80611 réponses à ce sujet

[CoolioThane]

No one knows for sure what's going to happen. I doubt even Bioware does. Let's enjoy the ride

[masster blaster]

masster blaster wrote...

Any way I have been thinking about what Garrus Tell's after the coup attempt Shepard " If it have come down to it, would you pull the Trigger?

now for Renegade, Shepard is like yes i would, Bioware telling us that at the end, we are going to have to pull the Trigger to get the job done, would you do it.but Paragon Shepard is like " I don't see how. We start killing our friends, and wars TURNS INTO MURDER.

Destroy ending is murder if you think about it, but then Garrus tells Shepard " But it doesn't ALWAYS GIVE US THE EASY WAY OUT, does it?'

Dam I guess Bioware was hinting that Destroy isn't the easy way out, but maybe they were trying to tell us that maybe Destroy is the easy way out, only if you are willing to stay true to your believes.



Also I have been wondering what does Garrus mean after he tells Shepard, after the fall of Thessia

" I had to make a tough call with the Primarch he said our fleets are being decimated. So I advised him to call all offensive operations against the Reapers."

Then Shepard says " A full retreat."

www.youtube.com/watch
Now Shepard seems surprised about this, but what's more interesting, is that when your firing the Crucible, it's a Full retreat, as in they are hoping for the Crucible to let it do it's work.

just like Garrus said " The only way to save Palaven now is to hold our ships back, for the Crucible. But if I'm wrong.... Then a lot of other Turian families won't be as lucky as mine."

Could be Bioware telling us the Crucible could be a Reaper trap, or that the choices we make, will dictate, were things go from here.

Now here is the best part that Shepard says " That's a hell of a gamble. No other options"

The endings are a hell of a gamble too, but instead of there are other options, there are more options to choice to save everyone, form the Reapers. And weather or not you believe in the Catalyst or not/ Indoctrination, is a hell of gamble too.

And then Garrus tells Shepard " If there are. i can't see them, it's all comes down to the Crucible now." interesting that's what happened at the end, it comes down to the Crucible, but there are other options that Shepard can not see, but the player does, so we have to show Shepard the way.

Any thoughts.

CoolioThane i believe Bioware knows what they are doing, but we don't since they are not telling us, but want us to speculate, until the time is right.

Modifié par masster blaster, 11 août 2012 - 03:59 .

[Arashi08]

 

The Twilight God wrote...

 

I wouldn't consider resisting long enough to kill yourself or being mildly indoctrinated realizing it long enough to kill yourself beating indoctrination. Their suicides are in actuallyity an admission of their defeat. A triumph over the Reapers themselves? Maybe, but not a triumph over indoctrination.

Shiala didn't beat indoctrination. The Thorian's involvement supplanted one form of control for another. Then it died leaving her free. The Rachni Queen doesn't resist it. She seems magically immune. Which doesn't make any sense and comes of as handwaving to explain why the rachni can be trusted. They never really explain how this queen is immune, while the ones in the past weren't.

Well one could argue that in ME1 they do give a clue as to the Rachni queens being able to resist or be immune to indoctrination.  The queen you speak to on Noveria says when she was an egg she was "Hearing mother cry in (her) dreams"  implying that it was the Rachni children who were indoctrinated while the queens were forced to watch as they went to war.  It is a really vague clue of course but one could still make the argument that the queens were never affected by indoctrination, since it is never implied that the queens were indoctrinated during the Rachni Wars.

Edited: To give proper credit to the poster, since I messed it up the first time

Modifié par Arashi08, 11 août 2012 - 04:01 .

[MegumiAzusa]

jojon2se wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

jojon2se wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

The save files indicate in destroy EDI dies and in refuse everyone dies.

Both of which are ultimately untrue (or rather: "irrelevant") in any Shepard-never-left-Earth flavoured indoctrination scenario.
...

Why? It can well be your squad never left earth too and your choice ultimately results in these deaths.

How?

The idea is that the choices are metaphorical and have no direct real world effects, other than deciding the mind of the Shepard that comes out of this attempted final push at trying to sneakily co-opt any one of its inclinations.

You could say that, by extension, the post-event actions of a Shepard that has taken any of the paths, will cause these, or similar, effects, but those are not absolutes and are subject to numerous external influences.

That is your idea, not mine. (Where it would be a semi reality)

[masster blaster]

Arashi08 wrote...

 

The Twilight God wrote...

 

I wouldn't consider resisting long enough to kill yourself or being mildly indoctrinated realizing it long enough to kill yourself beating indoctrination. Their suicides are in actuallyity an admission of their defeat. A triumph over the Reapers themselves? Maybe, but not a triumph over indoctrination.

Shiala didn't beat indoctrination. The Thorian's involvement supplanted one form of control for another. Then it died leaving her free. The Rachni Queen doesn't resist it. She seems magically immune. Which doesn't make any sense and comes of as handwaving to explain why the rachni can be trusted. They never really explain how this queen is immune, while the ones in the past weren't.

Well one could argue that in ME1 they do give a clue as to the Rachni queens being able to resist or be immune to indoctrination.  The queen you speak to on Noveria says when she was an egg she was "Hearing mother cry in (her) dreams"  implying that it was the Rachni children who were indoctrinated while the queens were forced to watch as they went to war.  It is a really vague clue of course but one could still make the argument that the queens were never affected by indoctrination, since it is never implied that the queens were indoctrinated during the Rachni Wars.

Edited: To give proper credit to the poster, since I messed it up the first time

Nor is Legion in ME3, when we find him on the Geth Dreadnought, but the reapers used the queens to Control the other workers, hence why they were huskedafid to fit the Reaper needs to battle the galaxy. Also explains why legion was not changed by the Reapers using their signels to Control the Geth, as they are using the Queens siginals to Control the Rachni workers, but re using their sounds to use against the Rachni inorder to get them to follow the reapers.

Modifié par masster blaster, 11 août 2012 - 04:08 .

[TheConstantOne]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

Hey Twilight, Arian. I'd just like to chime in and offer my opinion on this question. 

I have a more abstract view of the Catalyst chamber, in that Shepard is still unconscious by the control panel in the Citadel and the chamber is a mental construction while Shepard battles for his/her mind against the force of indoctrination (the Star Kid.)  The scenes that you see upon making a choice are Shepard's beliefs of what will transpire as a consequence of the final decision just before waking up.

Each of the indoctrinating endings is a brainwashed version of something that the Reapers are actually doing.  In elaboration:

Control: Shepard believes that peace and order throughout the galaxy will be obtained by using the Reapers.  However, acheving peace and order is precisely the Catalyst's stated goal.  In Control, Shepard literally becomes nothing more than what he/she was fighting against: agents of the Reapers.  I don't actually think that Shepard becomes a Reaper here, as he/she speaks as a distinct identity separate from the many minds that even individual Reapers seem to acknowledge they have.  Rather, Shepard becomes a puppet of the Reapers believing that the harvest that transpires is necessary to "obtain peace."

Synthesis: Shepard actually melts down his/her genetic material and becomes the driving component of a Reaper.  I suggest this because synthesis leads to Shepard's identity being lost (disintegrated a la beam) and "merging" with many other minds.  A new single whole is created, this whole being a new Reaper.  This point of view is further stengthened by the ideas of absolute unity suggested among the many in the epilogue scenes that follow.

Destroy: Sheaprd's resolve means that the current level of indoctrination is still not sufficient to stop him/her.  The Crucible control panel might very well be activated in this case.

The key to my point of view is that the Shepard we control in the Catalyst chamber represents Shepard's identity.  Choosing to preserve your identity but adopt the Reapers methods and goals makes Shepard an indoctrinated agent.  Choosing to destroy your identity to meld with other life represents becoming a Reaper.

In Refuse, Shepard can't commit his/her identity towards any choice, indoctrinated or using every last ounce of your identity to fight the Reapers' influences. The result of this noncommital attitude leads to the death of Shepard's mind and, consequently, of his/her body.

In summary, indoctrinating suggestions can be resisted.  What is happening in the Catalyst chamber is Shepard's identity being presented with very appealing lies about Reaper objectives.  If Shepard chooses Destroy, indoctrinating effects haven't been cleansed from his/her mind per se.  It merely suggests that the Reapers' current indoctrinating influence is still not sufficient to sway Shepard's beliefs

This is exactly my stance. What is important though, is that Shepard stops fighting in Control/Synthesis (throws away gun), and even though he's defiant in Reject, he basically gives up on his objective, he doesn't even want to destroy the Reapers any more.

Yes, and I would actually say that the "wake up" scene depicts Shepard on the Citadel but the ceiling of the control room caved in (or perhaps he "sleep walked" to a new region).  I'd imagine that there is an intense battle on the Citadel going on against Reapers forces.  That or, again, Shepard actually does use the control panel and the Crucible's activation damages the room's superstructure (without detonating it in an extremely powerful explosion)

[masster blaster]

Well after Leviathan comes out do you think Omega dlc is the next one to come out, because there was Omega script, and maps to hint that there will be a retake Omega dlc. Which could change some of the endings.

[TheConstantOne]

Codename_Code wrote...

Guys, what about this stargaze scene :


The voice is obviously the same voice as the space bieber, the " did that all really" is pronounced as the space bieber would do , this could be classified as lazy atention to detail by bioware, but it is too wrong, what if this a sign that Shepard is dreaming ?.

I had always assumed that the Stargazer scene was real (it takes place after the credits and the Shepard breath scene), but this could be pretty compelling evidence to make the contrary argument

[MaximizedAction]

TheConstantOne wrote...
Yes, and I would actually say that the "wake up" scene depicts Shepard on the Citadel but the ceiling of the control room caved in (or perhaps he "sleep walked" to a new region).  I'd imagine that there is an intense battle on the Citadel going on against Reapers forces.  That or, again, Shepard actually does use the control panel and the Crucible's activation damages the room's superstructure (without detonating it in an extremely powerful explosion)

Really? The breath scene has rebar and concrete blocks with the same markings as everything in London and Bioware still chose the bombed Citadel to look like that? This would be just lame trolling.

[johnj1979]

Does anyone know what is going on in Mass Effect 3

[masster blaster]

MaximizedAction wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...
Yes, and I would actually say that the "wake up" scene depicts Shepard on the Citadel but the ceiling of the control room caved in (or perhaps he "sleep walked" to a new region).  I'd imagine that there is an intense battle on the Citadel going on against Reapers forces.  That or, again, Shepard actually does use the control panel and the Crucible's activation damages the room's superstructure (without detonating it in an extremely powerful explosion)

Really? The breath scene has rebar and concrete blocks with the same markings as everything in London and Bioware still chose the bombed Citadel to look like that? This would be just lame trolling.

Well a lot of people don't believe that Shepard could be on Earth, which is stupid, yet logical if you look at it in a literal point of view, but they are just trying to get our minds disoriented.

[masster blaster]

johnj1979 wrote...

Does anyone know what is going on in Mass Effect 3

Do you mean the plot of ME3, or ME3 in general?

[TheConstantOne]

MaximizedAction wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...
Yes, and I would actually say that the "wake up" scene depicts Shepard on the Citadel but the ceiling of the control room caved in (or perhaps he "sleep walked" to a new region).  I'd imagine that there is an intense battle on the Citadel going on against Reapers forces.  That or, again, Shepard actually does use the control panel and the Crucible's activation damages the room's superstructure (without detonating it in an extremely powerful explosion)

Really? The breath scene has rebar and concrete blocks with the same markings as everything in London and Bioware still chose the bombed Citadel to look like that? This would be just lame trolling.

Not necessarily.  I remember that, way back in mark 1, someone did a presentation that showed that all of the rubble in the breath scene are present on the Citadel.  I'd give a link if I knew where to find it.

So, it seems to me that there is enough room for doubt to argue both ways here: Shepard could be in London or on the Citadel

[estebanus]

johnj1979 wrote...

Does anyone know what is going on in Mass Effect 3

The reapers are attacking the galaxy, and you play the role of Commander Shepard. You must take back Earth and defeat the reapers once and for all.

Does that answer your question?

[ebuchala]

masster blaster wrote...

Ebuchala
No it's Genocide period. Wreath or not you try to think about it, they
didn't ask yo die, nor did they want to, but Shepard had the power to
save the council, and sacrifice the men, and woman of the Alliance, or sacrifice the men, and woman of the Ascension/ the Turian fleets, along
with Alliance ships, so either way it's the same. You are trying to stop Sovereign from bringing the Reapers into the galaxy, and you are trying
to end the Reapers once and for all. IT's the same, only a whole race
is going to die, along with a good friend.

But also you forget in arrival, in order to stop the Reapers, you either had to send the asteroid into the relay, and that's it. You couldn't save all the
Batarians in the system, so Shepard did kill a lot of people, weather
you tried to stop it, or not.

Also remember Legions ME2 loyalty mission. You committed genocide if you
killed them because they were reprogrammed by the Reapers because of an
error in the net work. Also if you rewrite the Geth, you are taking away
there freedom, of following the Reapers, but what is the best choice.

That is why weather or not IT is  right about Destroy ending waking up, or IT ever being wrong. I will always choose Destroy, because it's the right thing to do.

Well, I have to take back what I said. I always defined genocide as referring to the mass murder of a whole group/nation/race, etc. but looking at various definitions of it shows me I'm wrong. And I have forgotten about the Batarians which even fits the definition of genocide that I had.

And, for the record, I always choose Destroy, as well (except when I chose the others to see what the endings would look like).

[MaximizedAction]

estebanus wrote...

johnj1979 wrote...

Does anyone know what is going on in Mass Effect 3

The reapers are attacking the galaxy, and you play the role of Commander Shepard. You must take back Earth and defeat the reapers once and for all.

Does that answer your question?

Nah, that's what we're told will happen. His question was about what was really going on (I guess).

I'm not sure if anyone can actually answer that, but this thread offers IT as an approximate answer, it's still unclear to me what was really going on.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 11 août 2012 - 04:45 .

[masster blaster]

TheConstantOne wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...
Yes, and I would actually say that the "wake up" scene depicts Shepard on the Citadel but the ceiling of the control room caved in (or perhaps he "sleep walked" to a new region).  I'd imagine that there is an intense battle on the Citadel going on against Reapers forces.  That or, again, Shepard actually does use the control panel and the Crucible's activation damages the room's superstructure (without detonating it in an extremely powerful explosion)

Really? The breath scene has rebar and concrete blocks with the same markings as everything in London and Bioware still chose the bombed Citadel to look like that? This would be just lame trolling.

Not necessarily.  I remember that, way back in mark 1, someone did a presentation that showed that all of the rubble in the breath scene are present on the Citadel.  I'd give a link if I knew where to find it.

So, it seems to me that there is enough room for doubt to argue both ways here: Shepard could be in London or on the Citadel

Whaaaaaat?????

[estebanus]

MaximizedAction wrote...

estebanus wrote...

johnj1979 wrote...

Does anyone know what is going on in Mass Effect 3

The reapers are attacking the galaxy, and you play the role of Commander Shepard. You must take back Earth and defeat the reapers once and for all.

Does that answer your question?

Nah, that's what we're told will happen. His question was about what was really going on (I guess).

I'm not sure if anyone can actually answer that, but this thread offers IT as an approximate answer, it's still unclear to me what was really going on.

I probably shoulda made it obvious that I was being sarcastic.

[estebanus]

masster blaster wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...
Yes, and I would actually say that the "wake up" scene depicts Shepard on the Citadel but the ceiling of the control room caved in (or perhaps he "sleep walked" to a new region).  I'd imagine that there is an intense battle on the Citadel going on against Reapers forces.  That or, again, Shepard actually does use the control panel and the Crucible's activation damages the room's superstructure (without detonating it in an extremely powerful explosion)

Really? The breath scene has rebar and concrete blocks with the same markings as everything in London and Bioware still chose the bombed Citadel to look like that? This would be just lame trolling.

Not necessarily.  I remember that, way back in mark 1, someone did a presentation that showed that all of the rubble in the breath scene are present on the Citadel.  I'd give a link if I knew where to find it.

So, it seems to me that there is enough room for doubt to argue both ways here: Shepard could be in London or on the Citadel

Whaaaaaat?????

You didn't know? T'was Epyon who did that.

[smokingotter1]

estebanus wrote...

johnj1979 wrote...

Does anyone know what is going on in Mass Effect 3

The reapers are attacking the galaxy, and you play the role of Commander Shepard. You must take back Earth and defeat the reapers once and for all.

Does that answer your question?

Mass Effect 3 is a video game about Anderson being born in London.

[masster blaster]

estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...
Yes, and I would actually say that the "wake up" scene depicts Shepard on the Citadel but the ceiling of the control room caved in (or perhaps he "sleep walked" to a new region).  I'd imagine that there is an intense battle on the Citadel going on against Reapers forces.  That or, again, Shepard actually does use the control panel and the Crucible's activation damages the room's superstructure (without detonating it in an extremely powerful explosion)

Really? The breath scene has rebar and concrete blocks with the same markings as everything in London and Bioware still chose the bombed Citadel to look like that? This would be just lame trolling.

Not necessarily.  I remember that, way back in mark 1, someone did a presentation that showed that all of the rubble in the breath scene are present on the Citadel.  I'd give a link if I knew where to find it.

So, it seems to me that there is enough room for doubt to argue both ways here: Shepard could be in London or on the Citadel

Whaaaaaat?????

You didn't know? T'was Epyon who did that.

I wasn't here for that, and where can I find it?

[MaximizedAction]

TheConstantOne wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...
Yes, and I would actually say that the "wake up" scene depicts Shepard on the Citadel but the ceiling of the control room caved in (or perhaps he "sleep walked" to a new region).  I'd imagine that there is an intense battle on the Citadel going on against Reapers forces.  That or, again, Shepard actually does use the control panel and the Crucible's activation damages the room's superstructure (without detonating it in an extremely powerful explosion)

Really? The breath scene has rebar and concrete blocks with the same markings as everything in London and Bioware still chose the bombed Citadel to look like that? This would be just lame trolling.

Not necessarily.  I remember that, way back in mark 1, someone did a presentation that showed that all of the rubble in the breath scene are present on the Citadel.  I'd give a link if I knew where to find it.

So, it seems to me that there is enough room for doubt to argue both ways here: Shepard could be in London or on the Citadel

No, of course it's possible. But in my opinion, it's unlikely.
Yes, it is possible because Patrick Weekes argued on PAX that not everyone has to die on the Citadel after the explosion and yes, the EC shows us that it's not entirely destroyed.

You're also suggesting that the stuff in the breath scene is from the roof of the control room. This means that Shepard either got magically beamed down in the right second or he never went up there in the first place. But that again suggests that something was not real about the ending and if you're ready to accept that, then what's to say against the whole Citadel:The Return being a hallucination set in London?

That's the damned thing about the possibility of a hallucination, we can't know for sure what is really going on, but the stranger the scene the less likely it should be.

[estebanus]

masster blaster wrote...
I wasn't here for that, and where can I find it?

Somewhere between page 500 and 1500.

[masster blaster]

estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...
I wasn't here for that, and where can I find it?

Somewhere between page 500 and 1500.

The first thread, or the part 2?




Could this be where Shepard is at in the breath scene?

Modifié par masster blaster, 11 août 2012 - 05:00 .

[MaximizedAction]

estebanus wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

estebanus wrote...

johnj1979 wrote...

Does anyone know what is going on in Mass Effect 3

The reapers are attacking the galaxy, and you play the role of Commander Shepard. You must take back Earth and defeat the reapers once and for all.

Does that answer your question?

Nah, that's what we're told will happen. His question was about what was really going on (I guess).

I'm not sure if anyone can actually answer that, but this thread offers IT as an approximate answer, it's still unclear to me what was really going on.

I probably shoulda made it obvious that I was being sarcastic.

Man, I'm such an Anti-Joke Chicken.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 11 août 2012 - 04:57 .