80611 réponses à ce sujet

[BansheeOwnage]

demersel wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...
Again...its not the understanding of organics that synthetics gain, but the understanding of emotion...for a Star Trek comparison, think of Data from TNG when he has the emotions chip plugged in - he senses fear, etc. but w/o he is always struggling to grasp the subleties of the crews' emotions (from anger and sarcasm to love and humor).  That is what synthetics get from synthesis...

Yeah, and i always thought that DATA's subplots are lame. 

You get understanding of emotions, spending time with those individuals who has them, and dispays them constantly. 

Again why do they need understanding of emotions if there are no emotions anymore? Emotions is a mean of communication, when everything is syntetic, there is now need for that anymore, since communications between everything are now digital and handled at the speed of light. 

Emotions aren't really a means of communication. I could be pissed off, but not tell anyone, and likewise, I could tell people I'm pissed off, even though I'm not. We can tell others how we feel, but not the other way around.

Anyway, I'll be back later! Hopefully when I'm back, we'll see something about Operation Alloy!

Edit: Top! Take that Estebanus - I know you like it!

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 21 août 2012 - 08:00 .

[demersel]

D.Sharrah wrote...
In the terms of synthesis I am not sure that this is accurate...think of Saren's words, "the strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither" and EDI's speech from the synthesis ending where she talks about how now there is no worry about disease, death, etc. (not exact words I know - but definetly not screaming behold our mighty mortality).  You may be right that emotions themselves have an origin - but I think it is the emotions themselves that is the strength that synthetics desire...especially in the ME Universe - just think of some of the conversations that you have with EDI in ME 3.

You don't get it, THIS is the real strengh of humans and organics.
Also Saren isn't the best source to qoute on this matter, you do know he was indoctrinated, and spoke jibberish and nonsense, imbued by Reapers? 

And i do remember conversations with EDI  - she's against syntesis.

[Chriz Tah Fah]

ice-vision wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

@banshee
It is also interesting to note that Eva was FORCIBLY controlled by TIM. In synthesis everyone was FORCED to become part organic/synthetic. However, during the majority of the game EDI's visor is red, by her own accord, nobody forced her to do so, yet in the other two situations it is forced.

She was created to serve TIM, not forcibally controlled, she can only follow her programming or TIM's orders.

I am very aware of this. But programming is a form of control. Look at the Bourne series.

[ebuchala]

ice-vision wrote...

Is it ever said how Admiral Hackett knows Liara is the Shadow Broker? 'cause I think that's a pretty big secret to have someone like Hackett know.

On the Liara/Glyph/Finding-Crucuible thing.:
Liara said her agents crossed paths with Cerberus agents which lead to her base being compromised, maybe since Liara is information itself as SB, TIM (after agents told him that Liara went to Mars) thinks maybe she's found something important in the Mars Archives to personally go there herself and so dispatches Eva to find out what was discovered.

I was actually pretty gobsmacked at how casual Shepard was a few times with what I considered sensitive information. He just blurted out to Traynor (sp?) that Edi was an unshackled AI after just having met the woman. And I thought both he and Liara were rather casual at times about her identity as Shadow Broker so I guess I just assumed that Shepard told Hackett about it when he reported to him at some point after the Shadow Broker mission.

I can see how that might work as a reason for TIM to go to Mars except that he was a step ahead of them. It sure seems like he would'nt have been able to get to the data first if he's just following up on Liara's info and research. Plus, I think TIM mentioned how Cerberus had been studying information in the Mars archive for years, which then begs the question, why didn't he find the crucible before ME3? Will have to go listen to their Mars discussion with TIM again to refresh my memory on what he says about the archives. I know he mentions that the Alliance has had access to the archives for decades and not done anything with the information.

[Samtheman63]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

So with the reverse image Hackett thing...

Whats this guys?

[NebuchadnezzaRT]

ebuchala wrote...

demersel wrote...

The problem with Rufuse being the true ending - it doesn't have breath scene. And they could have easili added that, or changed it so destroy doesn't have it and refuse does. 

Also, ypu're thinking about it from the wrong angle.
We used to have three options, now we have four. 
High EMS destroy has breath scene at the end. 
Before EC people chose destroy for two reasons: 
1 - they truly wanted to destroy the reapers at all costs. 
2 - they liked the other two options even less. 

Now, after the EC release - only people who want to chose destroy, chose it. Others, those who are not commited, or who doesn't like the options given have refuse, which really does nothing. 
Imagine, you struggle through countless hordes of enemies, with one goal - do destroy the reapers, and then, the catalyst says," OK, you've gone so far, you've done so many thing, now you have three options - you can destroy us at all costs, as you wanted; you can try to control us, as illusive man suggested, OR! Power option! You can fuse all organic life in the galaxy with the machines some how! And go - naah,, i don't feel like doing anything. 

Addition of refuse in the EC has two purposes:

1- to make a treat to the community - We do listen you! We give you what you want! (and they did EXACTLY what the community asked for - add an option to tell the catasyst off with an epic speach! Let it be the lose option, but give us an opportunity to go with a blast.

2 - futher test the resolve of true fans, who want to wake up and fight off indoctrination. 

On the other hand, if everything the starbrat tells you is a lie, then why would destroy be anything more than a ploy to get you to do something that the reapers want? I mean, if we know the starbrat is lying, manipulating, and being deliberately vague, etc. (which we do), then what makes one of HIS three options any better than the other two? Maybe the destroy option actually destroys all non-sentient technology which would take out pretty much all of our ships, weapons and communications and anyone who relied on technology to survive (Shepard, the quarians, etc.). I'm not saying it does, just pointing out that simply because Shep breathes after that option doesn't make it the "right" one--perhaps the breath scene is also part of the hallucination. I don't actually believe this, though, because that would mean that BW shipped a game with a no-win ending. (Of course, with talk of having dlc complete a game, I suppose it's not any worse than having a game without an ending, as long as the dlc does eventually give you the chance to win at some point).

Anyway, you have to admit that the refuse option is the only "option" that isn't offered by the starbrat so it's pretty much the only one untainted by Catalyst cooties. My current canon choice is destroy because that was everything my broshep worked towards. But my femshep might end up having refuse as her canon choice because, in my opinion, from a purely logical perspective, refuse would be the best IT option since you're essentially telling the reapers that you don't accept their logic or their solutions and will make your own solution, as Shepard has done  repeatedly throughout the series.

Look at how he colors Destroy, what you will "lose" if you schoose to destroy the Reapers and the Starchild.
Personally I think Refuse could go a few ways:
Puzzle Theory Refuse, where Refuse is gradually built up to a success ending instead of the fail-refuse ending. (Sorry if it is'nt Puzzle Theory, I'm working off of memory)
And then you have where Refuse is the ultimate betrayal of Shepard's morals and motivations, instead of making the hard choices (choices he has seen through previously) he gives up.

[demersel]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Emotions aren't really a means of communication. I could be pissed off, but not tell anyone, and likewise, I could tell people I'm pissed off, even though I'm not. We can tell others how we feel, but not the other way around.

Anyway, I'll be back later! Hopefully when I'm back, we'll see something about Operation Alloy!

Edit: Top! Take that Estebanus - I know you like it!

They are a mean of communication - emotion is unconscious response to external or internal stimulus. they allow other people to know what you are feeling, without asking you. You can learn to hide your emotions, to control yourself, but that is a feat, whcih shoul be mastered first.  Also you can learn to exibit only the ones you want others to see even, if they are not true. That feat is called lieing.

You cannot decide what emotion you are going to feel - that is not an emotion then. 

[ebuchala]

demersel wrote...

Later, on the normandy Liara says that it was GLYPH, that found the crucible date, by extensive filtering, and that if it wasn't for him, she would never even knew it was there. 

Ah, that's where Banshee got that idea. I have to admit that there were numerous auto-dialogues that I only half listened to because auto-dialogue = <_< (well, except for the occasional funny conversations, usually between Garrus and anybody else).

[ebuchala]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

So with the reverse image Hackett thing...

It's no small feat to fake a QEC transmission. You have to be in possession of one of the transmitters with a set of entangled particles linked to whoever you are transmitting to, unless the Alliance has set up a giant QEC switchboard somewhere (in which case every QEC is entangled to the switchboard).

Didn't someone post that Object Rho was transmitting to Reaper territory using something similar to a QEC transmission? Meaning, the reapers have QEC technology, right? But, is that first transmission from Hacket even using the QEC tech, anyway? Isn't is just a "regular" transmission like they use to communicate with the shuttles?

[estebanus]

byne wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

@ Byne There was a pessimism spike, we had a discussion about whether synthesis could ever be a good thing (I.E. achieved naturally somehow), we talked about how IT makes so much more sense than the literal interpretation that the literal interpretation is a theory, and not IT. We also had an uplifting discussion about why they would plan IT and how, I posted something new and interesting about EDI, and last page I also posted something interesting about Hackett.


Have fun on your trip? I might have seen your ship.

Synthesis a good thing? Man, you guys get up to all sorts of nonsense when I'm not around.

I just realized I dont even know where you live. Also, did you see the name of the ship? I was on the Carnival Spirit.

Had a great time.

It's nice to know you had a good trip!

Also, about this synthesis thing: It was me who brought it up. What I basically said was, that Synthesis is extremely wrong and disgusting if Shepard chooses it as a way to end the reaper threat. However, if organics achieve it naturally on their own terms, it is something good. Otherwise, they wouldn't be ready for it.

[demersel]

ebuchala wrote...

demersel wrote...

The problem with Rufuse being the true ending - it doesn't have breath scene. And they could have easili added that, or changed it so destroy doesn't have it and refuse does. 

Also, ypu're thinking about it from the wrong angle.
We used to have three options, now we have four. 
High EMS destroy has breath scene at the end. 
Before EC people chose destroy for two reasons: 
1 - they truly wanted to destroy the reapers at all costs. 
2 - they liked the other two options even less. 

Now, after the EC release - only people who want to chose destroy, chose it. Others, those who are not commited, or who doesn't like the options given have refuse, which really does nothing. 
Imagine, you struggle through countless hordes of enemies, with one goal - do destroy the reapers, and then, the catalyst says," OK, you've gone so far, you've done so many thing, now you have three options - you can destroy us at all costs, as you wanted; you can try to control us, as illusive man suggested, OR! Power option! You can fuse all organic life in the galaxy with the machines some how! And go - naah,, i don't feel like doing anything. 

Addition of refuse in the EC has two purposes:

1- to make a treat to the community - We do listen you! We give you what you want! (and they did EXACTLY what the community asked for - add an option to tell the catasyst off with an epic speach! Let it be the lose option, but give us an opportunity to go with a blast.

2 - futher test the resolve of true fans, who want to wake up and fight off indoctrination. 

On the other hand, if everything the starbrat tells you is a lie, then why would destroy be anything more than a ploy to get you to do something that the reapers want? I mean, if we know the starbrat is lying, manipulating, and being deliberately vague, etc. (which we do), then what makes one of HIS three options any better than the other two? Maybe the destroy option actually destroys all non-sentient technology which would take out pretty much all of our ships, weapons and communications and anyone who relied on technology to survive (Shepard, the quarians, etc.). I'm not saying it does, just pointing out that simply because Shep breathes after that option doesn't make it the "right" one--perhaps the breath scene is also part of the hallucination. I don't actually believe this, though, because that would mean that BW shipped a game with a no-win ending. (Of course, with talk of having dlc complete a game, I suppose it's not any worse than having a game without an ending, as long as the dlc does eventually give you the chance to win at some point).

Anyway, you have to admit that the refuse option is the only "option" that isn't offered by the starbrat so it's pretty much the only one untainted by Catalyst cooties. My current canon choice is destroy because that was everything my broshep worked towards. But my femshep might end up having refuse as her canon choice because, in my opinion, from a purely logical perspective, refuse would be the best IT option since you're essentially telling the reapers that you don't accept their logic or their solutions and will make your own solution, as Shepard has done  repeatedly throughout the series.

That's the thing - we don't know that destroy does what the catalyst says it does!   
But that is not important really, cause there is nothing we can do about it yet. 

About refuse. I disagree that it is the best option, since you're telling the reapers that you don't accept their logic or their solution. 
In refuse you're telling reapers just that you don't accept their solution, however you do accept the premise! You do accept that everything that is there and everything that you're told is true, and you don't like given options. You accept that there is a logic to argue with. You even give a speach.

think about it this way. You want to kill a wolf, that's killed your child. You come to his cave, find him but then he speaks! He says - You can kill me if you want, but this will not change anything, since there will be other wolves, and other chilren killed by it. Also if you kill me some of you're best friends will also die, cause, you know, karma, and i'm also magical this way! But there are other options! You can tame me! And them you'll have a pet talking wolf, that is also magical, but in this scenario i will eat you first. Or! Since i'm magical, and stuff i can make everyone be part-wolf, and so no-more child killing! For the spell to work I'm afraid i'll have to eat you, so i can then combine your spirit and essence with mine and spread to everyone. 

And you go - No! I refuse to make that choice! Someday, someone will figure out the way to beat your logic! 
The wolf - Okey-dokye (eats you)

My point is - you came there to kill a monster. By choosing anything than killing a monster, you lose. (because you failed to kill a monster!!!)

Modifié par demersel, 21 août 2012 - 08:29 .

[estebanus]

BansheeOwnage wrote...
Edit: Top! Take that Estebanus - I know you like it!

Maybe you should try grinding a little more!

[demersel]

ebuchala wrote...

demersel wrote...

Later, on the normandy Liara says that it was GLYPH, that found the crucible date, by extensive filtering, and that if it wasn't for him, she would never even knew it was there. 

Ah, that's where Banshee got that idea. I have to admit that there were numerous auto-dialogues that I only half listened to because auto-dialogue = <_< (well, except for the occasional funny conversations, usually between Garrus and anybody else).

Hey! I created the whole GLYPH is EVIL and the real shadow broker, and it's a monitoring device by reapers theory! Like back in early april. 

[masster blaster]

Okay guys I know already we have talked about this, but i want to shed some light on the Cerberus, Rachni and Geth plot to the Reapers. You see the Reapers know how to fight a war because they have been doing this for countless cycles, but people need to understand why the Geth, Rachni, and Cerberus were fighting for the Reapers.

it starts like this. Harbinger leads the attack on Earth for four reasons.

1. To hurt Shepard's will to fight,
2.So that Humanity can let them create more of them, once they are done harvesting all 11, or so billion humans on Earth.
3 If the Reapers attacked the Citadel, then Humanity would step in and gather everyone to the galaxy, and do more damage than the Reapers can recover from.
4. To plant the seeds of indoctrination, to Shepard/ the player, and maybe Anderson.

Okay now we get into Mars. Cerberus so happened to be there when Shepard arrives, but the weird part is that when we find out the all of Cerberus's troops have been turned into a husk, like in Evolution.

Any ways when we get to meet TIM, he want's the data for his own gain, yet the Reapers are telling TIM what to do, so why is it that the Reapers want TIM to download the Crucible, and not destroy all records of the Crucible, by Destroying the Prothean archives.

Okay later on in the game, we learn that the Reapers are fighting all the ADVANCED races on all fronts, yet even thought they are hard to kill, they know that they can't be every where at once, and find out what the Galaxy's army's/ resistance is planing. So They finish indoctrinating TIM, and build his/ the Reapers private army, to cripple the galaxy's defenses, and gather humans for harvesting for the Reapers.

1. Cerberus try's to take over the Citadel, without alerting the fleets/ everyone on what has happen on the Citadel, and will close the relays, so that the Reapers can now fight there battle grounds again.
2.Cerberus activates the boom on the krogans home world, that would have brought a huge blow to the krogan, the galaxy's forces, and Shepard's assets.
3. Sanctuary, where Cerberus, not only makes more Reaper ground forces, to serve the reapers, that's right I say the Reapers are controlling the TIM made Reaper forces, and to trick Shepard into Controlling the reapers is possible.
4.Cerberus targeting secret bases, that could help in the war against the Reapers.

Now for the Geth, aw the Geth, they have an important rule in for the reapers too.
You see the Reapers see the Quarians as a threat against the Reapers because of their vast fleet's, so when the reapers learned that the Geth needed help. That's when the Reapers started to help the Geth, but for their own gain,

1. If the Geth Destroy the Quarian fleet's, then the reapers can focus their efforts on Shepard, and the rest of the galaxy.
2.Once the Geth finish off the Quarians, they will us the Geth to help them in the fight with the Galaxy/ Shepard.

Now for the Rachni, they have been forced to help the reapers with their plans, for god know how long. The Rachni wanted to live in peace, but the Reapers didn't think about what they wanted. So they used the Queens songs, and turned the workers into there own private army.

1. If the Reapers have a Rachni on their side, then it will cause the galaxy, to relive the Rachni wars again, and the krogan would be occupied fighting the Rachni again, if they help the galaxy/Shepard.
2.The Rachni can be used as heavy support, and can cause untold chaos.

Now the Reapers forces , are the bulk of the horde of their army. You see while the Reapers use their army's to fight on the front lines, they are actually getting the attention of the races of the galaxy, but it's a diversion.

Like I said up top, the Reapers have more forces than people realize, and why this all happened again.

Reapers= main army

Cerberus=Private army, Harvest collectors, and tools for the Reapers.

The Geth= strike teams, tactical diversions, and provide fleet's and troops, and tools for the Reapers

The Rachni= Cause panic across the galaxy, Provide a supply line of troops for the Reapers, and can get the Krogans attention while the Reapers hit Tuchanka.

The Collectors= Spec Ops teams for the Reapers, Gathers, and take out small Colony's for the Reapers, so that they can set up a base of operations for the Reapers, to plan, and Harvest.

indoctrinated sleeper agents= spies for the Reapers, can tell troops, and people what to do, which leads to surrendering to the Reapers, and feeling like there should be peace between them.

Now I know this has nothing to do with IT, but in some details it get's ride pf bad writing, and helps us understand why the Reapers need ground forces, and others to help them.

[wright1978]

FFZero wrote...

Okay I’ve just got back from the Community Party, had a great time and Chris and Jessica are absolutely lovely people, however on the IT front...things don’t sound good depending on your outlook/interpretation of IT.

Jessica pretty much said the endings we have are 100% final and if we think anything will be added to the endings after the final choice then we have misunderstood things. She equated the ending of ME3 to Schrödinger's cat, it can be IT or it can be literal, neither is right or wrong. She also said something I find quite disturbing. The reason why Synthesis is seen as the best ending by some BW people is the fact that like the Starbrat says, it is inevitable. Synthesis will happen sooner or later. She said if they were to set a Mass Effect game in the future Synthesis will have taken place, either as a consequence of Shepard’s choice or because it’s naturally occurred.

I also brought up how could Shepard survive the explosion on the Citadel and she kind of dodged the question brining up the section seals on the citadel and such. I also asked where Shepard was in the Breath ending and she said that it doesn’t really matter whether Shepard is on the Citadel or somewhere else at this point and when I pointed out the concrete she said there was concrete on the Citadel. When I said that there wasn’t and I’ve looked through the game files to confirm it she dodged the question by saying ‘Well you’re on a new and unknown part of the Citadel’ 

 

Yep i find that extremely disturbing. Why should the galaxy follow the route of an insane idealogical extremist even if you chose an ending where the galaxy is left with a future of freedom to evolve.

Sounds like they were squirming regarding Shep lives scene. Well that's what happens when you put no effort into providing exposition and explanation into into one of the endings in something ironically called an extended cut.

[estebanus]

wright1978 wrote...

FFZero wrote...

Okay I’ve just got back from the Community Party, had a great time and Chris and Jessica are absolutely lovely people, however on the IT front...things don’t sound good depending on your outlook/interpretation of IT.

Jessica pretty much said the endings we have are 100% final and if we think anything will be added to the endings after the final choice then we have misunderstood things. She equated the ending of ME3 to Schrödinger's cat, it can be IT or it can be literal, neither is right or wrong. She also said something I find quite disturbing. The reason why Synthesis is seen as the best ending by some BW people is the fact that like the Starbrat says, it is inevitable. Synthesis will happen sooner or later. She said if they were to set a Mass Effect game in the future Synthesis will have taken place, either as a consequence of Shepard’s choice or because it’s naturally occurred.

I also brought up how could Shepard survive the explosion on the Citadel and she kind of dodged the question brining up the section seals on the citadel and such. I also asked where Shepard was in the Breath ending and she said that it doesn’t really matter whether Shepard is on the Citadel or somewhere else at this point and when I pointed out the concrete she said there was concrete on the Citadel. When I said that there wasn’t and I’ve looked through the game files to confirm it she dodged the question by saying ‘Well you’re on a new and unknown part of the Citadel’ 

 

Yep i find that extremely disturbing. Why should the galaxy follow the route of an insane idealogical extremist even if you chose an ending where the galaxy is left with a future of freedom to evolve.

Sounds like they were squirming regarding Shep lives scene. Well that's what happens when you put no effort into providing exposition and explanation into into one of the endings in something ironically called an extended cut.

It wouldn't be the same ideology. Synthesis is merely the result of a technological singularity reaching its climax. If it occurs naturally, then organics themselves have made this possible, and they could themselves choose whether to become synthorganic or remain organic.

Basically, if it occurs naturally, none of the things present in the synthesis endings would be what actually happens. No glowing green circuits, no freaky eyes, and no goody-goody utopia. A synthesis would then be something comletely different (think of Deus Ex).

[jgibson14352]

ebuchala wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

So with the reverse image Hackett thing...

It's no small feat to fake a QEC transmission. You have to be in possession of one of the transmitters with a set of entangled particles linked to whoever you are transmitting to, unless the Alliance has set up a giant QEC switchboard somewhere (in which case every QEC is entangled to the switchboard).

Didn't someone post that Object Rho was transmitting to Reaper territory using something similar to a QEC transmission? Meaning, the reapers have QEC technology, right? But, is that first transmission from Hacket even using the QEC tech, anyway? Isn't is just a "regular" transmission like they use to communicate with the shuttles?

the call the Normandy gets from Hackett is using QEC tech. there is no way for there to be a signal any other way. one of the reapers first targets when they enter a system is the comm buoys. with out that they cut off any hope of communication, and thus reinforcements or warnings to other systems, to the outside other than QECs. and besides, after the reapers landed on Earth Hackett had already retreated through the relay with the remaining fleets. 
im sure that Hackett being mirrored is a simple mistake that we can easily write off story wise as EDI failing to enhance the signal clearly enough. i generally ignore any ideas about glyph or hackett immediately, thats just pretending there are straws there to grasp, when there arent. the reapers couldnt have faked the signal, it is point to point only and has no signal to interfere with. that and it seems like were forgetting that Shepard and Hackett directly discussed the order to go to Mars later in the game. so i vote we drop anything regarding Hackett and Glyph.

[ebuchala]

NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

Look at how he colors Destroy, what you will "lose" if you schoose to destroy the Reapers and the Starchild.
Personally I think Refuse could go a few ways:
Puzzle Theory Refuse, where Refuse is gradually built up to a success ending instead of the fail-refuse ending. (Sorry if it is'nt Puzzle Theory, I'm working off of memory)
And then you have where Refuse is the ultimate betrayal of Shepard's morals and motivations, instead of making the hard choices (choices he has seen through previously) he gives up.

I guess my point was that if the starbrat is lying about everything else, then there's a good chance that he's also lying about the reapers being destroyed when you choose Destroy. As for how the strabrat describes Destroy, well he's very manipulative--you can see this in pretty much everything he does from taking on a form that he thinks will sway Shepard to feel protective and trusting of to how he phrases just about everything he says. So I don't think it's a stretch for him to consider reverse psychology--starchild expresses his dislike of that option in his wording hoping that Shepard will take the bait and choose that option because he/she knows that reapers don't like it. Almost a back up plan in case portraying himself as THE child doesn't work on Shepard the way the starbrat wanted.

Again, I don't really believe that's the case but since Refuse was added as an option, it does make me reevaluate the other options we were given, because if I'd had the chance to play my Shepard in character during that scene, I would've told the starchild where he could stick the crucible and then found his power supply so I could destroy it.

Regarding your idea about how Refuse could go, I completely agree.

[masster blaster]

Okay also about what I was saying earlier, I wanted to talk more into it though. You see even if Shepard doesn't bring everyone together, the Reapers still win.

1. If you killed the Geth, or Quarians, you helped the Reapers because they have a better chance on taking on Sword, and shield
2.If you sabotage the Cure for the Genophage, you help the Reapers by taking out the one race that can help turn the tide of the war with the Reapers.
3. if you don't do any side missions, then the Reapers get more soldiers, and harvest more races because Shepard didn't go help the people that needed help, and offered assistance to help fight the Reapers.
4.By killing Shepard's friends, and the people he/she has helped, the Reapers by making Shepard a weaker target.

Now this can be reversed if we made peace between the Geth, and Quarians, helped cure the Genophage, and did the side quest, and not kill Shepard's old squad mates.

If the final battle is a trap, then Shepard gathers all of the Army's and Leaders of the galaxy, and makes the reapers jobs very easy for them. You see if all the important, and best army's, and fleets are here, then once the Reapers take every one out, excerpt the Leaders, then they have won the cycle already.

Since Shepard brought every IMPORTANT Leader here, then the Reapers Indoctrinate them, and what the Reapers can do, is pull back all of their forces, and return the Indoctrinated Leaders home, so that they can Lower their guards down, and then the Reapers strike back.

edit; This is only happence if IT is true, if not, then oh well.

Modifié par masster blaster, 21 août 2012 - 08:54 .

[estebanus]

masster blaster wrote...

Okay also about what I was saying earlier, I wanted to talk more into it though. You see even if Shepard doesn't bring everyone together, the Reapers still win.

1. If you killed the Geth, or Quarians, you helped the Reapers because they have a better chance on taking on Sword, and shield
2.If you sabotage the Cure for the Genophage, you help the Reapers by taking out the one race that can help turn the tide of the war with the Reapers.
3. if you don't do any side missions, then the Reapers get more soldiers, and harvest more races because Shepard didn't go help the people that needed help, and offered assistance to help fight the Reapers.
4.By killing Shepard's friends, and the people he/she has helped, the Reapers by making Shepard a weaker target.

Now this can be reversed if we made peace between the Geth, and Quarians, helped cure the Genophage, and did the side quest, and not kill Shepard's old squad mates.

If the final battle is a trap, then Shepard gathers all of the Army's and Leaders of the galaxy, and makes the reapers jobs very easy for them. You see if all the important, and best army's, and fleets are here, then once the Reapers take every one out, excerpt the Leaders, then they have won the cycle already.

Since Shepard brought every IMPORTANT Leader here, then the Reapers Indoctrinate them, and what the Reapers can do, is pull back all of their forces, and return the Indoctrinated Leaders home, so that they can Lower their guards down, and then the Reapers strike back.

1. true. In a certain form. What if Shepard doesn't have a choice but to kill one race off? I know my Shepard certainly didn't.
2. Not true. If you have Wreav as an ally and sabotage the genophage cure, you get the full help of both the salarians and krogan.
3. This kinda follows with being a lazy ass, doesn't it?
4. I don't really understand what you wrote, but true, I guess.

[demersel]

masster blaster wrote...

Okay guys I know already we have talked about this, but i want to shed some light on the Cerberus, Rachni and Geth plot to the Reapers. You see the Reapers know how to fight a war because they have been doing this for countless cycles, but people need to understand why the Geth, Rachni, and Cerberus were fighting for the Reapers.

it starts like this. Harbinger leads the attack on Earth for four reasons.

1. To hurt Shepard's will to fight,
2.So that Humanity can let them create more of them, once they are done harvesting all 11, or so billion humans on Earth.
3 If the Reapers attacked the Citadel, then Humanity would step in and gather everyone to the galaxy, and do more damage than the Reapers can recover from.
4. To plant the seeds of indoctrination, to Shepard/ the player, and maybe Anderson.

Okay now we get into Mars. Cerberus so happened to be there when Shepard arrives, but the weird part is that when we find out the all of Cerberus's troops have been turned into a husk, like in Evolution.

Any ways when we get to meet TIM, he want's the data for his own gain, yet the Reapers are telling TIM what to do, so why is it that the Reapers want TIM to download the Crucible, and not destroy all records of the Crucible, by Destroying the Prothean archives.

Okay later on in the game, we learn that the Reapers are fighting all the ADVANCED races on all fronts, yet even thought they are hard to kill, they know that they can't be every where at once, and find out what the Galaxy's army's/ resistance is planing. So They finish indoctrinating TIM, and build his/ the Reapers private army, to cripple the galaxy's defenses, and gather humans for harvesting for the Reapers.

1. Cerberus try's to take over the Citadel, without alerting the fleets/ everyone on what has happen on the Citadel, and will close the relays, so that the Reapers can now fight there battle grounds again.
2.Cerberus activates the boom on the krogans home world, that would have brought a huge blow to the krogan, the galaxy's forces, and Shepard's assets.
3. Sanctuary, where Cerberus, not only makes more Reaper ground forces, to serve the reapers, that's right I say the Reapers are controlling the TIM made Reaper forces, and to trick Shepard into Controlling the reapers is possible.
4.Cerberus targeting secret bases, that could help in the war against the Reapers.

Now for the Geth, aw the Geth, they have an important rule in for the reapers too.
You see the Reapers see the Quarians as a threat against the Reapers because of their vast fleet's, so when the reapers learned that the Geth needed help. That's when the Reapers started to help the Geth, but for their own gain,

1. If the Geth Destroy the Quarian fleet's, then the reapers can focus their efforts on Shepard, and the rest of the galaxy.
2.Once the Geth finish off the Quarians, they will us the Geth to help them in the fight with the Galaxy/ Shepard.

Now for the Rachni, they have been forced to help the reapers with their plans, for god know how long. The Rachni wanted to live in peace, but the Reapers didn't think about what they wanted. So they used the Queens songs, and turned the workers into there own private army.

1. If the Reapers have a Rachni on their side, then it will cause the galaxy, to relive the Rachni wars again, and the krogan would be occupied fighting the Rachni again, if they help the galaxy/Shepard.
2.The Rachni can be used as heavy support, and can cause untold chaos.

Now the Reapers forces , are the bulk of the horde of their army. You see while the Reapers use their army's to fight on the front lines, they are actually getting the attention of the races of the galaxy, but it's a diversion.

Like I said up top, the Reapers have more forces than people realize, and why this all happened again.

Reapers= main army

Cerberus=Private army, Harvest collectors, and tools for the Reapers.

The Geth= strike teams, tactical diversions, and provide fleet's and troops, and tools for the Reapers

The Rachni= Cause panic across the galaxy, Provide a supply line of troops for the Reapers, and can get the Krogans attention while the Reapers hit Tuchanka.

The Collectors= Spec Ops teams for the Reapers, Gathers, and take out small Colony's for the Reapers, so that they can set up a base of operations for the Reapers, to plan, and Harvest.

indoctrinated sleeper agents= spies for the Reapers, can tell troops, and people what to do, which leads to surrendering to the Reapers, and feeling like there should be peace between them.

Now I know this has nothing to do with IT, but in some details it get's ride pf bad writing, and helps us understand why the Reapers need ground forces, and others to help them.

You forgot to mention that they started with batarians - the most secluded and isolated and secretive race in tha galaxy, so they could prepare the bulk of their strike force. 
Also as they chose humanity for the leading speacies in this cycle (me2 - human reaper etc) - that makes sense that cerberus is the new collectors - that is exactly the thing i was afraid would happen after the end of ME2 and that is why i destroyed the collector base. Also that would explain all the ME2 plot and the shodow broker deal - In mass effect 2 they checked their inventory and decided it was time to have some new toys - so they replaced the shadow broker (maybe yahgs are immnune to indoctrination to some degree) and they also replaced their minions with the new and more able ones (cerberus - i.e. Humans) - and the best thing - you actually help them most of the way. )) Also your death and rebirth in ME2 may also be planned by the reapers - to turn the champion of humanity into a tool of the reapers. (slowly, also they might just be ably to hold a grudge, and have very sadistic sense of humor, while having infinite patience. )  How is exactly you were brought back to life? With reaper tech that cerberus found and decided to test (at lest to some degree the idea of that technology must have been suggested by something found in reaper tech  - in the first game cerberus was known only for finding some tech, or plant, or life form and fusing it with a human to see what happens, and the other thing they were know for - in 100% case they f%ck up, lose control, and everyone involved dies. Or get's killed by you. that tradition continues in ME2 overlord - the project we know was later used by reapers to control the geth directly, after their virus attempt was voiled by you in ME2)   so my theory, after me1 - reapers revise their strategy, and devise a new plan, incorporating humans in it. in between me1 and me2 they start to slowly infuence cerberus, so they would eventually replace the collectors, and by the end of me2 they have cerberus under control (when illusive man tells you to keep the base). in the arrival they also get a cart blanche at Shepard. And also decide to go slowly so they can use shepard as a banner to unite the galaxy around, so they are all in one spot. By this time they also start to influence liara as the new shadow broker (it is not important that it is liara, what is important, that it is a new shadow broker) and thus by the start of me3 they control cerberus, they control rachni again, they control the geth, they control the shodow broker, they control Shepard, and god knows how many others. So , when all their peaces are in place - they come in force TA DAM TAM WE"RE BIG DUMB KILLING MACHINES WHO MAKE LOUD NOISES BEFORE WE SHOOT HA_HA_HA style. 

[masster blaster]

estebanus wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

FFZero wrote...

Okay I’ve just got back from the Community Party, had a great time and Chris and Jessica are absolutely lovely people, however on the IT front...things don’t sound good depending on your outlook/interpretation of IT.

Jessica pretty much said the endings we have are 100% final and if we think anything will be added to the endings after the final choice then we have misunderstood things. She equated the ending of ME3 to Schrödinger's cat, it can be IT or it can be literal, neither is right or wrong. She also said something I find quite disturbing. The reason why Synthesis is seen as the best ending by some BW people is the fact that like the Starbrat says, it is inevitable. Synthesis will happen sooner or later. She said if they were to set a Mass Effect game in the future Synthesis will have taken place, either as a consequence of Shepard’s choice or because it’s naturally occurred.

I also brought up how could Shepard survive the explosion on the Citadel and she kind of dodged the question brining up the section seals on the citadel and such. I also asked where Shepard was in the Breath ending and she said that it doesn’t really matter whether Shepard is on the Citadel or somewhere else at this point and when I pointed out the concrete she said there was concrete on the Citadel. When I said that there wasn’t and I’ve looked through the game files to confirm it she dodged the question by saying ‘Well you’re on a new and unknown part of the Citadel’ 

 

Yep i find that extremely disturbing. Why should the galaxy follow the route of an insane idealogical extremist even if you chose an ending where the galaxy is left with a future of freedom to evolve.

Sounds like they were squirming regarding Shep lives scene. Well that's what happens when you put no effort into providing exposition and explanation into into one of the endings in something ironically called an extended cut.

It wouldn't be the same ideology. Synthesis is merely the result of a technological singularity reaching its climax. If it occurs naturally, then organics themselves have made this possible, and they could themselves choose whether to become synthorganic or remain organic.

Basically, if it occurs naturally, none of the things present in the synthesis endings would be what actually happens. No glowing green circuits, no freaky eyes, and no goody-goody utopia. A synthesis would then be something comletely different (think of Deus Ex).

How do you know that Estebauns? Can you say that we won't have green eyes, and I find it hard to be Synthetic, and Organic without changing the body at all. You say implants make us Synthetic, but that's false. If that's the case then why aren't we not called a Synthetic species, and I can't see Synthesis happen at all.

Synthesis will only change DNA, and that's it, so still how does that happen? I didn't know Synthetic have DNA, nor did I know, that Organics can have no Synthetic part's, without changeing the Body, DNA, nor the mortality, to imortality.

[demersel]

jgibson14352 wrote...

ebuchala wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

So with the reverse image Hackett thing...

It's no small feat to fake a QEC transmission. You have to be in possession of one of the transmitters with a set of entangled particles linked to whoever you are transmitting to, unless the Alliance has set up a giant QEC switchboard somewhere (in which case every QEC is entangled to the switchboard).

Didn't someone post that Object Rho was transmitting to Reaper territory using something similar to a QEC transmission? Meaning, the reapers have QEC technology, right? But, is that first transmission from Hacket even using the QEC tech, anyway? Isn't is just a "regular" transmission like they use to communicate with the shuttles?

the call the Normandy gets from Hackett is using QEC tech. there is no way for there to be a signal any other way. one of the reapers first targets when they enter a system is the comm buoys. with out that they cut off any hope of communication, and thus reinforcements or warnings to other systems, to the outside other than QECs. and besides, after the reapers landed on Earth Hackett had already retreated through the relay with the remaining fleets. 
im sure that Hackett being mirrored is a simple mistake that we can easily write off story wise as EDI failing to enhance the signal clearly enough. i generally ignore any ideas about glyph or hackett immediately, thats just pretending there are straws there to grasp, when there arent. the reapers couldnt have faked the signal, it is point to point only and has no signal to interfere with. that and it seems like were forgetting that Shepard and Hackett directly discussed the order to go to Mars later in the game. so i vote we drop anything regarding Hackett and Glyph.

But that is the point! It isn't QEC! QEC can't have static and image distortion by the way it functions. Also it they never tell you that it is QEC, it is not in the QEC room. And there is now way to get a normal transmission at this moment - reapers a jamming everything except the QEC  - all the more evidence it is fake!

Also Hackett and GLYPH are not connected why should we drop everything about GLYPH? 

Modifié par demersel, 21 août 2012 - 09:05 .

[Big_Boss9]

If the transmission is fake, then why does Hackett not question the follow-up to the Mars mission? Don't buy it. Don't buy the Glyph is evil nonsense either. Not everything in the game has to be boiled down to "because indoctrination" or "because Reapers".

Modifié par Big_Boss9, 21 août 2012 - 09:08 .

[masster blaster]

estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Okay also about what I was saying earlier, I wanted to talk more into it though. You see even if Shepard doesn't bring everyone together, the Reapers still win.

1. If you killed the Geth, or Quarians, you helped the Reapers because they have a better chance on taking on Sword, and shield
2.If you sabotage the Cure for the Genophage, you help the Reapers by taking out the one race that can help turn the tide of the war with the Reapers.
3. if you don't do any side missions, then the Reapers get more soldiers, and harvest more races because Shepard didn't go help the people that needed help, and offered assistance to help fight the Reapers.
4.By killing Shepard's friends, and the people he/she has helped, the Reapers by making Shepard a weaker target.

Now this can be reversed if we made peace between the Geth, and Quarians, helped cure the Genophage, and did the side quest, and not kill Shepard's old squad mates.

If the final battle is a trap, then Shepard gathers all of the Army's and Leaders of the galaxy, and makes the reapers jobs very easy for them. You see if all the important, and best army's, and fleets are here, then once the Reapers take every one out, excerpt the Leaders, then they have won the cycle already.

Since Shepard brought every IMPORTANT Leader here, then the Reapers Indoctrinate them, and what the Reapers can do, is pull back all of their forces, and return the Indoctrinated Leaders home, so that they can Lower their guards down, and then the Reapers strike back.

1. true. In a certain form. What if Shepard doesn't have a choice but to kill one race off? I know my Shepard certainly didn't.
2. Not true. If you have Wreav as an ally and sabotage the genophage cure, you get the full help of both the salarians and krogan.
3. This kinda follows with being a lazy ass, doesn't it?
4. I don't really understand what you wrote, but true, I guess.

1. You did the Geth, and Quarians. All I said is either way if you kill one of them, you help the Reapers, or if you save both races you hurt the Reapers, but you help them if you think Earth/ the Crucible is a trap.

2. I know that, but if Wrex is in charge it's the oppisite, if you Sabatoge the cure.

3. Yes, and Yes, but it does help the Reapers, and hurts you, if you don't have MP.

4. I said  by killing Shepard's old friends, and the people he/she has helped, it weakenss Shepard's will to fight, if you believe in IT, and helps the Reapers.