80611 réponses à ce sujet

[BansheeOwnage]

plfranke wrote...

DJBare wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Estebanus fully supports IT, but no longer belives IT was intended by BW or that it will be realized in future content. Does that about sum it up? A lot of other ITers don't think BW intended IT either. Personally, I don't see how they couldn't have. Whether they release IT in DLC in an entirely different discussion.

I am of the opposite opinion, I believe Bioware did intend IT but may have royally screwed up the execution, not enough people recognized that things may not appear to be what they seem when the game was first released, all hell broke loose(Hold the line, Take mass effect back) and Bioware had to act quickly to quell the outrage, I suspect Bioware knew there would be some outrage but completely underestimated how bad it would be.

I think it really comes down to Leviathan. Unless there are some huge hints dropped in Leviathan towards indoctrination, IT is dead.

IT as an interpretation will never be dead. As a viable possibility, it can only be killed by Bioware. Right now, according to Bioware, it remains a "valid possiblity."

Edit: Top again Estebanus! You have been discharged!

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 16 août 2012 - 10:18 .

[paxxton]

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Paragons > Renegades

That's a fact I don't care what you say

Renegons > paragades > renegades > paragons.

Synergics solve all the problems.

[Bill Casey]

legaldinho wrote...

Those are all ambiguous when it comes
to the ending. Forcing everyone to become a mix of synthetic and organic
is repellant. A difficult choice, and I would say an atrocity.

I don't think they help with IT at all.

They aren't difficult or repellent or atrocities to the people who picked them...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 16 août 2012 - 10:22 .

[FreddyCast]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

Hey guys, I'm back. I have a little project I'm doing about the IT, but I don't know if I should do it, since I feel like I've done enough already.
But that aside, I want to know your opinion of the Destroy ending, both before and after the EC.
Is it still the right choice? Is the refusal ending the right choice now? Or are both the right choice? or none the right choice?

I think destroy is the only right choice if taken literally. As for IT, destroy is correct, but I don't know about refuse. My personal opinion of refuse in IT is it works, but not as well as destroy.
Charm (destroy) > Paragon (Refuse)

Before the EC, I used to think the destroy ending was our hope for the IT to be true, especially since it left the question of whether the Crucible would destroy all synthetics or just reaper tech, and you saw EDI alive in the Normandy scene. But after the EC, BW changed the destroy ending, getting rid of EDI from the ending and making it clear to us that all synthetics would be destroyed. This to me, proved that even the destroy ending is the wrong choice, since it breaks the ME theme of true sacrifice such as Thane, Mordin, and Legion, and replaces it with Mass genocide and murder of your friends and allies.
Not even the breathing scene can change my mind about the destroy ending.

[plfranke]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

DJBare wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Estebanus fully supports IT, but no longer belives IT was intended by BW or that it will be realized in future content. Does that about sum it up? A lot of other ITers don't think BW intended IT either. Personally, I don't see how they couldn't have. Whether they release IT in DLC in an entirely different discussion.

I am of the opposite opinion, I believe Bioware did intend IT but may have royally screwed up the execution, not enough people recognized that things may not appear to be what they seem when the game was first released, all hell broke loose(Hold the line, Take mass effect back) and Bioware had to act quickly to quell the outrage, I suspect Bioware knew there would be some outrage but completely underestimated how bad it would be.

Well I definitely agree with that last part. I don't think they royaly screwed up though. I think the playerbase screwed up. Seems like most of the fanbase is oblivious. Did you see that tweet that Maximized posted from one of them that said something to the effect of:
Deal with the press as if you're dealing with the police; anything you say can and will be used against you" ?
So they knew what they were doing when they lied before release...

No Bioware did indeed screw up. Look around you, there are like 20 people that post on this thread the ones that "get it" (if IT was actually the goal). If they planned to indoctrinate the player they succeeded, but not in a way that was engaging and fun, in a way that destroyed the Mass Effect series.

[Nightingale]

estebanus wrote...
Speculation withdrawal syndrome:P

That's about how I'm feeling, anyway, since I don't have acess to my computer right now
I probably won't be able to keep up a conversation for long, but have I missed anything big in the last...250 or so pages?

[BansheeOwnage]

Bill Casey wrote...

They aren't difficult or repellent or atrocities to the people who picked them...

That's because if they were atrocites to them, people wouldn't pick them. They are flawed or misguided.
"Rational arguments don't usually work on religious people controllers and synthesizers. Otherwise, there wouldn't be religious people controllers or synthesizers. "
- House

[estebanus]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Edit: Top again Estebanus! You have been discharged!

I'm too tired and depressed for this right now. I'll see you tomorrow.

[estebanus]

The catalyst remids me a lot of a friend of mine... weird.

[legaldinho]

Bill Casey wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

Those are all ambiguous when it comes
to the ending. Forcing everyone to become a mix of synthetic and organic
is repellant. A difficult choice, and I would say an atrocity.

I don't think they help with IT at all.

It isn't difficult or repellent or atrocities to the people who picked it...

The ending fan brouhaha would rather disprove that.

I picked all three endings, at one time or another.

My point is Javik's words are not foreshadowing IT. All you could say is they may push you towards choosing destroy. That's not the same thing.

[BansheeOwnage]

DrTsoni wrote...

estebanus wrote...
Speculation withdrawal syndrome:P

That's about how I'm feeling, anyway, since I don't have acess to my computer right now
I probably won't be able to keep up a conversation for long, but have I missed anything big in the last...250 or so pages?

Hey DrTsoni! Haven't seen you in a while! Sorry though, I can't really recall any single thing that was important. Simon_Says made cool article, and we discussed the similarities between the beginning and end of the game yesterday.

[BansheeOwnage]

estebanus wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Edit: Top again Estebanus! You have been discharged!

I'm too tired and depressed for this right now. I'll see you tomorrow.

:/ Okay I'll see you tomorrow. I hope you feel better soon!

[estebanus]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Edit: Top again Estebanus! You have been discharged!

I'm too tired and depressed for this right now. I'll see you tomorrow.

:/ Okay I'll see you tomorrow. I hope you feel better soon!

I really wouldn't count on it, but thanks anyway. It means a lot.

[DJBare]

BansheeOwnage wrote...
Well I definitely agree with that last part. I don't think they royaly screwed up though. I think the playerbase screwed up.

That would be the "majority" of the playerbase.
To me that just says the delivery and execution failed, I'm a reasonably intelligent person, at least that's what I've been told, but at the end of Mass Effect 3 IT did not even occur to me until I saw the original IT thread, that's why I was one of those who joined in the outrage, then some hope came as I started reading these threads, but now it's seems like Bioware are trying to fix a mess with more mess, at some point I have to question how much longer this goes on, I want Bioware to succeed and hit us with some big revelation, but right now it's just looking like a mess.

[BansheeOwnage]

plfranke wrote...

No Bioware did indeed screw up. Look around you, there are like 20 people that post on this thread the ones that "get it" (if IT was actually the goal). If they planned to indoctrinate the player they succeeded, but not in a way that was engaging and fun, in a way that destroyed the Mass Effect series.

You can't say as a fact they screwed up. I accept that that is your opinion. But I don't know if they did. If they didn't intend IT, then yes, they screwed up. Big time.

[plfranke]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

They aren't difficult or repellent or atrocities to the people who picked them...

That's because if they were atrocites to them, people wouldn't pick them. They are flawed or misguided.
"Rational arguments don't usually work on religious people controllers and synthesizers. Otherwise, there wouldn't be religious people controllers or synthesizers. "
- House

Actually a completely rational argument would favor control and synthesis over destroy so I don't know what you're talking about

[Skeem]

estebanus wrote...

The catalyst remids me a lot of a friend of mine... weird.

What!?

You mean, your friend isn't entirely trustworthy?

[Nightingale]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

DrTsoni wrote...

estebanus wrote...
Speculation withdrawal syndrome:P

That's about how I'm feeling, anyway, since I don't have acess to my computer right now
I probably won't be able to keep up a conversation for long, but have I missed anything big in the last...250 or so pages?

Hey DrTsoni! Haven't seen you in a while! Sorry though, I can't really recall any single thing that was important. Simon_Says made cool article, and we discussed the similarities between the beginning and end of the game yesterday.

You too, I never seem to be online when you are. Hm..I'll have to dig up Simon's stuff when I get my PC back, then. I'm not really surprised we haven't had much to speculate about, though. Looks like we're all still waiting on Leviathan. I think I heard it'd be out somewhere around the 28th to the beginning of September. Any truth to that or is it wishful thinking?
I actually just played the beginning again and I have to agree. I could almost believe the theory that when Shepard gets blown back by the explosion that is when the hallucinations start, but...I don't know. Things don't really get weird until about Cronos and I don't think Bioware would intentionally write it so the entire game was up to debate.
Also, does anyone know if they fixed that glitch where if you continued a romance with Tali and then got her killed on Rannoch, she would then still show up before Cronos?

[FreddyCast]

plfranke wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

They aren't difficult or repellent or atrocities to the people who picked them...

That's because if they were atrocites to them, people wouldn't pick them. They are flawed or misguided.
"Rational arguments don't usually work on religious people controllers and synthesizers. Otherwise, there wouldn't be religious people controllers or synthesizers. "
- House

Actually a completely rational argument would favor control and synthesis over destroy so I don't know what you're talking about

Sure, in an ME universe where space magic exists and ME themes are turned upside down.

[plfranke]

DJBare wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...
Well I definitely agree with that last part. I don't think they royaly screwed up though. I think the playerbase screwed up.

That would be the "majority" of the playerbase.
To me that just says the delivery and execution failed, I'm a reasonably intelligent person, at least that's what I've been told, but at the end of Mass Effect 3 IT did not even occur to me until I saw the original IT thread, that's why I was one of those who joined in the outrage, then some hope came as I started reading these threads, but now it's seems like Bioware are trying to fix a mess with more mess, at some point I have to question how much longer this goes on, I want Bioware to succeed and hit us with some big revelation, but right now it's just looking like a mess.

Intelligence has nothing to do with it. Even if you saw the game and in the first playthrough said "oh Shepard must be indoctrinated" you'd have no concrete evidence of this. That's the problem right there and that's the screw up. In the highest destroy ending Shepard should have been definitively shown to be on Earth with the beam in the background. That would have been enough speculation, but it could be reasonable theorized that none of that happened. Right now there's too much speculation and no one really has any idea what happened, only that we all hope that the ending we got isn't the real deal.

[Payaso323]

DJBare wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...
Well I definitely agree with that last part. I don't think they royaly screwed up though. I think the playerbase screwed up.

That would be the "majority" of the playerbase.
To me that just says the delivery and execution failed, I'm a reasonably intelligent person, at least that's what I've been told, but at the end of Mass Effect 3 IT did not even occur to me until I saw the original IT thread, that's why I was one of those who joined in the outrage, then some hope came as I started reading these threads, but now it's seems like Bioware are trying to fix a mess with more mess, at some point I have to question how much longer this goes on, I want Bioware to succeed and hit us with some big revelation, but right now it's just looking like a mess.

I feel the same way. Lately I can't even take Bioware seriously.

[BansheeOwnage]

FreddyCast wrote...

Before the EC, I used to think the destroy ending was our hope for the IT to be true, especially since it left the question of whether the Crucible would destroy all synthetics or just reaper tech, and you saw EDI alive in the Normandy scene. But after the EC, BW changed the destroy ending, getting rid of EDI from the ending and making it clear to us that all synthetics would be destroyed. This to me, proved that even the destroy ending is the wrong choice, since it breaks the ME theme of true sacrifice such as Thane, Mordin, and Legion, and replaces it with Mass genocide and murder of your friends and allies.
Not even the breathing scene can change my mind about the destroy ending.

I disagree with destroy being genocide based on intention.
"the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group"
Since you don't deliberately destroy the Geth, nor do you do it systematically, this would not fall under the realm of genocide. I see it as necessary sacrifice. There are plenty of quotes from squadmates about necessary sacrifice, inculding many from EDI and the Geth themselves.

[plfranke]

FreddyCast wrote...

plfranke wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

They aren't difficult or repellent or atrocities to the people who picked them...

That's because if they were atrocites to them, people wouldn't pick them. They are flawed or misguided.
"Rational arguments don't usually work on religious people controllers and synthesizers. Otherwise, there wouldn't be religious people controllers or synthesizers. "
- House

Actually a completely rational argument would favor control and synthesis over destroy so I don't know what you're talking about

Sure, in an ME universe where space magic exists and ME themes are turned upside down.

Oh yeah because space magic never existed prior to things that happened in me3's ending. And that's the whole point of rationality, themes and emotions are just obstacles.

[BansheeOwnage]

plfranke wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

They aren't difficult or repellent or atrocities to the people who picked them...

That's because if they were atrocites to them, people wouldn't pick them. They are flawed or misguided.
"Rational arguments don't usually work on religious people controllers and synthesizers. Otherwise, there wouldn't be religious people controllers or synthesizers. "
- House

Actually a completely rational argument would favor control and synthesis over destroy so I don't know what you're talking about

A rational argument that takes ethics into consideration.

[BansheeOwnage]

plfranke wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

plfranke wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

They aren't difficult or repellent or atrocities to the people who picked them...

That's because if they were atrocites to them, people wouldn't pick them. They are flawed or misguided.
"Rational arguments don't usually work on religious people controllers and synthesizers. Otherwise, there wouldn't be religious people controllers or synthesizers. "
- House

Actually a completely rational argument would favor control and synthesis over destroy so I don't know what you're talking about

Sure, in an ME universe where space magic exists and ME themes are turned upside down.

Oh yeah because space magic never existed prior to things that happened in me3's ending. And that's the whole point of rationality, themes and emotions are just obstacles.

Correct, virtually all ME tech is based on real science. I know a thing or 2 about science. Space magic doesn't exist in real life or in ME.