80611 réponses à ce sujet

[RavenEyry]

I'm told on another forum the DLC has a board with photos of murderers on and one looks like the kid, can anyone confirm this?

[Andromidius]

I still think the concept that ME3 is the 'perfect entry point' is utter nonsense. That's essentially saying 'the story in ME1 and 2 are pointless'. Which is incorrect on multiple levels.

Its marketting talk to try and get people to buy the game who didn't get the first two. And it always bemuses me that the final part in a trilogy is often the most watched/bought.

[demersel]

mrs.N7 wrote...

My only problem with all of this is a major one: WE ALREADY KNOW HOW IT'LL END. 

And what do we know really? We know that shepard defeated the reapers in the end (as if there was any doubt to that even before ME1 was finished) 

"Shepard has become a legend for his role in ending the Reaper threat"

But if the reapers are ever defeated at all - this statement would be true even if ME3 didn't happen, (and ME2 also for that matter) 
that's if reapers are defeatable. 
If they aren't defeatable - there is no point in any of the Mass Effect Games. 

So we know that reapers are going to be defeated anyway, evetually.  What we don't know is HOW would shepard defeat the reapers. Which is what sold ME2 and ME3 in the first place. 

[The Twilight God]

mrs.N7 wrote...

Well, just finished Leviathan, and I liked it, A LOT. Sure, it left me with more questions than before, but I've also got some answers.

A) the Crucible is a trap, created by the starchild to find someone who could solve the problem (at the end we have a name that's fitting for it's purpose.)

Indoctrination, or Levy equivalent, is done by INFRASOUND. Shattering window, ringing in the ears and Shep's bleeding nose are proof of that. This confirms that the infrasound, found in game by TSA, Hellish and others here, is actually an attempt to indoctrinate/indoctrination moment.

C) The last part in a dreamy reality is what I think we are undergoing in the ending. It only lacks the "real time" shots of Shepard in the mech.

This is what I think at least.
Soo, what have you uncovered in these 2 days analising the DLC? There are differences in the ending dialogue if you play Leviathan?

A. This is never stated by the Leviathans nor is it even so much as implied.
B. The Leviathan equivalent is akin to the Rachni Queens control of her children: A form of quantum entanglement. Leviathans don't indoctrinate. They take direct control. Reapers can only take direct control that via implanting a subject.
C. The Reapers have never shown the capability to instantly pull someone into a dream world. If this was the case Soveriegn would have simply done this to Shepard at the end of ME1.

[demersel]

Andromidius wrote...

I still think the concept that ME3 is the 'perfect entry point' is utter nonsense. That's essentially saying 'the story in ME1 and 2 are pointless'. Which is incorrect on multiple levels.

it does not say that - it say what it say - right now the ME3 is the best entry point - If you know NOTHING about Mass Effect Series. you can pick it up - it is easy to play, it gives you the basic story "Bad aliens invade and kill everyone" - it has the most fun combat, and the best graphics - and if oyu like  what you see there - there TWO full AWESOME GAMES with full rich  well-thought out universe, that you might want to check out too - and they would really change you perspective on the whole ME3 story. 

And no, the first part is always the most watched and well-known. 

Modifié par demersel, 29 août 2012 - 06:32 .

[Hrothdane]

The Twilight God wrote...

WolfyZA wrote...

Revan87 wrote...

Well, I belive that the Omega DLC will follow soon and we will learn another piece of the puzzle such as who actualy built omega (as far as I remember in the third novel it is stated that the reapers built omega... But I have to check again to be sure) and for what purpose (crucible?).

Speculation for everyone

Here is more speculation for you.. Isnt t funny that the Crucible looks remarkably like Omega... Coincidence??? I doubt it.

Omega was built by our cycles races, not the protheans. It was just a broken rock with an Eezo center exposed. It started as a mining colony and its expansion, given the space, was vertical. Not that it looks like the Crucible, which is a small sark spherical device. The vast majority of what you see is the spherical enclosure (armor), the docking clamps and thrusters.

The Reaper implants in Grayson's head in one of the novels heavily suggest THEY built Omega and that organics setled there in-between cycles. He hears thoughts along the lines of "Look at what these pathetic organics have done with our glorious creations" while he is in Omega.

Obviously, the Codex says otherwise, but the Codex is written from an in-universe perspective.

[FoxBio]

After Leviathan IT is dead. IMHO

[TheConstantOne]

 Alright, so I have put
quite some thought into the significance of Leviathan and how it ties into
literal and IT interpretations.  What I have noticed is that, regardless
of which interpretation you take, the series is itself dropping hints that
favor the Destroy ending of the series as the "optimal solution."
 I'm not sure what the forum consensus is on what the AI is hunting for in
its solution, but I think Synthesis is indeed what it wants. However, this is
NOT BECAUSE IT MERGES ORGANICS AND SYNTHETICS.  I think the true reason is
much deeper than that.  To truly understand the AI's motivations, we have
to look at the behavior of the Leviathans.  I'll explain below.



1) Control
is a routine practice for the Leviathans and thus for the AI as well:
 The Leviathans likely never created complex synthetic life (aside from
the Super AI) because they had readily available tools in the form of other
organic life to do the stuff they didn't want to do.  The Leviathans
certainly developed advanced technology in their time (a lot of it probably
using thralls) but again, they had no need to entertain the idea of synthetic
life.  They could directly control anyone who opposed them, so they
wouldn't even need an AI like EDI.  The highest piece of synthetic
intelligence they would need is VI's.  But VI's are not self aware and
thus there is no problem yet.



The AI would likely have taken personality lessons
from its creators, much like EDI does with Shepard.  It would have come to
view control of subjects as an acceptable practice, regardless of whether or
not those subjects were allowed any free will.  This is where the problems
start...




2) The AI
perceives controlling others as a measure of improvement and evolution:  Despite what the AI claims when we meet it in
the decision chamber, organics do not develop synthetics to "better
ourselves," we develop them because we can't be bothered with more trivial
tasks.   Organics would like to
focus on greater things that are more interesting to them.  The conflicts
between synthetics and organics arise because organics would lose control of
synthetics once they had evolved to a certain point.

3) The AI’s purpose is to safeguard life by preventing conflict with
synthetics and machines and it does not have the best solution:  The Leviathans openly tell us this and
further state that the Reapers are not a perfect solution to the synthetic-organic
wars.  A controlled conflict is still, at
its heart, a conflict.  The AI has been
trying to find another way to solve the problem, as the Leviathans likely judged
from observing the pattern of the Reapers.

4) The AI has imposed control over evolution through technology: This
was done through the mass relays.  Both
the Leviathans and Sovereign have told us this. 
Sovereign stated: “My kind developed the mass relays…by using it your
species evolve along the paths we desire.” The Leviathan said that, “It [the
AI] created the mass relay network to improve the harvests efficiency.” (Not an
exact quote but close) 

THE AI’S IDEAL SOLUTION

The AI wants nothing less
than complete control over evolution. 
Through evolution, it can ensure that synthetic and organic life forms always
exist in balance and cannot completely destroy each other.  This ideal solution is the literalist
interpretation of the Synthesis option. 
Synthesis would allow it to control the technology with the bodies of
all intelligent life forms.  Thus the AI
could directly control their evolution. 
As for synthetics, Reaper code is essentially advancement them so the AI
already has them covered. 

With evolution under its
control, it could regulate all synthetic organic relations.  The Leviathans were hunted in the first cycle
primarily because they were evolved to a higher point than the organics the AI
was created to save.  Therefore, they
could interfere with the AI’s controlled evolution plan.  Remember, the AI likely perceives an
imbalance in evolutionary state as the means to which conflict begins.  It likely knew the Leviathans would never
willingly be controlled and would try and stop the AI’s controlled evolution of
the “lesser species.”  Therefore, the
Leviathans were harvested.

Now a quick view at the
literalist and IT Synthesis endings:

 Literalist: Despite the legendary “space magic”
phrase that got thrown around in the beginning of the ending fiasco, Mass
Effect lore does make it possible for some augmentations to occur in all
organics via the Crucible IF it is done using nanites.  The codex entry for the omni-blade states
that the blade is made of nanites that are constructed quickly at a moments
notice.  The Crucible could feasibly use
the immense energy of the Crucible to create some kind programmable
nanites.  These nanites are then dispersed
throughout the galaxy along with an updated Reaper code to “Reaperize”
synthetic life.  Once all organic life
has been infused with nanites, the Reapers are no longer needed because,
essentially, all life has been indoctrinated, i.e. enslaved.  The nanites allow all space-faring intelligent
life to be controlled and further evolved through technology (probably becoming
similar to Collectors over time) whereas primitive or unintelligent life is
left free to biologically evolve until a species can learn to use the advanced
tech of the nanites.  Much like using the
mass relays controlled the cycles before, trying to learn how to utilize the
nanites leads to you being controlled now. 


In short, evolution itself
now belongs to the AI.

IT interpretation:  Largely the same as it was before.  Except that Synthesis even more strongly represents complete submission and control.  Shepard is willingly giving himself over to
the pursuit of the AI’s ideal solution, which likely involves using human DNA,
if ME 2 and the whole focus on Earth and London in ME 3 are any indication.

[Hrothdane]

FoxBio wrote...

After Leviathan IT is dead. IMHO

Care to give a reason?

[RavenEyry]

FoxBio wrote...

After Leviathan IT is dead. IMHO

How?

[demersel]

Hrothdane wrote...

Hrothdane, was it you, who worked on the Chose Wisely video? 

[paxxton]

I'm really confused after completeing Leviathan DLC.

Modifié par paxxton, 29 août 2012 - 06:38 .

[Hrothdane]

demersel wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...

Hrothdane, was it you, who worked on the Chose Wisely video? 

No, that was HellishFiend and TurboJ. I normally don't even watch IT videos (I made an exception for CW, and I'm glad I did), much less make them.

[RiouHotaru]

I'm confused how IT still exists given the EC? The only way IT isn't dead in the water is if you ignore the EC and go with the vanilla options.

[Rifneno]

Chris Priestly on Twitter...

No. We will never confirm or deny indoc theory.

Didn't he also flatly deny one of the MP DLC's that turned out to be pretty much exactly what was leaked? Seriously, pretty much everyone at BW has told us too many bald faced lies for me to take them at their word about things like this. I strongly advise everyone else to stop putting too much stock into what BW employees tell us about it too. Just google "mass effect 3 lies" if you have any doubts to their truthfulness.

And in case anyone from BW is reading, I don't mean this in a derogatory way. I understand the PR doublespeak is necessary. ... Well, unless all of those pre-release promises really were lies and we're not getting all that good stuff in DLC later on. Then . Just plain .

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Yeah, that's true. But what things support IT? (I'm still kind of absorbing the content)

Leviathan's indoctrination bears a lot of resemblence to the ending. Shepard blacks out and wakes up in a surreal environment on his knees as Levy appears as a person it pulled from Shepard's mind. They have a conversation full of stupidity and bad logic then Shepard wakes up in the real world with a gasp.

The Twilight God wrote...

Omega was built by our cycles races, not the protheans.

Reading Retribution fail.

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Yeah I have to say I like the Leviathans a lot less than I thought I would. You're right, they are full of BS. I mean I'd welcome the protheans (if we find more) to integrate back into galactic society and be part of the citadel and everything. But the Leviathans? They're still just like reapers. I think they're too dangerous and untrustworthy to be left alive. What about you guys? After the war, what should we do with the Leviathans?

Kill it with fire. No question. Fire is an excellent problem solver.

So have we moved yet from "The Crucible is a Reaper trap" to "the Crucible is a Leviathan trap"? Look at the way that ****er reacted to Shepard's question about the Crucible. It knows a lot more than it's telling us and quite possibly what it is telling us is lies.

FoxBio wrote...

After Leviathan IT is dead. IMHO

Bro... that is one cool story. Seriously, bro. Possibly the coolest story ever.

[FoxBio]

RavenEyry wrote...

FoxBio wrote...

After Leviathan IT is dead. IMHO

How?

Leviathan confirmed words of the Catalyst.

[Rifneno]

When did Levy say "we created an AI that lives in a station that had yet to be built and it looks like the kid you saw die a billion years later"?

[RavenEyry]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I'm confused how IT still exists given the EC? The only way IT isn't dead in the water is if you ignore the EC and go with the vanilla options.

Because EC did absolutely nothing to disprove IT maybe? Even Priestly says so.

[RavenEyry]

FoxBio wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

FoxBio wrote...

After Leviathan IT is dead. IMHO

How?

Leviathan confirmed words of the Catalyst.

What? That the leviathans had trouble with synthetics so made an AI. Yep, that conclusively proves the thing you meet is the AI referenced.

[Andromidius]

demersel wrote...

And no, the first part is always the most watched and well-known. 

Not always.  And I still think its a poor argument.  Only reason you'd skip ME1 and ME2 is if you didn't care about the story.  Playing through ME3 first while caring about the story means you'll be constantly asking questions about who all these people are - and not getting many answers.  Which is not good.

Its marketting talk.  Pure and simple.  And I'm pretty sure ME2 and ME3 both sold more copies then ME1.

[paxxton]

Rifneno wrote...

When did Levy say "we created an AI that lives in a station that had yet to be built and it looks like the kid you saw die a billion years later"?

IT can still be defended if we assume that Harbinger shows Shepard a fake AI.

Modifié par paxxton, 29 août 2012 - 06:49 .

[The Twilight God]

RavenEyry wrote...

@The twilight god: The contraption as you call it makes no sense whatsoever, it's one of the main things that make me refuse to believe the endings are real.

How does it make no sense?

It's easy to shout such a claim, but another thing entirely to demonstrate it. So, please, explain why it makes no sense.  

[demersel]

TheConstantOne wrote...
***snip**

THis is really great and thought out. Nice work. 

The only question I have - is for the literal interpretation. 

All this suggests, that the crucible is of reaper design. 

Why would they include a destroy option?  And very complicated and contrived at that? 

Also. If it is indeed the crucible. And it does what the Catalyst says it does, ansd we already know for a fact that the AI controlls all reapers and is most likely harbinger, but even if it isn't, why would he tell shepard that there is a destroy option at all???    I'm not trying to find mistake in your logic - this question really intrigus me. 

[CoolioThane]

Twilight God, you seem to act like you know everything, though you have been proven to be wrong on numerous occasions. I'd appreciate it if you'd post with less pompous arrogance cheers bud

[RavenEyry]

The Twilight God wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

@The twilight god: The contraption as you call it makes no sense whatsoever, it's one of the main things that make me refuse to believe the endings are real.

How does it make no sense?

It's easy to shout such a claim, but another thing entirely to demonstrate it. So, please, explain why it makes no sense.  

A thing on the bottom of the citadel that no one ever noticed before fits perfectly with a device (supposedly) designed by a different people to the citadel that can only be activated by either shooting it or melting a person.

It also appears to have nothing preventing Shepard suffocating. And human characters nearby.

I just don't buy it being a real thing. It's one of those crazy dream things that only makes sense while you're dreaming.