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[RavenEyry]

pseudonymic wrote...

so... i haven't played leviathan and i don't intend to spend the money with it either. while i may have missed the discussion here since this thread moves so fast, has anyone been able to attach it to IT somehow? if so, how? it would be the only thing piquing my curiosity enough to look at the DLC.

Well the creatures that predate the reapers and have indoctrination powers put Shepard in a dream made up of their memories. And Shep wakes up from it with a very familiar breath.

[Revan87]

pseudonymic wrote...

so... i haven't played leviathan and i don't intend to spend the money with it either. while i may have missed the discussion here since this thread moves so fast, has anyone been able to attach it to IT somehow? if so, how? it would be the only thing piquing my curiosity enough to look at the DLC.

Well there isn't really something that directly affects IT. But it clearly (at least for me) shows that something big is happening in the background. The Leviathan(s) are up to something and I don't think we will like that.

[MegumiAzusa]

leonia42 wrote...

I also noted that one of the squad-mates (or LI in my case) tells Shepard to wake-up on the shuttle. She's certainly developed a habit for getting knocked out on a regular basis.

Also random thought based on conjecture: if Shepard had been indoctrinated or mind controlled or whatever by Leviathan this whole time, perhaps that is why the Reapers are so interested in her.

At any rate, there's new stuff to look for given how different the Leviathan's method of indoctrination is from what we've seen of the Reaper's methods.

It is interesting that the victims of the Leviathans don't seem to have a memory of it, but that could be attributed that they might delete the memory after use. The Reapers don't need that.
Very equal is how Shepard is in the same position as at the Guardian's and also only stands up after the "Breathe." just like after the Guardian's "Wake up."

[Leonia]

It's a bit.. disorienting now that we know there's "more going on" because we've seen the end of the story. It's tempting to want to find ways to circumvent that, say with IT theory or whatever because otherwise we're not likely to get resolution to the bigger plot that has just been revealed (and indeed we didn't get full closure on the plot before Leviathan). I'm all for bigger and more complex mysteries but can't we resolve them and tie up all the loose ends at some point?

[CoolioThane]

CoolioThane wrote...

I'm kinda religious

The Temptation of Christ is kinda fitting with the ending of MassEffect 3:

1. Stones into bread
2. Tower
3. Mountain

One could easily say that the Citadel is akin to Jerusalem, in that it is the centre of the Universe (world)

1. Right, Satan attempts to tempt Jesus, wondering in the wilderness alone, whilst fasting, to have stones turned into bread to eat. One could say that by doing so Jesus would be going back on his task. His task is to fast 40 days, 40 nights and obviously eating bread means he fails.

You could say this could be linked to Shepard and how his goal has been to destroy the Reapers, but I think the journey of Jesus during this temptation is more akin to the struggles of Shep. I say this because the Desert Jesus is wandering around, between Jerusalem and Jericho I think, which links with the game.

I like this part, kind of a leap, but Jerusalem=Citadel, Jericho (One of the first continuously settled cities in the history of mankind, thus maybe because it's first settlements, Humanity's first settlement is Eart)=Earth. The journey between the Citadel and Earth where this temptation takes place. We are on Earth when we are hit with the beam, we aim to get to the Citadel. Whilst we lie there on Earth unconscious, our mind is still wandering and this is where a link could be possible.

2. As Raven says, Satan tempts Jesus to prove he is the son of God by jumping off this tower in Jerusalem (Citadel). Obvious links to Synthesis here as in the tower. Interestingly, the Citadel tower is supposedly not where we are! Starkid tries to say "Prove you are the hero, do what is needed, prove to me. Synthesis is the only way, do it" is very Satany.

3. The mountain. "Bow down to me and all of this will be yours" Wow, if that is not control, I don't know what the **** is! Starkid says the Reapers will be yours, and with the Reapers you obviously have control over the rest of the Galaxy! Very nice link here. Notice the "act of worship" when you approach the ALTAR of the Reapers and you're bowing down to him when he tells you towake

So yeah, I guess this kind of makes sense?

[MegumiAzusa]

leonia42 wrote...

It's a bit.. disorienting now that we know there's "more going on" because we've seen the end of the story. It's tempting to want to find ways to circumvent that, say with IT theory or whatever because otherwise we're not likely to get resolution to the bigger plot that has just been revealed (and indeed we didn't get full closure on the plot before Leviathan). I'm all for bigger and more complex mysteries but can't we resolve them and tie up all the loose ends at some point?

They will do that in Mass Effect X, where X is >= 4.

[RavenEyry]

@Coolio: And don't let anyone say that's reaching or whatever. If the series had no biblical references then trying to use it would be ridiculous, but since it does (especially the ending) this is a highly appropriate topic.

[Rifneno]

I've never been a fan of the Shepard/Christ comparisons. Christ was known most for his love of peace and arguably being a pacifist. Shepard is covered in guns.

[Leonia]

Though topics of religious nature are usually frowned on, as is spam.

[CoolioThane]

RavenEyry wrote...

@Coolio: And don't let anyone say that's reaching or whatever. If the series had no biblical references then trying to use it would be ridiculous, but since it does (especially the ending) this is a highly appropriate topic.

Yeah, after you posted about the throwing off of the temple it did seem to work with the whole Satan v Jesus temptation story!

[Revan87]

CoolioThane wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

I'm kinda religious

The Temptation of Christ is kinda fitting with the ending of MassEffect 3:

1. Stones into bread
2. Tower
3. Mountain

One could easily say that the Citadel is akin to Jerusalem, in that it is the centre of the Universe (world)

1. Right, Satan attempts to tempt Jesus, wondering in the wilderness alone, whilst fasting, to have stones turned into bread to eat. One could say that by doing so Jesus would be going back on his task. His task is to fast 40 days, 40 nights and obviously eating bread means he fails.

You could say this could be linked to Shepard and how his goal has been to destroy the Reapers, but I think the journey of Jesus during this temptation is more akin to the struggles of Shep. I say this because the Desert Jesus is wandering around, between Jerusalem and Jericho I think, which links with the game.

I like this part, kind of a leap, but Jerusalem=Citadel, Jericho (One of the first continuously settled cities in the history of mankind, thus maybe because it's first settlements, Humanity's first settlement is Eart)=Earth. The journey between the Citadel and Earth where this temptation takes place. We are on Earth when we are hit with the beam, we aim to get to the Citadel. Whilst we lie there on Earth unconscious, our mind is still wandering and this is where a link could be possible.

2. As Raven says, Satan tempts Jesus to prove he is the son of God by jumping off this tower in Jerusalem (Citadel). Obvious links to Synthesis here as in the tower. Interestingly, the Citadel tower is supposedly not where we are! Starkid tries to say "Prove you are the hero, do what is needed, prove to me. Synthesis is the only way, do it" is very Satany.

3. The mountain. "Bow down to me and all of this will be yours" Wow, if that is not control, I don't know what the **** is! Starkid says the Reapers will be yours, and with the Reapers you obviously have control over the rest of the Galaxy! Very nice link here. Notice the "act of worship" when you approach the ALTAR of the Reapers and you're bowing down to him when he tells you towake

So yeah, I guess this kind of makes sense?

That's awesome!

[CoolioThane]

Rifneno wrote...

I've never been a fan of the Shepard/Christ comparisons. Christ was known most for his love of peace and arguably being a pacifist. Shepard is covered in guns.

But he is Jesus in essence. We're trying for peace the entire time. Destroying the Reapers is peace. Get tempted at the very end? Satan wins, we all lose

[RavenEyry]

leonia42 wrote...

Though topics of religious nature are usually frowned on, as is spam.

I assume it's alright to discuss religious references in the game? As long as we don't argue about religion.

[Rifneno]

leonia42 wrote...

Though topics of religious nature are usually frowned on, as is spam.

While I'm generally the first one to jump down anyone's throat for bringing up politics or religion, I think there's a difference between "God is real ur a gonna burn in hell!" "no God is a cartoon character ur a retard!" and a discussion about symbolism in the game that happens to be about a religion.

[pseudonymic]

thanks all for the several replies and input!

quick question. is there anything left unanswered in leviathan? or open to interpretation?

[Dwailing]

Rifneno wrote...

I've never been a fan of the Shepard/Christ comparisons. Christ was known most for his love of peace and arguably being a pacifist. Shepard is covered in guns.

All I have to say about Shepard/Christ and more broadly Mass Effect/Bible comparisons is this.  He's/it's one of the oldest characters/stories in EXISTANCE.  Of COURSE there will be parallels.  It's kind of impossible for there to NOT be parallels.  There are Biblical parallels in darn near EVERTHING in some way.  Some are intentional, some are not.

Modifié par Dwailing, 29 août 2012 - 01:53 .

[MegumiAzusa]

pseudonymic wrote...

thanks all for the several replies and input!

quick question. is there anything left unanswered in leviathan? or open to interpretation?

In fact there has been answered only if Harbinger was the first Reaper and which was the first race that created them and which was the first harvested race. Other then that it created a buttload of new ones.

[Rifneno]

pseudonymic wrote...

thanks all for the several replies and input!

quick question. is there anything left unanswered in leviathan? or open to interpretation?

Almost nothing is certain.  The Leviathans are less trustworthy than a cigarette company ad man.  I'm salivating for more.  Shut up and take my damn money, BW.

[Leonia]

RavenEyry wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Though topics of religious nature are usually frowned on, as is spam.

I assume it's alright to discuss religious references in the game? As long as we don't argue about religion.

That's fine but Coolio's post goes into a grey area (and didn't need to be reposted as if we couldn't read it the first time). Tell me how the symbolism relates to Shepard. I'm wary of direct comparisons because these sorts of themes are usually meant in an allegorical way, not in a literal "Shepard is definitely Space Jesus" way.

Modifié par leonia42, 29 août 2012 - 01:55 .

[SML93]

the idea that the leviathan of dis wasnt a reaper but an actual leviathan. The leviathan killed the reaper and left him there, then flew away so the batarians found a reaper corpse that indoctrinated the hegemony. If a leviathan died it would have decomposed because its still organic.

[Dwailing]

Rifneno wrote...

pseudonymic wrote...

thanks all for the several replies and input!

quick question. is there anything left unanswered in leviathan? or open to interpretation?

Almost nothing is certain.  The Leviathans are less trustworthy than a cigarette company ad man.  I'm salivating for more.  Shut up and take my damn money, BW.

As the joke goes, you're throwing your money at the screen but nothing is happening, right?   Also, I agree.  I can't wait to see what comes next.

[MegumiAzusa]

SML93 wrote...

the idea that the leviathan of dis wasnt a reaper but an actual leviathan. The leviathan killed the reaper and left him there, then flew away so the batarians found a reaper corpse that indoctrinated the hegemony. If a leviathan died it would have decomposed because its still organic.

Yeah, that's why the LoD is called organic in several sources.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 29 août 2012 - 01:57 .

[Leonia]

Don't think I can wait 3 to 6 months for the next DLC, feels like I'm on an IV drip of clues here and no idea what mystery the clues go with.

I need the truth. Like yesterday.

Speaking of organics, was cool to see the thorian mentioned again. Do you think that is what was being cross-bred with the plants on the mining station?

Modifié par leonia42, 29 août 2012 - 01:58 .

[Revan87]

Dwailing wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

pseudonymic wrote...

thanks all for the several replies and input!

quick question. is there anything left unanswered in leviathan? or open to interpretation?

Almost nothing is certain.  The Leviathans are less trustworthy than a cigarette company ad man.  I'm salivating for more.  Shut up and take my damn money, BW.

As the joke goes, you're throwing your money at the screen but nothing is happening, right?   Also, I agree.  I can't wait to see what comes next.

Same here! I'm gonna throw my entire money at the screen if I can get the next DLC right now!

[Rifneno]

SML93 wrote...

the idea that the leviathan of dis wasnt a reaper but an actual leviathan. The leviathan killed the reaper and left him there, then flew away so the batarians found a reaper corpse that indoctrinated the hegemony. If a leviathan died it would have decomposed because its still organic.

Depends on Jartar.  Decay happens because microscopic organisms make it happen.  Without those organisms, bodies can lay there indefinitely.  There's actually a desert on Earth that's so harsh those organisms can't survive and you can find corpses hundreds of years old that haven't decayed.