80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Kem1995]

Not sure if it's posted yet but CleverNoob has posted a new documentry analysis on the EC. Link is below.

[HellishFiend]

Hrothdane wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Thanks guys! Know you all enjoy it makes it worth the time spent. =)

The production values on the video were really great.

Bonus points for German metal

Thanks! I love Vanden Plas. They are an amazing band, and the lyrics to their songs seem to fit the ME games strangely well...

[The Twilight God]

The Twilight God wrote...

Conclusion

Bioware has affectively indoctrinated the player. The Bioware writers pulled a fast one on many of you. After 100s of hours of game play with the sole focus of stopping the Reapers, in the last ten minute they changed the protagonist's motives from "destroy the reapers" to "assist the Reapers with their galactic social studies assignment." It's a clever way to end the series as indoctrination is the enemy's most insidious weapon. It is fitting that it would constitute Shepard's final obstacle.

As I have illustrated in Parts I thru III of this thesis the Control and Synthesis endings are intended to draw players away from Destroy. Destroy is presented negatively; being the only ending with collateral damage and a return to "chaos", while the other two depict sunshine and butterflies with synthetics and organics living happily ever after. Even the coloration of the decisions are tailored to draw paragon players (who make up the majority) toward Control (blue) and paint Destroy (red) as renegade. Synthesis then takes up the center of the conversation wheel as the "Rally the Crowd" option.

So of course a typical argument against any indoctrination theory is, "But the Extended Cut disproves anything and everything involving indoctrination. Everything turns out great. In fact, things turn out better in the Control and Synthesis endings than they do in Destroy. All Praise the Reapers for their truth and honesty!”

But do things turn out better in Control and Synthesis?

This is never definitely elaborated upon. All of the epilogue slides involve a narrator speaking about what they foresee will happen, want to happen, hope will happen or plan to make happen. The slides do not actually occur in real-time. Nothing in the slides actually occur in-game. It's not set in stone. Even the Stargazer scene, which takes place in an unspecified place and time, involving an unspecified species is ambiguous. The Stargazer says, "Some of the details have been lost in time. It all happened so very long ago" so for all we know whatever ending the player chooses is just his telling of the legend. Even if the player chooses Control or Synthesis, Destroy can still be what actually occurred "so very long ago". Also, we don't know what occurred between the end of ME3 and the Stargazer scene. It's possible the galaxy, in another cycle, had to battle the "Shreapards" or there was a guerilla war to break free from synthesis indoctrination (Matrix style).

Another argument is the blurb which pops up after every ending states "Congratulations on bringing an end to the Reaper threat..." First, this is something that exists outside the game itself. It's in the same category as the main screen where you pick New Game, Load Game, etc. Second, it says the same thing after the Refuse ending in which nothing Shepard nor the player does brings an end to the Reaper threat.

Control

The only thing we know occurs in real-time regarding the Reapers is that they cease their immediate attack and begin repairs on the relays. The narrator is speaking about what they will do; Not what has been done. The epilogue may be narrated by a Shepard flavored Starbinger whose goals are identical to its predecessor. When it says it will give the many hope and a voice in their future, when it says it will protect the many, it could very well mean ascending them into reaper form to protect them from being forever lost in a hypothetical synthetic ushered apocalypse. Or it could be a delusional Shepard within the great Reaper super consciousness deceived into believing it is in control. And although it has a positive outlook for the future, none of it ever comes to pass.

During the conversation on the Citadel with The Illusive Man, Shepard can say, "Then open the arms, let the Crucible dock, and use it to end this."
The Illusive Man 's reply to this is, "I... I will."

The entire narration by the Shepard AI in the epilogue amounts to "I will do this and that", not "I have done this and that".

Shepard then goads The Illusive man shouting, "Do it!"
The Illusive Man reacts by saying, " I... know it will work."
Shepard continues to taunt him with, "You can't can you? They won't let you do it."
The Illusive Man protests, "No, I'm in control. No one is telling me what to do."


The Shepard AI is convinced that it is in control.

The Illusive Man continues his protests, "No. No! The two of you, so self-righteous. Do you think power like this comes easy? There are sacrifices..."

Apparently, Control supporters think it is easy.

Shepard: You sacrificed too much.
TIM: Shepard: I... I only wanted to protect humanity. The Crucible can control them. I know it can. I just...

Yes, and the Shepard AI also wants to protect humanity. But can it?

Imagine if an ending to Mass Effect 3 was The Illusive Man shooting Anderson and Shepard dead followed by a near identical narration to the Shepard AI. Just substitute The Illusive Man's voice for Shepard's voice. How confident would you be that the galaxy was truly safe? So why should we be sure that the galaxy is any better or worse under Shepard, who has an astonishing change in opinion on Control five minutes after opposing it? Factor in his use of a reaper device that makes no sense functioning as advertised. It has been established in Part II of this thesis that there is no reason whatsoever for the Reapers to construct a device that relinquishes their ability to pursue their intended goals. There is simply no way anything good can come of Control. It is a narrative and thematic nigh impossibility. Any cease-fire can only have been temporary. The Reapers would inevitably continue the harvest once the relay network was reestablished. Given the power of their forces such an interlude isn't detrimental to them and with the Citadel firmly in their control resistance is all but eliminated. The relays could have simply been a higher priority. They had to be fixed at some point anyway and this way they have more manpower to repair them vs. waiting until after the fighting is concluded. The writers perpetuate the indoctrinated perspective on the player even after the credits have rolled.


Eternal. Infinite. Immortal.
The man I was used these words, but only now do I truly understand them.
Through his death, I was created. Through my birth, his thoughts are freed. They guide me now, give me reason, direction.
There is power in control. There is wisdom in harnessing the strengths of your enemy.

Here I'll end it with Shepard reiterating The Illusive Man's reaper induced views about controlling them. Not unsurprising that now he "understands" after his interaction with the reaper device. His "understanding" appears nothing more than the same erroneous self image we've seen before from the likes of Sovereign and Harbinger.

Created, and yet infinite? Simply multi-present and yet infinite? Immortal and yet killable? If he understands these words, why do they betray him?

Reapers are not infinite. Not individually or collectively. They have a beginning and they have all the time in the universe to find an end. Ask Sovereign. It made the same assumption about itself before it was destroyed.


Synthesis


"My mind is still my own... for now. But the transformation from ally to servant can be subtle."
"Sovereign's manipulating you and you don't even know it! You're already under its power!"

The epilogue slides are narrated by a reaper influenced EDI whose perceives the galaxy in the way the Reapers desire her to. Like the Control narrator, EDI speaks in terms of what will be; not what is. EDI seems sure that peace will reign across the galaxy in a grand utopia. Dr. Kenson also envisioned this Reaper ushered utopia while she was indoctrinated. Saren envisioned a grand destiny for organics brought on by synthesis while under the influence of indoctrination. How does EDI arrive at this conclusion if everyone's free will remains intact? Why would she assume anything will be different if no one has been fundamentally changed psychologically? She has to know something we don't, consciously or otherwise.

I conclude that free will as we know it, the "petty freedoms" that Saren points out, are removed from the equation. This can be taken as a good or bad thing. One could argue that we never had free will. We act and react according to chemistry. Mother Nature dictates our motivations and the illusion of choice is merely our predisposition to identify with the will of nature. Instead of maintaining conscious objectivity and knowing "this form requires chemical energy", we are identified with the natural world and think, "I am hungry". But in nature there is the survival of the fittest. Traits designed to make us successful in a dog eat dog world. There is fear, selfishness and anger. These are things which result in conflict and suffering. Instead of mother nature to guide our supposed free will the Reapers guide it in a way that is more appropriate for our level of advancement. Synthesis is therefore not an abrogation of free will. As there was never any genuine free will to begin with. Synthesis is therefore the replacement of an outdated pre-industrial psychology for a newer, more appropriate, psychology for the modern age. You will still have people who are certain that they are special and different than every other creature in the natural order. They will insist they do, in fact, possess genuine free will and will view the Reaper modifications as an abrogation of their supposed right to self-determinate. Ignorance is bliss. But some people will insist that ignorance is immoral. Ultimately, it is up to the player to decide if Synthesis is good or bad.

Of course, this all hinges on rather or not the cycle continues or the Reapers view the current situation as satisfactory. It has been established in Part III of this thesis that Synthesis is not the Reapers' ideal outcome. Is there a possibility that the Reapers will continue the cycle in a non-violent manner or work to reverse synthesis so that life, and the cycles, can continue as it was? Conceivably, yes, but there is nothing in the ending to substantiate the claim definitively. But it seems likely to me. For one, ALL life is synthesized. Therefore, evolution has been stifled throughout the entire galaxy. The cavemen of our day will forever be cavemen. The toad lizards of Omicron Persei 8 may never evolve into the space faring Omicronian race as their DNA is "perfected" in synthesis. Plants and beasts cease to adapt and change. The possible advent of immortality may result in a return to the cycles for the sake of population control. The only difference being that everyone agrees to become Reapers. That or all life is halted as is and no new life is ever allowed to come to fruition. Both are unappealing in my opinion. Where Control is definitely a continuation of the cycle, Synthesis is more vague in terms of exactly what happens next. Regardless, the writers perpetuate the indoctrinated perspective on the player even after the credits have rolled.

Overall, I would say that Destroy is Freedom, Synthesis is Enslavement and Control is Destruction. Refuse represents Defeatism which is the antithesis of the entire series.


Why deceive the player?

If Control and Synthesis ended like the Refusal Ending it would invalidate those endings for the majority of players. Refuse was only added because players requested the option (albeit with a different outcome in mind). The player must be allowed to believe in the endings or else everyone would simply reload and pick Destroy. It would defeat the effort put into making the endings. Shepard falling prey to indoctrination, although not the ideal conclusion, is still a narratively sound outcome. And in this way the writers keep those endings valid by having the epilogue continue from the indoctrinated perspective. Who would pick an indoctrinated ending otherwise? Not many.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 25 août 2012 - 12:26 .

[smokingotter1]

Dat text.

[masster blaster]

byne you here?

[byne]

masster blaster wrote...

byne you here?

No.

[FreddyCast]

Hey guys, I just watched Julian's Doc on EC, and the Choose Wisely Episode 1. They are gonna be hard to top. But I won't disappoint you guys. The IT has never been stronger than now.

[Big_Boss9]

Hellish, well done, sir (And Turbo as well, of course). Perfect timing just before Leviathan and more than made up for the lackluster weekend operation. I look forward to future installments.

byne wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

byne you here?

No.

LMAO

Modifié par Big_Boss9, 25 août 2012 - 01:23 .

[masster blaster]

Okay byne, what did you think of Hellish, and Turbo's video, and Julian's?

[masster blaster]

FreddyCast wrote...

Hey guys, I just watched Julian's Doc on EC, and the Choose Wisely Episode 1. They are gonna be hard to top. But I won't disappoint you guys. The IT has never been stronger than now.

Cool.

[byne]

masster blaster wrote...

Okay byne, what did you think of Hellish, and Turbo's video, and Julian's?

Havent watched them yet. Sort of busy at the moment. Will watch them later.

[masster blaster]

byne wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Okay byne, what did you think of Hellish, and Turbo's video, and Julian's?

Havent watched them yet. Sort of busy at the moment. Will watch them later.

Okay, and how is it going.

[byne]

masster blaster wrote...

byne wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Okay byne, what did you think of Hellish, and Turbo's video, and Julian's?

Havent watched them yet. Sort of busy at the moment. Will watch them later.

Okay, and how is it going.

Pretty good. You?

[smokingotter1]

Hey if anyone wants to add me MP this weekend I'm free. Also I suck at MP.... short paws.

[HellishFiend]

[quote]Big_Boss9 wrote...

Hellish, well done, sir (And Turbo as well, of course). Perfect timing just before Leviathan and more than made up for the lackluster weekend operation. I look forward to future installments.


[/quote]

Thanks! And we look forward to providing them.  We're starting work on episode 2 immediately, and now that we've got the heavy-hitter episode 1 out of the way, the turnaround between episodes should be much shorter from now on.  That doesnt mean there will be a drop in quality, just that the production will go a lot quicker and smoother when we can focus on individual topics rather than the broad spectrum of things we needed to cover in the first installment. 

For anyone lacking the link, here you go:


[quote]HellishFiend wrote...

Hey everyone! Choose Wisely Episode 1 is finally here. I am extremely happy to finally be able to share this with you guys. It's been an interesting 2 months since I released the pilot video for Choose Wisely on the day before the EC, and the landscape for the Indoctrination Theory has changed and evolved in many ways since then. It's been a blast making this video, and I hope you all enjoy watching it as much as I enjoyed making it. 

The fact of the matter is, in light of the EC, the themes that will be covered in Choose Wisely are now more relevant than ever. Big things are coming, the first of which will be on this Tuesday. The sooner we get to the bottom of what's really going on, the sooner we can Choose Wisely.


Choose Wisely - Episode 1

Turbo J's Channel
HellishFiend's Channel

These videos will be posted on both channels, with alternating channels being the "featured" channel for future episodes (meaning, the video will come out on the "featured" channel the day before it comes out on the other channel"), so make sure to subscribe to both of us!

I look forward to sharing many more of these with you in the coming months!

[/quote]
[/quote] 

[masster blaster]

byne wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

byne wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Okay byne, what did you think of Hellish, and Turbo's video, and Julian's?

Havent watched them yet. Sort of busy at the moment. Will watch them later.

Okay, and how is it going.

Pretty good. You?

Getting ready to go back to school. As well as Loka, and Dwaliling I think?

[masster blaster]

smokingotter1 wrote...

Hey if anyone wants to add me MP this weekend I'm free. Also I suck at MP.... short paws.

PC??

[N7L4D]

byne wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

byne wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Okay byne, what did you think of Hellish, and Turbo's video, and Julian's?

Havent watched them yet. Sort of busy at the moment. Will watch them later.

Okay, and how is it going.

Pretty good. You?

Hey, you ever wonder why we are here?

[smokingotter1]

masster blaster wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

Hey if anyone wants to add me MP this weekend I'm free. Also I suck at MP.... short paws.

PC??

Yeah, I know you are 360.....
If you're an ITer today it's all stars tonight. We got new videos, fresh speculations. Old ITers coming back to the fray.... I have new cups to stack, everything is right with the world right now



Only thing I'm missing is Arian telling me I'm wrong for some reason. And Simon bringing up an excellent point. Tonight is our night ITers

Modifié par smokingotter1, 25 août 2012 - 01:51 .

[Jere85]

Ohh a new vid, watching now Hellish

[spotlessvoid]

N7l4D.....did you just ask Byne the meaning of Life? Cause I love our venerable OP as much as the next guy but ...lol

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 25 août 2012 - 01:50 .

[masster blaster]

smokingotter1 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

Hey if anyone wants to add me MP this weekend I'm free. Also I suck at MP.... short paws.

PC??

Yeah, I know you are 360.....
If you're an ITer today it's all stars tonight. We got new videos, fresh speculations. Old ITers coming back to the fray.... I have new cups to stack, everything is right with the world right now



Only thing I'm missing is Arian telling me I'm wrong for some reason. And Simon bringing up an excellent point. Tonight is our night ITers

I have ME3, ME2, and ME1 for teh PC, so what is your origion id, so I can add you to my friends list.

Also nice out Otter.

Modifié par masster blaster, 25 août 2012 - 01:58 .

[byne]

N7L4D wrote...

byne wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

byne wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Okay byne, what did you think of Hellish, and Turbo's video, and Julian's?

Havent watched them yet. Sort of busy at the moment. Will watch them later.

Okay, and how is it going.

Pretty good. You?

Hey, you ever wonder why we are here?

Church still has the best answer to that question ever.

Words to live by.

[smokingotter1]

masster blaster wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

Hey if anyone wants to add me MP this weekend I'm free. Also I suck at MP.... short paws.

PC??

Yeah, I know you are 360.....
If you're an ITer today it's all stars tonight. We got new videos, fresh speculations. Old ITers coming back to the fray.... I have new cups to stack, everything is right with the world right now



Only thing I'm missing is Arian telling me I'm wrong for some reason. And Simon bringing up an excellent point. Tonight is our night ITers

I have ME3, ME2, and ME1 for teh PC, so what is your origion id, so I can add you to my friends list.

Well beware, my u/n is pretty obscure might be hard to remember....smokingotter

Lol.....sorry I can be kind of a douche. It's an otter thing.

Modifié par smokingotter1, 25 août 2012 - 02:00 .

[masster blaster]

I think we can all say we got this today from the two videos today....



Also if you watch the whole video, Mordin has some interesting things to say, that are turned opposite in Synthesis.

.

Modifié par masster blaster, 25 août 2012 - 02:13 .