80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Eryri]

StElmo wrote...


Yeah, so Leviathans are the kingpins of the reapers, lets work from that premise! What do the leviathans want? Do you thinkt hey like their avatars, the reapers, controlling the galaxy - keeping the other organics in check and keeping the Leviathans the Apex of life?

I think the Leviathans want to remain the apex of organic existence, so they created reapers to keep everyone else down from ever evolving to their level. !

I'm not sure why the Leviathans would seem to be in hiding from the Reapers in that case. However I wouldn't trust the Leviathans as far as I could throw them. I think they would definitely try to lever the situation to their own advantage and reclaim their former dominance given half a chance.

Maybe they did lose control of the Reapers at one point, but are quite happy for them to keep reaping if it keeps the other species in check as you suggest.

Modifié par Eryri, 28 août 2012 - 10:41 .

[StElmo]

Eryri wrote...

StElmo wrote...


Yeah, so Leviathans are the kingpins of the reapers, lets work from that premise! What do the leviathans want? Do you thinkt hey like their avatars, the reapers, controlling the galaxy - keeping the other organics in check and keeping the Leviathans the Apex of life?

I think the Leviathans want to remain the apex of organic existence, so they created reapers to keep everyone else down from ever evolving to their level. !

I'm not sure why the Leviathans would be hiding from the Reapers in that case. However I wouldn't trust the Leviathans as far as I could throw them. I think they would definitely try to lever the situation to their own advantage and reclaim their former dominance. 

They aren't hiding from the reapers, they are hiding from everyone else, so they can continue to be the puppeteers of the universe.

Stop assuming they are telling the truth, they are lying IMHO.

[Eryri]

StElmo wrote...



They aren't hiding from the reapers, they are hiding from everyone else, so they can continue to be the puppeteers of the universe.

Stop assuming they are telling the truth, they are lying IMHO.

Now that you mention it, there was that shifty expression and little pause when Shepard asked him about the crucible. Maybe that's Bioware's way of telling us not to trust them?

Modifié par Eryri, 28 août 2012 - 10:46 .

[Andromidius]

And the fact you can't reject their assistance is fishy. Like when you can't decide not to use that Proto-Reaper componant for the Crucible.

[Hrothdane]

Eryri wrote...

StElmo wrote...



They aren't hiding from the reapers, they are hiding from everyone else, so they can continue to be the puppeteers of the universe.

Stop assuming they are telling the truth, they are lying IMHO.

Now that you mention it, there was that shifty expression and little pause when Shepard asked him about the crucible. Maybe that's Bioware's way of telling us not to trust them?

That expression and pause clearly stood out.

Also consider that during that part of the conversation he was using the form of another person that had lied to us: the guy that pretended to be Dr. Garneau.

[FreddyCast]

I peronally don't like the idea that the Leviathan is somehow the mastermind behind the Reapers or that it's indoctrinating Shepard instead of the Reapers.
I'm staying neutral on the Leviathans true intentions and I'm going to say that they are our allies, not our enemies in disguise.

[StElmo]

FreddyCast wrote...

I peronally don't like the idea that the Leviathan is somehow the mastermind behind the Reapers or that it's indoctrinating Shepard instead of the Reapers.
I'm staying neutral on the Leviathans true intentions and I'm going to say that they are our allies, not our enemies in disguise.

If they were our allies, how come they won't help when clearly they can floor a reaper in seconds?

God damn fishy if you ask me. and shepard just takes their explanation like a gump.

An indoctrinated gump.

[insomniak9]

Haha. Fishy.

I saw what you did thurr.

[Hrothdane]

FreddyCast wrote...

I peronally don't like the idea that the Leviathan is somehow the mastermind behind the Reapers or that it's indoctrinating Shepard instead of the Reapers.
I'm staying neutral on the Leviathans true intentions and I'm going to say that they are our allies, not our enemies in disguise.

I'm neither for or against the idea yet. I'm indulging it at the moment as a thought experiment to see how it fits together before I make a value judgment.

[MaximizedAction]

StElmo wrote...
They aren't hiding from the reapers, they are hiding from everyone else, so they can continue to be the puppeteers of the universe.

Stop assuming they are telling the truth, they are lying IMHO.

Hm, it does sound like a healthy attitude: don't trust those who can indoctrinate.

On the other hand, it was shown to help Shepard escape.

On the third hand, that could be a sharade.

And on the fourth hand, there is that thing that the probability that something did happen rises with the amount of effort put into creating the content.

Bioware, Y U NO have non-indoctrinating characters explain the AI? Not possible? Well, then it's just not possible to explain the Reapers with certainty. And thus, from a rational standpoint, nothing that comes from any source that can be indoctrinated should be trusted. Only rely on your closest friends and people you know.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 28 août 2012 - 11:06 .

[StElmo]

MaximizedAction wrote...

StElmo wrote...
They aren't hiding from the reapers, they are hiding from everyone else, so they can continue to be the puppeteers of the universe.

Stop assuming they are telling the truth, they are lying IMHO.

Hm, it does sound like a healthy attitude: don't trust those who can indoctrinate.

On the other hand, it was shown to help Shepard escape.

On the third hand, that could be a sharade.

And on the fourth hand, there is that thing that the probability that something did happen rises with the amount of effort put into creating the content.

Bioware, Y U NO have non-indoctrinating characters explain the AI?

Shepard just had his mind invaded by them, maybe they were confident to let him go?

[Kulbelbolka]

Quite good DLC, especially detective part, but game still feels like we don't see the whole picture. What does Leviathan means when he said that Catalyst is looking for something?

[insomniak9]

You're forgetting that the Leviathan gave Shepard the power to indoctrinate Reapers.

This. Changes. Everything.

Except it doesn't. Because no-one mentions it, and it's a silly power that you need to visit the Med-bay to install >.<

[estebanus]

Hmmm... If there's one thing that leviathan proves, then it's that Shepard can be indoctrinated. I find that pretty interesting.

[estebanus]

Kulbelbolka wrote...

Quite good DLC, especially detective part, but game still feels like we don't see the whole picture. What does Leviathan means when he said that Catalyst is looking for something?

I'm gonna have to go out on a limb and say "synthesis."

[Andromidius]

estebanus wrote...

Hmmm... If there's one thing that leviathan proves, then it's that Shepard can be indoctrinated. I find that pretty interesting.

Yep.  And that Shepard is resistant to it, but not immune.

[Hrothdane]

MaximizedAction wrote...

StElmo wrote...
They aren't hiding from the reapers, they are hiding from everyone else, so they can continue to be the puppeteers of the universe.

Stop assuming they are telling the truth, they are lying IMHO.

Hm, it does sound like a healthy attitude: don't trust those who can indoctrinate.

On the other hand, it was shown to help Shepard escape.

On the third hand, that could be a sharade.

And on the fourth hand, there is that thing that the probability that something did happen rises with the amount of effort put into creating the content.

Bioware, Y U NO have non-indoctrinating characters explain the AI?

Perhaps they decided that Shepard needed agency to stay effective, like Sovereign did with Saren. Their indoctrination does work similarly, after all.

[StElmo]

Hrothdane wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

StElmo wrote...
They aren't hiding from the reapers, they are hiding from everyone else, so they can continue to be the puppeteers of the universe.

Stop assuming they are telling the truth, they are lying IMHO.

Hm, it does sound like a healthy attitude: don't trust those who can indoctrinate.

On the other hand, it was shown to help Shepard escape.

On the third hand, that could be a sharade.

And on the fourth hand, there is that thing that the probability that something did happen rises with the amount of effort put into creating the content.

Bioware, Y U NO have non-indoctrinating characters explain the AI?

Perhaps they decided that Shepard needed agency to stay effective, like Sovereign did with Saren. Their indoctrination does work similarly, after all.

True, Saren could have easily been killed, but maybe Shepard is more valuable to them alive, which is always the way with the reapers, and now, the fathers of the reapers.

I've convinced myself, the Leviathans are lying about the reaper origin, they are not shepards friends. The origin is too ridiculous to be true, they are also hiding information from him and making very odd decisions. They can kill a reaper easily, but won't help?

Yeah, they WANT the reapers in control, but they also want shepard in control. Shepard would kill himself the moment he knew he was working for the reapers, so they gotta have the tactics!

[insomniak9]

estebanus wrote...

Hmmm... If there's one thing that leviathan proves, then it's that Shepard can be indoctrinated. I find that pretty interesting.

It proves she can be indoctrinated by a Leviathan, not a Reaper. 

[legaldinho]

that's totally nuts.

edit- that was @ st elmo's, but works just as well with the post above mine.

I guess the codex entry should say

"reaper indoctrination [wall of text]*

Except shepard is immune".

Seriously, are you saying shepard CAN'T be indoctrinated?

Modifié par legaldinho, 28 août 2012 - 11:17 .

[estebanus]

insomniak9 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Hmmm... If there's one thing that leviathan proves, then it's that Shepard can be indoctrinated. I find that pretty interesting.

It proves she can be indoctrinated by a Leviathan, not a Reaper. 

I don't see the difference. The reapers' abilities were based off of the leviathans. It would follow that they'd have the same abilities to indoctrinate as the leviathans would.

[byne]

Can I just say I hate the war asset system? Its basically a way for Bioware to say "Yeah, these allies you spent all this time recruiting? You're never ever going to see them again, but dont worry, we swear they're totally helping."

[EpyonX3]

Kulbelbolka wrote...

Quite good DLC, especially detective part, but game still feels like we don't see the whole picture. What does Leviathan means when he said that Catalyst is looking for something?

Synthesis.