80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Sero303]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Sero303 wrote...

2+2= 22

*facepalm* How could I argue with that math? It makes total sense. 

Perception is everything my friend

[spotlessvoid]

To answer the question regarding why bother indoctrinate Shepard as succinctly as possible:

Reapers want this process as sanitary as possible. As few Reaper deaths as possible, and as many living humans as possible. Having an indoctrinated Shepard on their side opens up many possibilities in that regard

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 14 août 2012 - 05:47 .

[spotlessvoid]

Of course, the versions of IT claiming that the end is actually occurring outside Shepards mind but has varying levels of hallucination overlaid has another motive altogether. Influence Shepards final decision to not destroy the Reapers

[spotlessvoid]

Question: If the Citadel is destroyed, so is starchild right?

[FifthBeatle]

I've been searching the threads, but has anyone discussed the noises you hear when seeing the child in the vent? While there are a lot of ambient noises going on throughout the opening, the noise you hear just after the child tells you he doesn't need your help and again when the camera pans back to the empty vent are unlike any other.

In terms of IT, they do sound somewhat like Reaper noises, which would lend credence to the idea that the child isn't real.

[demersel]

FifthBeatle wrote...

I've been searching the threads, but has anyone discussed the noises you hear when seeing the child in the vent? While there are a lot of ambient noises going on throughout the opening, the noise you hear just after the child tells you he doesn't need your help and again when the camera pans back to the empty vent are unlike any other.

In terms of IT, they do sound somewhat like Reaper noises, which would lend credence to the idea that the child isn't real.

We've been over that countless times - the child isn't real. It's a reaper-induced hallucination. Right from the start. Period. 

[spotlessvoid]

@demersel

Although I happen to share your view on this, I don't think we can claim that it's been indisputably proven

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 14 août 2012 - 06:18 .

[FifthBeatle]

demersel wrote...

FifthBeatle wrote...

I've been searching the threads, but has anyone discussed the noises you hear when seeing the child in the vent? While there are a lot of ambient noises going on throughout the opening, the noise you hear just after the child tells you he doesn't need your help and again when the camera pans back to the empty vent are unlike any other.

In terms of IT, they do sound somewhat like Reaper noises, which would lend credence to the idea that the child isn't real.

We've been over that countless times - the child isn't real. It's a reaper-induced hallucination. Right from the start. Period. 

I get it. The disappearing garden, the long run he would have to make, the kid walking through the locked door, the warning sign, Anderson not seeing him, etc. But, the lawyer in me wants more proof since all of those can be explained with either the "lazy devs" argument. I am curious if anyone has specifically disected the sounds, since they are quite distinct. We know that the sound guys put in a lot of "easter eggs" throughout the game, and I know that people on this thread have gone to great lengths to analyze them. 

[demersel]

spotlessvoid wrote...

@demersel

Although I happen to share your view on this, I don't think we can claim that it's been indisputably proven

We can claim everything we want. ))) That's the definition of speculation. 

Modifié par demersel, 14 août 2012 - 06:23 .

[demersel]

FifthBeatle wrote...

 I am curious if anyone has specifically disected the sounds, since they are quite distinct. We know that the sound guys put in a lot of "easter eggs" throughout the game, and I know that people on this thread have gone to great lengths to analyze them. 

I think it is wrong to consider just the evidence in the sound as solid. And i also think we can agree, that ME dev team - are anything but lazy. 

[spotlessvoid]

Demersel you are coming off like a petulant child. "I do what I want." Why have rational debate when you can make absolute proclamations, right?

[spotlessvoid]

Speculation: expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence. That means the opposite of claiming something absolute fact

[FifthBeatle]

demersel wrote...

FifthBeatle wrote...

 I am curious if anyone has specifically disected the sounds, since they are quite distinct. We know that the sound guys put in a lot of "easter eggs" throughout the game, and I know that people on this thread have gone to great lengths to analyze them. 

I think it is wrong to consider just the evidence in the sound as solid. And i also think we can agree, that ME dev team - are anything but lazy. 

I agree with both statements. Last night was just the first time I noticed those noises and was wondering if I am hearing things or if it was a sign of something larger. 

[Hrothdane]

demersel wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

@demersel

Although I happen to share your view on this, I don't think we can claim that it's been indisputably proven

We can claim everything we want. ))) That's the definition of speculation. 

Despite what others may think, we do not market in baseless or illogical speculation. We have to approach speculation from a logical point of view based on evidence and peer discourse. We don't have the tools to prove anything deductively, so we have to view everything through a skeptical lens. We can entertain baseless speculation as a method to give us different perspective, but unless evidence emerges to support said perspective, it must be discarded.

[DJBare]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

I think a lot of the negativity IT receives is because many don't understand it. Instead of starting from the beginning and understanding the theory, they pop in at like page 3000 and read up on whatever small bit of speculation were discussing and think: "This is it? This is what indoctrination theory is about?"

I think they understand it pretty well, and that's the reason they don't like it, a dream sequence leaves an opening to retconn things, while I am definitely on board with IT, I'm more of a mind now that Bioware are using it to sell MP, people are looking for answers because the SP gave none.

[masster blaster]

masster blaster wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Okay, I have been thinking, when Shepard is in a dream state, the Space battle is happening in real life, until Shepard meet's the catalyst.

Now when Shepard goes up the beam, We see the space battle, but then we see Hackett get a mysterious report about SOMEONE made it to the Citadel, not Shepard, or Anderson.

I say not Shepard, or Anderson because Hackett only says " Holy sh** he/she did it",. Now if you think about it, Hackett could have gotten false report, that SOMEONE made it to the Citadel. I say this because We have all talk about Coats either being a Reaper agent, or Cerberus agent. Maybe he sent Hackett a false report, and said that Shepard got some one up to the Citadel.

Now when Shepard wakes up on the Citadel, he/she is actually dreaming. things that Shepard has seen, and are being used, to Indoctrinated Shepard/ makes his/her mind more comfortable, so Shepard does not know that he/she is being indoctrinated.

Now once Shepard opens the citadel in his/her dream, the Citadel opens to allow the Crucible to dock. Now here's the thing.Once this happence Shepard is actually getting a radio transmission form Hackett back on Earth, that is why Hackett ask Shepard" nothing is happening. it's got to be something on YOUR end" Now Shepard could hardly speak,since he/she is bleeding out, and is starting to wake up. Now once Shepard passes out for blood lose. Harbinger fixes Shepard up.

To Continue the Indoctrination process, but is now over leaping reality, with a digital program.
The Reaper program. that is meant for indoctrination.
once Shepard picks Destroy, and only Destroy, Shepard blows up the Conduit side, not the whole thing, but the thing causing the indoctrination.

Hence why we get the breath scene. The things that we see in all the endings, are just all an illusion, nothing more, but maybe the Destroy ending epilogue is real, but we have to finish the Reapers for good, once Shepard wakes up, and maybe we will see more than the Destroy epilogue provides us.

Any thoughts?

TSA, what do you think. Does this also help to what you are talking about.

OR anybody.

[DJBare]

masster blaster, the post is quite large and hard to miss, if folk want to respond to it they will, please don't quote the whole text trying to get others to respond.

[demersel]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Demersel you are coming off like a petulant child. "I do what I want." Why have rational debate when you can make absolute proclamations, right?

Exactly! In't it just the thing that people on the other side of the IT argument do? Why should i bother in having a rational debate with people making absolute proclamations? Too much typing, too little point. 

Hrothdane wrote...

Despite what others may think, we do not market in baseless or illogical speculation. We have to approach speculation from a logical point of view based on evidence and peer discourse. We don't have the tools to prove anything deductively, so we have to view everything through a skeptical lens. We can entertain baseless speculation as a method to give us different perspective, but unless evidence emerges to support said perspective, it must be discarded.

I'm all for it. Let's have a go at it. - This line of conversation started with the question about the scenes with the child in the beginning, and presense of reaper noises there. 

What is your opinion on the topic? Do you consider the child in those scenes real or hallucination? 

Modifié par demersel, 14 août 2012 - 07:16 .

[Dr JaMiN]

Sero303 wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Sero303 wrote...

2+2= 22

*facepalm* How could I argue with that math? It makes total sense. 

Perception is everything my friend

That's very well put. The answers are right in front of us.

[masster blaster]

SorryDJ. That was from last night, and I forgot to get rid of those, so sorry.

[spotlessvoid]

Demersel you missed the point

I agree with your opinion, but disagree that it's anything but opinion at the moment. Claiming it's been established as absolute fact reduces our credibility and is flawed logic, reason alone to refrain

[spotlessvoid]

DJ Bare

That's an interesting viewpoint. Do you think they'll attempt to further cash in with IT related DLC, or do you think they're just not willing to discourage part of their fanbase while simultaneously encouraging them to heavily invest time into MP?

[TJBartlemus]

Interesting find. When talking with James the first time in the shuttle bay, Shepard looked right at the camera. James was like: You want to talk to me? And Shep was like: It's my ship. I go where I want, and I talk to who ever I want. (Renegade. For Paragon it's the same message but nicer.) Really strange. 0_0

[spotlessvoid]

Demersel

A poster on this very page once very politely suggested I discontinue stooping to level of the trolls in the rampant flame wars in the original thread. Although I failed to immediately heed his words of wisdom, I since have taken them to heart. I think his message clearly applies to this situation. Yes, many users vehemently discourage any IT related speculation. Yes, many make huge generalizations, passing them off as undisputed fact. You don't have to be like them. This is the IT thread. We're ALL about open, honest discourse and rigorous self analysis (mostly)

[MaximizedAction]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Interesting find. When talking with James the first time in the shuttle bay, Shepard looked right at the camera. James was like: You want to talk to me? And Shep was like: It's my ship. I go where I want, and I talk to who ever I want. (Renegade. For Paragon it's the same message but nicer.) Really strange. 0_0

That particular moment is funny! Very 80's like "This is my ship! *look back at camera for no reason*"

But yeah, there are a lot of moments where Shep seems to be looking at the cam -- can't remember if there were equally many moments in ME2.

If not, then they must've added them deliberately, either for the easter eggs or with the intention of adding to that connection to the player by breaking the 4th wall. Either way, I like them!