80611 réponses à ce sujet

[paxxton]

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

What really buffles me, is why th IT is still a theory? I mean even ONE solid evidence is enough for it to be proven, and at this point we have like five or six of them, that simply cannot be disputed or denied.

Because Indoctrination Theory sounds better than Indoctrination Law?

I'm don't mean the name. What i mean is how is it still not canon? 

Maybe it's always been but we just don't know it. BioWare keeps it a surprise.

[demersel]

Norlond wrote...

Analogy: The theory of relativity is still a theory, but has been proven a lot of times

Again, I'm not talking about catchy names. I'm talking about why people, the players, still violently bash anything IT related? And there is SO much  anger there...

[paxxton]

demersel wrote...

Norlond wrote...

Analogy: The theory of relativity is still a theory, but has been proven a lot of times

Again, I'm not talking about catchy names. I'm talking about why people, the players, still violently bash anything IT related? And there is SO much  anger there...

Analogy: Theory of Evolution.

[Norlond]

demersel wrote...

Norlond wrote...

Analogy: The theory of relativity is still a theory, but has been proven a lot of times

Again, I'm not talking about catchy names. I'm talking about why people, the players, still violently bash anything IT related? And there is SO much  anger there...

I guess it's a matter of perspective and personal satisfaction, as BW said, you can't make everyone happy. And then there's the fact that this is the internet, where some people think they are the only ones who have the right and valid opinion and point of view and need do defend it at all costs
It's sad, really

Modifié par Norlond, 25 août 2012 - 05:38 .

[Bill Casey]

demersel wrote...

Again, I'm not talking about catchy names. I'm talking about why people, the players, still violently bash anything IT related? And there is SO much  anger there...

NO! I'M IN CONTROL! NOBODY'S TELLING ME WHAT TO DO!

[demersel]

Bill Casey wrote...

demersel wrote...

Again, I'm not talking about catchy names. I'm talking about why people, the players, still violently bash anything IT related? And there is SO much  anger there...

NO! I'M IN CONTROL! NOBODY'S TELLING ME WHAT TO DO!

Good point. 

[munnellyladt]

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/13829489

Found this topic,there is actually a literalist that sort of supports us.

[Arashi08]

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

Norlond wrote...

Analogy: The theory of relativity is still a theory, but has been proven a lot of times

Again, I'm not talking about catchy names. I'm talking about why people, the players, still violently bash anything IT related? And there is SO much  anger there...

Analogy: Theory of Evolution.

Personally I think these things are still theories and not say, laws is because we don't have a complete understanding of these concepts and how they work.  Gravity for example is still a theory because we see the end result of its influence, but still don't understand what it actually IS.  Same with evolution and relativity, we see evidence of it taking place but we still don't completely understand it and that's why debates rage over these subjects just like with IT.  We have evidence that supports this theory but we have no concrete proof, nor do we have the intention of BioWare to confirm it.

If/when we get the whole picture for these theories it might change the idea behind them completely, IT included, So hopefully BW will reveal the truth one way or another, to indulge the minds of so many scientific observers here (myself not included.)

[demersel]

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

Norlond wrote...

Analogy: The theory of relativity is still a theory, but has been proven a lot of times

Again, I'm not talking about catchy names. I'm talking about why people, the players, still violently bash anything IT related? And there is SO much  anger there...

Analogy: Theory of Evolution.

www.youtube.com/watch

It's a nice story, i just think it's a little too easy. I just don't buy it. 

[BansheeOwnage]

Norlond wrote...
*edit* top again, banshee and este won't be amused

>:/

[demersel]

I just came up with an image: God coming out on a press conference and saying "Yep, Evolution - is true."

[Norlond]

demersel wrote...

I just came up with an image: God coming out on a press conference and saying "Yep, Evolution *puts on sunglasses* - is true."

Fixed

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Norlond wrote...
*edit* top again, banshee and este won't be amused

>:/

I'm so sorry ... Not

[BansheeOwnage]

demersel wrote...

What really buffles me, is why th IT is still a theory? I mean even ONE solid evidence is enough for it to be proven, and at this point we have like five or six of them, that simply cannot be disputed or denied. 


I mean come on! The game STARTS with shepard whatching the child - that means that his struggle agains the indoctrination is the MAIN theme of the game. this is what the game is about. The rest - galactic war, gathering allies building the crucible - is just filler. 

And really, put yourself in the developers shoes - you spend more than a year of your life, each day making this game about indoctrination of shepard, making it a first person expierience. And then when the game comes out - I garantee - you'll be genuinly surpise how a person manages not to get it? What's there NOT to understand? And at the same time you can't really come out and say "well, duh, indoctrination. You really didn't get it? man, you're dumb.... you need to do something about that, read a book, maybe..."

Hey were talking about something interesting! ITers can finally argue with each other over something!

Okay everyone, try to think about it the other way around: The haven't confirmed or denied the literal interpretaion of the endings. The literal interpretation lacks evidence, requires more straw-grasping, breaks the themes and lore of the games, and brings up countless plotholes and contradictions. It also renders many of the things the the entire series (as well as ME3) specifically useless.

The indoctrination interpretation of the endings is backed up by an extremely large amount of evidence, requires no straw-grasping (depending on the IT subcategory you are talking about), supports and fits with the established themes and lore of the games, and renders virtually all of the plotholes of the literal interpretation void. It also fits perfectly with certain events and themes which would have otherwise been for nothing.

My point is why should we have to prove anything? The literalists need to "prove" that their interpretation is "true". Bioware never confirmed nor denied whether or not the literalist interpretation is true, so why is it that the one that makes more sense gets bashed so much more? I really hate people What do you guys think of this?

[demersel]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

demersel wrote...

What really buffles me, is why th IT is still a theory? I mean even ONE solid evidence is enough for it to be proven, and at this point we have like five or six of them, that simply cannot be disputed or denied. 


I mean come on! The game STARTS with shepard whatching the child - that means that his struggle agains the indoctrination is the MAIN theme of the game. this is what the game is about. The rest - galactic war, gathering allies building the crucible - is just filler. 

And really, put yourself in the developers shoes - you spend more than a year of your life, each day making this game about indoctrination of shepard, making it a first person expierience. And then when the game comes out - I garantee - you'll be genuinly surpise how a person manages not to get it? What's there NOT to understand? And at the same time you can't really come out and say "well, duh, indoctrination. You really didn't get it? man, you're dumb.... you need to do something about that, read a book, maybe..."

Hey were talking about something interesting! ITers can finally argue with each other over something!

Okay everyone, try to think about it the other way around: The haven't confirmed or denied the literal interpretaion of the endings. The literal interpretation lacks evidence, requires more straw-grasping, breaks the themes and lore of the games, and brings up countless plotholes and contradictions. It also renders many of the things the the entire series (as well as ME3) specifically useless.

The indoctrination interpretation of the endings is backed up by an extremely large amount of evidence, requires no straw-grasping (depending on the IT subcategory you are talking about), supports and fits with the established themes and lore of the games, and renders virtually all of the plotholes of the literal interpretation void. It also fits perfectly with certain events and themes which would have otherwise been for nothing.

My point is why should we have to prove anything? The literalists need to "prove" that their interpretation is "true". Bioware never confirmed nor denied whether or not the literalist interpretation is true, so why is it that the one that makes more sense gets bashed so much more? I really hate people What do you guys think of this?

Exactly. But their ony argument is " But that's what happens in the game?", which can be easily countered by short "Was it?" 

By the way, the IT also fixes another problem - the one that made Smudboy so agitated - "What was the point of mass effect 2?" - 

[Arian Dynas]

IT is a theory like gravity and evolution are a theory.

We have tons of evidence available, but we can't conclusively prove it, and so the creationists (oops sorry, reductionists, wrong argument.) hang on our every word trying to reduce our argument by using minutiae to their advantage by twisting our words.

[jojon2se]

Modifié par jojon2se, 25 août 2012 - 06:43 .

[Norlond]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

My point is why should we have to prove anything? The literalists need to "prove" that their interpretation is "true". Bioware never confirmed nor denied whether or not the literalist interpretation is true, so why is it that the one that makes more sense gets bashed so much more? I really hate people What do you guys think of this?

They don't see the need to prove anything, because usually a literalists point of view doesn't need any explanation because everything is already there.
Now they don't get the point that they actually need to prove their interpretation (I think I don't have to explain why).
In my opinion, that's the source of all the hating against us

*edit* +1 for jojos pic

*edit 2* and what Arian said

Modifié par Norlond, 25 août 2012 - 06:19 .

[BansheeOwnage]

Arian Dynas wrote...

IT is a theory like gravity and evolution are a theory.

We have tons of evidence available, but we can't conclusively prove it, and so the creationists (oops sorry, reductionists, wrong argument.) hang on our every word trying to reduce our argument by using minutiae to their advantage by twisting our words.

Hey Arian, haven't seen you in a while.  Also, I agree with what you said (obviously).

[ebuchala]

Dam0299 wrote...


I am not sure if you are aware Masster, but While Garrus and Tali are both Dextro based DNA, they are incapable of having children due to differant biolodgy (among other things im sure). Krogan,Drell, Elcor, Humans, Salarians, are all Levo Dna but i dont see any Kromans running around. Asari are capable of differant species reproduction due to their unusual reproduction (from what i can tell its a very complex type of parthenogenesis) 

Ok, so being a pretty non-scientific sort of person, I did suspect there would be problems with interspecies breeding, no matter what the dna base. But I did find this article rather amusing (and interesting) regarding the dextro and levo based species intermingling and eating each other's food. I had remembered running across a comment from a biologist in a ME article somewhere stating that humans currently consume dextro-amino foods--this article covers that info in a bit more detail (not just related to foods, either, if you know what I mean ).

[demersel]

On another topic: in the Leviathan trailer there is reaper attacking kodiac shuttle in a stormy, raine weather. I think it's safe to assume that it is the Leviathan (cause we know, that he's there on this planet). The only other possibility is that's its a reaper that also came searching for the leviathan and in the end of the DLC Leviathan (whatever he is) fights it.

[Arian Dynas]

Been sucked into one thing or another lately.

*HUG* how're you?

[BansheeOwnage]

jojon2se wrote...

Nice! Can I get a link to that picture in full size?

Subnote: I've noticed a lot of the people on the IT thread are atheists. It makes perfect sense considering what we do here. (No disrespect to any religious people here.)

[BansheeOwnage]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Been sucked into one thing or another lately.

*HUG* how're you?

*HUG BACK* Good. I'm just waiting for Leviathan. Not long now!

[demersel]

Arian Dynas wrote...

IT is a theory like gravity and evolution are a theory.

We have tons of evidence available, but we can't conclusively prove it, and so the creationists (oops sorry, reductionists, wrong argument.) hang on our every word trying to reduce our argument by using minutiae to their advantage by twisting our words.

Well, just for the sake of it. Speaking of creatinalists - they have 1 sound argument - why can't the evolution be the tool that god chose to use to create? )) You see, from the mathematical point of view the evolution is happenning too fast for it to be a chain of random coincidence. 

[BansheeOwnage]

demersel wrote...

On another topic: in the Leviathan trailer there is reaper attacking kodiac shuttle in a stormy, raine weather. I think it's safe to assume that it is the Leviathan (cause we know, that he's there on this planet). The only other possibility is that's its a reaper that also came searching for the leviathan and in the end of the DLC Leviathan (whatever he is) fights it.

Yes, that was interesting. It could be a reaper that is trying to stop Shepard from finding Leviathan/trying to kill Leviathan. Maybe Leviathan will kill it? That would be and awesome thing to see! Like the thresher maw killing the destroyer! I have a feeling Shepard's squad will be saved by Leviathan in one form or another. Something like this:
Shepard's squad is holding out on the ship, waiting for Shepard to return. (We know this; it was in the trailer.)
As Shepard is talking with Leviathan, the squad is almost overrun.
Shepard manages to convince Leviathan to help her/him, and it assumes control of some of the reaper units above. (Again, we saw this in the trailer.)
After that, maybe it kills the reaper capital ship!