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[DoomsdayDevice]

Damn, venturing outside of this thread is always a mind-numbing experience.

There's this thread about why the catalyst looks like the kid back on earth.

It's just page after page of people who have no clue at all why this could be. Like, it's not even occurring to them that the Reapers might be reading your mind and trying to manipulate you. It's incredible.

All in all there's exactly one person who suggests this, and he/she doesn't even want to 'go there' because of all the hate for the 'dream theory'.

Not enough facepalm in the world.

/rant

[Drewton]

desert_beagle wrote...

What do you think they are trying to do with Shepard? That is what the Reapers are all about, at the end of ME2 Harbinger says, "We are your salvation through destruction."

"We will bring your species into harmony with our own."

"Your species will be raised to a new existance."

SYNTHESIS

Modifié par Drewton, 19 août 2012 - 05:08 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

desert_beagle wrote...

Aside from all of the other assertions and evidence pointing towards the IT, one thing that I have not seen addressed is the sheer convenience of everything after Harbinger's beam. I mean think about it. The transport beam literally takes him to a place on the Citidel with a straight shot to a control panel that opens the arms. No exploration necessary, just walk in a straight line, and here you go, open the arms and allow the one thing in the galaxy that will kill the Reapers the ability to dock. Then there is the elevator that takes him up after he passes out. First he dropped his gun before going up, then he passes out and this "magic" elevator on the Citidel (designed by Reapers) takes him exactly where he needs to go to activate the Crucible(designed by life from previous cycles). Oh and this Reaper AI that just happens to take on the form of the same child that Shepard has been seeing through out the game and practically says "I'm a Reaper AI, but believe everything I have to say, and the ONLY REALLY GOOD solutions are either to Control US or to Synthesize with US." Then Shepard is holding his gun again. and you make your choice. Even with the extended cut, I have to call the BS card on this. It makes absolutely no sense for any of these stars to just align themselves after Harbinger just made sure that nobody got to the transport beam. We KNOW from Vigil and the Prothean VI that trying to control the Reapers HAS NEVER WORKED. Everyone who has tried has failed. Synthesis is what the Reapers are already doing. They harvest organic life and synthesize it into their own organic/synthetic form to make troops or more Reapers. Of course a Reaper AI is going to push you towards those two and make you believe that by doing this you have saved everyone and that by destroying them you will kill all of your synthetic friends along with them and you will just prove his point that organics will always destroy synthetics. The Catalyst even says that TIM couldn't control them, because they already controlled him. What do you think they are trying to do with Shepard? That is what the Reapers are all about, at the end of ME2 Harbinger says, "We are your salvation through destruction."

Yeah, exactly. Everyone who ever wanted to control the Reapers ended up being indoctrinated.

Hell, even the Protheans fell because of a faction that thought they could control the Reapers and turned out to be indoctrinated.

I'll never be able to believe otherwise.

It's just so freaking obvious.

Yet people keep having doubts because they so badly need confirmation.

Well, the confirmation is right there, in the game. In that first scene where we see (and hear!) the Alliance ship flying, and the cam zooms out and it turns out to be this boy controlling the ship. Symbolic meaning:

1. It's an illusion!
2. The boy is in control!
3. Stuff is not what it looks like around this boy!

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 19 août 2012 - 05:10 .

[Drewton]

Also, the definition of synthesis:

"The combining of the constituent elements of separatematerial or abstract entities into a single or unified entity", "a complex whole formed by combining".

Sounds a lot like becoming a Reaper to me.

We're told Synthesis is inevitable?

“You prolong the inevitable.”
“You have merely delayed the inevitable.”
-Harbinger

Modifié par Drewton, 19 août 2012 - 05:10 .

[ozzydude66]

No it was real it was great it was silly but it was great.

[BansheeOwnage]

desert_beagle wrote...

Aside from all of the other assertions and evidence pointing towards the IT, one thing that I have not seen addressed is the sheer convenience of everything after Harbinger's beam. I mean think about it. The transport beam literally takes him to a place on the Citidel with a straight shot to a control panel that opens the arms. No exploration necessary, just walk in a straight line, and here you go, open the arms and allow the one thing in the galaxy that will kill the Reapers the ability to dock. Then there is the elevator that takes him up after he passes out. First he dropped his gun before going up, then he passes out and this "magic" elevator on the Citidel (designed by Reapers) takes him exactly where he needs to go to activate the Crucible(designed by life from previous cycles). Oh and this Reaper AI that just happens to take on the form of the same child that Shepard has been seeing through out the game and practically says "I'm a Reaper AI, but believe everything I have to say, and the ONLY REALLY GOOD solutions are either to Control US or to Synthesize with US." Then Shepard is holding his gun again. and you make your choice. Even with the extended cut, I have to call the BS card on this. It makes absolutely no sense for any of these stars to just align themselves after Harbinger just made sure that nobody got to the transport beam. We KNOW from Vigil and the Prothean VI that trying to control the Reapers HAS NEVER WORKED. Everyone who has tried has failed. Synthesis is what the Reapers are already doing. They harvest organic life and synthesize it into their own organic/synthetic form to make troops or more Reapers. Of course a Reaper AI is going to push you towards those two and make you believe that by doing this you have saved everyone and that by destroying them you will kill all of your synthetic friends along with them and you will just prove his point that organics will always destroy synthetics. The Catalyst even says that TIM couldn't control them, because they already controlled him. What do you think they are trying to do with Shepard? That is what the Reapers are all about, at the end of ME2 Harbinger says, "We are your salvation through destruction."

Well you could try using some formatting  but I agree with you completely. It is all very convenient. So convenient, that you could say it's a made up - in Shepard's mind.  But yeah, seriously, I will never be convinced to pick the 2 options of the villains. That is IT's strongest argument IMO. The fact that you align yourself with the reapers goals in 2 out of 3 options (I'm ignoring refuse). What more do people need?

Is Casey Hudson really so bad at writing that he forgot the key themes of his own series? I hope not, and to be honest, I really doubt it. He can't be that stupid! Another thing: The starkid indirectly admits he was controlling Shepard. Apparently TIM was controlling Shepard, and since "we already controlled him" and he openly admits that he controls the reapers (or he is the reapers, I don't know, so many contradictions) it was actually the reapers who were attempting to control Shepard. Beat that!

[BansheeOwnage]

Drewton wrote...

desert_beagle wrote...

What do you think they are trying to do with Shepard? That is what the Reapers are all about, at the end of ME2 Harbinger says, "We are your salvation through destruction."

"We will bring your species into harmony with our own."

"Your species will be raised to a new existance."

SYNTHESIS

Pretty much, but since I play without subtitles, I heard this:
"YOUR SPECIES WILL BE RAZED TO A NEW EXISTENCE."
Which makes way more sense

[DoomsdayDevice]

Drewton wrote...

Also, the definition of synthesis:

"The combining of the constituent elements of separatematerial or abstract entities into a single or unified entity", "a complex whole formed by combining".

Sounds a lot like becoming a Reaper to me.

We're told Synthesis is inevitable?

“You prolong the inevitable.”
“You have merely delayed the inevitable.”
-Harbinger

Yeah, synthesis is basically what happens to your crew in ME2, if you're too late to save them. Turn into Reaper goo and  "embrace perfection".

People forget that the Reapers ARE synthesis of organic and synthetic. To synthesize, is to become Reaper goo for the next Reaper.
And this "AI" acts as if it's the latest thing.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 19 août 2012 - 05:16 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

But yeah, seriously, I will never be convinced to pick the 2 options of the villains. That is IT's strongest argument IMO. The fact that you align yourself with the reapers goals in 2 out of 3 options (I'm ignoring refuse). What more do people need?

Haha, that is EXACTLY what Simon_Says and I were saying earlier this week, when you disagreed. Told you it was a misunderstanding.

Exactly for this reason I keep campaigning to have this video added to the first post of the thread, but people ignore me:

There is Only One Choice

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 19 août 2012 - 05:22 .

[ozzydude66]

I like the endings they don't need to be a dream. They could however make the starchild say "I've searched your mind for a form you can understand. That would fix the starchild real quick.

[desert_beagle]

I also don't care what anybody says about Shepard waking up on the Citidel after the destroy theory. The body is in concrete rubble. Where is there concrete anywhere Shepard is standing at the end? If he/she fell someplace he/she would have to do it through the vacuum of space, and if the massive explosion Shepard set off and was at ground zero of wasn't enough to BBQ him/her, that would certainly be the cherry on top to finish Shepard off. It killed him at the beginning of ME2.

Then again, a Spartan III can survive a fall from space and get back up with a little limp, but can't jump down twenty feet without dying in Reach so what do I know?

[Drewton]

 

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Drewton wrote...

Also, the definition of synthesis:

"The combining of the constituent elements of separatematerial or abstract entities into a single or unified entity", "a complex whole formed by combining".

Sounds a lot like becoming a Reaper to me.

We're told Synthesis is inevitable?

“You prolong the inevitable.”
“You have merely delayed the inevitable.”
-Harbinger

Yeah, synthesis is basically what happens to your crew in ME2, if you're too late to save them. Turn into Reaper goo and  "embrace perfection".

People forget that the Reapers ARE synthesis of organic and synthetic. To synthesize, is to become Reaper goo for the next Reaper.
And this "AI" acts as if it's the latest thing. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

 
Exactly!

ozzydude66 wrote...

I like the endings they don't need to be a dream. They could however make the starchild say "I've searched your mind for a form you can understand.

To a form that will play on Shepard's emotions and will help manipulate him?

Modifié par Drewton, 19 août 2012 - 05:23 .

[BansheeOwnage]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Yeah, synthesis is basically what happens to your crew in ME2, if you're too late to save them. Turn into Reaper goo and  "embrace perfection".

People forget that the Reapers ARE synthesis of organic and synthetic. To synthesize, is to become Reaper goo for the next Reaper.
And this "AI" acts as if it's the latest thing.

You basically become a reaper in 2 out of 3 endings, in a literal and IT perspective. That should probably suggest something...

[spotlessvoid]

Bioware isn't going to do any big reveal, either way, via twitter...

[BansheeOwnage]

ozzydude66 wrote...

I like the endings they don't need to be a dream. They could however make the starchild say "I've searched your mind for a form you can understand. That would fix the starchild real quick.

Well, I honestly have no idea what "fix" means to you but the thing reading Shepard's mind unfortunately makes no sense on many levels. But even if you ingore that, the thing is still manipulating you like Drewton said and there is no precedent for mind-reading in Mass Effect.

Oh, and shouldn't a reaper AI in Shepard's mind be enough to doubt his intentions? Just a little?

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 19 août 2012 - 05:25 .

[desert_beagle]

I also find it funny that most people ignore the final dream with Shepard chasing the child, in that he/she sees themselves burn with the child after catching up with them.

The child at the beginning in the vent tells Shepard point blank "Everyone is dying! You can't save them." He doesn't say, "you can't save me." He says them. I guess we'll just chalk that one up to bad writing, too.

[BansheeOwnage]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Bioware isn't going to do any big reveal, either way, via twitter...

I know lol. A lot of people seem to be under the impression that if they do do a big reveal, it will be on twitter or at a press conference.

[Facepalm]

If they do one, it will be ingame through DLC.

[ozzydude66]

Drewton: Yes yes that's what I ment I don't belive in the IDT but I do belive the reapers were trying to sway shep by scanning his mind and using the child.

[spotlessvoid]

@Ozzy

Yeah, Cause that's all that's wrong with catalyst

[Drewton]

desert_beagle wrote...

The child at the beginning in the vent tells Shepard point blank "Everyone is dying! You can't save them." He doesn't say, "you can't save me." He says them. I guess we'll just chalk that one up to bad writing, too.

I don't remember ever hearing this before.

ozzydude66 wrote...

Drewton: Yes yes that's what I ment I don't belive in the IDT but I do belive the reapers were trying to sway shep by scanning his mind and using the child.

 
If the Reapers are in Shepard's mind why/how are they not indoctrinating him?

How does just an AI scan someone's mind?

Modifié par Drewton, 19 août 2012 - 05:33 .

[BansheeOwnage]

desert_beagle wrote...

I also find it funny that most people ignore the final dream with Shepard chasing the child, in that he/she sees themselves burn with the child after catching up with them.

The child at the beginning in the vent tells Shepard point blank "Everyone is dying! You can't save them." He doesn't say, "you can't save me." He says them. I guess we'll just chalk that one up to bad writing, too.

Those people also think that the dreams have virtually no significance to the story.

Excuse me while I attempt to leave this planet; there is simply not enough facepalm to suit my needs here.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

desert_beagle wrote...

I also don't care what anybody says about Shepard waking up on the Citidel after the destroy theory. The body is in concrete rubble. Where is there concrete anywhere Shepard is standing at the end? If he/she fell someplace he/she would have to do it through the vacuum of space, and if the massive explosion Shepard set off and was at ground zero of wasn't enough to BBQ him/her, that would certainly be the cherry on top to finish Shepard off. It killed him at the beginning of ME2.

Then again, a Spartan III can survive a fall from space and get back up with a little limp, but can't jump down twenty feet without dying in Reach so what do I know?

Gonna go off topic to answer thee second part.

During that orbital reentry Noble Six goes through in Reach he is wearing a "Reentry Kit." It is not easy to spot as it is a small attachment to his back bearing the above text only visible in cutscenes or if you have a second player playing splitscreen so he can watch your back during the mission.

What does the Kit exactly do? No clue at all, but it is a possible explanation.

As for Master Chiefs later suvrival of reentry, from what I understand it was essentially because he locked down his suit much like the "Armor Lock" power from Reach.

But in the ME series we know Shepard cant survive Orbital reentry because...well he dident, he died in ME2. Only a set of incredibly lucky conincedences kept his brain intact enough to bring him back and even then it was a project which took 2 years and a massive amount of Credits.

He would not be breathing in that rubble had he come from the Citadel.

[BansheeOwnage]

ozzydude66 wrote...

Drewton: Yes yes that's what I ment I don't belive in the IDT but I do belive the reapers were trying to sway shep by scanning his mind and using the child.

Dude, you can't "scan" people's minds...

[ozzydude66]

Spotlessvoid: only prob I have but that's just my "opinion there's really no need to go spreading it around"
Ha I didn't relize what I was typing untill I finnished.

[ozzydude66]

Bansheeownage: The codex says the reapers have more advenced Tech so yes they could have Scan Tech.