80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Krogan Warlord]

Andromidius wrote...

Krogan Warlord wrote...

People...Listen to me...It's over...No indoctrination.I believed in it but it seems it was a no go.It is the truth and we all know it.Time to accept it.The Leviathan DLC proved it is not clearly indoctrination.

Incorrect.

No answer has been given, but to say IT is dead after seeing Shepard nearly be instantly indoctrinated by Leviathan (with lots of paralels to be drawn to the scene with Starbinger) is an incredible statement.

Please stop spreading misinformation, or drawing upon some authority you seem to think you have to plead with us to beleive you.  Its not effective.

*Facepalm* Leviathan is a telepathic mudcrab...The Reapers are a ******* piece of iron...

"Please stop spreading misinformation, or drawing upon some authority you
seem to think you have to plead with us to beleive you.  Its not
effective."

Oh yea Bro and
It seems like Shepard can't get indoctrinated since the Leviathan gots his minds back.Protecting him from the Reapers.They already stated they will use Reaper Husketeers agains them.
And ofcourse "instantly indoctrinated" exactly.Indoctrinated by the good guys.

Modifié par Krogan Warlord, 29 août 2012 - 01:35 .

[CoolioThane]

Wait, you hate the IT because you think it breaks the lore?

Christ, but surely the fact people have broken free of indoc without killing themselves in Leviathan?

Or because Shepard is special - like is said in Leviathan

Would make you not hate it

Also, IT is much more consistent to the lore than the literal endings.

But it seems with you it's a lose-lose

[CoolioThane]

Krogan Warlord wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Krogan Warlord wrote...

People...Listen to me...It's over...No indoctrination.I believed in it but it seems it was a no go.It is the truth and we all know it.Time to accept it.The Leviathan DLC proved it is not clearly indoctrination.

Incorrect.

No answer has been given, but to say IT is dead after seeing Shepard nearly be instantly indoctrinated by Leviathan (with lots of paralels to be drawn to the scene with Starbinger) is an incredible statement.

Please stop spreading misinformation, or drawing upon some authority you seem to think you have to plead with us to beleive you.  Its not effective.

*Facepalm* Leviathan is a telepathic mudcrab...The Reapers are a ******* piece of iron...

"Please stop spreading misinformation, or drawing upon some authority you
seem to think you have to plead with us to beleive you.  Its not
effective."

No offense but are you braindead?

[Krogan Warlord]

Wich part does sound brained?
BTW did You even play Leviathan?

Modifié par Krogan Warlord, 29 août 2012 - 01:38 .

[Jamie9]

How does IT stand with this new info though? Any Reaper indoctrinating influences pre-Leviathan would be negated once Leviathan takes control of Shepard, yes?

So, in effect, Shepard's indoctrination exposure starts a-fresh.

[Hrothdane]

MassEffected555 wrote...
I agree about him being immune damaging the series. I also have always stated having Shepard be the ONLY one to ever BE indoctrinated and then break out of it -besides to kill themselves- would also damage the series. That is THE biggest reason I hate  the indoc theory, because it breaks the lore. 

I dislike that aspect of IT as well. Though I believe the evidence supports IT, I don't consider it the best ending we could have gotten. If it was intended (as I am inclined to think it was), then BioWare implemented it poorly. While I enjoy analyzing and speculating, I don't think a game series like Mass Effect should require so much just to make sense of what happened from an in-universe perspective.

People always say either bad writing or IT, but I think it is always a little of both. BioWare tried to do something clever and screwed up, like Hideo Kojima with MGS2.

[Krogan Warlord]

HOW FAR ARE YOU WILLING TO GO IT?
YOUR LIFE SPAN IS DYING
OPEN YOUR EYES.IT GOES SINCE MARCH AND ITS AUGUST.NO CHANGES

Modifié par Krogan Warlord, 29 août 2012 - 01:40 .

[legaldinho]

I think that means "yes, I am as braindead as a brain in a jar in a museum, that's very old.".

Modifié par legaldinho, 29 août 2012 - 01:40 .

[CoolioThane]

Krogan Warlord wrote...

Wich part does sound brained?
BTW did You even play Leviathan?

Lol sentence! The Reapers are not iron.

Yes I did! It was very good. Pro-IT in my opinion

[CoolioThane]

Krogan Warlord wrote...

HOW FAR ARE YOU WILLING TO GO IT?
YOUR LIFE SPAN IS DYING

Well if you feel that way, you best leave

[OneWithTheAssassins]

I havn't even finished the Leviathan dlc yet, and this guy does sound brain dead.
As a matter of fact, I do believe we have a troll amongst us.

[Krogan Warlord]

CoolioThane wrote...

Krogan Warlord wrote...

Wich part does sound brained?
BTW did You even play Leviathan?

Lol sentence! The Reapers are not iron.

Yes I did! It was very good. Pro-IT in my opinion

Fine let me correct my self.PIECE OF ******* GENETIC LARVA

[Big_Boss9]

Hrothdane wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...
I agree about him being immune damaging the series. I also have always stated having Shepard be the ONLY one to ever BE indoctrinated and then break out of it -besides to kill themselves- would also damage the series. That is THE biggest reason I hate  the indoc theory, because it breaks the lore. 

I dislike that aspect of IT as well. Though I believe the evidence supports IT, I don't consider it the best ending we could have gotten. If it was intended (as I am inclined to think it was), then BioWare implemented it poorly. While I enjoy analyzing and speculating, I don't think a game series like Mass Effect should require so much just to make sense of what happened from an in-universe perspective.

People always say either bad writing or IT, but I think it is always a little of both. BioWare tried to do something clever and screwed up, like Hideo Kojima with MGS2.

You said it. That final codec conversation before the fight with Solidus always makes me go "oof, what were you thinking, Hideo?"

As for the DLC, I enjoyed it. Still digesting it. Not sure I loved it. Liked the varied locations and the "detective" aspect in the lab was a nice feature. Was not a fan of Ann Bryson's appearance or VA. The Leviathans' solution to deal with their thralls creating synthetics was borderline irrational. Also, I can confirm that there is absolutely no difference to any of the endings except for two additional lines of dialogue with the Catalyst about Leviathan, not that that's surprising.

Modifié par Big_Boss9, 29 août 2012 - 01:50 .

[Jaze55]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Where is the evidence to support Shepard being immune to indoctrination?

1) Three entire games minus the last 10 minutes are Shepard wanting to wipe them out.
2) Leviathan wanting to study is uniqueness, why the reapers see him as a threat.
3) Harbinger wanting to study him, dead or alive.

There is something special about Shepard that reapers and levy wants. I think it's how he can fight the reapers for so long and be successfull. 

1)Seems to be a point proving he can be indoctrinated. If he was immune, he wouldnt be tempted by two choices 
     at the last minute.

2)That can be for any number of reasons having nothing to do with indoctrination immunity. If Leviathan studies           Shepard he'll be disapointed in what he finds. Aside from a few cybernetic parts, Shepard is just another      
    human. It doesnt qualify as evidence.

3)Again that hardly qualifies as evidence. 

1) Not really. I only say this because you have the option of not killing them all. What happens if a player picks destroy? Is it that he's not indoctrinated, or is it that the player did what Shepard went there to do?

2) Then why did Levy bother having a conversation? He had Shepard in front of him and was able to enter his mind. He could have just shut him off like the others and did what he wanted. Perhaps it's because he couldn't. If he could study why he couldn't, then maybe he could stop the reapers from indoctrinating anyone the next cycle, making it more difficult for the harvest to proceeed. 

3) Harbinger could have been to indoctrinate him each time they had an encounter and failed. Such a thing needs to be studied so that if it happens the next cycle, they can be prepared.

Each side wants Shepard for the same reason but for different purposes. And they both have to do with indoctrination.

I haven't played leviathan yet but I'll get to it by tomorrow sometime I hope. So I'll just respond to 1 and 3

     The theory asserts that Shepard is undergoing the process of indoctrination throughout the game. This is not  
     the same as being completely and fully indoctrinated. Were Shepard completely indoctrinated, there wouldnt be
     much of a story left to tell as Shepard would be out there doing the Reapers'  bidding. 

     The ending comes down to you resisting indoctrination and staying commited to destroying the reapers, or  
     ultimately succumbing to indoctrination and falling in line with their goals. The synthesis choice makes it more
     obvious. Thecatalyst claims choosing it will fuse synthetic and organic dna into something new, causing
     everyone to reach the pinnacle of evolution. What are reapers? A combination of synthetics and organics.
     And what do they already consider themselves? The pinnacle of evolution.

     Its an absurd idea for Shepard to be the only one in millions of years to be immune to indoctrination. Shepard
     being immune to indoctrination does so much damage to the trilogy and introduces so many plotholes its not
     even funny. 

   

     

I agree about him being immune damaging the series. I also have always stated having Shepard be the ONLY one to ever BE indoctrinated and then break out of it -besides to kill themselves- would also damage the series. That is THE biggest reason I hate  the indoc theory, because it breaks the lore. 

Not break free. Resist. You're implying he purges indoctrination from his system entirely. That is not what the theory is suggesting. Big difference.

Maybe you can answer this for me then where others have failed.

How exactly does he resist? Is he indoctrinated or isnt he? I never heard of someone being in the process of indoctrination where the are already seeing visions as .... breaking out? Resisting? See to me resisting would mean NOTHING at all happens. I've linked the codex where it says once you start seeing things blah blah you are indoctrinated. 

So where exactly is he either not indoctrinated, or where IS he indoctrinated so he can resist, OR (sorry these are real questions) where is it that he feels the indoctrination happening but then he resists?

[I_eat_unicorns]

CoolioThane wrote...

Krogan Warlord wrote...

Wich part does sound brained?
BTW did You even play Leviathan?

Lol sentence! The Reapers are not iron.

Yes I did! It was very good. Pro-IT in my opinion

The reapers are known to indoctrinate. It's just an advanced form of control the leviathans do over organics. But the leviathans said that the catalyst was a real thing. Not a hallucination. 

[Krogan Warlord]

CoolioThane wrote...

Krogan Warlord wrote...

HOW FAR ARE YOU WILLING TO GO IT?
YOUR LIFE SPAN IS DYING

Well if you feel that way, you best leave

I have a life to go to.You can sit here and pray for an ending that will never happen.I've got a life so goodbye.

[CoolioThane]

Krogan Warlord wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Krogan Warlord wrote...

Wich part does sound brained?
BTW did You even play Leviathan?

Lol sentence! The Reapers are not iron.

Yes I did! It was very good. Pro-IT in my opinion

Fine let me correct my self.PIECE OF ******* GENETIC LARVA

Lol, and we already know that they can indoctrinate. 

Do you remember in Mass Effect 1 and 2 and 3? Or did your mummy cover your eyes and ears during those parts?

[Andromidius]

Krogan Warlord wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Krogan Warlord wrote...

HOW FAR ARE YOU WILLING TO GO IT?
YOUR LIFE SPAN IS DYING

Well if you feel that way, you best leave

I have a life to go to.You can sit here and pray for an ending that will never happen.I've got a life so goodbye.

Wow.  Just wow.

Please, for your sake, don't come back.  Go live that life.  And stop pleading with people to believe you when we're actually enjoying the debate and brainstorming.  I think you need the fresh air very much indeed.

[OneWithTheAssassins]

Krogan Warlord wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Krogan Warlord wrote...

HOW FAR ARE YOU WILLING TO GO IT?
YOUR LIFE SPAN IS DYING

Well if you feel that way, you best leave

I have a life to go to.You can sit here and pray for an ending that will never happen.I've got a life so goodbye.

With poor spelling and grammer like you do? I think you spend just as much time on BSN as we do.

[CoolioThane]

Krogan Warlord wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Krogan Warlord wrote...

HOW FAR ARE YOU WILLING TO GO IT?
YOUR LIFE SPAN IS DYING

Well if you feel that way, you best leave

I have a life to go to.You can sit here and pray for an ending that will never happen.I've got a life so goodbye.

>Oooh the wound it cut deep
>Say hi to the nurses for me 

[Krogan Warlord]

CoolioThane wrote...

Krogan Warlord wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Krogan Warlord wrote...

Wich part does sound brained?
BTW did You even play Leviathan?

Lol sentence! The Reapers are not iron.

Yes I did! It was very good. Pro-IT in my opinion

Fine let me correct my self.PIECE OF ******* GENETIC LARVA

Lol, and we already know that they can indoctrinate. 

Do you remember in Mass Effect 1 and 2 and 3? Or did your mummy cover your eyes and ears during those parts?

No Shep indoctrinated in ME1,2,or 3.As far as I am concerned.To have hallucinations etc... You must go through long term Indoctrination.And you are stating rapid Indoctrination since he shows no sings of Indoctrination in ME1,ME2 (Arrival maybe?) ME3(Dream?)

And why the hell does everyone think I am braindead?
I am the one receiving the insults...

Modifié par Krogan Warlord, 29 août 2012 - 01:50 .

[CoolioThane]

I_eat_unicorns wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Krogan Warlord wrote...

Wich part does sound brained?
BTW did You even play Leviathan?

Lol sentence! The Reapers are not iron.

Yes I did! It was very good. Pro-IT in my opinion

The reapers are known to indoctrinate. It's just an advanced form of control the leviathans do over organics. But the leviathans said that the catalyst was a real thing. Not a hallucination. 

Well, the Leviathans said they created an intelligence...

[Hrothdane]

Jamie9 wrote...

How does IT stand with this new info though? Any Reaper indoctrinating influences pre-Leviathan would be negated once Leviathan takes control of Shepard, yes?

So, in effect, Shepard's indoctrination exposure starts a-fresh.

Reaper indoctrination works by slowly rewriting the brain via nanites. This is why rapid indoctrination ruins the mind of the victim because it brute forces the job. If the brain suddenly reverts to it's pre-Reaper exposed structure, then it would ruin Shepard's mind.

Also, hile the effects of Leviathan thralldom appear similar, there are significant differences such as how the victims lose memory of all actions taken while under control and how Leviathan's signal can be tracked. Benezia, Saren, and TIM don't suddenly forget what's going on and act all confused when they break free from control temporarily. The blackouts suggests that Leviathans "assume direct control" of thralls rather than rewrite the brain to want to serve them.

The processes are probably different enough that they don't interfere, but we have no way of knowing either way at this point.

[CoolioThane]

Krogan Warlord wrote...


No Shep indoctrinated in ME1,2,or 3.As far as I am concerned.To have hallucinations etc... You must go through long term Indoctrination.And you are stating rapid Indoctrination since he shows no sings of Indoctrination in ME1,ME2 (Arrival maybe?) ME3(Dream?)

No,it's long-term mate. How many times did you contradict yourself there? LOL

I thought you were going to your life?

[Andromidius]

In any case, its pretty clear Reapers are more or less a 'clone' of Leviathans that have been heavily modifed, or at least they are heavily based upon their physiology and share many traits in common with them. Harbinger being a Leviathan that was Reaperised is a key componant in this.

Thus what Leviathan can do, a Reaper can likely do (to maybe a lesser degree). Plus they can fly through space and atmosphere and have giant cannons on them. You know, for good measure.