80611 réponses à ce sujet

[smokingotter1]

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

Also besides being in a pseudo prayer position. It could also resemble Shepard trying to push herself up. It could symbolize resistance of a great force or Shepard trying to find the strength to break free and "get up again."

Edit: on a speculation roll here. Otter five! 

IT Train all aboard choo choo.... I'll end with one of my classics about IT. IT is not only about indoctrination, its about changing the way you view the world, you the player, what Shepard is fighting is a basic fight humanity has been fighting for years (and still with the Arab Spring) it's the concept that people need to submit to one central authority... one sovereign. Hobbes made the case that we need a King or we'll have chaos... the cataylst portrays himself as a solution to chaos:


"Hey guys, remember when I showed you how the decision chamber music sounds like a train?



Did some googling Here's what I found:

"Train
of thought refers to the interconnection in the sequence of ideas
expressed during a connected ]discourse or thought, as well as the
sequence itself, especially in discussion how this sequence leads from
one idea to another."

...term "train of thoughts" was introduced
and elaborated as early as in 1651 by Thomas Hobbes in his Leviathan"
(Leviathan is a book)

On Leviathan: "Hobbes argues for a social
contract and rule by an absolute sovereign. He wrote that chaos or civil
war – situations identified with a state of nature and the famous motto
Bellum omnium contra omnes ("the war of all against all") – could only
be averted by strong central government."

Funny, the reapers view
themselves as the solution to chaos. Anyway kind of sleep deprived so
I'm having trouble making sense of it. Probably just a coincidence."

Did that all really happen? (No)
Some of the details have been lost in time (DLC is coming)
One more story.
Massception.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

While we are talking the symbolism of the alst few scenes, i had this idea recently. What if the entire place from Shepard waking up on the Citadel to and including the area where Shepard confronts TIM is a representation of Sheaprds mind. It is not just a projection pierced together from Shepards memories, it is a direct mirror of the state of his mind.

The first room which seems very much like the Collector base is the Indoctrination in Shepards mind and it extends even beyond the room in the form of bodies on the bridge. It is also here we get Anderson´s comment on the walls rearanging themselves which could be read as Shepards mind beeing altered by the Indoctrination.

The bridge itself is the connection between the parts of Shepards mind and the lightning capacitors above could be seen as the brain activity.

We then ascend into the part of Sheaprds mind which is still resisting Indoctrination as represented by the place Anderson is. It is a open, beatiful spot, a sanctuary. This would also provide an interesting call back to Benezia about her retaining a part of her unindoctrinated self within her. The part with asecnding to get to the area could also be seen as it beeing Shepards higher mental abilities which are still completely free, while the lower mental fucntions are beeing corrupted by Indoctrination.

Essentially it could all be seen as Shepard fighting back against Indoctrination by retreating to a non indoctrinated part of his mind...but could also add the more sinister bit as Shepard could be opening this non indoctrianted part of his mind to Indoctrination by leading it (represented by TIM appearing behind Shepard) to the non Indoctrinated part.

Just a fun thought.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 11 août 2012 - 08:14 .

[smokingotter1]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

While we are talking the symbolism of the alst few scenes, i had this idea recently. What if the entire place from Shepard waking up on the Citadel to and including the area where Shepard confronts TIM is a representation of Sheaprds mind. It is not just a projection pierced together from Shepards memories, it is a direct mirror of the state of his mind.

The first room which seems very much like the Collector base is the Indoctrination in Shepards mind and it extends even beyond the room in the form of bodies on the bridge. It is also here we get Anderson´s comment on the walls rearanging themselves which could be read as Shepards mind beeing altered by the Indoctrination.

The bridge itself is the connection between the parts of Shepards mind and the lightning capacitors above could be seen as the brain activity.

We then ascend into the part of Sheaprds mind which is still resisting Indoctrination as represented by the place Anderson is. It is a open, beatiful spot, a sanctuary. This would also provide an interesting call back to Benezia about her retaining a part of her unindoctrinated self within her. The part with asecnding to get to the area could also be seen as it beeing Shepards higher mental abilities which are still completely free, while the lower mental fucntions are beeing corrupted by Indoctrination.

What is happening in the citadel is exactly what is happening in Shepards limbic system of the brain
red hallway=blood vessels
rooms changing= synaptic pathways being rewritten
Shadowbroker ship parts= neurons firing
TIM/Anderson/Shepard= Freudian trio
Opening up the citadel arms= opening Shepard's eyes

Eyes are windows into the soul, when Shepard passes out and accends to the orbitofrontal cortex ...the part of the brain that controls decision making:wizard:

Just like Shepard being in the Geth consensus the end of ME3 is taking place in Shepard's brain. Abstract with real world consequences.

[masster blaster]

smokingotter1 wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

While we are talking the symbolism of the alst few scenes, i had this idea recently. What if the entire place from Shepard waking up on the Citadel to and including the area where Shepard confronts TIM is a representation of Sheaprds mind. It is not just a projection pierced together from Shepards memories, it is a direct mirror of the state of his mind.

The first room which seems very much like the Collector base is the Indoctrination in Shepards mind and it extends even beyond the room in the form of bodies on the bridge. It is also here we get Anderson´s comment on the walls rearanging themselves which could be read as Shepards mind beeing altered by the Indoctrination.

The bridge itself is the connection between the parts of Shepards mind and the lightning capacitors above could be seen as the brain activity.

We then ascend into the part of Sheaprds mind which is still resisting Indoctrination as represented by the place Anderson is. It is a open, beatiful spot, a sanctuary. This would also provide an interesting call back to Benezia about her retaining a part of her unindoctrinated self within her. The part with asecnding to get to the area could also be seen as it beeing Shepards higher mental abilities which are still completely free, while the lower mental fucntions are beeing corrupted by Indoctrination.

What is happening in the citadel is exactly what is happening in Shepards limbic system of the brain
red hallway=blood vessels
rooms changing= synaptic pathways being rewritten
Shadowbroker ship parts= neurons firing
TIM/Anderson/Shepard= Freudian trio
Opening up the citadel arms= opening Shepard's eyes

Eyes are windows into the soul, when Shepard passes out and accends to the orbitofrontal cortex ...the part of the brain that controls decision making:wizard:

Just like Shepard being in the Geth consensus the end of ME3 is taking place in Shepard's brain. Abstract with real world consequences.

Otter, and the relays firing, will either let the Indoctrination it,
Control, and Synthesis, to the galaxy( The Brain) and the Reapers have
Shepard, or Destroy ( kills the Indoctrination process, since the husk
are being wiped out, and the Reapers are dying, hence Indoctrination is
being irradiated. Also relays firing ( Shepard's lymphatic system) the
Galaxy ( Shepard's brain)

Also Otter, the chamber is the train of thought, the final wall, if you say.

Modifié par masster blaster, 11 août 2012 - 08:23 .

[MaximizedAction]

smokingotter1 wrote...

What is happening in the citadel is exactly what is happening in Shepards limbic system of the brain
red hallway=blood vessels
rooms changing= synaptic pathways being rewritten
Shadowbroker ship parts= neurons firing
TIM/Anderson/Shepard= Freudian trio
Opening up the citadel arms= opening Shepard's eyes

Eyes are windows into the soul, when Shepard passes out and accends to the orbitofrontal cortex ...the part of the brain that controls decision making:wizard:

Just like Shepard being in the Geth consensus the end of ME3 is taking place in Shepard's brain. Abstract with real world consequences.

Consequences will less galactic bearing, hopefully.

[smokingotter1]

masster blaster wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

While we are talking the symbolism of the alst few scenes, i had this idea recently. What if the entire place from Shepard waking up on the Citadel to and including the area where Shepard confronts TIM is a representation of Sheaprds mind. It is not just a projection pierced together from Shepards memories, it is a direct mirror of the state of his mind.

The first room which seems very much like the Collector base is the Indoctrination in Shepards mind and it extends even beyond the room in the form of bodies on the bridge. It is also here we get Anderson´s comment on the walls rearanging themselves which could be read as Shepards mind beeing altered by the Indoctrination.

The bridge itself is the connection between the parts of Shepards mind and the lightning capacitors above could be seen as the brain activity.

We then ascend into the part of Sheaprds mind which is still resisting Indoctrination as represented by the place Anderson is. It is a open, beatiful spot, a sanctuary. This would also provide an interesting call back to Benezia about her retaining a part of her unindoctrinated self within her. The part with asecnding to get to the area could also be seen as it beeing Shepards higher mental abilities which are still completely free, while the lower mental fucntions are beeing corrupted by Indoctrination.

What is happening in the citadel is exactly what is happening in Shepards limbic system of the brain
red hallway=blood vessels
rooms changing= synaptic pathways being rewritten
Shadowbroker ship parts= neurons firing
TIM/Anderson/Shepard= Freudian trio
Opening up the citadel arms= opening Shepard's eyes

Eyes are windows into the soul, when Shepard passes out and accends to the orbitofrontal cortex ...the part of the brain that controls decision making:wizard:

Just like Shepard being in the Geth consensus the end of ME3 is taking place in Shepard's brain. Abstract with real world consequences.

Otter, and the relays firing, will either let the Indoctrination it,
Control, and Synthesis, to the galaxy( The Brain) and the Reapers have
Shepard, or Destroy ( kills the Indoctrination process, since the husk
are being wiped out, and the Reapers are dying, hence Indoctrination is
being irradiated. Also relays firing ( Shepard's lymphatic system) the
Galaxy ( Shepard's brain)

Also Otter, the chamber is the train of thought, the final wall, if you say.

Arrvial happens in the VIPER nebela, Vipers are known for their poisons that can paralyze an animal. Indoctrination is a poison that is spreading across Shepard's mind much like the crucible firing and spreading the energy throught he relays.

The Normandy "running" from the fight is the last remnant of Shepard's free mind trying to escape, lands on "dream planet" full of life (unlike Shepards nightmares with the dead trees) much like the haven that Matriach Benezia had to create to keep her mind free. She said fighting indoctrination is like pounding on glass, the last scene we see of Shepard is he's shooting a glass tube trying to escape the prison the reapers put him into.

There you have it the ending to ME3 explained.

Modifié par smokingotter1, 11 août 2012 - 08:28 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

smokingotter1 wrote...

Hold on I'm watching cat videos and such, watch this it'll help pass the time as I shift though my posts.

Can't find it, I'll just make the same argument about overlay... my point on that post is that on every level you are being watched by Harbinger, it's subtle but there

Notice the positioning:



Again when you arrive at the "citadel" same damn position, same color, only light that is Harbinger eyes orange:



Every level it gets more abstract but the positioning remains the same, he's there looking at you.



When I saw that I wanted to stand up and applaud, brilliant Casey and Mac I love it:wizard:

Interesting... let me check out the control room scene... xD

[masster blaster]

smokingotter1 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

While we are talking the symbolism of the alst few scenes, i had this idea recently. What if the entire place from Shepard waking up on the Citadel to and including the area where Shepard confronts TIM is a representation of Sheaprds mind. It is not just a projection pierced together from Shepards memories, it is a direct mirror of the state of his mind.

The first room which seems very much like the Collector base is the Indoctrination in Shepards mind and it extends even beyond the room in the form of bodies on the bridge. It is also here we get Anderson´s comment on the walls rearanging themselves which could be read as Shepards mind beeing altered by the Indoctrination.

The bridge itself is the connection between the parts of Shepards mind and the lightning capacitors above could be seen as the brain activity.

We then ascend into the part of Sheaprds mind which is still resisting Indoctrination as represented by the place Anderson is. It is a open, beatiful spot, a sanctuary. This would also provide an interesting call back to Benezia about her retaining a part of her unindoctrinated self within her. The part with asecnding to get to the area could also be seen as it beeing Shepards higher mental abilities which are still completely free, while the lower mental fucntions are beeing corrupted by Indoctrination.

What is happening in the citadel is exactly what is happening in Shepards limbic system of the brain
red hallway=blood vessels
rooms changing= synaptic pathways being rewritten
Shadowbroker ship parts= neurons firing
TIM/Anderson/Shepard= Freudian trio
Opening up the citadel arms= opening Shepard's eyes

Eyes are windows into the soul, when Shepard passes out and accends to the orbitofrontal cortex ...the part of the brain that controls decision making:wizard:

Just like Shepard being in the Geth consensus the end of ME3 is taking place in Shepard's brain. Abstract with real world consequences.

Otter, and the relays firing, will either let the Indoctrination it,
Control, and Synthesis, to the galaxy( The Brain) and the Reapers have
Shepard, or Destroy ( kills the Indoctrination process, since the husk
are being wiped out, and the Reapers are dying, hence Indoctrination is
being irradiated. Also relays firing ( Shepard's lymphatic system) the
Galaxy ( Shepard's brain)

Also Otter, the chamber is the train of thought, the final wall, if you say.

Arrvial happens in the VIPER nebela, Vipers are known for their poisons that can paralyze an animal. Indoctrination is a poison that is spreading across Shepard's mind much like the crucible firing and spreading the energy throught he relays.

The Normandy "running" from the fight is the last remnant of Shepard's free mind trying to escape, lands on "dream planet" full of life (unlike Shepards nightmares with the dead trees) much like the haven that Matriach Benezia had to create to keep her mind free. She said fighting indoctrination is like pounding on glass, the last scene we see of Shepard is he's shooting a glass tube trying to escape the prison the reapers put him into.

There you have it the ending to ME3 explained.

hence why you shot glass in Destroy get it.

[SML93]

hey been lurking since the second thread, and just a quick question does shepard actually fit on the little platform sending him to the decision chamber?  The platform looks like it only fits the top half, and a shadow appears showing only his/her torso.

Modifié par SML93, 11 août 2012 - 08:35 .

[Hrothdane]

I've been thinking about the low EMS endings, particularly destroy, because how they seem inconsistent with IT. If the Reapers are trying to indoctrinate Shepard, why would there be a scenario where they only offer destroy? Why does EMS have anything to do with it at all? Here's my theories.

I think the key is actually in what happens right before the full-on hallucination caused by the Harbinger beam. On low-EMS destroy, the two squadmates Shepard brings die. This tragedy changes Shepard's entire state of mind, making him/her lose hope. Therefore, he/she imagines the Crucible as being horribly damaged and causing untold destruction throughout the galaxy. The Reapers have no need to fully indoctrinate Shepard because his/her will is already broken. A Shepard that has "let fear compromise who [he/she] is" by giving TIM the Collector base falls easily to indoctrination in low EMS control because he/she will take anything to avoid more deaths at that point.

The question then remains: why offer synthesis only at high EMS? To reach high enough EMS for synthesis, Shepard had to have utilized excellent diplomatic and/or coercive skills and essentially unite the galaxy by force of will. None of Shepard's close friends died during the beam run, so he/she still has hope. The Reapers know that Shepard may wake up should he/she choose destroy and that he/she is unlikely to choose control in a more sound state of mind. Therefore, they create the synthesis option as a seemingly ideal solution. They appeal to Shepard's desire for peace by saying no more will die (besides Shepard), his/her ego by acting as though this new peaceful solution is only possible thanks to him/her, and Shepard's morals by acting as though synthesis was a kind of moral imperative and inevitability that he/she must accept. He pushes synthesis from all angles because a high EMS Shepard's mind has a lot of fight left in it.

[Chriz Tah Fah]

Hrothdane wrote...

I've been thinking about the low EMS endings, particularly destroy, because how they seem inconsistent with IT. If the Reapers are trying to indoctrinate Shepard, why would there be a scenario where they only offer destroy? Why does EMS have anything to do with it at all? Here's my theories.

I think the key is actually in what happens right before the full-on hallucination caused by the Harbinger beam. On low-EMS destroy, the two squadmates Shepard brings die. This tragedy changes Shepard's entire state of mind, making him/her lose hope. Therefore, he/she imagines the Crucible as being horribly damaged and causing untold destruction throughout the galaxy. The Reapers have no need to fully indoctrinate Shepard because his/her will is already broken. A Shepard that has "let fear compromise who [he/she] is" by giving TIM the Collector base falls easily to indoctrination in low EMS control because he/she will take anything to avoid more deaths at that point.

The question then remains: why offer synthesis only at high EMS? To reach high enough EMS for synthesis, Shepard had to have utilized excellent diplomatic and/or coercive skills and essentially unite the galaxy by force of will. None of Shepard's close friends died during the beam run, so he/she still has hope. The Reapers know that Shepard may wake up should he/she choose destroy and that he/she is unlikely to choose control in a more sound state of mind. Therefore, they create the synthesis option as a seemingly ideal solution. They appeal to Shepard's desire for peace by saying no more will die (besides Shepard), his/her ego by acting as though this new peaceful solution is only possible thanks to him/her, and Shepard's morals by acting as though synthesis was a kind of moral imperative and inevitability that he/she must accept. He pushes synthesis from all angles because a high EMS Shepard's mind has a lot of fight left in it.

It is consistant with IT. With the overlay theory the reapers are sending Shepard to his/her death because Shepard is still getting hit by the beam. In this case Shepard would probably die in low EMS. The reason Shepard lives is because of the extra military.

The logic in the ending is skewed and the way EMS works and ending choices don't quite make sense. What DOES make sense though is a low EMS Shepard who saved the base is only allowed to pick control.

[Chriz Tah Fah]

Playing this one off...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

Hold on I'm watching cat videos and such, watch this it'll help pass the time as I shift though my posts.

Can't find it, I'll just make the same argument about overlay... my point on that post is that on every level you are being watched by Harbinger, it's subtle but there

Notice the positioning:



Again when you arrive at the "citadel" same damn position, same color, only light that is Harbinger eyes orange:



Every level it gets more abstract but the positioning remains the same, he's there looking at you.



When I saw that I wanted to stand up and applaud, brilliant Casey and Mac I love it[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

Interesting... let me check out the control room scene... xD

in the control room scene there is A LOT of orange. Could be symbolic that Harbinger is closing in on Shepard in a way that he is closer to taking over?

Modifié par Chriz Tah Fah, 11 août 2012 - 08:40 .

[MaximizedAction]

Here's the control room:


and


Notice the slightly off shadow of the console? The suggestion that Harbinger is watching makes even sense from the position he's standing in London with respect to the beam. (I'm sure this has already been suggested back in the old threads)

[Chriz Tah Fah]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Here's the control room:
*snip*


Notice the slightly off shadow of the console? The suggestion that Harbinger is watching makes even sense from the position he's standing in London with respect to the beam. (I'm sure this has already been suggested back in the old threads)

In case Maximized wasn't clear enough. The orange/yellow light cast from Harbinger's eyes would create a shadow facing that angle specifically. This would also connect to the fact that TIM and Anderson's shadows are ALWAYS facing opposite directions, this doesn't happen in real life, does it? It would show that the Anderson part of Shepard's mind is going against the reapers while the TIM part is with it.

Modifié par Chriz Tah Fah, 11 août 2012 - 08:49 .

[MaximizedAction]

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...
In case Maximized wasn't clear enough. The orange/yellow light cast from Harbinger's eyes would create a shadow facing that angle specifically. This would also connect to the fact that TIM and Anderson's shadows are ALWAYS facing opposite directions, this doesn't happen in real life? It would show that the Anderson part of Shepard's mind is going against the reapers while the TIM part is with it.

Thanks for clarifying.

Also, who needs real life when you can have this:



(and yes, those two shadows stay approximately constant throughout the whole convo. That is, until TIM dies, after that all shadows align with the console shadow, so slightly to the left.)

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 11 août 2012 - 08:54 .

[zigamortis]

Any news or interesting speculations in the last few days?

[Chriz Tah Fah]

zigamortis wrote...

Any news or interesting speculations in the last few days?

You will not have to look far. Just go back one page to 351.

[ebuchala]

smokingotter1 wrote...

Great catch... also the posture is a dead giveway

Shepard after meeting Reaper object Rho



and



Only times Shepard's in that position.

You missed one:



Overlord DLC (I just played it again recently so it's fresh), when the VI is controlling Shep.

[masster blaster]

Now this reminds me of the old days in the first IT thread, when it was speculations galor, and. The middle, of Mark 2 IT thread.

[TSA_383]

From my thread (spoilers etc):
Some people just have really odd logic.

Optimystic_X wrote...

I see nothing in this "leak" that hurts Synthesis. He says Leviathan was a result of his "solution" (i.e. Reaping), not a result of Synthesis, which he admits he had no idea how to accomplish until the Crucible was done.

What is this? I don't even....

[MaximizedAction]

masster blaster wrote...

Now this reminds me of the old days in the first IT thread, when it was speculations galor, and. The middle, of Mark 2 IT thread.

Back when the only off topicness was lex0r's motivationals and gamerpoop. Ah, good times! But we're getting there...

[masster blaster]

Otter you missed another part when Shepard is all on fours. When Shepard wakes up after Harbinger hits Shepard, Shepard walks a few steps and falls on all fours, and it's a long pause.

[DoomsdayDevice]

ebuchala wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

Great catch... also the posture is a dead giveway

Shepard after meeting Reaper object Rho

*snip*

and

*snip*

Only times Shepard's in that position.

You missed one:

*snip*

Overlord DLC (I just played it again recently so it's fresh), when the VI is controlling Shep.

WHOA

mind = blown

Synthetics like seeing humans on their knees...

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 11 août 2012 - 09:13 .

[ebuchala]

SML93 wrote...

hey been lurking since the second thread, and just a quick question does shepard actually fit on the little platform sending him to the decision chamber?  The platform looks like it only fits the top half, and a shadow appears showing only his/her torso.

Heheh--this always irritated/concerned me. Everytime that platform rises, I expect Shepard's hand to get chopped off when it reaches the top since the platform seems to fit seemlessly into the floor in the Catalyst room.

[CoolioThane]

Some people can't face the truth