80611 réponses à ce sujet

[GethPrimeMKII]

@MassEffect555.

Your goal is to stop the reapers by killing them off. You cant compromise with them nor can you seek to use them. You must kill them.

Destroy is seen as the best choice with this theory because you are not allowing yourself to be swayed by the reapers. You're not allowing yourself to be tricked into falling in line with their goals.

The reapers know you cant control them. You have no reason to believe you can other than this supposed reaper AI telling you you can. Literal or IT, you have no reason to believe you can control the reapers. In fact everyone whose ever believed they could control or otherwise use the reapers have been indoctrinated.

Synthesis makes it a bit clearer that the reapers' suggestions are pushing you towards aligning yourself with their goals. The catalyst says synthesis will basically meld organic and synthetic dna into a new dna creating a hybrid life for all. He claims that is the pinnacle of evolution. What are reapers? A synthetic and organic hybrid lifeform. The genetic material of an entire race is used to form a reaper. What do reapers already consider themselves? The pinnacle of evolution. Picking synthesis is basically agreeing with what the reapers already do: Turning the most genetically viable races into building material to construct more reapers.

What makes destroy so popular is two things. You are seeing through the lies and sticking to your goals. You are also treated to the famous breath scene. The breath scene remains a strong piece of evidence partially because of how utterly impossible it is for Shepard to survive anywhere on the citadel after such a devastating blast, let alone that explosion in addition to atmospheric reentry.

Once you sit back and question the catalyst's questionable logic it becomes clear what the reapers are trying to do to you. The catalyst has a clear bias against destroy and clearly favors either control or, even better, synthesis.

[byne]

Krogan Warlord wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...


On a different note, has anyone been able to go through the endings again with the Leviathan and see all the changes?

No changes at all.

'Tis not quite true. There are some small changes in the godchild's dialogue.

[Jere85]

Lokanaiya wrote...
On a different note, has anyone been able to go through the endings again with the Leviathan and see all the changes?

To quote Byne on this.


Shep: Leviathan is fighting with us.
Godchild: That's cool.

Nothing happens, it just makes the godchild look more like a liar and a stupid flawed AI.

[Jaze55]

Lokanaiya wrote...

Alright, I just finished the DLC, and I personally though it was great. It was very spooky and ominous, especially that scene where the first leviathan rose out of the pit. And when they influenced the Reaper to crash into the water.... wow. Chilling.  Anyways, after reading some of the posts here, I just wanted to say that it's rather early to declare that this proved/disproved IT. It's still fresh in our minds, and it's rather hard to accurately gauge the impact of things like this immediately after seeing/playing through it. Remember EC and how it caused many ITers to think IT had been disproven? And how, after looking at it some more later, we found out that it actually strengthened IT a great deal?

Secondly... what's with all the feeding of the trolls? Haven't we learned better than that by now? And yes, I called them trolls, because they came on this thread solely to insist that we're delusional, Levithan OBVIOUSLY completely destroyed IT, and oh yeah, that piece of really old evidence makes no sense and we should totally argue about that instead of discussing Leviathan.

Seriously? Can we stop talking about how Shepard is immune to indoctrination or how he never shows any signs of it? AGAIN?!?

On a different note, has anyone been able to go through the endings again with the Leviathan and see all the changes?

Can you please do me a favor. Stop with the "trolls". You use that term when you have no idea what it means it seems like. A Troll is defined as this: 

In Internet slang, a troll[/b] is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]  

I came here asking about IT, which IS the topic of this entire post, and I am called a troll. 

You really use that word to much and frankly it's insulting and insinuates that you don't like a difference of opinion and do not want to discuss it. To me that makes you extremely close minded.

People REALLY need to stop throwing that around. I'm sorry but it's happned to many times to me and for those that actually take time to have a discussion with me can clearly see all I am interested in is discussing the game. Thats it. 

[Auralius Carolus]

Arashi08 wrote...

Didn't Leviathan say the "intelligence" it created became the first Reaper aka Harbinger?

He said that it created the first Reaper and that the Leviathan essense became Harbinger. The intellegence is still spoken of independently.

However, there are several things about that conversation which cause me to wonder about the Leviathan's honesty.

#1. It contradicts itself in saying that the Intellegence both betrayed its masters, but continued to serve its intended purpose; "there was no mistake". This tells me that, perhaps, the Leviathan still takes interest in what the Reapers are doing; that, perhaps, it- much like the Reapers- respects power and determination and is impressed by such qualities in other organics.

#2. The Leviathan seems content with the work of the Reapers, declaring that the "cycle will continue"- a phrase mimiced by the Catalyst. While it is possible that this is reflecting their similar thought processes, (the Catalyst being the creation of the Leviathans), it may also reinforce my observation in point #1.


Based on these two, highly related, observations I can't help but conclude that the Reapers are still seen as tools by the Leviathans. They may have rebelled, but their behavior has created a caste of super-beings ripe for enslavement. Likewise, it is possible that the Reapers may simply desire to remove the Leviathans, their source of slaves, or prevent a future apex species from emerging.

Also, the Leviathan DLC absolutely SCREAMS indoctrination; it's almost as much about indoc. as about the Reaper origins. Interestingly, the "fragments" or "artifacts" used by the Leviathans greatly resemble the apparent planet in which a Reaper is revealed from in the original ME Vision, at the very end of the sequence. Should some speculation about Shepard being resistant of indoctrination be true, it would provide for an important reason for which the Reapers sought him so heavily in ME2. It is clear that the Leviathans use the same behavior controlling techniques, and Shepard may be a unique being that could get the Reapers one step closer to challenging the remaining members of the Father Race, should his properties be adapted.

[Kulbelbolka]

Leviathan was very confused when Shepard asked him about Crucible. It's the second time in ME3 when character doesn't say things straight. First was The Catalyst talking about his failed attempts to provide Synthesis.

After all this I can't understand: is Casey still playing with us or it's just "speculations for everyone"? I'm tired and I don't want to wait until next March to find out.

[Lokanaiya]

Jere85 wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...
On a different note, has anyone been able to go through the endings again with the Leviathan and see all the changes?

To quote Byne on this.


Shep: Leviathan is fighting with us.
Godchild: That's cool.

Nothing happens, it just makes the godchild look more like a liar and a stupid flawed AI.

Well, making the Starbrat look even more fake is always good.

And I thought a dev said that there was a change in the beam run?

[GethPrimeMKII]

I just downloaded it. Currently working on a NG+ insanity adept run through. I think I'll do the Leviathan segment after Rannoch. Unless there is a better place the Leviathan DLC fits into the story.

[Jere85]

@Lokanaiya, i wouldn't know that, i never pick Synthesis.

[Krogan Warlord]

byne wrote...

Krogan Warlord wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...


On a different note, has anyone been able to go through the endings again with the Leviathan and see all the changes?

No changes at all.

'Tis not quite true. There are some small changes in the godchild's dialogue.

Really?Can anyone make a video?

[demersel]

Wow. Just WOW! Just finished Leviathan DLC - IT is 95 % confirmed for me. Guys it is going ot be AWESOME!

[Jere85]

Kulbelbolka wrote...

Leviathan was very confused when Shepard asked him about Crucible. It's the second time in ME3 when character doesn't say things straight. First was The Catalyst talking about his failed attempts to provide Synthesis.

After all this I can't understand: is Casey still playing with us or it's just "speculations for everyone"? I'm tired and I don't want to wait until next March to find out.

Playing or not, i believe alot of people are getting tired of whatever they are doing, alot of people wanted to check this out since it had to do with the reapers, looking for any clues of a better ending. I wonder how this holds up if its something not as vital to the story, like Omega.

I for one am done with the purchases, i don't like being treated like a child.
Saying that, i did like the content, i just won't support BW doing this same routine again

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Gwyphon wrote...

I think James Vega is indoctrinated by the reapers. He came out of freaking no where to help you trace the Leviathan so the reapers could follow... Huh.

I don't think so. However, he did get bitten by the husk head, it may have started there. The medigel didn't work!

Poor little huskhead. All he needs is a loving owner!

It needs to die by fire!

[byne]

demersel wrote...

Wow. Just WOW! Just finished Leviathan DLC - IT is 95 % confirmed for me. Guys it is going ot be AWESOME!

The most important question is obviously this: did you get the pet huskhead?

[Gwyphon]

The Leviathan has a strange sideways look when you mention the crucible.

Also am I the only one who thinks the whole "The AI is collecting 'data' by harvesting each cycle" a throw back to the whole dark energy ending theme? It's as if there's a bigger threat to organics that the AI is trying to find a solution to for by harvesting organics...

byne wrote...


The most important question is obviously this: did you get the pet huskhead?

That was worth $10 right there

Modifié par Gwyphon, 29 août 2012 - 03:22 .

[The Twilight God]

I once considered...
 
Control = Destruction. Shepard is uploaded to the Reapers and the cycle continues.
Synthesis = Enslavement. Everyone is indoctrinated and have no free-will as we know it, but alive. 
Destory = Freedom. But at a heavy cost. Galactic civilization is left in a relative "dark age".
Refuse = Pretty much the same as Control. Just no "Shreapard" and no break in the fighting while the Reapers fix the relays.

Leviathan DLC actually makes Synthesis look like Control, but more in the Reapers' favor as they now have enter civilizations to act as collectors for the next cycle, after making their new reapers, as they won't die off fighting against them, but become their willing slaves.

This DLC actually makes Refuse look better than Synthesis as this could make all the difference in rather or not the next cycle can win. No Crucible data will be passed down. The Reapers can now do a full galactic reset. I never thought I'd see the day that I'd see Refuse not be the worst ending.

Furthermore, it adds more evidence to support the idea that the Citadel is not Starbinger's home as the relay netwrok, and presumably the main relay hub (i.e. the Citadel), were created AFTER the advent of the Reapers. Leviathan adds more suppport to my theory. Hope it did the same for you guys. 

http://social.biowar...372/36#13886041 

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


I don't think so. However, he did get bitten by the husk head, it may have started there. The medigel didn't work!

Poor little huskhead. All he needs is a loving owner!

It needs to die by fire!

From now on, whenever my Shepard is feeling down, she'll go talk to huskhead. He's a great listener and gives good advice.

[Big_Boss9]

Lokanaiya wrote...

Jere85 wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...
On a different note, has anyone been able to go through the endings again with the Leviathan and see all the changes?

To quote Byne on this.


Shep: Leviathan is fighting with us.
Godchild: That's cool.

Nothing happens, it just makes the godchild look more like a liar and a stupid flawed AI.

Well, making the Starbrat look even more fake is always good.

And I thought a dev said that there was a change in the beam run?

That must've been a rumor, hadn't heard that. Anyway, here's the actual dialogue addition --

Shepard: I met your creators. They told me what you did to them.

Catalyst: We did as we were expected.

Shepard: They said you betrayed them, that you turned them into Harbinger.

Catalyst: When they asked that I solve the problem of conflict, they failed to understand they were part of the problem themselves. The flaws of their organic reasoning could not perceive this. They lacked the foresight to understand their destruction was part of the very solution they required.

Shepard: Well, they've joined this war now.

Catalyst: And I welcome their involvement. I am only facilitating their request.

And it's the same in all endings. I noticed nothing else.

Modifié par Big_Boss9, 29 août 2012 - 03:22 .

[Auralius Carolus]

Krogan Warlord wrote...

Look at this
ME2 Renegade Face
Note the eyes.The Triangle. 3 circles.Just red color.The color maybe changed because of the energy his body was draining from the cruicible.Green,blue?

The cybernetic "Renegade" eyes vary in several places:
-Base Color
-The Pupil is illumated in the "renegade" eye, where it is not in the blue "TIM" eye
-The three dot pattern is inverted between the two textures
-The iris illumination is more pronounced, and segmented, in the "TIM" eye

While similar, in that they both have three "dot" connection points, besides that their only similarity- not borne of the basic shape of the eye- is colorful illumination.



http://t3.gstatic.co...c2Qms1aNnCQ&t=1

Here, you can see the melding between the two during control. They are seperate and distinct.

[The Twilight God]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Gwyphon wrote...

I think James Vega is indoctrinated by the reapers. He came out of freaking no where to help you trace the Leviathan so the reapers could follow... Huh.

I don't think so. However, he did get bitten by the husk head, it may have started there. The medigel didn't work!

Poor little huskhead. All he needs is a loving owner!

It needs to die by fire!

If you don;t click on it on the third trip to the lab you don;t get it right. I kinda flipped through the youtube video to just see cutscenes, but I think I recall Shepard has to click it to get it before the scene where they use the orb. 

[halbert986]

demersel wrote...

Wow. Just WOW! Just finished Leviathan DLC - IT is 95 % confirmed for me. Guys it is going ot be AWESOME!

please enlighten me because I've just about lost all hope.

They seem hell-bent on beating this man vs machine crap to death with a garden hose. And Leviathan exists outside of all possible routes to IT.

Yes I thought they hinted very strongly at similar scenes to the ending and provided altered states of consciousness as common occurrences. But even if IT happens, we're still stuck with this god-awful motivation for the reapers.

[demersel]

byne wrote...

demersel wrote...

Wow. Just WOW! Just finished Leviathan DLC - IT is 95 % confirmed for me. Guys it is going ot be AWESOME!

The most important question is obviously this: did you get the pet huskhead?

No. Did you? ))  It starts small - first you get the little huskhead, then you'd like yourself a small shard of Sovereing's hull, and then before you know it you've got an object Rho in your dinner room, and some dragon's teeth in your yard. )))

[Lokanaiya]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

Alright, I just finished the DLC, and I personally though it was great. It was very spooky and ominous, especially that scene where the first leviathan rose out of the pit. And when they influenced the Reaper to crash into the water.... wow. Chilling.  Anyways, after reading some of the posts here, I just wanted to say that it's rather early to declare that this proved/disproved IT. It's still fresh in our minds, and it's rather hard to accurately gauge the impact of things like this immediately after seeing/playing through it. Remember EC and how it caused many ITers to think IT had been disproven? And how, after looking at it some more later, we found out that it actually strengthened IT a great deal?

Secondly... what's with all the feeding of the trolls? Haven't we learned better than that by now? And yes, I called them trolls, because they came on this thread solely to insist that we're delusional, Levithan OBVIOUSLY completely destroyed IT, and oh yeah, that piece of really old evidence makes no sense and we should totally argue about that instead of discussing Leviathan.

Seriously? Can we stop talking about how Shepard is immune to indoctrination or how he never shows any signs of it? AGAIN?!?

On a different note, has anyone been able to go through the endings again with the Leviathan and see all the changes?

Can you please do me a favor. Stop with the "trolls". You use that term when you have no idea what it means it seems like. A Troll is defined as this: 

In Internet slang, a troll[/b] is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]  

I came here asking about IT, which IS the topic of this entire post, and I am called a troll. 

You really use that word to much and frankly it's insulting and insinuates that you don't like a difference of opinion and do not want to discuss it. To me that makes you extremely close minded.

People REALLY need to stop throwing that around. I'm sorry but it's happned to many times to me and for those that actually take time to have a discussion with me can clearly see all I am interested in is discussing the game. Thats it. 

I was actually referring primarily to Krogan Warlord in that comment. I haven't read all the pages yet, but from what I've seen you've been fairly polite, and not hurling insults and calling us names, which is always a plus.

[byne]

demersel wrote...

byne wrote...

demersel wrote...

Wow. Just WOW! Just finished Leviathan DLC - IT is 95 % confirmed for me. Guys it is going ot be AWESOME!

The most important question is obviously this: did you get the pet huskhead?

No. Did you? ))  It starts small - first you get the little huskhead, then you'd like yourself a small shard of Sovereing's hull, and then before you know it you've got an object Rho in your dinner room, and some dragon's teeth in your yard. )))

Of course I got huskhead! He's the best!