80611 réponses à ce sujet

[BansheeOwnage]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Off course, the game wraps up alot of plots throughout its run, the Genophage, the Geth, they are all send of in meaningful ways (Mordin... ) but by the end, when it is time to end Shepards story, to either go out in a blaze of glory or have been so prepared Shepard lives through it, all we got was a whimper and a single breath of hope.

Very little closure to the people we had fought beside and loved, no closure at all for Shepard beyond a funeral which might not even be needed. As said above where is the fullfillment of the promises we, as Shepard, made? '

Build Tali´s house on Rannoch, see Liara and Shepards little blue kids (just this, just this would be enough for me, I dont want to have remained faithful towards Liara for 3 games and end it like this...), see Fem Shepard and Garrus adopt a little Krogan to raise...

Give us that drink everyone has been promising us, a big celebration with everyone alive of importance inivited. Would not have to be much either, they could do it like the end of ME2 as the camera slides across the survivors of the suicide mission, except this time they are celebrating and drinking, glad that the war is over...

Just that, closure for Shepard, for our romance and a celebration to show that this was a victory.

Yeah, basically this. Squad closure was sorely lacking and that's what everyone wanted. I'll write something about this later.
 
Edit: Top! Yeah! Anyway, Estebanus where are you? Well, I'm gonna go for now. I'll be back later, and if you run into the BW folks again, consider asking them something else interesting. Why did ME2's main villain not have any lines and only have a cameo appearance that could have been any reaper? Why didn't they reuse ME2 lines? A difficult question: What do they think about the thematic inconsistencies of the ending? About the apparent message that free will gets everyone killed (refuse) and why synthesis (essentially galactic rape) is okay?

Anyway, see you later.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 18 août 2012 - 06:32 .

[Arashi08]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

magnetite wrote...

I would say that LOST and BSG were similar in that you could argue that at least their finales were emotionally satisfying, even if they were intellectually deficient. ME3's ending taken at face value is both emotionally and intellectually deficient, imo.

I may be in the minority here, but Mass Effect 3 was the ending of the trilogy, not just the last 5 minutes or so.

Off course, the game wraps up alot of plots throughout its run, the Genophage, the Geth, they are all send of in meaningful ways (Mordin... ) but by the end, when it is time to end Shepards story, to either go out in a blaze of glory or have been so prepared Shepard lives through it, all we got was a whimper and a single breath of hope.

Very little closure to the people we had fought beside and loved, no closure at all for Shepard beyond a funeral which might not even be needed. As said above where is the fullfillment of the promises we, as Shepard, made? '

Build Tali´s house on Rannoch, see Liara and Shepards little blue kids (just this, just this would be enough for me, I dont want to have remained faithful towards Liara for 3 games and end it like this...), see Fem Shepard and Garrus adopt a little Krogan to raise...

Give us that drink everyone has been promising us, a big celebration with everyone alive of importance inivited. Would not have to be much either, they could do it like the end of ME2 as the camera slides across the survivors of the suicide mission, except this time they are celebrating and drinking, glad that the war is over...

Just that, closure for Shepard, for our romance and a celebration to show that this was a victory.

agreed, the ending just feels too...hollow as it is.  far too hollow for a franchise that tries so hard to have their players emotionally invested in the series.  Personally, I think they were trying to hard to be "original" and "open-ended" withtheir endings and ended up just pissing off all their long time fans, with the exception of people who HATE happy endings and think they're cliche or something. 

I think more stories should end on a high note, that way people can still have hope and not go through life depressed and expecting the worst.  Stories can do that; even when people know it is a work of fiction when they see these somber expressions all around them in so many forms of media they start to believe this is how the world works. 

I think people need uplifting stories; with trials and tribulations of course, but it becomes all the more satisfying when the characters can overcome these challenges and still end their story on a happy note, as though ti is a reward for overcoming their obstacles.  Even if IT isn't real as long as Shepard can actually get rewarded for overcoming all those challenges and sacrifices over the course of three games then I personally will be satisfied, especially if we actually get those little blue babies

Ok I'll get off my soapbox now.  If IT is a direction they were going then the endings might not mean as much anyway.  And if it isn't, there may be other ways for create a satisfying ending.  I want to give BioWare a chance to do that.

[Arashi08]

aaaaaand now my soapbox killed the thread...

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Arashi08 wrote...

agreed, the ending just feels too...hollow as it is.  far too hollow for a franchise that tries so hard to have their players emotionally invested in the series.  Personally, I think they were trying to hard to be "original" and "open-ended" withtheir endings and ended up just pissing off all their long time fans, with the exception of people who HATE happy endings and think they're cliche or something. 

I think more stories should end on a high note, that way people can still have hope and not go through life depressed and expecting the worst.  Stories can do that; even when people know it is a work of fiction when they see these somber expressions all around them in so many forms of media they start to believe this is how the world works. 

I think people need uplifting stories; with trials and tribulations of course, but it becomes all the more satisfying when the characters can overcome these challenges and still end their story on a happy note, as though ti is a reward for overcoming their obstacles.  Even if IT isn't real as long as Shepard can actually get rewarded for overcoming all those challenges and sacrifices over the course of three games then I personally will be satisfied, especially if we actually get those little blue babies

Ok I'll get off my soapbox now.  If IT is a direction they were going then the endings might not mean as much anyway.  And if it isn't, there may be other ways for create a satisfying ending.  I want to give BioWare a chance to do that.

Agreed and you dont even have to make it a completely sugar coated happy ending. Endings can be happy with sad elements.

A favorite example of mine is Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann an anime which gets the blood pumping and makes ones spirit soar with some incredible inspirational speeches backed by equally jaw dropping battles as Mechas the size of Galaxies fight for the fate of the entire universe.

But as the dust settles and the universe is saved, the series still end on a strong personal note in what can best be desribeded as a Wedding and a Funeral at the same time...it is both sad and uplifting.

It is a note I am also trying to hit personally in a story I am writing. I am nearing the end and the plan is to send the two main characters out with a bang, saving the world through their sacrifice.

But there will be no tears from them, no regrets. Throughout the story I have written we follow the characters through their life as they become inseperable and even start a family. By the time they walk (or fly as it will be) to their own death they have 3 loving children, all adults and one of which has children of her own.

They have lived life, fighting to defend their family, friends and the world. It has not allways been easy, but their life has over all been a good one and now they are ready to leave it, saving the day one last time with one last sacrifice.

Hapiness and Sadness. I am not asking for one of these, a mixture usualy is the best in my opinion, but not getting any of it is the worst and taht is the feeling i have with the ending.

[TJBartlemus]

Big_Boss9 wrote...

Some commentary from Chris on what the new part of the Citadel in Leviathan is for:

One of the new features is an exploration/clue system hat you play through in the new era on the Citadel to find clues on Leviathan. It's a cool Deduction mechanic.

From their Reddit AMA -- http://www.reddit.co...ty_manager_for/

Edit: He also said that there is more MP DLC coming.


Edit 2: Looks like they're done with the AMA. Haven't seen any new posts from them in a while. Nothing else of note besides the usual "It could have been a last breath blah blah" and how Jessica loves synthesis.


Edit 3:

plfranke wrote...

Hmmm Jessica Merizan just said something very interesting though. I asked "Can you give an answer to why Harbinger never spoke in me3?" She replied, "we know that's what you hoped to see, but sometimes we have other ideas we want to explore - never get too attached to a plot" It's that last part that gives me some small shard of hope.

She also commented on this in the AMA --

Harby as he's affectionately called is just one of many many reapers. He was important in ME2 because he was the herald, the reaper who scouted ahead and foreshadowed what was to come. There's lots of great plots and unfortunately we can't shed light onto all of them. I can't say that we won't expand on Harbinger's purpose either, so try Leviathan

Just read entire link. Too many posts...mind is tired from reading...overall I think it was a good read but man. Too many posts to pick through...

Now off to ME3 playthrough for a bit. Be back later!!! (I know I just got here...but I need a break....)

[Arashi08]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

agreed, the ending just feels too...hollow as it is.  far too hollow for a franchise that tries so hard to have their players emotionally invested in the series.  Personally, I think they were trying to hard to be "original" and "open-ended" withtheir endings and ended up just pissing off all their long time fans, with the exception of people who HATE happy endings and think they're cliche or something. 

I think more stories should end on a high note, that way people can still have hope and not go through life depressed and expecting the worst.  Stories can do that; even when people know it is a work of fiction when they see these somber expressions all around them in so many forms of media they start to believe this is how the world works. 

I think people need uplifting stories; with trials and tribulations of course, but it becomes all the more satisfying when the characters can overcome these challenges and still end their story on a happy note, as though ti is a reward for overcoming their obstacles.  Even if IT isn't real as long as Shepard can actually get rewarded for overcoming all those challenges and sacrifices over the course of three games then I personally will be satisfied, especially if we actually get those little blue babies

Ok I'll get off my soapbox now.  If IT is a direction they were going then the endings might not mean as much anyway.  And if it isn't, there may be other ways for create a satisfying ending.  I want to give BioWare a chance to do that.

Agreed and you dont even have to make it a completely sugar coated happy ending. Endings can be happy with sad elements.

A favorite example of mine is Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann an anime which gets the blood pumping and makes ones spirit soar with some incredible inspirational speeches backed by equally jaw dropping battles as Mechas the size of Galaxies fight for the fate of the entire universe.

But as the dust settles and the universe is saved, the series still end on a strong personal note in what can best be desribeded as a Wedding and a Funeral at the same time...it is both sad and uplifting.

It is a note I am also trying to hit personally in a story I am writing. I am nearing the end and the plan is to send the two main characters out with a bang, saving the world through their sacrifice.

But there will be no tears from them, no regrets. Throughout the story I have written we follow the characters through their life as they become inseperable and even start a family. By the time they walk (or fly as it will be) to their own death they have 3 loving children, all adults and one of which has children of her own.

They have lived life, fighting to defend their family, friends and the world. It has not allways been easy, but their life has over all been a good one and now they are ready to leave it, saving the day one last time with one last sacrifice.

Hapiness and Sadness. I am not asking for one of these, a mixture usualy is the best in my opinion, but not getting any of it is the worst and taht is the feeling i have with the ending.

ooooh that sounds interesting, I'm writing a story that I wanted to end in a similar manner, though it isn't about sacrifice, such as sacrificing their life, but they have to sacrifice something about themselves in order to change and make the world right again.  The idea in my story was if the villain lives then the world will be enslaved, but if the hero kills the villain then it will let something loose that is even worse, because the villain's existence is the only thing that holds it back.  the hero has to decide if they are strong enough to fight not only the villain but essentially a force of collective human selfishness.  I guess the idea was; can one person's strength hold back the tide of the entire world's weakness?  It probably isn't that much like your idea, but I think that it doesn't give a sugar coated ending but still ends the story on a high note.

And I love TTGL, I haven't seen all of the second half tho, if I get the chance I'll have to find it.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Arashi08 wrote...

ooooh that sounds interesting, I'm writing a story that I wanted to end in a similar manner, though it isn't about sacrifice, such as sacrificing their life, but they have to sacrifice something about themselves in order to change and make the world right again.  The idea in my story was if the villain lives then the world will be enslaved, but if the hero kills the villain then it will let something loose that is even worse, because the villain's existence is the only thing that holds it back.  the hero has to decide if they are strong enough to fight not only the villain but essentially a force of collective human selfishness.  I guess the idea was; can one person's strength hold back the tide of the entire world's weakness?  It probably isn't that much like your idea, but I think that it doesn't give a sugar coated ending but still ends the story on a high note.

And I love TTGL, I haven't seen all of the second half tho, if I get the chance I'll have to find it.

Funny you should mention that bit about not having seen the second half of it as the way you described your story is very similar to how the plot develops in the second half of the show.

Also cant help but draw some paralels to the Reapers in the way the villian of the second half of TTGL is and justifies his actions.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 18 août 2012 - 07:34 .

[Drewton]

 I hope they're still answering, because I put this question in.

"Will the Leviathan DLC confirm/deny the Indoctrination Theory or continue to leave it ambiguous? "

[HellishFiend]

Hey everyone! Hope you are all doing well. I am very happy to finally show a trailer and announce the release date for CW Episode 1. It will be out on the 24th of August, the Friday before Leviathan comes out. It will be in the neighborhood of a half hour long, and will be fully narrated. 


Choose Wisely - Episode 1 Trailer

For those who dont know, Choose Wisely is going to be a series that focuses on the themes of the trilogy, and how they apply to the endings. If you havent already, check out the pilot video for the series, linked in my sig below. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 18 août 2012 - 08:15 .

[plfranke]

I'm assuming you mean the 24th the Friday before Leviathan comes out, because Leviathan comes out on the 28th. Also this thread is dying without you Hellish.

[HellishFiend]

plfranke wrote...

I'm assuming you mean the 24th the Friday before Leviathan comes out, because Leviathan comes out on the 28th. Also this thread is dying without you Hellish.

Yeah, thanks.  I fixed it. Serves me right for posting it right after waking up from a nap. 

This video will be hopefully be worth my absence from the thread for so long. I would like for it to revitalize the discussion by refocusing our attention on the themes rather than other types of evidence or proof. 

[masster blaster]

The problem I have if IT is not true is SYNTHESIS. I can't even complain about this ending. But what I find interesting in Jessicas reply about Harbinger, just being the ME2 villan, and for just being a scout. I call BS. Harbinger is leading the attack on Earth. Harbinger is talking about Shepard to the other Reapers, and it is Harbinger that goes to Earth to stop Shepard, and no other Reaper. And even with low war assets Harbinger is the only Reaper there to stop Shepard. Harbinger is the first Reaper, so I call again BS to Just writing Harbinger off like that.

If they did, then I just quit, and say to hell with ME3, I am going back to Halo, and Star Wars.

I really don't want to play another ME game, if they don't include all that our Shepard did to save the galaxy, from the demons of hell. Synthesis is a fail, but Destroy, Control they can start something there. Not sure about Refuse, since it really doesn't have any off Shepard's chocies matter.

[CoolioThane]

Anyone else think the electric parts at the top of the elevator in the citadel coup mission look like the control handles? I instantly thought of them

[Drewton]

masster blaster wrote...

The problem I have if IT is not true is SYNTHESIS. I can't even complain about this ending. But what I find interesting in Jessicas reply about Harbinger, just being the ME2 villan, and for just being a scout. I call BS. Harbinger is leading the attack on Earth. Harbinger is talking about Shepard to the other Reapers, and it is Harbinger that goes to Earth to stop Shepard, and no other Reaper. And even with low war assets Harbinger is the only Reaper there to stop Shepard. Harbinger is the first Reaper, so I call again BS to Just writing Harbinger off like that.

Exactly right. Either way, whether the IT is true or not, Harbinger's role is ridiculously small.

[demersel]

I may be mistaken but do they say in the gama that Harbinger is FIRST reaper? I thought it is stated that he is the OLDEST reaper.

[Hrothdane]

demersel wrote...

I may be mistaken but do they say in the gama that Harbinger is FIRST reaper? I thought it is stated that he is the OLDEST reaper.

I would have to check. I never paid any attention to that disctinction, but it could be a notable change in meaning.

[Drewton]

demersel wrote...

I may be mistaken but do they say in the gama that Harbinger is FIRST reaper? I thought it is stated that he is the OLDEST reaper.

"The first Reaper. In this cycle, amongst your kind, it is known as Harbinger. "

[DoomsdayDevice]

HellishFiend wrote...

 I would like for it to revitalize the discussion by refocusing our attention on the themes rather than other types of evidence or proof. 

Simon_Says and I have been campaigning for that as well. Not to say the 'circumstantial' evidence isn't important, but it's absolutely vital we focus on the themes and stories.

This viewpoint lead to much confusion at first, but the misunderstandings have been cleared.

One of the strongest clues is that all your allies, at some point in the game tell you to give the Reapers no quarter, that destroying them is what you set out to do, that wanting to control them is insane, etc. It's in almost every important conversation.

Still blows me away how they can put so much of that stuff in the story, and then in the last 10 minutes they introduce a literal 'deus ex machina' who tells you otherwise, and people just take it for granted and jump into the synthesis beam, or grab the controls. It's bloody amazing.

My friend did much the same thing. I asked him what his final choice was and he said: "I went with control. Paragon."

And I was like 'Dudeeee... no way! WTF?' xD

I then explained that I didn't trust the kid because:

1. My Shepard made peace between Geth & Quarians
2. My Shepard discovered how the Quarians struck first
3. TIM wanted control
4. Saren wanted synthesis

He sat there for a few moments, blinking his eyes a few times, ran his hand through his hair and said:
"Damn, I feel like such a sucker now. I totally fell for it."

I didn't even have to mention the word indoctrination for him to realize that. xD

Also, nice trailer!

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 18 août 2012 - 09:16 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Drewton wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

The problem I have if IT is not true is SYNTHESIS. I can't even complain about this ending. But what I find interesting in Jessicas reply about Harbinger, just being the ME2 villan, and for just being a scout. I call BS. Harbinger is leading the attack on Earth. Harbinger is talking about Shepard to the other Reapers, and it is Harbinger that goes to Earth to stop Shepard, and no other Reaper. And even with low war assets Harbinger is the only Reaper there to stop Shepard. Harbinger is the first Reaper, so I call again BS to Just writing Harbinger off like that.

Exactly right. Either way, whether the IT is true or not, Harbinger's role is ridiculously small.

Not if he is the one directly responsible for Shepards Indoctrination. If we discovered that the kid and every dream was Harbinger messing with out minds, then his role would have been subtle but not small.

[HellishFiend]

Thanks! I'm looking forward to this coming Friday just as much as anyone else. =)

[MaximizedAction]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

*snip*

He sat there for a few moment, blinked his eyes a few times. Rna his hand through his hair and said:

 "Damn, I feel like such a sucker now. I totally fell for it."

I didn't even have to mention the word indoctrination for him to realize that. xD

Also, nice trailer!

At least your pal got it. My pal derped on "oh TIM and Saren turn out right? Oh well...still awesome ending".

[DoomsdayDevice]

Hey Drew, did you get a chance to ask your question?

[demersel]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Drewton wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

The problem I have if IT is not true is SYNTHESIS. I can't even complain about this ending. But what I find interesting in Jessicas reply about Harbinger, just being the ME2 villan, and for just being a scout. I call BS. Harbinger is leading the attack on Earth. Harbinger is talking about Shepard to the other Reapers, and it is Harbinger that goes to Earth to stop Shepard, and no other Reaper. And even with low war assets Harbinger is the only Reaper there to stop Shepard. Harbinger is the first Reaper, so I call again BS to Just writing Harbinger off like that.

Exactly right. Either way, whether the IT is true or not, Harbinger's role is ridiculously small.

Not if he is the one directly responsible for Shepards Indoctrination. If we discovered that the kid and every dream was Harbinger messing with out minds, then his role would have been subtle but not small.

He is directly responsible for Sheperds indoctrination. Remember, Shepard Sees Harbinger in Arrival - no device no projetor - Harbinger speaks directly into shepards brain. 

[Drewton]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Hey Drew, did you get a chance to ask your question?

You mean on reddit? Yeah I asked it, haven't gotten a response yet.

I'm most likely wrong but I thought I saw something interesting in the opening cutscenes today...Shepard limping on the feeds from London in the opening cutscenes. But again, I'm probably wrong and it wouldn't even make sense.

EDIT: Yeah, I don't think it's exactly the same, just similar animation.

 

6:32

Modifié par Drewton, 18 août 2012 - 10:24 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

I don't think it's anything, TBH.

But it's a good idea to study those things. It would be really creepy if there was actually a brief shot of Shepard limping towards the beam or something. xD Especially because it's footage from London.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 18 août 2012 - 10:37 .