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[SauliusL]

MaximizedAction wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Best line from Leviathan " Did you take the appropriate steps to avoid indoctrination" EDI regarding the Sovereign fragment in Dr Bryson's lab.

Oh, NOW that's important

What appropriate steps? Rubber gloves and a tin foil hat?

just some force field

Oh, so now indoctrination is just something that one can shield him or herself against? What great engineering the Reapers then must've done if it took them years to perfect it, while it took this one cycle just a few months or years to develop a shield against this supposedly perfected technology...

If so, why then are there reports of important human leaders giving in to Reapers on Earth? Why not provide at least them with 'indoctrination shields' as a first measure?

Is there actually a codex entry on that? WTF?

Indoctrination used by Leviathan is different than Reapers in some ways. It's being explained in the DLC. What you can shield off are the artifacts which either strenghten the effect or make it possible for indoctrination to happen in a distance.

[RavenEyry]

SauliusL wrote...

Indoctrination used by Leviathan is different than Reapers in some ways. It's being explained in the DLC. What you can shield off are the artifacts which either strenghten the effect or make it possible for indoctrination to happen in a distance.

Like if they'd kept object Rho in a lead box or something instead of leaving it in the middle of the room because it was so pretty.

[ivenoidea]

leonia42 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

ivenoidea wrote...

*snip*

So judging by the similarity between that scene and the choice room I'd say it's save to assume that when the Leviathans can cause Shepard those hallucinations the Reapers can too, all while he is unconscious. (Remember he was barely there while going back up.)

Could've made for a nice 'Contact' moment: "Shepard, you just went down, didn't you find anything?". And I agree with you, because Bioware cared to show Shepard being unconcious multiple times during the indoc. scene.

It is a bit of an 'Indoctrination for dummies'.

I REALLY thought they were going to pull that, as Shepard was descending to chat with Levy my brain kept screaming "MAKE SURE YOU CHECK THE LENGTH ON THE RECORDING!" Kind of surpriesd that they didn't do it actually and everyone seems to just accept Shepard's version of the story (though we never hear it being retold, only references to the mission report).

Shepard is not good at retelling things that happened to him. Remember ME1? "I had ... some kind of vision."

And that's all they ever get to hear.

[SauliusL]

RavenEyry wrote...

SauliusL wrote...

Indoctrination used by Leviathan is different than Reapers in some ways. It's being explained in the DLC. What you can shield off are the artifacts which either strenghten the effect or make it possible for indoctrination to happen in a distance.

Like if they'd kept object Rho in a lead box or something instead of leaving it in the middle of the room because it was so pretty.

We can just guess But when you spend couple of hours close to Rho object, you don't want to cover it in lead box. You want more people to see it, as you become thought compromised

[RavenEyry]

SauliusL wrote...

We can just guess But when you spend couple of hours close to Rho object, you don't want to cover it in lead box. You want more people to see it, as you become thought compromised

Yeah,  I understand how it happened. It's just when I first played arrival I actually said "You left it out in the open?!" out load before Shepard did.

[MaximizedAction]

RavenEyry wrote...

SauliusL wrote...

We can just guess But when you spend couple of hours close to Rho object, you don't want to cover it in lead box. You want more people to see it, as you become thought compromised

Yeah,  I understand how it happened. It's just when I first played arrival I actually said "You left it out in the open?!" out load before Shepard did.

Also right there in the presidium. Of course, this was a rather uncareful decision.

But hey, I guess they figured out the devices well enough, to be sure that the shielding is sufficiently good. Would be a shame if the shielding turns out to be insufficient.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 29 août 2012 - 10:54 .

[satunnainen]

 After replaying yesterday the end parts I finally understand where did the IT theory come from: Last words before the rush to the beam: Alright folks, this is IT!
Anyway sorry, this has been mentioned about 523 times I bet

[Revan87]

Lunch time and two new things came up to my mind.

!!BattleStar galactica Spoilers ahead!!

1. Leviathan says Shepard brings only death. Exactly the same is mentioned in BSG. But it does not mean that everyone dies, it could mean synthesis. The death of organic and synthetic and the creation of something new.

End Spoilers

2. Is there ever in the entire trilogy actualy mentioned that Harbinger is a reaper? I mean yeah the alliance thinks he is one but is there actual prove that he is a reaper? As far as I remember Leviathan tells us that the first reapers were created after the image of harbinger and his (leviathan's) kind. So what if Harbinger is the AI Leviathan mentioned?

Well, I belive that the Omega DLC will follow soon and we will learn another piece of the puzzle such as who actualy built omega (as far as I remember in the third novel it is stated that the reapers built omega... But I have to check again to be sure) and for what purpose (crucible?).

Speculation for everyone

Modifié par Revan87, 29 août 2012 - 10:56 .

[ivenoidea]

Revan87 wrote...

Lunch time and two new things came up to my mind.

!!BattleStar galactica Spoilers ahead!!

1. Leviathan says Shepard brings only death. Exactly the same is mentioned in BSG. But it does not mean that everyone dies, it could mean synthesis. The death of organic and synthetic and the cration of something new.

End Spoilers
2. Is there ever in the entire trilogy actualy mentioned that harbinger is a reaper? I mean yeah the alliance thinks he is one but is there actual prove that he is a reaper? As far as I remember Leviathan tells us that the first reapers were created after the image of harbinger and his (leviathan's) kind. So what if Harbinger is the AI Leviathan mentioned?

Well, I belive that the Omega DLC will follow soon and we will learn another piece of the puzzle such as who actualy built omega (as far as I remember in the third novel it is stated that the reapers built omega... But I have to check again to be sure) and for what purpose (crucible?).

Speculation for everyone

1) Never watched that, can't comment.

2) Actually levi tells us that Harbinger is "the first true reaper". More proof that it is a reaper than we would ever need. Then there is the fact that it can take over the collectors. Oh and we see him during The Arrival, at the end of ME2 and during the end of ME3 and he always looks a lot like the other reapers.

[RavenEyry]

ivenoidea wrote...

2) Actually levi tells us that Harbinger is "the first true reaper". More proof that it is a reaper than we would ever need. Then there is the fact that it can take over the collectors. Oh and we see him during The Arrival, at the end of ME2 and during the end of ME3 and he always looks a lot like the other reapers.

I think the point is we're never directly TOLD the yellow eyed reaper is Harbinger, we just assumed. The reaper shaped hologram could be as much a disguise as the collector general.

I don't agree but it's an interesting idea.

[Revan87]

Yeah as I said, just came up to my mind and I couldn't remember Leviathan saying that harbinger is the first one. So thanks for telling me!

[RavenEyry]

It sounds like leviathan is pretty long. Odd since they supposedly spent a long time working only on EC.

[ivenoidea]

RavenEyry wrote...

It sounds like leviathan is pretty long. Odd since they supposedly spent a long time working only on EC.

Took me roughly 4 hours. Also, I'm pretty sure they started working on Leviathan quite a bit before EC was done, as indicated by the lines of dialogue that were leaked with EC.

That reminds me: has anybody checked Leviathan for "out of place" lines yet?


Edit: Look at what a friend of mine noticed: (He sucks at spelling, sorry for that.) www.reddit.com/r/Indoctrinated/comments/yzce4/leviathan_dlc_metro_2033_dark_one_reference/

There is also a shape that looks like the dark ones on the Harvester infested planet, next to the humanoid drawings and the leviathan.

Modifié par ivenoidea, 29 août 2012 - 11:34 .

[WolfyZA]

Revan87 wrote...

Well, I belive that the Omega DLC will follow soon and we will learn another piece of the puzzle such as who actualy built omega (as far as I remember in the third novel it is stated that the reapers built omega... But I have to check again to be sure) and for what purpose (crucible?).

Speculation for everyone

Here is more speculation for you.. Isnt t funny that the Crucible looks remarkably like Omega... Coincidence??? I doubt it.

[ivenoidea]

WolfyZA wrote...

Revan87 wrote...

Well, I belive that the Omega DLC will follow soon and we will learn another piece of the puzzle such as who actualy built omega (as far as I remember in the third novel it is stated that the reapers built omega... But I have to check again to be sure) and for what purpose (crucible?).

Speculation for everyone

Here is more speculation for you.. Isnt t funny that the Crucible looks remarkably like Omega... Coincidence??? I doubt it.

Although i don't really agree, here for reference: They are long and have a somewhat round part on top, thats about it though. Could still be that Omega was a former Crucible, we know the plans were changed quite a bit by all cycles, so it could be. Would be interesting how nobody noticed anything odd about it yet though.

images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090823203859/masseffect/images/c/c8/Omega_03.jpg

dyn2.media.forbiddenplanet.com/products/crucible15aprlowerres%2520.jpg

Modifié par ivenoidea, 29 août 2012 - 11:43 .

[Revan87]

Yeah I know they look very much the same.

I belive the leviathans have designed the crucible. The reapers discovered the plans in one of the cycles and prepared the citadel for it. The main function of the crucible is destroying synthetic life, so that the leviathans can rule once again. But the reapers installed a device on the citadel which prevents it from shooting. Synthesis and Control are Reaper/catalyst Options and Destroy is Leviathan option.

So something's telling me that we shouldn't use the crucible at all...
Ahhh it's just so confusing!

[ivenoidea]

About the Omega=Crucible thing... well it doesn't seem like it. All this stuff was built within our cycle.

"Originally an asteroid rich in element zero, Omega was briefly mined by the Protheans, who eventually abandoned it due to its thick, impenetrable crust.
Thousands of years later, nature did what even the Protheans could not: a collision with another asteroid broke Omega in half, exposing its trove of element zero for easy mining.

A rush ensued as corporations and private individuals tried to strike it rich on Omega, and thieves and outlaws followed in their wake.
As space became tight, construction of processing facilities extended vertically from the asteroid, creating Omega's jellyfish-like silhouette.
To prevent future collisions, the station is ringed with enormous mass effect field generators that redirect incoming debris."

Modifié par ivenoidea, 29 août 2012 - 11:51 .

[RavenEyry]

I think one of the books mentioned omega being older than the protheans, same as relays and citadel.

[Rifneno]

EpyonX3 wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Where is the evidence to support Shepard being immune to indoctrination?

1) Three entire games minus the last 10 minutes are Shepard wanting to wipe them out.
2) Leviathan wanting to study is uniqueness, why the reapers see him as a threat.
3) Harbinger wanting to study him, dead or alive.

There is something special about Shepard that reapers and levy wants. I think it's how he can fight the reapers for so long and be successfull.

So all the evidence we've found supporting IT is meh, but you think that's acceptable evidence that Shepard is immune to indoctrination for no discernable reason even after we've seen Leviathan pull him out of his own mind? ... I know you've always been respectful to us and I'm trying to find a respectful way to say that's absurd beyond words but I just can't find it. =/

McWhitey3 wrote...

For some reason I have this funny feeling that this DLC was to introduce the new villain/problem for future ME games.

You may be right. I'm not sure whether these things are allies or not right now, but I guaran-goddamn-tee you that they'll be enemies as soon as the Reapers are dealt with.

For the first time, I find control better than destroy in the literal interpretation. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and I don't trust that shady Shepbinger AI for a moment. But we now know for a fact that destroy will only rid of us one version of the Reapers. At least control has a chance for Shepbinger to be a force for good and the galaxy will need that force to fend off the Cthulhus.

EpyonX3 wrote...

That wasn't indoctrination. More like brute force control of his nervous system. They had coherent thoughts and were able to respond to TIM's attemots to convince them to stand down. Indoctrination doesn't work that way.

The comic "Mass Effect: Evolution" disagrees. Good read. Lots of similarities between the Arca Monolith and the control panel too.

CoolioThane wrote...

Who the hell are the slenderman-type paintings?! NO EXPLAINS

I particularly liked the ones of the dream trees.

SwobyJ wrote...

Ok, my boyfriend is doing the Thorian boss fight in ME1 as I type.

So weird how the Leviathans are somewhere in between the Thorian and the Reapers when it comes to indoctrination tactics.

Thorian Creepers are also basically organic husks.

WTF is with the Thorian. It was even mentioned in this DLC.

I think we have a lot yet to go before we understand.

I agree, the Thorian definitely has some role left to play. And people are mistaken in that Reaper indoctrination doesn't use pain as a control mechanism like the Thorian's does. Get an Ouija board and ask Paul Grayson. The Reapers definitely use pain, they just don't need to once they have their tentacles in deeply enough. No pun intended. Perhaps the Thorian doesn't either, we only know for sure about the pain because of that one guy and he may have been in the early stages.

byne wrote...

Poor little huskhead. All he needs is a loving owner!

He had a loving owner. A very loving owner. ... You found a fulgy old man with a toy that looks like a disembodied head. Think about it.

Arashi08 wrote...

so...did anyone catch why the Leivathan's could kill a Reaper with their brainwaves and take control over their husks now but still apparently lost to them?

If it was evolution they evolved very specifically I guess, not that I have a clue exactly how evolution works or anything lol

I'm wondering this too. I don't see how the AI could have defeated the Leviathans. It didn't have an army of superdreadnoughts at that point. Even if it could control organic minds, so could the Leviathans. And apparently to a greater degree. Something's wrong here. I'm not convinced that the Reapers ever did truly turn on the Leviathans. We may have simply found the Reapers' organic masters.

Another thing. The Leviathan of Dis was described as an organic dreadnought. While Reapers are organic-synthetic hybrids, once they're finished they appear completely synthetic even on the inside. Why was LoD refered to as an organic if it was a Reaper, and if it was a Leviathan then why did its indoctrinated slaves help the Reapers invade Khar'Shan? No, too much of this doesn't add up.

BREAKING NEWS: Tom Cruise has founded the First Church of Leviathan.

Also, for everyone that I ruined the huskhead for... you're welcome.

[ivenoidea]

About the Slenderman paintings:

www.reddit.com/r/Indoctrinated/comments/yzce4/leviathan_dlc_metro_2033_dark_one_reference/

Too tired to go through the entire wall of text though. Sorry.

Edit: Actually, one thing: When was the LOD called "organic"?

Modifié par ivenoidea, 29 août 2012 - 12:01 .

[Revan87]

ivenoidea wrote...

About the Omega=Crucible thing... well it doesn't seem like it. All this stuff was built within our cycle.

"Originally an asteroid rich in element zero, Omega was briefly mined by the Protheans, who eventually abandoned it due to its thick, impenetrable crust.
Thousands of years later, nature did what even the Protheans could not: a collision with another asteroid broke Omega in half, exposing its trove of element zero for easy mining.

A rush ensued as corporations and private individuals tried to strike it rich on Omega, and thieves and outlaws followed in their wake.
As space became tight, construction of processing facilities extended vertically from the asteroid, creating Omega's jellyfish-like silhouette.
To prevent future collisions, the station is ringed with enormous mass effect field generators that redirect incoming debris."

It's never said that the protheans built Omega. they used it as a mining facility. And if I remember correct,  in the third novel it is stated that Omega was built by the reapers. (I'm gonna look after it when I'm at home)
The Problem is we don't know how it looked before the collision.

Modifié par Revan87, 29 août 2012 - 12:03 .

[Rifneno]

Oh, and the Reapers built Omega. It's in Retribution. It was only revealed to Paul Grayson (and thus the reader) so it's not common knowledge. It's attributed to the Protheans because every single organic in the current cycle is retarded and assumes everything ever is the work of the Protheans. I'm surprised the numbnuts haven't claimed the Protheans invented stars.

[Rifneno]

ivenoidea wrote...

About the Slenderman paintings:

www.reddit.com/r/Indoctrinated/comments/yzce4/leviathan_dlc_metro_2033_dark_one_reference/

Too tired to go through the entire wall of text though. Sorry.

Edit: Actually, one thing: When was the LOD called "organic"?

Balak for one.  "Have you heard of it, Commander? The ancient organic dreadnought my people recovered from Jartar 20 years ago? Sound familiar?"

The description of Jartar is interesting too.

"Jartar is noted for the discovery of the "Leviathan of Dis," the apparent corpse of a genetically engineered living starship. The Leviathan was found in the bottom of a crater by a batarian survey team, and estimated to be nearly a billion years old. It "disappeared" after a visit to the system by a batarian dreadnought twenty years ago.

Since then, the batarians have steadfastly denied that the Leviathan existed at all – and all the more vociferously when shown recordings of the corpse made by salarian researchers."

[RavenEyry]

Rifneno wrote...
I'm surprised the numbnuts haven't claimed the Protheans invented stars.

I think the hanar do.

It seems carbon dating has fallen out of favour in the future. "There's no evidence Sovereing was anything more than a geth vessel."

[GethPrimeMKII]

RavenEyry wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
I'm surprised the numbnuts haven't claimed the Protheans invented stars.

I think the hanar do.

It seems carbon dating has fallen out of favour in the future. "There's no evidence Sovereing was anything more than a geth vessel."

I think its more of a cover-up, or an unwillingness to carbon-date Sovereign's remains. They didn't want the grim truth discovered.