of strength and skill (usually preformed in the nude) where great atheletes would compete at the discus, javelin, Marathon, wrestling, chariot race, melee and several others. It was said Zeus and Herakles established the games, with Herakles himself being the one to declare the games "Olympic" as in, suitable for Olympus.

History of course states that the City State of Olympia had a tradition of holding foot races every 4 years, which eventually grew into a series of games and contests between many disparate Grecian city-states. allowing them to compete without bloodshed.

[MaximizedAction]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Other way around. The Olympics are based on the name.

Olympus was the home of the Gods in Greek myth.

The Grecian Gods lived on Mount Olympus, an earthly mountain that stretched above the clouds, where Zeus and his house lived.

Olympians, or the Olympics, were a series of contests of strength and skill (usually preformed in the nude) where great atheletes would compete at the discus, javelin, Marathon, wrestling, chariot race, melee and several others. It was said Zeus and Herakles established the games, with Herakles himself being the one to declare the games "Olympic" as in, suitable for Olympus.

History of course states that the City State of Olympia had a tradition of holding foot races every 4 years, which eventually grew into a series of games and contests between many disparate Grecian city-states. allowing them to compete without bloodshed.

Also, what's the highest mountain in the sol system called, where is it and what's so special about this place right now?

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 10 août 2012 - 08:40 .

[Gwyphon]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Other way around. The Olympics are based on the name.

Olympus was the home of the Gods in Greek myth.

The Grecian Gods lived on Mount Olympus, an earthly mountain that stretched above the clouds, where Zeus and his house lived.

Olympians, or the Olympics, were a series of contests of strength and skill (usually preformed in the nude) where great atheletes would compete at the discus, javelin, Marathon, wrestling, chariot race, melee and several others. It was said Zeus and Herakles established the games, with Herakles himself being the one to declare the games "Olympic" as in, suitable for Olympus.

History of course states that the City State of Olympia had a tradition of holding foot races every 4 years, which eventually grew into a series of games and contests between many disparate Grecian city-states. allowing them to compete without bloodshed.

Playing this operation in the nude to stay in the spirit of the operation.
It worries me that this is all I can think of to reply to your informative post. I'm truely sorry

Modifié par Gwyphon, 10 août 2012 - 08:42 .

[UltimateTobi]

Rosewind wrote...

Tobi YAY!!

Yay!
I was and still am very busy with DayZ, a MOD for ARMA 2.
So I hope you forgive my away-ness of this thread.

I hope the IT is still wealthy/healthy, developing and full of speculations.

[Lyria]

Um Arian, birds do swim...through the sky.


Hanar. Stop using "retarded" it is offensive and only strives to turn people off from reading your posts.

Modifié par protognosis, 10 août 2012 - 08:48 .

[Arian Dynas]

MaximizedAction wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

Why does anyone think that the catalyst is real? Shepard can't be the next catalyst because there is no catalyst. Indoctrination changes your own mind/brain. It's implied that the catalyst is Shepard's own mind because the kid's voice has your voice's echo.

You want to know who the catalyst is? He's the guy to the left, it's Shepard.

*snip*

All the catalyst is the indoctrinated part of Shepard's mind trying to be a catalyst or a change agent to get the last remnants of what's left of Shepard's free mind to give up. Shepard is fighting his own imagination/rationalization.
Edit: That's the reason they included the above scene.

Wow, ok. Makes sense. So both, the kid and Mr. Sparkles aren't hallucinations caused directly by the Reapers but the part of Shepard's mind that is affected by the ongoing indoc.? So the only enemy is the Reapers and indoc. nothing more...

Then it would really make sense for the Leviathan not mentioning the Catalyst but only clarify the theory behind indoctrination to later, at the end, make it easier to spot it.

I like this!

TIM is the affected part of his mind, I would say.

The "Catalyst" is an outside influence.

Harbinger himself.

Harbinger never stopped being the major villain. He just decided to go incognito for a while.

[byne]

protognosis wrote...

Hanar. Stop using "retarded" it is offensive and only strives to turn people off from reading your posts.

I personally dont find retarded to be offensive, but I do find that in an argument, the first person to throw out the word retarded is generally the person who has no other defense, and in my mind they are instantly the loser.

Anyways, whats goin on in here? I didnt feel too well yesterday and slept all day. Probably going back to sleep soon.

[MaximizedAction]

For anyone with an open mind, still wondering whether it truly could've been bad writing, this is one of the various analysis that caused me to find out about IT (it's not dealing about IT but just objectively analysing the ending from literary theory; long read but it open my eyes):

jmstevenson.me/2012/03/22/all-that-matters-is-the-ending-part-2-mass-effect-3/

[Arian Dynas]

protognosis wrote...

Um Arian, birds do swim...through the sky.


Hanar. Stop using "retarded" it is offensive and only strives offensive to turn people off from reading your posts.

Not so.

(Yes I am sure an Aerospace engineer is having a heart attack from the explanation I am about to give, but idc.)

While both make use of Bernoulli's Principl (Yes, I know it's actually more complicated than that, hypothetical Aerospace Engineer, but this is the simple explanation.) or at least some atheletes and predator fish make use of it to take advantage of lift, but when swimming, propulsion is generated by accelerating water, pushing it away from the subject and causing an equal and opposite reaction, pushing the subject forward.

Flight makes use primarly of (yes, I know, stop crying hypothetical Aerospace Engineer) Bernoulli's principle, creating lift by the movement of a fluid (air) underneath the wings, due to fluid underneath the wings moving more quickly than the fluid moving over the wings.

So no, avians and other airborne animals (though some insects are an exception.) do not "swim" in the air.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 10 août 2012 - 08:57 .

[MegumiAzusa]

Arian Dynas wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Honestly this weeks operation probably a tribute to the Olympics more then anything

ORLY? Why, what a terrible coincidence it is that London is also a central part of the SP story and that there is also "something big happening in London".

*rolls eyes*
Some times you guys look way into things then what really is there.

The name is based on the Olympics, but still the description resembles what Anderson tells you.

Other way around. The Olympics are based on the name.

Olympus was the home of the Gods in Greek myth.

The Grecian Gods lived on Mount Olympus, an earthly mountain that stretched above the clouds, where Zeus and his house lived.

Olympians, or the Olympics, were a series of contests of strength and skill (usually preformed in the nude) where great atheletes would compete at the discus, javelin, Marathon, wrestling, chariot race, melee and several others. It was said Zeus and Herakles established the games, with Herakles himself being the one to declare the games "Olympic" as in, suitable for Olympus.

History of course states that the City State of Olympia had a tradition of holding foot races every 4 years, which eventually grew into a series of games and contests between many disparate Grecian city-states. allowing them to compete without bloodshed.

The name of the operation... I know what you wrote there.
Don't paint me as if I don't know ****, thankyouverymuch.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 10 août 2012 - 08:57 .

[Arian Dynas]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Other way around. The Olympics are based on the name.

Olympus was the home of the Gods in Greek myth.

The Grecian Gods lived on Mount Olympus, an earthly mountain that stretched above the clouds, where Zeus and his house lived.

Olympians, or the Olympics, were a series of contests of strength and skill (usually preformed in the nude) where great atheletes would compete at the discus, javelin, Marathon, wrestling, chariot race, melee and several others. It was said Zeus and Herakles established the games, with Herakles himself being the one to declare the games "Olympic" as in, suitable for Olympus.

History of course states that the City State of Olympia had a tradition of holding foot races every 4 years, which eventually grew into a series of games and contests between many disparate Grecian city-states. allowing them to compete without bloodshed.

Also, what's the highest mountain in the sol system called, where is it and what's so special about this place right now?

Olympus Mons, Mars, Curiousity landed, featured as the location of the Prothean Archive.

Next? 

[Gwyphon]

Arian Dynas wrote...

protognosis wrote...

Um Arian, birds do swim...through the sky.


Hanar. Stop using "retarded" it is offensive and only strives offensive to turn people off from reading your posts.

Not so.

(Yes I am sure an Aerospace engineer is having a heart attack from the explanation I am about to give, but idc.)

While both make use of Bernoulli's Principl (Yes, I know it's actually more complicated than that, hypothetical Aerospace Engineer, but this is the simple explanation.) or at least some atheletes and predator fish make use of it to take advantage of lift, but when swimming, propulsion is generated by accelerating water, pushing it away from the subject and causing an equal and opposite reaction, pushing the subject forward.

Flight makes use primarly of (yes, I know, stop crying hypothetical Aerospace Engineer) Bernoulli's principle, creating lift by the movement of a fluid (air) underneath the wings, due to fluid underneath the wings moving more quickly than the fluid moving over the wings.

So no, avians and other airborne animals (though some insects are an exception.) do not "swim" in the air.

4th year Aerospace Engineering student and some people in my class still give worse explanations than that. I think I can let it slide

[Arian Dynas]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Honestly this weeks operation probably a tribute to the Olympics more then anything

ORLY? Why, what a terrible coincidence it is that London is also a central part of the SP story and that there is also "something big happening in London".

*rolls eyes*
Some times you guys look way into things then what really is there.

The name is based on the Olympics, but still the description resembles what Anderson tells you.

Other way around. The Olympics are based on the name.

Olympus was the home of the Gods in Greek myth.

The Grecian Gods lived on Mount Olympus, an earthly mountain that stretched above the clouds, where Zeus and his house lived.

Olympians, or the Olympics, were a series of contests of strength and skill (usually preformed in the nude) where great atheletes would compete at the discus, javelin, Marathon, wrestling, chariot race, melee and several others. It was said Zeus and Herakles established the games, with Herakles himself being the one to declare the games "Olympic" as in, suitable for Olympus.

History of course states that the City State of Olympia had a tradition of holding foot races every 4 years, which eventually grew into a series of games and contests between many disparate Grecian city-states. allowing them to compete without bloodshed.

The name of the operation... I know what you wrote there.
Don't paint me as if I don't know ****, thankyouverymuch.

I did not. The information was for everyone else.

[Arian Dynas]

Gwyphon wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

protognosis wrote...

Um Arian, birds do swim...through the sky.


Hanar. Stop using "retarded" it is offensive and only strives offensive to turn people off from reading your posts.

Not so.

(Yes I am sure an Aerospace engineer is having a heart attack from the explanation I am about to give, but idc.)

While both make use of Bernoulli's Principl (Yes, I know it's actually more complicated than that, hypothetical Aerospace Engineer, but this is the simple explanation.) or at least some atheletes and predator fish make use of it to take advantage of lift, but when swimming, propulsion is generated by accelerating water, pushing it away from the subject and causing an equal and opposite reaction, pushing the subject forward.

Flight makes use primarly of (yes, I know, stop crying hypothetical Aerospace Engineer) Bernoulli's principle, creating lift by the movement of a fluid (air) underneath the wings, due to fluid underneath the wings moving more quickly than the fluid moving over the wings.

So no, avians and other airborne animals (though some insects are an exception.) do not "swim" in the air.

4th year Aerospace Engineering student and some people in my class still give worse explanations than that. I think I can let it slide

Sweet. 

[MaximizedAction]

Arian Dynas wrote...
*snip*
Flight makes use primarly of (yes, I know, stop crying hypothetical Aerospace Engineer) Bernoulli's principle, creating lift by the movement of a fluid (air) underneath the wings, due to fluid underneath the wings moving more quickly than the fluid moving over the wings.

So no, avians and other airborne animals (though some insects are an exception.) do not "swim" in the air.

That would make it 'sink' even faster. It's the other way around, the air is going faster on the top of the wing. Air (fluids) with higher velocity have lower pressure, and that's proportional to force. Hence, the bird is being 'pushed' upwards.

And I believe that TSA wouldn't enjoy being called a hypothetical aeron. engineer.

[Arian Dynas]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...
*snip*
Flight makes use primarly of (yes, I know, stop crying hypothetical Aerospace Engineer) Bernoulli's principle, creating lift by the movement of a fluid (air) underneath the wings, due to fluid underneath the wings moving more quickly than the fluid moving over the wings.

So no, avians and other airborne animals (though some insects are an exception.) do not "swim" in the air.

That would make it 'sink' even faster. It's the other way around, the air is going faster on the top of the wing. Air (fluids) with higher velocity have lower pressure, and that's proportional to force. Hence, the bird is being 'pushed' upwards.

And I believe that TSA wouldn't enjoy being called a hypothetical aeron. engineer.

Ooops...

You're right.

 If it's any defense, my last physics class was in middle school...

[Rosewind]

Gwyphon wrote...


*Snip*

4th year Aerospace Engineering student and some people in my class still give worse explanations than that. I think I can let it slide

Awesome! Can you make me a Jet pack? lol

[byne]

Alright, I'm going back to bed.

Also, while I'm pretty sure this is not relevant to the current discussion of how birds fly, penguins do swim.

[Gwyphon]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...
*snip*
Flight makes use primarly of (yes, I know, stop crying hypothetical Aerospace Engineer) Bernoulli's principle, creating lift by the movement of a fluid (air) underneath the wings, due to fluid underneath the wings moving more quickly than the fluid moving over the wings.

So no, avians and other airborne animals (though some insects are an exception.) do not "swim" in the air.

That would make it 'sink' even faster. It's the other way around, the air is going faster on the top of the wing. Air (fluids) with higher velocity have lower pressure, and that's proportional to force. Hence, the bird is being 'pushed' upwards.

And I believe that TSA wouldn't enjoy being called a hypothetical aeron. engineer.

Not quite, else planes couldn't fly upside down . It's actually to do with air circulation around the wing
Now I'm not really familiar with biomechanics but I believe the actions of swimming and flying are fundimentally different due to the density of water and bouyancy (displacing more than your weight in water causes you to float), or when swimming the only mass that you have to counteract with lift is your mass-mass of water displaced. Because water is more dense fish can rise by simply displacing water downwards (similar to a rocket, in a sense) which is very unlike a bird, who's flight mechanics are more so like a plane which relies on wing circulation to generate a lift force purpendicular to mass displacement (the engines displace air 90 degrees to the direction in which you want lift). 
Or something like that. I'm tired and don't really care for this. I think your understanding of fluid mechanics varies greatly depending on who lectured you.

Let's get back on topic

Rosewind wrote...

Gwyphon wrote...


*Snip*

4th
year Aerospace Engineering student and some people in my class still
give worse explanations than that. I think I can let it slide [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/policeman.png[/smilie]

Awesome! Can you make me a Jet pack? lol

I could DESIGN parts of one. Problem with Engineering is that you need like 3 disciplines of engineers to get anything significant done. (For example, a jetpack would probably need an Aerospace, Mechanical, Electrical, Software, Control systems and chemical engineer, or even more to fully design). My uni focuses on scramjets (we have the fastest shock tunnel in the world. It shakes the entire building ) and so I'm kind of hoping to work on them.

Modifié par Gwyphon, 10 août 2012 - 09:16 .

[Arian Dynas]

byne wrote...

Alright, I'm going back to bed.

Also, while I'm pretty sure this is not relevant to the current discussion of how birds fly, penguins do swim.

I'm aware, and was even thinking about it while writing the argument, but that fact is not relevant. The conclusion can be true, the logic can be sound, but if the premise is false, the argument is flawed.

Fish are not birds.

[Arian Dynas]

Gwyphon wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...
*snip*
Flight makes use primarly of (yes, I know, stop crying hypothetical Aerospace Engineer) Bernoulli's principle, creating lift by the movement of a fluid (air) underneath the wings, due to fluid underneath the wings moving more quickly than the fluid moving over the wings.

So no, avians and other airborne animals (though some insects are an exception.) do not "swim" in the air.

That would make it 'sink' even faster. It's the other way around, the air is going faster on the top of the wing. Air (fluids) with higher velocity have lower pressure, and that's proportional to force. Hence, the bird is being 'pushed' upwards.

And I believe that TSA wouldn't enjoy being called a hypothetical aeron. engineer.

Not quite, else planes couldn't fly upside down . It's actually to do with air circulation around the wing

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE ANYMORE!!!! I CAN'T TRUST MY OWN MEMORY! 

I'll side with the expert here, since my memory is foggy. :happy: