80611 réponses à ce sujet

[DoomsdayDevice]

smokingotter1 wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

I picked destroy on my first playthrough. Basically because that's what I
came there to do, and because I didn't trust the kid who so
conveniently looked like that kid back on earth. However, it wasn't an
easy choice.

When the time came to make the decision I paused the
game. I must have sat there for like ten minutes, pondering the
implications of what I just heard. Then when I unpaused the game, I
suddenly realized that control looked blue and destroy looked red. I
didn't immediately realize this was manipulation though... it simply
confused the hell out of me.

I remember walking to destroy very
reluctantly. I was playing my original 100% paragon Shepard, one who
never -ever- gave in to a single renegade interrupt or dialogue option,
and it appalled me to some degree that my ultimate decision was going to
be the renegade option. So I was -really- hesitating. But then I
thought about what the kid said about control, and I just couldn't bring
myself to think that I could control the Reapers... after all, that's
what TIM wanted. I just didn't trust it, and went for the red.

Synthesis
I never really gave much consideration, it sounded so ridiculous. I did
wonder if this option was meant to represent the 'neutral' option, and
if the point of the game was that the truth was in the middle, so to
speak. But I quickly rejected that notion.

I think I saw a poll (non-scientific mind you so take this with a grain of salt) where the VAST majority of Mass Effect players play paragon. The ending to ME3 was probably created to manipulate as many people as they could Also they probably figured pure renegades (esp those of you who shot Mordin, shame on you!) wouldn't really bat an eye about killing off the geth or Edi to complete the story.

EDIT: Also it's a neat twist, trying to be the good guy/gal gets you indoctrinated but being a complete jerk leave's your mind free.

Yeah, exactly! That must have been my first thought when I realized what was going on in the ending! =)

[halbert986]

Regardless of how true IT is or is not, I whole heartedly believe they switched the colors just for that reason.

I always played a balanced shepard, I felt adhering to one doctrine based on so called "morality" was absurd and I assessed each situation as I saw fit. It held me back from some high level conversation options occasionally in 1 and 2 though. And that's why I love the new reputation system. The renegade dialog for ending the Geth-Quarian war is perfect, the paragon one is just stupid... And yet when I came to the end, I still stupidly thought the red one must be bad. And since this new reputation thing was supposed to be all the rage green must be the best possible outcome. I didn't want to kill EDI. That was the main reason I didn't pick destroy. I took everything at face value. But after I had time to think about it, things didn't add up.

[smokingotter1]

halbert986 wrote...

Regardless of how true IT is or is not, I whole heartedly believe they switched the colors just for that reason.

I always played a balanced shepard, I felt adhering to one doctrine based on so called "morality" was absurd and I assessed each situation as I saw fit. It held me back from some high level conversation options occasionally in 1 and 2 though. And that's why I love the new reputation system. The renegade dialog for ending the Geth-Quarian war is perfect, the paragon one is just stupid... And yet when I came to the end, I still stupidly thought the red one must be bad. And since this new reputation thing was supposed to be all the rage green must be the best possible outcome. I didn't want to kill EDI. That was the main reason I didn't pick destroy. I took everything at face value. But after I had time to think about it, things didn't add up.

And if you think about it non of the villians are pure evil (except the reapers). The illusive man had extremely loose ethical boundaries, but it was still all about saving humanity. Saren was convinced the only way to save the galaxy was to submit to the reapers.

At the end of ME3 the reapers try to convince you that the crucible will kill all synthetics; an indoctrinated Shepard who will later reach the crucible with the belief that anything must be done to spare the Geth/Edi....when activating the crucible, or most likely sabatoging it when he/she gets there.

To quote the Dark Knight: "you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villian." ME3 in a nutshell.

[Gwyphon]

Way I see it is that when shep wakes up after going up the beam, s/he's been shock paddled (get the zap noise and the shake) and gets a brief period of consciousness where he hears Anderson (triyng to revive him) say "Shepard", then falls back into the dream. His brain then logically places Anderson some where in the dream and just rolls with it.

That's my interpretation at least.

[DoomsdayDevice]

halbert986 wrote...

Regardless of how true IT is or is not, I whole heartedly believe they switched the colors just for that reason.

Yeah, I'd even go as far as to say the fact that they switched the colours is a fact, and not just a speculation.

At the end of ME2, keeping the collector base was the renegade dialogue option. It was on the bottom of the dialogue wheel, it's the power hungry option, the one where you go along with what TIM wants. The paragon dialogue option (top of the dialogue wheel) was to destroy the collector base because the Reaper was an abomination.

At the end of ME3, the Reapers still are an abomination, they still process human beings into goo for their reproduction, nothing has changed in that respect. Yet here the power hungry option, the will to control them, the option that TIM would choose, is suddenly coded paragon blue. And to destroy the Reapers, who are still just as much of an abomination as before, is suddenly coded renegade red.

As far as I'm concerned this is rock solid proof of manipulation.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 15 août 2012 - 03:11 .

[CoolioThane]

Why are there piles of dead bodies when the reapers dont really leave piles of dead bodies at all?

[DoomsdayDevice]

Maybe they're all merely 'sleeping', having sweet dreams of the synthesis ending while being solidly hooked up to the 'Reaper Matrix'.

xD

[Leonia]

CoolioThane wrote...

Why are there piles of dead bodies when the reapers dont really leave piles of dead bodies at all?

Exactly. The Reapers either convert their victims to husks or indoctrinate them. Or turn them into Reaper-goo.  Something isn't adding up.

In fact, the major creepy factor with the whole Collector ship mission was mostly absent of bodies (minus the ones used for experiments). It was basically empty. Until Harbinger and pals sprung their trap.

Modifié par leonia42, 15 août 2012 - 03:46 .

[CoolioThane]

The beam turns you into husks (or whatever's behind the beam) and we ****ing fun into it like a group of retarded turtles. Yep, seems legit

[Arashi08]

smokingotter1 wrote...

halbert986 wrote...

Regardless of how true IT is or is not, I whole heartedly believe they switched the colors just for that reason.

I always played a balanced shepard, I felt adhering to one doctrine based on so called "morality" was absurd and I assessed each situation as I saw fit. It held me back from some high level conversation options occasionally in 1 and 2 though. And that's why I love the new reputation system. The renegade dialog for ending the Geth-Quarian war is perfect, the paragon one is just stupid... And yet when I came to the end, I still stupidly thought the red one must be bad. And since this new reputation thing was supposed to be all the rage green must be the best possible outcome. I didn't want to kill EDI. That was the main reason I didn't pick destroy. I took everything at face value. But after I had time to think about it, things didn't add up.

And if you think about it non of the villians are pure evil (except the reapers). The illusive man had extremely loose ethical boundaries, but it was still all about saving humanity. Saren was convinced the only way to save the galaxy was to submit to the reapers.

At the end of ME3 the reapers try to convince you that the crucible will kill all synthetics; an indoctrinated Shepard who will later reach the crucible with the belief that anything must be done to spare the Geth/Edi....when activating the crucible, or most likely sabatoging it when he/she gets there.

To quote the Dark Knight: "you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villian." ME3 in a nutshell.

It could be argued that the Reaper's aren't pure evil either.  I mean, they are just following their own cycle.  They just see us as vermin to be exterminated before we destroy ourselves, but they also want to "preserve" us.  To us, they certainly seem evil, but They undoubtedly don't see themselves that way. 

It is like if termites were sentient and we gassed one of their mounds they would definitely think we are evil, but we're just trying to keep them from eating away our houses, and they do that to survive.  The Reapers are so much more advanced than us they see us as termites (or bacteria, as Harbinger puts it.)  Yes their cycle doesn't really make sense logically, but I think they either do this just so they can survive and grow, or because they are essentially slaves to their programming, their cycle.

[CoolioThane]

Another interesting thing I learned whilst listening:

Alleys says something about Reapers and Africa "brutal events when Reapers don't stop to indoctrinate" ---> the writers clearly differentiate in the story how Reapers act on Earth when indoctrinating and when not.

London is clearly a zone of indoctrination (focusing on major cities and political/military leaders) therefore more evidence why bodies do not fit and that something is wrong.

[DextroDNA]

magnetite wrote...

So with the flashbacks and all, those are only people who have died correct? I saw Garrus in mine, but he walked out after the crash, and his name wasn't on the memorial plaque in the Extended Cut.

No, it shows people of importance. Garrus would've only be shown if you romanced him or you didn't romance anyone and he was your best buddy.

[Payaso323]

CoolioThane wrote...

Why are there piles of dead bodies when the reapers dont really leave piles of dead bodies at all?

Now that I think of it.. I don't recall there being ANY dead bodies at all during the entirety of the London mission until Harbinger shows up...
Correct me if I'm wrong.

[CoolioThane]

Humans as bacteria is familiar

In the Matrix was it not Smith talking to Neo (Anderson) saying that humans are like a virus that use up all of the resources of an area before moving on to the next.

In this sense it seems the Reapers are more akin to a virus in that they infect system by system, cycle by cycle, destroying all resources (space-worthy races) before moving on...

[TJBartlemus]

CoolioThane wrote...

Another interesting thing I learned whilst listening:

Alleys says something about Reapers and Africa "brutal events when Reapers don't stop to indoctrinate" ---> the writers clearly differentiate in the story how Reapers act on Earth when indoctrinating and when not.

London is clearly a zone of indoctrination (focusing on major cities and political/military leaders) therefore more evidence why bodies do not fit and that something is wrong.

I actually had an idea that the beam is also a massive indoctrination device as well. It would make sense cause it is a Reaper device and all working Reaper tech has been proven to indoctrinate. 

[Hrothdane]

Sorry to repost this, but I would really like some feedback on what the hell this screenshot means.

[ThisOneIsPunny]

Hrothdane wrote...

Sorry to repost this, but I would really like some feedback on what the hell this screenshot means.

All of the Shepard's squad+VS+TIM staring up in awe at a reaper/harbinger? and the left side looks like it's part of Horizon or something. I know Megumi posted frame by frame of that cutscene, not sure if it's still available but it  was much easier to see if you can find it or she reposts it.

Edit: Actually, maybe the left side of that first picture is part of the Citadel or something. Shruggot. Hard to tell and fuzzy memory :/

Modifié par ThisOneIsPunny, 15 août 2012 - 05:08 .

[Gwyphon]

Hrothdane wrote...

Sorry to repost this, but I would really like some feedback on what the hell this screenshot means.

I think we determined that it was your companions getting indoctrinated (staring up in superstitious awe)

[Big_Boss9]

Leviathan confirmed for release on the 28th: http://social.biowar.../index/13689220

[Gwyphon]

Oooo nice! Now I actually have a date to wait for... Slowest 2 weeks of my life.

[Hrothdane]

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...

Sorry to repost this, but I would really like some feedback on what the hell this screenshot means.

All of the Shepard's squad+VS+TIM staring up in awe at a reaper/harbinger? and the left side looks like it's part of Horizon or something. I know Megumi posted frame by frame of that cutscene, not sure if it's still available but it  was much easier to see if you can find it or she reposts it.

Edit: Actually, maybe the left side of that first picture is part of the Citadel or something. Shruggot. Hard to tell and fuzzy memory :/

Awww ok. Damn. I thought I found something new >_<

Should have known better by now though

[spotlessvoid]

Switching to pm mode

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 15 août 2012 - 05:54 .