80611 réponses à ce sujet

[demersel]

EpyonX3 wrote...

demersel wrote...

I thought just accured to me... Leviathans created an AI. To solve their problem. And their problem was as they persieved it - the need of preserving organic life at any cost from the treat of being comepletely wiped out by the synthetics. So they created something, that was going to do that on it's own, without their direct intervention. And what is their way of interventing? mind control/ They have created Indoctrination! they thing that would do the work for them - it would make every organic concerned about this problem by rearrenging their thought pattens! then indoctrinated organics make themselves and the leviathans into harbinger and other reapers.

It wasn't their problem. It was the problem of the lesser organics like us. They felt they needed to step in and solve the problem for use. What they didn't expect was that the AI would count them as well in it's calculations for a solution. I can kind of see where the reapers get their arrogance from, especially Harbinger.

Yes. And how would giant crabs that operate by controlling minds step in?    By automatizing the process of mind control - and making it promote one idea - "organic life is in danger it needs to be preserved!".  of course that message could have evolved a bit over time (like what is the most powerfull thing in the universe according to giant space crabs? A giant space crab! Let's make all organic life into Giant ethernal space crabs! Also - all organics create synthetics - that will then inevitably rebel all organic life. What's the most advanced and power organics at the moment? Well, whatdoyouknow< Giant Space Crabs, of course! Must deal with them first! I know - I'll make them sieze to be organic - i'll enchance them with robotic parts - then they are not organics anymore, and thus by defenition will not create synthetics that will later wipe out all organic life."  etc. They are REALLY bad with  logic reasoning, and evidently programming. 

Modifié par demersel, 29 août 2012 - 04:03 .

[Rifneno]

demersel wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

demersel wrote...

I thought just accured to me... Leviathans created an AI. To solve their problem. And their problem was as they persieved it - the need of preserving organic life at any cost from the treat of being comepletely wiped out by the synthetics. So they created something, that was going to do that on it's own, without their direct intervention. And what is their way of interventing? mind control/ They have created Indoctrination! they thing that would do the work for them - it would make every organic concerned about this problem by rearrenging their thought pattens! then indoctrinated organics make themselves and the leviathans into harbinger and other reapers.

It wasn't their problem. It was the problem of the lesser organics like us. They felt they needed to step in and solve the problem for use. What they didn't expect was that the AI would count them as well in it's calculations for a solution. I can kind of see where the reapers get their arrogance from, especially Harbinger.

Yes. And how would giant crabs that operate by controlling minds step in?    By automatizing the process of mind control - and making it promote one idea - "organic life is in danger it needs to be preserved!".  of course that message could have evolved a bit over time (like what is the most powerfull thing in the universe according to giant space crabs? A giant space crab! Let's make all organic life into Giant ethernal space crabs! Also - all organics create synthetics - that will then inevitably rebel all organic life. What's the most advanced and power organics at the moment? Well, whatdoyouknow< Giant Space Crabs, of course! Must deal with them first! I know - I'll make them sieze to be organic - i'll enchance them with robotic parts - then they are not organics anymore, and thus by defenition will not create synthetics that will later wipe out all organic life."  etc. They are REALLY bad with  logic reasoning, and evidently programming. 

Leviathan.  Windows Millennium Edition Leader Programer.

[Rifneno]

Hmm. I just had an idea. What if the Thorian was the larval form of a Leviathan?

[demersel]

And you know what? The leviathans said that this AI is not gonna stop until he finds what he is looking for... Now what that could be? How about for the last leviathans - so there is no more meddling arrogant giant space crabs, that think they know better, and can decide the fate of the galaxy? what if it was all for taking THEM out, before they think about something even more stupid than this Organics VS SyntheticsProblem solvingAI?

Cause, think about it. Say you'll defeat the reapers. But now there leviathans still alive - and they will sooner or later decide to rule the galaxy again (no more reapers, remember)  and then, some time after that they'll decide that something needs to be done about that OrganicsVSSynthetic promblem - it's still there after all... and so they...

Those Giant Crabs really need to die. 

Modifié par demersel, 29 août 2012 - 04:15 .

[MaximizedAction]

demersel wrote...
that fits - the enemy is the indoctrination itself. And in the end of ME3 you fight it! That sounds like an ending to me. Cause if you manage to coquer indoctrination itself, and prevail - that IS the real point of victory. The battle starts and ends with you. And once you've prevailed - it is only a matter of time and patience that you reach total victory. 
Remember - its Shepard's story that ends - and conquering indoctrination is the highest point of it (or the lowest if you succomb)  - the rest is just combat. So naturally you'd fight the harbinger - he can't do anything to you at this point other than shoot you - everything else already failed. And he wasn't exactly good at killing you before. ME2< remember? 

Still anticlimatic in my opinion. Too personal for a trilogy. Also, ME, in my opinion, was never so deeply psychological that it could easily dispose of the element of action and combat, and leave 'only' dialog, especially when it comes to the most important part: the climax of the whole trilogy.

So there's got to be the most crazy ass piece of combat, and while all the Destroyer battles (especially the last one in London) were impressive, it's not increasing towards the end, it's decreasing in action.

[RavenEyry]

Rifneno wrote...

Hmm. I just had an idea. What if the Thorian was the larval form of a Leviathan?

Thorian was a plant though, if ExoGeni scientists aren't as incompetent as every other scientist ever.

[Dwailing]

MaximizedAction wrote...

demersel wrote...
that fits - the enemy is the indoctrination itself. And in the end of ME3 you fight it! That sounds like an ending to me. Cause if you manage to coquer indoctrination itself, and prevail - that IS the real point of victory. The battle starts and ends with you. And once you've prevailed - it is only a matter of time and patience that you reach total victory. 
Remember - its Shepard's story that ends - and conquering indoctrination is the highest point of it (or the lowest if you succomb)  - the rest is just combat. So naturally you'd fight the harbinger - he can't do anything to you at this point other than shoot you - everything else already failed. And he wasn't exactly good at killing you before. ME2< remember? 

Still anticlimatic in my opinion. Too personal for a trilogy. Also, ME, in my opinion, was never so deeply psychological that it could easily dispose of the element of action and combat, and leave 'only' dialog, especially when it comes to the most important part: the climax of the whole trilogy.

So there's got to be the most crazy ass piece of combat, and while all the Destroyer battles (especially the last one in London) were impressive, it's not increasing towards the end, it's decreasing in action.

All I want is some kind of boss fight with Harby dang it!  I don't care what kind of Contrived Coincidence they have to use to give me that, I WANT it!

[Dwailing]

RavenEyry wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Hmm. I just had an idea. What if the Thorian was the larval form of a Leviathan?

Thorian was a plant though, if ExoGeni scientists aren't as incompetent as every other scientist ever.

Well, only almost every movie/book/tv series/game scientist ever.  Most real life scientists aren't NEARLY that incompetent.

[EpyonX3]

demersel wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

demersel wrote...

I thought just accured to me... Leviathans created an AI. To solve their problem. And their problem was as they persieved it - the need of preserving organic life at any cost from the treat of being comepletely wiped out by the synthetics. So they created something, that was going to do that on it's own, without their direct intervention. And what is their way of interventing? mind control/ They have created Indoctrination! they thing that would do the work for them - it would make every organic concerned about this problem by rearrenging their thought pattens! then indoctrinated organics make themselves and the leviathans into harbinger and other reapers.

It wasn't their problem. It was the problem of the lesser organics like us. They felt they needed to step in and solve the problem for use. What they didn't expect was that the AI would count them as well in it's calculations for a solution. I can kind of see where the reapers get their arrogance from, especially Harbinger.

Yes. And how would giant crabs that operate by controlling minds step in?    By automatizing the process of mind control - and making it promote one idea - "organic life is in danger it needs to be preserved!".  of course that message could have evolved a bit over time (like what is the most powerfull thing in the universe according to giant space crabs? A giant space crab! Let's make all organic life into Giant ethernal space crabs! Also - all organics create synthetics - that will then inevitably rebel all organic life. What's the most advanced and power organics at the moment? Well, whatdoyouknow< Giant Space Crabs, of course! Must deal with them first! I know - I'll make them sieze to be organic - i'll enchance them with robotic parts - then they are not organics anymore, and thus by defenition will not create synthetics that will later wipe out all organic life."  etc. They are REALLY bad with  logic reasoning, and evidently programming. 

See the Levy's didn't create the AI with that exact purpose. It was designed to evolve and find a solution to the lesser organic's problem. That solution became the harvest. 

[Rifneno]

RavenEyry wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Hmm. I just had an idea. What if the Thorian was the larval form of a Leviathan?

Thorian was a plant though, if ExoGeni scientists aren't as incompetent as every other scientist ever.

True.  Though it wasn't exactly a plant like we know them though.  They're capable of a lot of things I wouldn't have imagined any natural lifeform would be capable of.  Who's to say what else they're capable of?  It's just a little odd that we've found 2 alien species that share so many properties.  The size, the mind control, the lifespan, the intellect...  I'm not saying they are related, but we should definitely consider the possibility.

[spotlessvoid]

I hate even saying this but what the catalyst is looking for is probably an organic capable of making synthesis happen- Shepard

[demersel]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Still anticlimatic in my opinion. Too personal for a trilogy. Also, ME, in my opinion, was never so deeply psychological that it could easily dispose of the element of action and combat, and leave 'only' dialog, especially when it comes to the most important part: the climax of the whole trilogy.

So there's got to be the most crazy ass piece of combat, and while all the Destroyer battles (especially the last one in London) were impressive, it's not increasing towards the end, it's decreasing in action.

Yes it does. But remeber, that some of the most imposrtant decisions are always done outside of combat. In ME1 you could even make Saren, the big bad!, you could talk him into shooting himself, instead of fighting him. And also - in ME2 you do have to fight your way through the collective base... but the real decision is not of the combat - you either destroy or keep the cpllector base, and this is what ends ME2. The Terminator is just there - he's not a boss - he's just an obsticle - the real enemy there is Harbinger and you give him the middle finger by destroyng collector general - and you do that by either choosing to blow up the base or by choosing to pusle it. Also there is Illusive man - and you deal with him also only through dialog. 

And you'll prabably still get the chance to fight harbinger - and that would be epic - what if you'll  have to run towards him - climd into him , while he's trying to kill you and then reach his heart and omny  blade him? Wouldn't you want that? But for that to happen we first has to establish that harbinger doesn't have any other power over shepard. And this is what ME3 gave us. 

[Rifneno]

spotlessvoid wrote...

I hate even saying this but what the catalyst is looking for is probably an organic capable of making synthesis happen- Shepard

Watch the language please.

[demersel]

spotlessvoid wrote...

I hate even saying this but what the catalyst is looking for is probably an organic capable of making synthesis happen- Shepard

But that would still mean that the crucible is of reaper origin or at least was inspired by the reapers - and that it's a trap. 

[RavenEyry]

spotlessvoid wrote...

I hate even saying this but what the catalyst is looking for is probably an organic capable of making synthesis happen- Shepard

Still doesn't explain HOW melting Shepard is the key to making synthesis work.

[Sero303]

demersel wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

I hate even saying this but what the catalyst is looking for is probably an organic capable of making synthesis happen- Shepard

But that would still mean that the crucible is of reaper origin or at least was inspired by the reapers - and that it's a trap. 

"IT'S A TRAP!"

[demersel]

Rifneno wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Hmm. I just had an idea. What if the Thorian was the larval form of a Leviathan?

Thorian was a plant though, if ExoGeni scientists aren't as incompetent as every other scientist ever.

True.  Though it wasn't exactly a plant like we know them though.  They're capable of a lot of things I wouldn't have imagined any natural lifeform would be capable of.  Who's to say what else they're capable of?  It's just a little odd that we've found 2 alien species that share so many properties.  The size, the mind control, the lifespan, the intellect...  I'm not saying they are related, but we should definitely consider the possibility.

Except the thorian would have plenty of time to turn into a leviathan is it was the case - he gave me the impression as if he was fully matured and grown, And this is his form for all ethernity. 

[demersel]

Sero303 wrote...

demersel wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

I hate even saying this but what the catalyst is looking for is probably an organic capable of making synthesis happen- Shepard

But that would still mean that the crucible is of reaper origin or at least was inspired by the reapers - and that it's a trap. 

"IT'S A TRAP!"

"Laugh it up, Fuzzball!"

[Sero303]

demersel wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Hmm. I just had an idea. What if the Thorian was the larval form of a Leviathan?

Thorian was a plant though, if ExoGeni scientists aren't as incompetent as every other scientist ever.

True.  Though it wasn't exactly a plant like we know them though.  They're capable of a lot of things I wouldn't have imagined any natural lifeform would be capable of.  Who's to say what else they're capable of?  It's just a little odd that we've found 2 alien species that share so many properties.  The size, the mind control, the lifespan, the intellect...  I'm not saying they are related, but we should definitely consider the possibility.

Except the thorian would have plenty of time to turn into a leviathan is it was the case - he gave me the impression as if he was fully matured and grown, And this is his form for all ethernity. 

The Thorian is just a thorian, it's not a "leviathan-baby" or "Apex infant" it's just another superior mind controlling entity that uses the "lesser" beings for it's own purpose.

I'm curious though, would the thorian be able to control reaper ground forces? or would the reaper tech override the throians particles?

But again, "it doesn't matter", nothing really matters to me until I find out what the "next step" is... how do you go on from this point?
 
Are we doomed with prequels and DLC's "pre-ending"?

Maybe we will get a DLC that tells how the star child and the leviathan/apex created the thorian....just because.

[Rifneno]

demersel wrote...

Except the thorian would have plenty of time to turn into a leviathan is it was the case - he gave me the impression as if he was fully matured and grown, And this is his form for all ethernity.

What do you expect it to say, "don't pick on me I'm a baby"? The Leviathans in this DLC said they're the progeny of the ones that created the AI/Reapers. Progeny means immediate descendant. So these things have a lifespan measured in hundreds of millions or more. The only thing we know of the Thorian's age is that it was there when the Protheans were. So by Leviathan standards, yeah, it's not even toddler age.

[demersel]

Remember, in one interview about ME3 story, arounf the time arrival came out - the said that it is gping to be a quest. All over the galaxy, searching for the pieces for the great puzzle. And that there will be some ways that first present themselves to you might turn out a dead end.

[demersel]

Rifneno wrote...

What do you expect it to say, "don't pick on me I'm a baby"? The Leviathans in this DLC said they're the progeny of the ones that created the AI/Reapers. Progeny means immediate descendant. So these things have a lifespan measured in hundreds of millions or more. The only thing we know of the Thorian's age is that it was there when the Protheans were. So by Leviathan standards, yeah, it's not even toddler age.

ok
He does look remarkably like the first concept for the reaper larva from ME2 collector edition artbook. 
It could very well be true. 


Quote: "The countless desighs for the Reaper-Human Larva (above and previous page) covered a full spectrum between Reaper and human forms"  
In the picture there is some human elements, and some that resemble the thorinan - so this means that the reaper form of the larve looks almost exactly as the thorian. So yes, it fits.

Modifié par demersel, 29 août 2012 - 04:42 .

[Sero303]

Rifneno wrote...

demersel wrote...

Except the thorian would have plenty of time to turn into a leviathan is it was the case - he gave me the impression as if he was fully matured and grown, And this is his form for all ethernity.

What do you expect it to say, "don't pick on me I'm a baby"? The Leviathans in this DLC said they're the progeny of the ones that created the AI/Reapers. Progeny means immediate descendant. So these things have a lifespan measured in hundreds of millions or more. The only thing we know of the Thorian's age is that it was there when the Protheans were. So by Leviathan standards, yeah, it's not even toddler age.

I thought Saren wanted the thorian as a means of getting info on the rachni? I could be mistaken though I haven't played the original in a while.

[EpyonX3]

I'd like to know more about the Leviathans. How they traveled through space? Do they need to be under water? How old they really are?

[spotlessvoid]

Rifneno wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

I hate even saying this but what the catalyst is looking for is probably an organic capable of making synthesis happen- Shepard

Watch the language please.

****. Sorry