80611 réponses à ce sujet

[RavenEyry]

The Twilight God wrote...

You clearly have not read my thesis so I don't think you're in a position to make any negative statement about it.

I have read your thesis so I could make a negative comment if I wanted to, but I haven't, I'm not sure why you're leaping to defend something I haven't questioned.

2. The Citadel uses mass effect fields to maintain a breathable environment

On the inside yeah. The choice-o-matic is on the outside.

[demersel]

By the way, what do you guys make out of the Citadel Ad featuring Jack's face? I didn't get an answer last time I asked this.

Modifié par demersel, 29 août 2012 - 07:37 .

[RavenEyry]

legaldinho wrote...

Subject: The red poppy that features in Leviathan.

Motive: This poppy is everywhere on the citadel. I think it appears elsewhere too, i think. It features everywhere in Dr Bryson's lab's balcony.

The red poppy is also a symbol of armistice and we all know the citadel has some kind of calming effect.

[demersel]

RavenEyry wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

You clearly have not read my thesis so I don't think you're in a position to make any negative statement about it.

I have read your thesis so I could make a negative comment if I wanted to, but I haven't, I'm not sure why you're leaping to defend something I haven't questioned.

2. The Citadel uses mass effect fields to maintain a breathable environment

On the inside yeah. The choice-o-matic is on the outside.

Just ignore him.  He calls his post about a video game's lore a thesis/ 

[Hrothdane]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

paxxton wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

1.65 Gb download so quite hefty

Less than the EC. Fishy.

Thoughts on this? Why is EC a larger file than Leviathan?

Leviathan is 3.12 GB unpacked according to the resident data-mining king on Hold The Line.

Still waiting for the full rundown on the contents.

[TheConstantOne]

demersel wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...
***snip**

THis is really great and thought out. Nice work. 

The only question I have - is for the literal interpretation. 

All this suggests, that the crucible is of reaper design. 

Why would they include a destroy option?  And very complicated and contrived at that? 

Also. If it is indeed the crucible. And it does what the Catalyst says it does, ansd we already know for a fact that the AI controlls all reapers and is most likely harbinger, but even if it isn't, why would he tell shepard that there is a destroy option at all???    I'm not trying to find mistake in your logic - this question really intrigus me. 

That question bugs me too.  The best I've been able to come up with when thinking from the literalist side is that by building the Crucible to completion the AI feels that organics have managed to evolve past what the AI intended and, consequently, the Reaper solution is onlying delaying the chaos and not solving anything.  Destroy would thus be a valid solution for the AI (albeit an unfavored one) precisely because it would remove the Reapers and allow organics to build their own solution.  While not a preferred outcome, if it does believe its solution will fail sooner than expected because the galaxy "changed the variables" then perhaps they will change them again.  Basically the AI admits that it couldn't find an ideal solution before organics managed to catch up to its plans and therefore it may never find its solution at all.  Why then should the AI try to control evolution when possibly the best idea possible for it to implement unassisted has failed to control evolution?

Control becomes the exact opposite end of the spectrum in the literalist view.  The AI cedes power to you because its best ideas failed thanks to you.  Perhaps your perspective leading the Reapers will solve the problem where the AI could not. 

Therefore the 3 literalist choice become a matter of who decides the new solution for the galaxy:

Destroy=the galaxy chooses its fate
Control=Shepard chooses the galaxy's fate
Synthesis=the AI chooses the galaxy's fate

That's the best I can answer that question based on current info.  All this being said, I believe in IT, personally.  Specifically, I would be extremely surprised if the decision chamber was actually real.  Especially since Shepard is shown to be on his knees at the beginning of the Leviathan mind chat.  However, looking at things from both literal and IT perspectives gives great stroy context and also helps keep us grounded and on our toes 

I'd also like to point out that regardless of interpretations of the ending, it seems that the same themes are present in each ending.  The galaxy is essentially being held hostage by Reapers in 2 out of the 3 endings.  Paragon or renegade, a Shepard-AI is ruling with Reapers and probably indoctrination=a dictatorship.  And synthesis....see my previous post haha.  The main question to be resolved at the end of ME 3 for me, literalist or IT perspective, is this: do the races of the galaxy deserve the chance to choose their own fate and their own evolution? I believe that they do and hence I choose Destroy...although when the endings first came out I tried really hard to justify Synthesis.  That was...an epic fail haha

[demersel]

Also the DLC suggests connection between the leviathans and Eezo - that may very well turn out to be like in the dune - between the worms and the spice.

[BansheeOwnage]

Hrothdane wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

paxxton wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

1.65 Gb download so quite hefty

Less than the EC. Fishy.

Thoughts on this? Why is EC a larger file than Leviathan?

Leviathan is 3.12 GB unpacked according to the resident data-mining king on Hold The Line.

Still waiting for the full rundown on the contents.

I see. Speaking of the content of DLCs, I find it very strange that a lot of the leaked lines for Levy from EC are not in Levy. Thoughts?

[legaldinho]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

Time to prompt my betters to do some speculating/ investigating/ picturing/ youtubing.

Subject: The red poppy that features in Leviathan.

Motive: This poppy is everywhere on the citadel. I think it appears elsewhere too, i think. It features everywhere in Dr Bryson's lab's balcony.

Support: It looks a bit like the scarren flower in Farscape. We know how far the sci fi influence net is cast in Mass Effect's case.

Relevance of Leviathan: When chasing Garneaux, you enter the research lab or something. This is where you pick up lots of conversations/ datapads. One of these datapads is next to a bunch of these red flowers. It says something like "though common, this strand is extremely dangerous". With the recap of indoctrination-creatures including the thorian and its "spores", as well as emphasis on the organic nature of the Leviathan's indoctrination means, I say this warrans some monocle popping speculation.

Interesting...

Banshee get going man. This speculating stuff's not for thirty year olds.

Finally, found a vid that does some semi-thorough investigating.



At 07:12.

Datapad says:

"NOTE TO STAFF:
This new crossbreed appears harmless and would be inconspicuous in an
office environment. However, it is exceedingly dangerous. Use extreme
caution when working with all third-generation plants."

This guy's shep is jittery as ****, but anyway, you can see the plant is in Dr Bryson's office, inside at 00.16 and outside at 4:14



Pretty sure these flowers are also in Councillor Udina's office... and many places besides. Wondered about them before- but only because I'm such a Farscape fan.

[The Twilight God]

RavenEyry wrote...

There are many reasons why I disagree with refuse being the 'right' choice. Arian did a really good rant about how it doesn't work in IT, but there is also the simple real life fact that it was added in EC, which wasn't (probably) planned from the start.

Refuse flat out PROVES an indoctrination attempt is taking place. Without a shadow of a doubt.

[jgibson14352]

i just started another playthrough and i swear i saw the plant in the dreams.
huge chance that these were always there also, but whatever

[demersel]

TheConstantOne wrote...
***snip**

But now, after Leviathan DLC,  in destroy - Leviathans decide the fate of the galaxy, since there is no one left to oppose them. That's the literal interpretation.  No win scenario. 

[BansheeOwnage]

legaldinho wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

Time to prompt my betters to do some speculating/ investigating/ picturing/ youtubing.

Subject: The red poppy that features in Leviathan.

Motive: This poppy is everywhere on the citadel. I think it appears elsewhere too, i think. It features everywhere in Dr Bryson's lab's balcony.

Support: It looks a bit like the scarren flower in Farscape. We know how far the sci fi influence net is cast in Mass Effect's case.

Relevance of Leviathan: When chasing Garneaux, you enter the research lab or something. This is where you pick up lots of conversations/ datapads. One of these datapads is next to a bunch of these red flowers. It says something like "though common, this strand is extremely dangerous". With the recap of indoctrination-creatures including the thorian and its "spores", as well as emphasis on the organic nature of the Leviathan's indoctrination means, I say this warrans some monocle popping speculation.

Interesting...

Banshee get going man. This speculating stuff's not for thirty year olds.

Okay. My speculation: The plants are a type of indoctrination tool using spores it disperses around its environment similar to the thorian. Also, it seems like it would be Leviathan indoctrination as they controlled the facility for 10 years. Crazy speculation: Maybe that's why nothing gets done on the citadel; the reaper indoctrination on the citadel (it's reaper tech) is at a stalemate with the Leviathan indoctrination.

[demersel]

The Twilight God wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

There are many reasons why I disagree with refuse being the 'right' choice. Arian did a really good rant about how it doesn't work in IT, but there is also the simple real life fact that it was added in EC, which wasn't (probably) planned from the start.

Refuse flat out PROVES an indoctrination attempt is taking place. Without a shadow of a doubt.

So, you agree, that now , the only question remains, whether this all happens for real, or is everything taking place in a dream? 

[paxxton]

demersel wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...
***snip**

But now, after Leviathan DLC,  in destroy - Leviathans decide the fate of the galaxy, since there is no one left to oppose them. That's the literal interpretation.  No win scenario. 

Interesting. That's why Control is the best. You stand a chance against them.

[legaldinho]

Nuke their planet, every which way. Drive an asteroid or twenty into them. Crash one into the nearest relay. Problem solved.

LETS TALK ABOUT THE POPPIES NOW PLS TA

[BansheeOwnage]

Norlond wrote...

I did it... <_<

Don't click if you haven't played Levi yet

That's kind of funny.

[demersel]

BansheeOwnage wrote...
indoctrination on the citadel (it's reaper tech) is at a stalemate with the Leviathan indoctrination.

No. The facility was under control of the leviathan for ten years. Nothing ever get's done on the citadel. Doesn't fit. 

Though there can be a stalemate situation, just like in the bryson's office, but on the bigger scale, and for some other reason than the red poppy. 

[paxxton]

legaldinho wrote...

Nuke their planet, every which way. Drive an asteroid or twenty into them. Crash one into the nearest relay. Problem solved.

LETS TALK ABOUT THE POPPIES NOW PLS TA

And collect millions of spherical artifacts with which they control everybody in the Galaxy.

[BansheeOwnage]

mrs.N7 wrote...

My only problem with all of this is a major one: WE ALREADY KNOW HOW IT'LL END. And to make the thing worse, we aren't given the possibility to change a bit the end, even if we play the DLCs. Leviathan felt like a cut part of the game, not like LOTSB and Overlord, which were optional annd didn't relate to ME2 plot: stop the collectors.

I think it was a cut part of the game.  Like EC.
I'm gonna go eat lunch, be back after.
Was it a cut part of the game or not?
DISCUSS!

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 29 août 2012 - 07:56 .

[legaldinho]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

Time to prompt my betters to do some speculating/ investigating/ picturing/ youtubing.

Subject: The red poppy that features in Leviathan.

Motive: This poppy is everywhere on the citadel. I think it appears elsewhere too, i think. It features everywhere in Dr Bryson's lab's balcony.

Support: It looks a bit like the scarren flower in Farscape. We know how far the sci fi influence net is cast in Mass Effect's case.

Relevance of Leviathan: When chasing Garneaux, you enter the research lab or something. This is where you pick up lots of conversations/ datapads. One of these datapads is next to a bunch of these red flowers. It says something like "though common, this strand is extremely dangerous". With the recap of indoctrination-creatures including the thorian and its "spores", as well as emphasis on the organic nature of the Leviathan's indoctrination means, I say this warrans some monocle popping speculation.

Interesting...

Banshee get going man. This speculating stuff's not for thirty year olds.

Okay. My speculation: The plants are a type of indoctrination tool using spores it disperses around its environment similar to the thorian. Also, it seems like it would be Leviathan indoctrination as they controlled the facility for 10 years. Crazy speculation: Maybe that's why nothing gets done on the citadel; the reaper indoctrination on the citadel (it's reaper tech) is at a stalemate with the Leviathan indoctrination.

Mmm I hadn't thought of that. Why are the flowers studied by Leviathan? Is it because they're his tool, or someone else's?

I think Bioware just threw us anoth speculation curve ball. The ******. I am 100% sure these flowers are all over the place. And Bioware knew about that before they gave us this datapad. So it's hardly simple asset reuse.

[Rifneno]

RavenEyry wrote...

On the inside yeah. The choice-o-matic is on the outside.

Ha! Choice-o-matic.

[legaldinho]

paxxton wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

Nuke their planet, every which way. Drive an asteroid or twenty into them. Crash one into the nearest relay. Problem solved.

LETS TALK ABOUT THE POPPIES NOW PLS TA

And collect millions of spherical artifacts with which they control everybody in the Galaxy.

The artifacts can get tae when the leviathans are extinct, paxx.

[RavenEyry]

demersel wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...
indoctrination on the citadel (it's reaper tech) is at a stalemate with the Leviathan indoctrination.

No. The facility was under control of the leviathan for ten years. Nothing ever get's done on the citadel. Doesn't fit. 

Though there can be a stalemate situation, just like in the bryson's office, but on the bigger scale, and for some other reason than the red poppy. 

I don't think the citadel full scale indocs but it definately does something. Several times it's noted how calm everyone seems and I also noticed the council seem to agree about the reapers at the end of one but then hang around on the citadel for a few months and decide they're no threat after all.

[BansheeOwnage]

Rifneno wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

On the inside yeah. The choice-o-matic is on the outside.

Ha! Choice-o-matic.

I know! I laughed at that and put it in my word doc that has 17000 words of awesome said by many people about IT. Also, I give you my permission to be the House of IT.