80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Andromidius]

Glad we're all having similar thoughts here. My initial reaction to the DLC has passed now, and I'm starting to find it interesting.

Still not worth buying though. Not until I have my proper ending. Then I'll buy everything in one go as a thankyou.

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

StElmo wrote...

Leviathan's explanation of the reapers is essentially goading him into the final indoctrination attempt. Maybe the leviathan is a reaper construct to indoctrinate shepard? Still makes sense over the literal interpretation of that DLC.

One thing that worries me is how Shepard seemed so... OK with Leviathans joining everyone.

It really pushes the idea that, in some way, Shepard is working for the Leviathan, like how TIM may be working for Harbinger and Saren worked for Sovereign.

So I'm concerned with that and any implications of it.

Leviathan: I'm going to keep you down here forever as my slave, Shepard!
Shepard: No wait, lets be BFFs!
Leviathan: Ok.

Yeah, that was kind of weird.

Well they found Leviathan, which means the end of their race. He had no choice.

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...


Well they found Leviathan, which means the end of their race. He had no choice.

Did you take the husk head as a pet, Epyon?

[Andromidius]

Its actually hinted somewhat that there isn't just those three Leviathans, since they hide all over the Galaxy. Though that could just be me overthinking it.

Would sort of make sense for those three to help anyway, even though they demonstrated that being found means nothing since they one shot a Reaper Dreadnought that was coming close to them. Selfish self-preservation and all that.

[Hrothdane]

SwobyJ wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

byne wrote...

Maybe its actually Levvy indoctrinating you, not Harby?

That's possible.  Trick Shepard into using the Crucible to bring the Reapers back under the control of their original masters, destroy the Reapers (hense why they don't really give a damn if you do it) or space magic for whatever reason.  And they get angry (and use their scary deep Leviathan voice) if you refuse to do anything.

Makes more sense.  Always bothered me why the Reapers seemingly didn't mind being destroyed or controlled.

Oh my god.

OH my god.

This would be an interesting idea because:
A: The fact that the mysteriousness of the Reapers is gone is no longer a problem.
B: We get a new, even MORE dangerously cunning enemy.
C: The problem of finding a villain to live up to the Reaper threat in the inevitable sequel will be solved.
D: The reason we even get offered a destroy option that actually works becomes clearer.

Not saying it is or aught to be the case at this point, but the implications would be quite interesting.

[Eryri]

Hrothdane wrote...


This would be an interesting idea because:
A: The fact that the mysteriousness of the Reapers is gone is no longer a problem.
B: We get a new, even MORE dangerously cunning enemy.
C: The problem of finding a villain to live up to the Reaper threat in the inevitable sequel will be solved.
D: The reason we even get offered a destroy option that actually works becomes clearer.

Not saying it is or aught to be the case at this point, but the implications would be quite interesting.

Agreed. I'm starting to like this idea. The only point I would raise is, why would the Leviathans want synthesis? Wouldn't they be afflicted with horrible, tacky, day-glow green bits as well? Or maybe it will amplify their mind control powers?

Modifié par Eryri, 28 août 2012 - 09:35 .

[FreddyCast]

byne wrote...

Also, Thane needs to stop calling Shep Siha in her dreams. I didnt even romance him.

Thane had a secret crush on Femshep

[StElmo]

Eryri wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

byne wrote...

Maybe its actually Levvy indoctrinating you, not Harby?

That's possible.  Trick Shepard into using the Crucible to bring the Reapers back under the control of their original masters, destroy the Reapers (hense why they don't really give a damn if you do it) or space magic for whatever reason.  And they get angry (and use their scary deep Leviathan voice) if you refuse to do anything.

Makes more sense.  Always bothered me why the Reapers seemingly didn't mind being destroyed or controlled.

Oh my god.

OH my god.

This would be an interesting idea because:
A: The fact that the mysteriousness of the Reapers is gone is no longer a problem.
B: We get a new, even MORE dangerously cunning enemy.
C: The problem of finding a villain to live up to the Reaper threat in the inevitable sequel will be solved.
D: The reason we even get offered a destroy option that actually works becomes clearer.

Not saying it is or aught to be the case at this point, but the implications would be quite interesting.

Agreed. I'm starting to like this idea. The only point I would raise is, why would the Leviathans want synthesis? Wouldn't they be afflicted with horrible, tacky, day-glow green bits as well? Or maybe it will amplify their mind control powers?

Also, space magic still exists if these three options are indeed happening.

This still has to be part of a dream.

[GethPrimeMKII]

MaximizedAction wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Exactly. Don't believe the nonsense literalists and the catalyst will feed you. The reapers are not here to referee an ageless struggle between organics and synthetics. They are predators. Predators with millions of years of practice. It stands to reason that they'd have counter-measure after counter measure after counter-measure to deal with anything that could go wrong. That 50000 year cycle is noting more than a feeding/reproductive cycle. 

Then where would that AI fit into the reproductive cycle? If the Reapers and thus the harvest are its solution to the organics vs. synthetics conflict, why do they need to reproduce in the form of harvesting?

Was that a necessary design choice to make it on the one hand a solution in the sense of its programming, and on the other hand be something that is neither an organic nor a synthetic, and by that, to make it efficient, use the harvesting as a form of reproduction in numbers...

Have a self organising system that merely does what it 'has' to do, no matter what 'lower species' think of it.

         Again, I havent played Leviathan yet, so lets remember this conversation and we'll pick it up with more depth when I have (Might be tomorrow).

          For now I'm willing to speculate that if there is an AI, Shepard does not meet it in the ending. It makes more sense now for Shepard to encounter what he believes to be a reaper AI within his hallucination, given the knowledge Leviathan gives him. We've already established, with significant evidence, that the hallucination is entirely formed out of Shepard's memories and knowledge. So why can't this knowledge about an AI play a part in the hallucination?

         I believe the cycles are more a reproductive/feeding cycle rather than an attempt to intervene in the organic vs synthetic conflict. I believe it because it follows a consistent pattern. Like birds flying south for the winter at the same time every year. Those who honestly believe the star brat when it says this is the reapers purpose have to ask themselves some tough questions:

        Why does the synthetic vs organic conflict even require 50k year intervention? What stops organics from advancing quicker than normal, creating synthetics, and being destroyed by their creations long before 50k years comes along?  If the reapers' purpose is to save organics from annihilation at the hands of synthetics, does it make sense for reapers, who are synthetic, to kill organics by the trillions? Why do the reapers, in several instances, cause other synthetic life to attack organic life? Why is the genetic viability of each species at one point assessed by Harbinger? Why assess genetic viability if their goal is to save all organic life from synthetics? 

         All of these questions, which cannot be logically answered from the literal perspective, suggest that the reapers' intentions are far from what the Reaper AI claims. Organics are simply food/building materials to the reapers. It explains why they look down on all forms of life. It explains why some species are more genetically valuable to the reapers than others. Theyre here for the best building materials to preserve their own kind. They'll kill off the junk races and process the best. 

         What they're not here to do is to save organics from synthetics. If that's honestly what theyre here to do, they are very good at causing the very problems they were created to fix. No synthetic race heard of or seen in the game have rebelled and attempted to exterminate organic life without direct intervention from reapers. 



         

[Andromidius]

Eryri wrote...
Agreed. I'm starting to like this idea. The only point I would raise is, why would the Leviathans want synthesis? Wouldn't they be afflicted with horrible, tacky, day-glow green bits as well? Or maybe it will amplify their mind control powers?

It could be a lie, and its merely representitive of complete submission to their control.

Or it merely wouldn't effect them.  They are arrogant enough to think this, at least.  I'm not even sure it would really effect the Reapers either since they are already a form of synthesis.

[AxStapleton]

FreddyCast wrote...

byne wrote...

Also, Thane needs to stop calling Shep Siha in her dreams. I didnt even romance him.

Thane had a secret crush on Femshep

ManShep as well apparently.

[EpyonX3]

Anyone notice Leviathan's "I'm hiding something" look when you ask about the Crucible?

[Jere85]

I just finished Leviathan so i havent been here for a while, any huge things i missed out on? like hints and some things?
I noticed a few myself but i just finished

[Andromidius]

StElmo wrote...

Also, space magic still exists if these three options are indeed happening.

This still has to be part of a dream.

Agreed.  It just makes more sense if the dream is induced by Leviathan rather then a Reaper, based on the reactions and responces.

The reason for the hallucinations is still up for grabs.

[Hrothdane]

Eryri wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...


This would be an interesting idea because:
A: The fact that the mysteriousness of the Reapers is gone is no longer a problem.
B: We get a new, even MORE dangerously cunning enemy.
C: The problem of finding a villain to live up to the Reaper threat in the inevitable sequel will be solved.
D: The reason we even get offered a destroy option that actually works becomes clearer.

Not saying it is or aught to be the case at this point, but the implications would be quite interesting.

Agreed. I'm starting to like this idea. The only point I would raise is, why would the Leviathans want synthesis? Wouldn't they be afflicted with horrible, tacky, day-glow green bits as well? Or maybe it will amplify their mind control powers?

Perhaps they want to incorporated the strengths of their Reaper creations into themselves so that they cannot be defeated again.

Space-magic is definitely still a problem, like St. Elmo said, but I'm going to continue this thought experiment and see where it goes.

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


Well they found Leviathan, which means the end of their race. He had no choice.

Did you take the husk head as a pet, Epyon?

I didn't know you could. It did freak me out, and bit Vega lol.

[CoolioThane]

How does one "take the huskhead"?

[Leonia]

So I got more questions than answers after that, how about you guys?

[Eryri]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Anyone notice Leviathan's "I'm hiding something" look when you ask about the Crucible?

Yes, that really stuck out for me.

The question is, if Leviathan is controlling this illusion, why would he allow Shepard to see what looks like hesitation? Why would he make his "puppet" mouthpiece in the illusion display such weakness?

[Eryri]

StElmo wrote...

Eryri wrote...


Agreed. I'm starting to like this idea. The only point I would raise is, why would the Leviathans want synthesis? Wouldn't they be afflicted with horrible, tacky, day-glow green bits as well? Or maybe it will amplify their mind control powers?

Also, space magic still exists if these three options are indeed happening.

This still has to be part of a dream.

True. I really, REALLY hate the idea that synthesis is in any way "true" or actually capable of happening. It's just so unbelievably ghastly.

But as Hrothdane and Andromidus say, it does rather make a bit more sense for Leviathan to be the one pulling the strings. Destroy would be merely an inconvenince for the Leviathans rather than a calamity. They'd be rid of their rebellious creations, but would lose the opportunity to dominate a ready made reaper army.

This would explain the Catalyst's casual, half-hearted attitude of "OK you can kill me and my creations and everything I've worked for, for billions of years, but I'd kinda, sorta, rather you didn't". 

Modifié par Eryri, 28 août 2012 - 10:04 .

[byne]

CoolioThane wrote...

How does one "take the huskhead"?

When Vega is there, talk to him about it a few times, and he asks if anyone would notice if we took it. You can then take it.

Also "take the huskhead" sounds dirty.

Modifié par byne, 28 août 2012 - 09:44 .

[ThisOneIsPunny]

byne wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

One thing that worries me is how Shepard seemed so... OK with Leviathans joining everyone.

It really pushes the idea that, in some way, Shepard is working for the Leviathan, like how TIM may be working for Harbinger and Saren worked for Sovereign.

So I'm concerned with that and any implications of it.

Leviathan: I'm going to keep you down here forever as my slave, Shepard!
Shepard: No wait, lets be BFFs!
Leviathan: Ok.

Yeah, that was kind of weird.

You know what was even more strange? Shepard not suspecting indoctrination from Hadley at the beginning and EDI being the one to voice the similarities.

[Jere85]

I know im probably just imagining this, but the first time Leviathan controlled my mind, it looked like i was in the dream sequence with the child... scenes after that weren't, so i guess i just imagined it all.