80611 réponses à ce sujet

[prettz]

look like it's time for some Calibrations:whistle:
www.youtube.com/watch

[demersel]

Good night everyone. It's 8.37 am, at where i am. Read my huge post about the extended cut.

[ebuchala]

demersel wrote...



Are you a troll?  You start to look like one.

Here ya go.

Edited for better video.

Modifié par ebuchala, 22 août 2012 - 04:47 .

[ebuchala]

prettz wrote...

look like it's time for some Calibrations:whistle:
www.youtube.com/watch

Perfect!

[Lokanaiya]

I have to go to bed soon, but a few things before I leave:

1. Please don't pull in game mechanics, real life, and such to argue for Destroy being the only option. (You can't use Doylist points to argue against Watson points) That includes the breath scene, since it's pretty much an instant "I win" card for pro-Destroy people. If Destroy requires an instant win card to justify why it's the only choice, there's something wrong. Not to mention, it's rather circular logic:

Destroy = only right option because breath scene -> Only right option -> breath scene -> only right option, etc.

2. Have you guys seen my post on page 503 regarding refuse? It makes some good points on why Refuse might be only correct choice.

3. The Codex states that the current Reapers don't seem to have the design flaw that lead to Sovereign being disabled when Saren died. To be fair, the codex is often wrong, but we should probably keep that in mind.

[demersel]

ebuchala wrote...

demersel wrote...



Are you a troll?  You start to look like one.

Here ya go.

You do know that the guy who first drew a trollface was a convicted pedophile and serial child killer? And that he drew the trollface on the wall of his cell the night before he was executed. You do know this, right? 

[Codename_Code]

demersel wrote...

byne wrote...

Codename_Code wrote...

I think the destroy option represents shepard's incredible determination, she sees it right there and the catalyst cant cover it, the kid instead keeps it calm and try to talk shepard out of it, use it to his advantage.

In refuse, Shepard talks about dying but dying free, but in this way of thinking she gives up even rejecting the indoc, her brain can take it anymore or cant escape the illusion, cant wake up, the reapers cant use her, she is free and dead.

For me, I see refuse as essentially just doing what TIM and Saren did.

Sure, their goals lined up with control and synthesis respectively, but in the end, they both chose to refuse to obey the Reapers and die free.

By picking refuse, unless further DLC better fleshes it out and makes survival possible through refuse, Shepard is essentially just killing herself as a way of beating indoctrination. Thats why I dont like it as much as destroy, where you break free and live to take the fight to the Reapers.

This! Refuse - is making a speach and blowing your brains out. 
+1

I think The kid choices are the plan B, the Indoctrination attemp level 2.

Shepard real first indoctrination attempt happens with the anderson/TIM scene, she only get 2 choices there : Destroy and control, and Shepard is so badass with her determination to pick destroy that the reapers fails hard, you cant even choose control and it would be easy,  just shoot anderson and join TIM .-  But It is always the right thing at the end : " you did good kid, Im proud ". This gives the destroy option authority, It denotes that it comes from shepard's heart.

What if you get there and only the illusive man is waiting ? this is what happens in the catalyst scene. Shepard is alone and broken, and the catalyst drop the Illusive man lines "you've been thinking about destroy, but  why destroy ? when this other two options are so much better ".

I dont think refuse is the suicide option we see from saren or TIM, since they suicide after they are indoctrinated and they dont really have any option but to press the abort button while they can. To be indoctrinated, or to be free from indoc shepard needs to cooperate, to choose, and in refuse she just rest.

Modifié par Codename_Code, 22 août 2012 - 04:44 .

[ebuchala]

demersel wrote...

You do know that the guy who first drew a trollface was a convicted pedophile and serial child killer? And that he drew the trollface on the wall of his cell the night before he was executed. You do know this, right? 

Ewww, no, I had no idea. I'll switch it to the other video then.

[demersel]

Codename_Code wrote...

demersel wrote...

byne wrote...

Codename_Code wrote...

I think the destroy option represents shepard's incredible determination, she sees it right there and the catalyst cant cover it, the kid instead keeps it calm and try to talk shepard out of it, use it to his advantage.

In refuse, Shepard talks about dying but dying free, but in this way of thinking she gives up even rejecting the indoc, her brain can take it anymore or cant escape the illusion, cant wake up, the reapers cant use her, she is free and dead.

For me, I see refuse as essentially just doing what TIM and Saren did.

Sure, their goals lined up with control and synthesis respectively, but in the end, they both chose to refuse to obey the Reapers and die free.

By picking refuse, unless further DLC better fleshes it out and makes survival possible through refuse, Shepard is essentially just killing herself as a way of beating indoctrination. Thats why I dont like it as much as destroy, where you break free and live to take the fight to the Reapers.

This! Refuse - is making a speach and blowing your brains out. 
+1

I think The kid choices are the plan B, the Indoctrination attemp level 2.

Shepard real first indoctrination attempt happens with the anderson/TIM scene, she only get 2 choices there : Destroy and control, and Shepard is so badass with her determination to pick destroy that the reapers fails hard, you cant even choose control and it would be easy,  just shoot anderson and join TIM .-  But It is always the right thing at the end : " you did good kid, Im proud ". This gives the destroy option authority, It denotes that it comes from shepard's heart.

What if you get there and only the illusive man is waiting ? this is what happens in the catalyst scene. Shepard is alone and broken, and the catalyst drop the Illusive man lines "you've been thinking about destroy, but  why destroy ? when this other two options are so much better ".

I dont think refuse is the suicide option we see from saren or TIM, since they suicide after they are indoctrinated and they dont really have any option but to press the abort button while they can. To be indoctrinated, or to be free from indoc shepard needs to cooperate, to choose, and in refuse she just rest.

I also don't think refuse is suicide option.  I think it is "make-a-speach-then-lie-down-and-wait-to-die-option"

[JasonSic]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

JasonSic wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

WNT has been around for a while. The only reason I'm skeptical on it now is because the breathe scene happens on the Citadel. It's been confirmed it's not rebar but reaper cable.

I gotta see the source on this.

*SNIPPY SNIP*

Compare it to the Rebar in London MP map and Priority Earth, then compare it to this...

http://www.youtube.c...FkTEAM-8#t=301s

I don't like it either, but it is what it is.

Those are reaper cables, no doubt. I was expecting you to show me something that proves Shepard is on the Citadel rather than Earth. I still vote Earth.

Modifié par JasonSic, 22 août 2012 - 05:03 .

[Lokanaiya]

demersel wrote...

ebuchala wrote...

demersel wrote...



Are you a troll?  You start to look like one.

Here ya go.

You do know that the guy who first drew a trollface was a convicted pedophile and serial child killer? And that he drew the trollface on the wall of his cell the night before he was executed. You do know this, right? 

.... So? Even if its shady origins mattered at all, the troll face now belongs to the internet, like it or not. If it makes you angry, I'm not sure what to say, because you'll be encountering it a lot.

[byne]

Lokanaiya wrote...

I have to go to bed soon, but a few things before I leave:

1. Please don't pull in game mechanics, real life, and such to argue for Destroy being the only option. (You can't use Doylist points to argue against Watson points) That includes the breath scene, since it's pretty much an instant "I win" card for pro-Destroy people. If Destroy requires an instant win card to justify why it's the only choice, there's something wrong. Not to mention, it's rather circular logic:

Destroy = only right option because breath scene -> Only right option -> breath scene -> only right option, etc.

2. Have you guys seen my post on page 503 regarding refuse? It makes some good points on why Refuse might be only correct choice.

3. The Codex states that the current Reapers don't seem to have the design flaw that lead to Sovereign being disabled when Saren died. To be fair, the codex is often wrong, but we should probably keep that in mind.

I just read your post. I think you make some good points, but I personally disagree that refuse will help in anyway.

I figure that if you're stubborn enough to let the entire galaxy die right then and there instead of choosing one of the pretty colors, the Reapers realize theres no way they could ever win you over, and just give up on you and kill you. Would explain the whole 'so be it' and the choices simply going away.

In destroy you've stuck to your principles, and while that may give the Reapers a possible way to corrupt you, you've also convinced them you're not entirely beyond reasoning with. In destroy, they may believe indoctrination is still possible, so dont just kill you on the spot, as you're still valuable.

So, while refuse may possibly be the only one where you are completely safe from indoctrination, the Reapers probably realize that too. They realize you no longer have any value to them, and would eliminate you.

[jgibson14352]

just wanted to post a thought i had that the core of IT revolves around the decision chamber being a test. i dont see refuse being a valid option for IT because despite this great speech, it wasnt in the original endings, it was added in the EC. so if you view refuse as the IT exclusive answer, or most importantly, view all of the starchilds options as a trap (i.e. why would he present them if they didnt further his goals somehow) then youre proposing a test with no right answers. thats not a test, its a trap. and if all the endings are a trap, then why choose what kind of trap you fall into? there has to be an escape route, the reapers are messing with Shepards head, hence they cant do whatever they want, otherwise he would already be indoctrinated, so what would the point of a test be?

lemme know if that doesnt make sense, its late.

edit; yea i could have worded that alot better. im not gunna.

Modifié par jgibson14352, 22 août 2012 - 04:54 .

[spotlessvoid]

A MSPaint comic made by deviantArt [1] user Whynne about the pointless nature of trolling on 4Chan’s /v/, was uploaded on September 19th, 2008.


That's the origin of troll face

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

In regards to Destroy, even if it is offered by the Kid, there are quite a few things setting it apart from Synthesis and Control.

A thing to remember is the way the Kid introduces it: "I know you have thought about destroying us."

With this sentence the Kid is essentially acknowledging that this is Shepards choice, not his. But he might still be manipulative off course.

Still though even if he offers the Destroy choice it is also what Shepard always came to do, he is not swaying Shepards opinion or making Shepard think differently about the Reapers with Destroy.

The gun I think is the key to the Destroy option beeing better though. The Reaper code deletion tool in the Geth consensus took the form of a gun, a very curoius thing when you consider that Destroy is the only option of Control, Synthesis and Destroy where Shepard does not drop his gun.

Then there is the whole  gun change thing which could imply a distortion of reality, that Shepard is breaking free.

And then finally off course is the Breath scene, Destroy is the only option we know Shepard survives and that is in spite of what the kid implies.

This is just basics though, you can go more in depth, but these I think are the most compelling pieces for Destroy beeing the right choice, especially the fact that it is what we always came to do. Shepard does not have his views of the Reapers altered by the kid in Destroy.

I dont think the Kid had a choice as to Destroy beeing there as it is Shepards mind fighting Indoctrination, but he can play it down, make shepard pick something else and even if Shepard picks it, the Reapers can stll try again or kill him if Harbinger is looming over him back in the real world.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 22 août 2012 - 04:58 .

[Lokanaiya]

byne wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

I have to go to bed soon, but a few things before I leave:

1. Please don't pull in game mechanics, real life, and such to argue for Destroy being the only option. (You can't use Doylist points to argue against Watson points) That includes the breath scene, since it's pretty much an instant "I win" card for pro-Destroy people. If Destroy requires an instant win card to justify why it's the only choice, there's something wrong. Not to mention, it's rather circular logic:

Destroy = only right option because breath scene -> Only right option -> breath scene -> only right option, etc.

2. Have you guys seen my post on page 503 regarding refuse? It makes some good points on why Refuse might be only correct choice.

3. The Codex states that the current Reapers don't seem to have the design flaw that lead to Sovereign being disabled when Saren died. To be fair, the codex is often wrong, but we should probably keep that in mind.

I just read your post. I think you make some good points, but I personally disagree that refuse will help in anyway.

I figure that if you're stubborn enough to let the entire galaxy die right then and there instead of choosing one of the pretty colors, the Reapers realize theres no way they could ever win you over, and just give up on you and kill you. Would explain the whole 'so be it' and the choices simply going away.

In destroy you've stuck to your principles, and while that may give the Reapers a possible way to corrupt you, you've also convinced them you're not entirely beyond reasoning with. In destroy, they may believe indoctrination is still possible, so dont just kill you on the spot, as you're still valuable.

So, while refuse may possibly be the only one where you are completely safe from indoctrination, the Reapers probably realize that too. They realize you no longer have any value to them, and would eliminate you.

Isn't that what they try to do in Destroy already, though? I'm fairly certain we concluded that in Destroy, Harbinger tries to kill you, and it's only because you have enough forces in high EMS Destroy that you're able to wake up. It should be the same for Reject. Admittedly, why it isn't, I'm not sure.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Lokanaiya wrote...

byne wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

I have to go to bed soon, but a few things before I leave:

1. Please don't pull in game mechanics, real life, and such to argue for Destroy being the only option. (You can't use Doylist points to argue against Watson points) That includes the breath scene, since it's pretty much an instant "I win" card for pro-Destroy people. If Destroy requires an instant win card to justify why it's the only choice, there's something wrong. Not to mention, it's rather circular logic:

Destroy = only right option because breath scene -> Only right option -> breath scene -> only right option, etc.

2. Have you guys seen my post on page 503 regarding refuse? It makes some good points on why Refuse might be only correct choice.

3. The Codex states that the current Reapers don't seem to have the design flaw that lead to Sovereign being disabled when Saren died. To be fair, the codex is often wrong, but we should probably keep that in mind.

I just read your post. I think you make some good points, but I personally disagree that refuse will help in anyway.

I figure that if you're stubborn enough to let the entire galaxy die right then and there instead of choosing one of the pretty colors, the Reapers realize theres no way they could ever win you over, and just give up on you and kill you. Would explain the whole 'so be it' and the choices simply going away.

In destroy you've stuck to your principles, and while that may give the Reapers a possible way to corrupt you, you've also convinced them you're not entirely beyond reasoning with. In destroy, they may believe indoctrination is still possible, so dont just kill you on the spot, as you're still valuable.

So, while refuse may possibly be the only one where you are completely safe from indoctrination, the Reapers probably realize that too. They realize you no longer have any value to them, and would eliminate you.

Isn't that what they try to do in Destroy already, though? I'm fairly certain we concluded that in Destroy, Harbinger tries to kill you, and it's only because you have enough forces in high EMS Destroy that you're able to wake up. It should be the same for Reject. Admittedly, why it isn't, I'm not sure.

Its an idea that Harbinger is trying to kill you in Destroy, an idea with compelling arguments, but it is far from concluded.

[ebuchala]

jgibson14352 wrote...

just wanted to post a thought i had that the core of IT revolves around the decision chamber being a test. i dont see refuse being a valid option for IT because despite this great speech, it wasnt in the original endings, it was added in the EC. so if you view refuse as the IT exclusive answer, or most importantly, view all of the starchilds options as a trap (i.e. why would he present them if they didnt further his goals somehow) then youre proposing a test with no right answers. thats not a test, its a trap. and if all the endings are a trap, then why choose what kind of trap you fall into? there has to be an escape route, the reapers are messing with Shepards head, hence they cant do whatever they want, otherwise he would already be indoctrinated, so what would the point of a test be?

lemme know if that doesnt make sense, its late.

edit; yea i could have worded that alot better. im not gunna.

Actually, you worded it just fine. It's something I mentioned when this whole debate started. If refuse is the only right option, then BW shipped a game with a no-win ending, which would suck. I don't think that refuse is ruled out as a possible solution to IT, though, and I've been enjoying exploring some of the reasons why it might work as a viable option.

[ebuchala]

spotlessvoid wrote...

A MSPaint comic made by deviantArt [1] user Whynne about the pointless nature of trolling on 4Chan’s /v/, was uploaded on September 19th, 2008.


That's the origin of troll face

THANK YOU! 

[demersel]

spotlessvoid wrote...

A MSPaint comic made by deviantArt [1] user Whynne about the pointless nature of trolling on 4Chan’s /v/, was uploaded on September 19th, 2008.


That's the origin of troll face

www.chillhour.com/the-real-truth-about-trollface

[Arashi08]

ebuchala wrote...

demersel wrote...

You do know that the guy who first drew a trollface was a convicted pedophile and serial child killer? And that he drew the trollface on the wall of his cell the night before he was executed. You do know this, right? 

Ewww, no, I had no idea. I'll switch it to the other video then.

To save the thread from nightmares, here's the ACTUAL origin of the trollface
http://knowyourmeme....oolface-problem

you were probably kidding anyway but after reading your post I just HAD to look this up lol

'd practically right above my post lol

Modifié par Arashi08, 22 août 2012 - 06:34 .

[ebuchala]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

In regards to Destroy, even if it is offered by the Kid, there are quite a few things setting it apart from Synthesis and Control.

A thing to remember is the way the Kid introduces it: "I know you have thought about destroying us."

With this sentence the Kid is essentially acknowledging that this is Shepards choice, not his. But he might still be manipulative off course.

Still though even if he offers the Destroy choice it is also what Shepard always came to do, he is not swaying Shepards opinion or making Shepard think differently about the Reapers with Destroy.

The gun I think is the key to the Destroy option beeing better though. The Reaper code deletion tool in the Geth consensus took the form of a gun, a very curoius thing when you consider that Destroy is the only option of Control, Synthesis and Destroy where Shepard does not drop his gun.

Then there is the whole  gun change thing which could imply a distortion of reality, that Shepard is breaking free.

And then finally off course is the Breath scene, Destroy is the only option we know Shepard survives and that is in spite of what the kid implies.

This is just basics though, you can go more in depth, but these I think are the most compelling pieces for Destroy beeing the right choice, especially the fact that it is what we always came to do. Shepard does not have his views of the Reapers altered by the kid in Destroy.

I dont think the Kid had a choice as to Destroy beeing there as it is Shepards mind fighting Indoctrination, but he can play it down, make shepard pick something else and even if Shepard picks it, the Reapers can stll try again or kill him if Harbinger is looming over him back in the real world.

Good point about the gun--plus, isn't Destroy the only option available if your EMS is too low for anything else? Or is Control always available, as well? If it's just destroy, that would almost indicate to me, that it's not an option the starbrat can remove and, therefore, not one that he has control over.

[Lokanaiya]

Alright, I really do need to be getting to sleep. Gah, why must this thread only get busy after midnight my time?

[ebuchala]

Lokanaiya wrote...

Alright, I really do need to be getting to sleep. Gah, why must this thread only get busy after midnight my time?

I'm off, too, cause it's way past my bedtime. I know what you mean, though--I usually show up on the thread after 50 pages of discussion have happened and find lots of things I would've loved to respond to that aren't being discussed anymore.

[byne]

ebuchala wrote...

Good point about the gun--plus, isn't Destroy the only option available if your EMS is too low for anything else? Or is Control always available, as well? If it's just destroy, that would almost indicate to me, that it's not an option the starbrat can remove and, therefore, not one that he has control over.

If you saved the collector base in ME2, only control is available at low EMS.

Kinda interesting that if you didnt choose the destroy ending of ME2, it isnt your default low EMS ending in ME3 either.