80611 réponses à ce sujet

[estebanus]

Great. Just great. Both sides throwing around useless insults at each other the same way apes throw sh*t at each other. What does this help? Do you think that insulting people is a good way to make them see your point? You're acting like small children. Both of you.

pitiful. Just pitiful. You should both be ashamed of yourselves..

[Ravereth]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
And yeah, the feeling is mutual Mr. Dynas. So lets just stop this.

Three times a charm, huh? 

[estebanus]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, something occured to me, which could be either coincidence, or Bioware being indescribably meta.

Reading the article that Maximized action posted, and a comment the writer made, made me realize, the Catalyst is a LITERAL Deus Ex Machina. A literal "God from the Machine."

Could this perhaps be Bioware saying "Hey, yeah you know this guy? Probably shouldn't be listening to him."

Or I'm sleep deprived, one or the other.

A literal Deus Ex Machina is not better than a metaphorical Deus Ex Machina, in fact I think it's even worse (but that's just my humble opinion). A Deus Ex machina still is bad writing, whether it's literal or not.

I think that anything involving something suddenly solving something is abhorrent for storytelling. It completely breaks the immersion. The crucible is essentially a reaper off button, and it just pisses me off how a company like Bioware could stoop down to something as crappy as that. The same goes for a Deus Ex Machina. One that isn't even needed to solve anything, at that.

[The Heretic of Time]

estebanus wrote...

Great. Just great. Both sides throwing around useless insults at each other the same way apes throw sh*t at each other. What does this help? Do you think that insulting people is a good way to make them see your point? You're acting like small children. Both of you.

pitiful. Just pitiful. You should both be ashamed of yourselves..

You're right estebanus. I should never even have started arguing with Arian, I should have known nothing could would come from it. That was my mistake and I'm sorry. From now on I shall just ignore Arian Dynas, just like I'm ignoring that kid CoolioThane.


Anyway, I need a break from the forums anyway. So I'll be going now, leaving you IT folks to your own business. Maybe I'll come back, maybe I won't. Anyway, I'll see you guys on the battlefield (and with that I mean the rest of BSN outside of the IT thread).

[CoolioThane]

Bye Hanar you'll be missed

[Arian Dynas]

*shakes head* And he says I'm arrogant.

I will agree Estebanus, probably shouldn't have let him get under my skin.

[CoolioThane]

Post-Ending DLC has not been ruled out, just to get everyone's speculation juices flowing.

[The Heretic of Time]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Ah yes I remember these, but funny how 3 of those 4 points are all brought up in the ending, the very thing which this Theory is about explaining. Under this theory the 3 first points are non existent

That's not true. The 3 points still very much exist even if the IT is true.

Whether the IT is true or not, the Catalyst is still a plothole-ridden little Deus Ex Machina that totally came out of the blue with no foreshadowing whatsoever. Waving it off with an "All Just a Dream" plot device (which is what the IT basically is) is not changing that.

The final point about the Crucible is disputeable. As has been discussed a hundred times in this thread allready, the Crucible itself could easily be part of the entire trap we discuss in here making it point of dispute and not something idd write of as bad writing just yet.

Again, even if the Crucible is anything else than it is presented as, it's still a lousy McGuffin that came out of nowhere and so happens to be found at exactly the right moment on exactly the right place. Maybe your standards are not as high as mine, but this certainly qualifies as bad writing to me, even if the Crucible is a "trap" or whatever else it could be.

Also I wouldnt say it is not foreshadowed at all. Super weapons have been developed against the Reapers before, such as the cannon which took out the Derelict Reaper and I actually had a theory taht the Crucible and that cannon could be the same or near the same weapon, simply by the Crucible turning the Citadel relay into a giant Mass Accelerator Cannon, but that is all speculation.

For such a huge plot-device it had too little foreshadowing. A supposed super weapon is not the same as the Crucible and it certainly is not enough foreshadowing for such a huge plot-device.

Point is the Crucible is dosent have to be waht we think it is and thus still a point in contention. I can agree it is a bad plot device in the litteral sense, but considering this thread is dedicated to exploring the possibilities beyond the litteral sense I cant get completely behind it.

Like I said, even if the Crucible turns out to be completely something else (which I doubt as much as I doubt the IT), it's still a bad plot device for the fact that it has not been properly foreshadowed and that it's introduced on the worst time possible (well, the best time possible for the in-game characters, but the worst time possible from a story-writing perspective).

[CoolioThane]

But what you say...it is TOO convenient etc. that is because it's a trap. What you're saying is kind of supporting IT...

[estebanus]

CoolioThane wrote...

But what you say...it is TOO convenient etc. that is because it's a trap. What you're saying is kind of supporting IT...

No, it can also support bad writing.

[MaximizedAction]

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

But what you say...it is TOO convenient etc. that is because it's a trap. What you're saying is kind of supporting IT...

No, it can also support bad writing.

I don't get it. I myself have a biorythm of where I'm sure about IT and where I'm frustrated with IT, but how does one spot bad writing? How does one even define it? IT is easily defined but how would someone with a critical enough mind 'prove' bad writing in the same sense as someone would 'prove' IT?

[CoolioThane]

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

But what you say...it is TOO convenient etc. that is because it's a trap. What you're saying is kind of supporting IT...

No, it can also support bad writing.

Really? Is that why he's using it to back up his opinion of bad writing?

Jesus, get over it man.

Modifié par CoolioThane, 10 août 2012 - 01:45 .

[masster blaster]

smokingotter1 wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

*Selective snip* Comments in blue. I always like to remember when I'm immersed in a story that the characters are not only speaking to each other but throught the character to the audience.

Okay on Thessia Tim says " They are just trying to Control US. Think about it. If they wanted all organic life Destroyed, they could do it..." At this part of the game I was open to control a bit. I mean if the reapers were fighting Cerberus on sancturary Cerberus must be on to something. Little disappointed that there was no way to let Miranda's Dad live. I know he was a monster, but given the stakes...(mmm steak) I would have been open to working with him, with him dead I didn't believe there was a chance in hell Cerberus could control anything.

then TIM says " I know them Shepard. I know how they think." One thing the writers of Mass Effect hit us on the head over and over again is that the reaper motives are unknowable. This is a warning sign of indoctrination and why you should always be wary of the starchild. If the geth with all their fancy microchips cannot fathom what the reapers mind is like after interfacing with one how is a starchild going to explain in a minute the entire reaper mindset? More likely the mind rationalizes serving the reapers, one way or another.

Then TIM says: "And I can say the same to you. Wasting your time, on a war that can not be won."

But then Shepard says " At LEAST I am fighting."

dam makes you wonder if Destroy you are still fighting. "This is very true, indoctrination changes the way you think and act in ways you may or may not be able to explain. If the decision chamber is an overlay of reality what exactly is Shepard shooting at? The conduit beam dies when Shepard chooses destroy, could it be possible that if Shepard will not willingly open his mind to indoctrination that the reapers will compel Shepard to sabotage the conduit beam thus making sure no one makes it to the citadel?

But then TIM says " Never question my ability to fight. I've been fighting the Reapers longer than you can imagine." [color=rgb(0, 0, 128)">"The writers are also refering to TIM ]It's a miracle TIM [/color]has lasted so long before going full bore indoctrinated.

But then TIM says later[b] " Shepard there are choices coming that you're not equipped to make." TIM is currently 100% correct, ME3 ends in a cliffhanger with Shepard still in London in a bunch of rubble with Harbinger still around. Not a very good position to be in. Shepard does not have the tools to win the battle against the reapers...yet. *cough* DLC.

You know, people complain about your giant walls of text, masster, but I like how you always pull evidence directly from the source.

This dialogue definitely has some interesting elements. The foreshadowing about the "choices you are not equipped to make" might be a hint that TIM knows about the Starbrat.

[masster blaster]

Hrothdane wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Holy S***. I found a good renegade option for the Conversation with TIM, on Thessia, and Cronus station, and the Citadel.



okay this sums up everything I was trying to say about Renegade Shepard.

Okay on Thessia Tim says " They are just trying to Control US. Think about it. If they wanted all organic life Destroyed, they could do it..."
then TIM says " I know them Shepard. I know how they think."

Well of course you do your Indoctrinated. That's why you can think like they do.

Then my personal favorite Shepard: " The Reapers have it right. Your Indoctrinated.Your doing just what they want."

Then TIM says: "And I can say the same to you. Wasting your time, on a war that can not be won."

But then Shepard says " At LEAST I am fighting."

dam makes you wonder if Destroy you are still fighting.

But then TIM says " Never question my ability to fight. I've been fighting the Reapers longer than you can imagine."

Oh so he has been fighting the Reapers, but you only can now that if you read the comic book, about how TIM got his eyes, and Cerberus stated.
But then TIM says later " Shepard there are choices coming that you're not equipped to make."

major foreshadowing, and Equipped to make, but what does he mean equipped to make?

But then Shepard says " At least I'll be making them as a human being, your just some Reaper puppet."

okay next is Cronus station okay nothing major here, but Shepard asked TIM, about how many did you kill to get to where you are at, but TIM says " You wouldn't listen to me"


Okay this is the last Conversation we have with TIM, he tells Shepard that He needs Shepard to believe, but for what, and then later Shepard tells TIM that that the power has clouded him, and the TIM tells SHEPARD " Are YOU going to Control the Reapers." That's right.He tells Shepard are you going to Control the Reapers. Then TIM goes rage quite when Shepard tells Tim you are weak, and selfish, but it's funny because TIM says " I am the Pinnacle of our species

Harbinger "we are the pinnacle of Evolution."

I did this because Renegade Shepard always get's on TIMs bad side, and TIM revels much more information, unlike Paragon Shepard. So the diffrence is that Renegade Shepard shows tahtZTIm is Indoctrinated, and Shepard might be going under Indoctrination. But Paragon Shepard always questions if you can does hits, then help me. But renegade Shepard is like if you can do it, then do it.

I think that's why Bioware asked have you played through ALL possible out comes yet, since renegade revels much more about the endings, but Paragon is always trying to get TIm on his/her side, but without questioning, that TIM is Indoctrinated.

Edit:Please if you have something to say say it please.
I worked about an hour on this so please let me know if you like it, or not.

You know, people complain about your giant walls of text, masster, but I like how you always pull evidence directly from the source.

This dialogue definitely has some interesting elements. The foreshadowing about the "choices you are not equipped to make" might be a hint that TIM knows about the Starbrat.

Modifié par masster blaster, 10 août 2012 - 05:04 .

[masster blaster]

Okay i am watching that Paragon video, on all Conversations off TIM, and I notice something, remember the files of the Crucible, were being erased. Well we don't have a complete Crucible, since most of the data is gone, and maybe the Protheans used the Crucible, for that one Reaper we get to go inside in ME2.

[masster blaster]

Okay going back to Thessia for Paragon Shepard, I notice if Shepard asked TIM that he is getting to close to the enemy, TIM is like " No.. I'm saying they got it right. Why kill, when you can Control."
Then Shepard will ask Tim" You be spending to much time with the enemy. They're dragging you over to their side--Their way of thinking."
But then TIM is contradicting himself again " No.I just....see things differently."

Well, well well. Bioware was telling us that TIM was Indoctrinated yet again. Also notice it looks like TIM is switching personality's when Shepard as Paragon keeps asking your spending to much TIME with the enemy.
TIME we spend to much TIM with the Catalyst at the end, and he is telling us his view of things, and we listen to him, unless our will is stronger, and we pick Destroy, to kill the Reapers.
In other words, all Indoctrinated people, had to make the choice at the end as we/Shepard has to make,nobody ever picked destroy, because it was to horrific, but everyone else picked Control, and Synthesis.

Now going on TIM tells Shepard that " Don't ever question my intentions. I've sacrificed more for humanity, than you'll ever know. And don't assume you KNOW ME."

Okay I just like to point out, that what has TIM sacrificed for humanity. His free will, his people, his organization, that stood for Humanity, only to betray it. The countless people that you took from their homes, to make them your personal army, to serve the Reapers. And hey Shepard my not know you, but the PLAYER DOES, if you READ the Comic about HOW TIM CAME TO BE.



Here is the Video that has all Paragon Conversations, and I will add more to what I have found, and explain it more in depth.

Modifié par masster blaster, 10 août 2012 - 02:32 .

[TSA_383]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
And yeah, the feeling is mutual Mr. Dynas. So lets just stop this.

Seriously, this thread is for speculation, not ad-hominems and personal battles.

Also, a couple of tweets you guys might be interested in:
https://twitter.com/...741561911992320 
^Associate producer of Mass Effect, "awesome news"... intriguing.

Also, for any codemonkeys out there, Bioware is hiring for something mass effect related - ME4?

https://twitter.com/...682852523425792 

[masster blaster]

TSA, OR for the final project of ME3 dlc wise.

[MaximizedAction]

Welp, almost 2h until OLYMPUS starts and still no friends in Origin. Did Steam have similar bugs back when it was new?

[masster blaster]

Guys I think I figured out why people say Shepard could not be indoctrinatered, but Shepard can.

Remember ME2, Shepard was dead for 2 Years, if Shepard was going under anything, it died before Shepard could feel Indoctrination at work, now if you look at the events of ME3, it's interesting, how long it took, for Shepard to feel the indoctrination, but did he, no it's up to the players to see Indoctrination, not Shepard. Also I am going to do a time line of years/months Shepard WAS ALIVE, because it does not count if Shepard is dead, so I am going to subtract how long Shepard has been alive for, and compare the difference.

Edit: And Remeber indoctrination can last for MONTHS, or YEARS.

Modifié par masster blaster, 10 août 2012 - 03:04 .

[CoolioThane]

What the hell Masster? That made no sense to me xD

[MegumiAzusa]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Welp, almost 2h until OLYMPUS starts and still no friends in Origin. Did Steam have similar bugs back when it was new?

Some weeks you couldn't even be sure to log in correctly. A faulty/nonworking friend list occurred easily on a "regular" basis until ~2010

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 10 août 2012 - 03:12 .

[BlazingZephyr]

CoolioThane wrote...

What the hell Masster? That made no sense to me xD

Wat ir yu taking abot. i underfine it stood.

Sorry, couldn't resist. Any good speculation happen in the last ten hours?

[TSA_383]

Heh.

Anyway, is there a way for us to get in a game without using the origin friend system or is that pretty hopeless?

[Rosewind]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Welp, almost 2h until OLYMPUS starts and still no friends in Origin. Did Steam have similar bugs back when it was new?

Oh thats why hardly onyone is on, thought everyone was avoiding me lol.