80611 réponses à ce sujet

[RavenEyry]

The Twilight God wrote...

You said that the contraption makes no sense. However, it makes perfect sense; which is covered in my thesis. You say you've read it, but why then are you completely ignoring the points made in the thesis?

Oh. It's a case of anyone whose read my stuff must agree with it because I'm always right. I'm gonna stop reading your posts now.

[TheConstantOne]

SwobyJ wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...
***snip**

But now, after Leviathan DLC,  in destroy - Leviathans decide the fate of the galaxy, since there is no one left to oppose them. That's the literal interpretation.  No win scenario. 

Interesting. That's why Control is the best. You stand a chance against them.

No control is bad cause the reapers are still around. And they are not controlled centrally. each single piece of every single reaper has the power to indoctrinate, even without direct control and intervention of the reaper. So there cannot possibly be a way of controlling all the reapers at once, especially by merging with them. They'll just assimilate you and move on. They are just random independed agents unified by single purpose. 

That and the Levys still have the ability to kill them. So once again, Synthesis is the best option that bioware manufactured, since everyone is the apex race.

It may be that Bioware even wants us to see it in two ways. Synthesis is the most overtly positive ending, but also the most sinister.

We feel the peace that those in Reaper indoctrination feel, but also the dread of their presence.

I'm inclined to think this is likely.  As I said earlier, I'm inclined to thing that if you interpret the ending literally, Shepard is choosing what force leads the galaxy for the "next solution."

The AI directs the galaxy in Synthesis and, while peace is achieved, we don't know if it truly gives us any kind of freedom or flexibility in how we choose to utilize our new augmentations.  Given that the AI was created by the control obsessed apex race, the Leviathans, and that the Leviathans and Illusive Man both noted that the AI/Reapers are trying to control life/evolution, I'm inclined to think that Synthesis brings about peace at a cost not many would be willing to pay.  Sure, you save EDI and the geth, but at the cost of Shepard and more importantly, the freedom of the entire galaxy. That bolded part is not definite but I do not want to take that chance.

I understand the need for effective and decisive leadership but absolute control of individual down to how their genetics will function is going a little bit overboard, if you ask me 

[paxxton]

TheConstantOne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...
***snip**

But now, after Leviathan DLC,  in destroy - Leviathans decide the fate of the galaxy, since there is no one left to oppose them. That's the literal interpretation.  No win scenario. 

Interesting. That's why Control is the best. You stand a chance against them.

No control is bad cause the reapers are still around. And they are not controlled centrally. each single piece of every single reaper has the power to indoctrinate, even without direct control and intervention of the reaper. So there cannot possibly be a way of controlling all the reapers at once, especially by merging with them. They'll just assimilate you and move on. They are just random independed agents unified by single purpose. 

But there is. Shepard the Catalyst has that power.

The Shepard-AI might not be assimilated by the Reapers, per se, but he is likely assimilated with the AI (assuming that the AI isn't Harbinger). As a result, he has the AI's directive (protect life) but is guided by Shepard's ideals. The Reapers would be stand alone beings but the parameters of their AI shackles would change.  However, if peace is severely threatened, the Shepard AI could choose to start reaping again.

I understand your reasons for supporting control paxxton but I'm siding with demersel on this one. I think that, in literal Control, the Reapers are still too dangerous to allow to exist, especially since their concept of life is...not exactly the same as our's

But if life's existence was ever threatened the harvest would end up being the only solution proving that the cycle cannot be broken as it's an inherent property of progress.

[TheConstantOne]

SwobyJ wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

demersel wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...
***snip**

But now, after Leviathan DLC,  in destroy - Leviathans decide the fate of the galaxy, since there is no one left to oppose them. That's the literal interpretation.  No win scenario. 

The Leviathans are being set up as a future enemy for another Mass Effect game, I think.  And again, this holds in either view of the ending.

Isn't wonderful to know that, whatever viewpoint fans hold, we could very well end up in the same place? haha

Yep, just like the Paragon and Renegade debates.

I'm getting the feeling that the entire Mass Effect series is some grand psychological experiment.

Ahahaha I second this

[spotlessvoid]

Rifneno wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

As an engineer, I would require actual proof, not conjecture.

As an astronaut-cowboy-millionaire, I'm not sure why you feel the need to inform us of your poor reasoning skills.

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 29 août 2012 - 08:24 .

[TheConstantOne]

paxxton wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...
***snip**

But now, after Leviathan DLC,  in destroy - Leviathans decide the fate of the galaxy, since there is no one left to oppose them. That's the literal interpretation.  No win scenario. 

Interesting. That's why Control is the best. You stand a chance against them.

No control is bad cause the reapers are still around. And they are not controlled centrally. each single piece of every single reaper has the power to indoctrinate, even without direct control and intervention of the reaper. So there cannot possibly be a way of controlling all the reapers at once, especially by merging with them. They'll just assimilate you and move on. They are just random independed agents unified by single purpose. 

But there is. Shepard the Catalyst has that power.

The Shepard-AI might not be assimilated by the Reapers, per se, but he is likely assimilated with the AI (assuming that the AI isn't Harbinger). As a result, he has the AI's directive (protect life) but is guided by Shepard's ideals. The Reapers would be stand alone beings but the parameters of their AI shackles would change.  However, if peace is severely threatened, the Shepard AI could choose to start reaping again.

I understand your reasons for supporting control paxxton but I'm siding with demersel on this one. I think that, in literal Control, the Reapers are still too dangerous to allow to exist, especially since their concept of life is...not exactly the same as our's

But if life's existence was ever threatened the harvest would end up being the only solution proving that the cycle cannot be broken as it's an inherent property of progress.

paxxton, listen to yourself! You're indoctrinated 

[EpyonX3]

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...
But there is. Shepard the Catalyst has that power.

Says who? :happy:

I say so. Period.

Okey dokey - enjoy your talks with the huskhead. 

He is the new Catalyst. Listen to what he says.

[paxxton]

TheConstantOne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...
***snip**

But now, after Leviathan DLC,  in destroy - Leviathans decide the fate of the galaxy, since there is no one left to oppose them. That's the literal interpretation.  No win scenario. 

Interesting. That's why Control is the best. You stand a chance against them.

No control is bad cause the reapers are still around. And they are not controlled centrally. each single piece of every single reaper has the power to indoctrinate, even without direct control and intervention of the reaper. So there cannot possibly be a way of controlling all the reapers at once, especially by merging with them. They'll just assimilate you and move on. They are just random independed agents unified by single purpose. 

But there is. Shepard the Catalyst has that power.

The Shepard-AI might not be assimilated by the Reapers, per se, but he is likely assimilated with the AI (assuming that the AI isn't Harbinger). As a result, he has the AI's directive (protect life) but is guided by Shepard's ideals. The Reapers would be stand alone beings but the parameters of their AI shackles would change.  However, if peace is severely threatened, the Shepard AI could choose to start reaping again.

I understand your reasons for supporting control paxxton but I'm siding with demersel on this one. I think that, in literal Control, the Reapers are still too dangerous to allow to exist, especially since their concept of life is...not exactly the same as our's

But if life's existence was ever threatened the harvest would end up being the only solution proving that the cycle cannot be broken as it's an inherent property of progress.

paxxton, listen to yourself! You're indoctrinated 

It's those artifacts.

[paxxton]

EpyonX3 wrote...

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...
But there is. Shepard the Catalyst has that power.

Says who? :happy:

I say so. Period.

Okey dokey - enjoy your talks with the huskhead. 

He is the new Catalyst. Listen to what he says.

I even started glowing with blue light after completeing Leviathan DLC.

Modifié par paxxton, 29 août 2012 - 08:31 .

[The Twilight God]

demersel wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

There are many reasons why I disagree with refuse being the 'right' choice. Arian did a really good rant about how it doesn't work in IT, but there is also the simple real life fact that it was added in EC, which wasn't (probably) planned from the start.

Refuse flat out PROVES an indoctrination attempt is taking place. Without a shadow of a doubt.

So, you agree, that now , the only question remains, whether this all happens for real, or is everything taking place in a dream? 

There is no question as there is no reason whatsoever for me to believe it is a dream. I thought I made it clear in my last post.

TTG wrote...
By no means would I say it cannot be a dream. If they announced that ME4 would pick up where the breath scene leaves and let's say the actual Crucible turned into a Matrix Architect scenario I wouldn't be mad at all. Shepard becomes The One and he's given even worst choices and refuse is the only way to go. Then the war rages on. To some degree it would be good that there isn't any concrete evidence. If you're dreaming, can you fathom that you are dreaming? If the intent to for the player to experience what Shepard experiences they cannot leave any hard evidence.

Still, the possibility will not convince me of a reality; Only ME4.

A dream is the ultimate handwave in a work of fiction. It can never be proven or disproven. However, that doesn't mean it is true simply because it can't be disproven. Like an invisible, massless, quasi-dimensional, etheral spaghetti monster flying around the Earth can't be disproven.
 
Dream Theory requires blind faith. I'm just not a blind faith kind of guy.

[demersel]

Codename_Code wrote...

All the people claiming the leviathans are as dangeorus as the reapers. The leviathans are organics beings with no lasers, and no mechanical armors, also, very little group of them now. Dangerous in some way, but they look fragile if attacked by a fleet.

My question is, how the intelligence created the first reapers without having any reapers to harvest violently : /

indoctrinated all lesser organics to turn on the leviathans? 

[demersel]

 And while we're on the subjetc of red poppy - here's the picture of them, made in 1907 in Russia 
by Sergey Prokudin-Gorsky

[The Twilight God]

OdanUrr wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

There are many reasons why I disagree with refuse being the 'right' choice. Arian did a really good rant about how it doesn't work in IT, but there is also the simple real life fact that it was added in EC, which wasn't (probably) planned from the start.

Refuse flat out PROVES an indoctrination attempt is taking place. Without a shadow of a doubt.

As an engineer, I would require actual proof, not conjecture.

It isn't conjecture. But feel free to throw whatever words around make you feel better about betraying the entire galaxy.

[TheConstantOne]

SwobyJ wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

demersel wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...
***snip**

But now, after Leviathan DLC,  in destroy - Leviathans decide the fate of the galaxy, since there is no one left to oppose them. That's the literal interpretation.  No win scenario. 

The Leviathans are being set up as a future enemy for another Mass Effect game, I think.  And again, this holds in either view of the ending.

Isn't wonderful to know that, whatever viewpoint fans hold, we could very well end up in the same place? haha

Yep, just like the Paragon and Renegade debates.

I'm getting the feeling that the entire Mass Effect series is some grand psychological experiment.

Ahahaha I second this

By the way, Mac Walters is a Psych grad.

:whistle:

I would laugh if the Leviathans or some other super threat challenges the Milky Way and the only way we can fight is...by using Reapers.  If we picked Destroy, then we analyze their remains and build new ones.

Somewhere, the ghost of ghostly Starkid would be whispering: "The chaos is returning"

[TheConstantOne]

SwobyJ wrote...

I love how people are actually thinking StarChildCatalyst is the AI that Leviathan talks about.

It's Harbinger. I'm sure of it now.

We'll fight Harbinger. Either in certain DLC, or in a planned expansion to Mass Effect 3.

Fans are really clamoring for a Harbinger fight of some kind.  Makes me think we will get one eventually.  If it should happen to come involved in an Indoctrination post ending DLC, then all the better

Edit: Actually, I can't really say fans are clamoring for it.  I don't really have solid proof of that haha

Modifié par TheConstantOne, 29 août 2012 - 08:40 .

[spotlessvoid]

Twilight God ....

A dream can never be proven? How about after you wake up?

Dream Theory requires blind faith? Totally not condescending

[The Twilight God]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Isn't there only 3 Leviathans left? How are they going to rule the galaxy?

There are three that you see. Before you saw the other two you would have assumed there was one.

Obviously there aren't enough to challenge the Reapers, but that doesn't mean there aren't enough to challeneg the "lesser races". I'm actually coming to believe that the Leviathans designed the Crucible as a double edged sword.

1. The relays are destroyed so the "lesser races" are cut off - The Leviathans didn't use relays. They presumably have a more Star Wars like FTL capability.
2. No organic race can challeneg them head on - There powers of indoctrination are instantaneous and far superior to the Reapers indoctrination.
3. It destroys all synthetic life - they can't control synthetics so that complication is eliminated

Modifié par The Twilight God, 29 août 2012 - 09:06 .

[spotlessvoid]

SwobyJ wrote...

I love how people are actually thinking StarChildCatalyst is the AI that Leviathan talks about.

It's Harbinger. I'm sure of it now.

We'll fight Harbinger. Either in certain DLC, or in a planned expansion to Mass Effect 3.

Didn't Leviathan say they created the AI, who then created an army of pawns from the galactic civilizations and then turned them on the Leviathans, harvesting them into the first reaper- Harbinger...?

[Arashi08]

Are we seriously fighting over which IT theory is better again? As if we didn't have enough unnecessarily angry arguing from the literalists that keep coming here and doing that?

IT is crumbling from within...

[BansheeOwnage]

CrusaderIII wrote...

 Mass Effect Fans, I have made this message in the hope
of getting it to BioWare, but I can’t do that without you! Copy and paste this
message, send it to their Facebook accounts, to their Twitter accounts, post it
on forums and on YouTube video’s! We must stand together to make BioWare
understand that we, the Fans who have supported them throughout the Years
deserve a better Ending! BioWare deserves a better Ending!


BioWare Staff, you may have
noticed the rumors that are spreading through the Internet. They say that you
have failed to bring Mass Effect to a Good End. They say that you have failed
the Fans and yourselves. They even say that you have thrown away your principles
in exchange for money.

At first I strongly disagreed. I played Mass Effect 3, not paying attention to
the rumors and finally I got to the End. True, the Game itself was very well
done, but the End did not make sense to me. So I went to seek answers on the
Internet, now paying attention to the rumors. There were fans who didn’t like
the Ending but didn’t care too much. ‘A bitter sweet Ending,’ they said. And
others said plainly that it was rubbish. But the last group of Fans truly caught
my attention. They said that the Ending shouldn’t be interpreted so literally.
They described what is known now as ‘The Indoctrination Theory’. The more I
read about it and the more videos I saw, the more convinced I became. Finally
the Ending seemed to make sense! The only drawback was that we weren’t really
sure about it. After all, You hadn’t confirmed or disproven it.

And then came the message about the Extended Cut DLC. It would clarify the
Ending. Yet it didn’t. Sure, it gave more information about what happened after
each different choice of Ending, but again, it didn’t disprove the
Indoctrination Theory. The Ending still didn’t make sense.

The Indoctrination Theory states that, throughout the games, the Reapers have
tried to Indoctrinate Shepard. Harbingers famous quote: ‘Your mind will be
ours!’ Only feeds the Theory. And then there were the Dream sequences in Mass
Effect 3. These are explained as Indoctrination attempts. But the real part
only starts at the Ending. When Shepard gets hit by the Laser a white light
takes over the screen. Why white? It was a red Laser. And the same light is
used moments later when the platform rises to meet the StarChild. The
Indoctrination Theory states that everything that happens after getting hit by
the Laser is actually happening in Shepard’s head. Even the confrontation between
Anderson and the Illusive Man is explained as being a fight between the Indoctrination
and Shepard’s subconscious. And most of you will know what it says after that.
If not, you can easily look it up.

So BioWare, now my question is: Why do you not use this Ending? It would make a
fat better Ending than what we have now, and you don’t even have the change any
of the existing facts, The Indoctrination Theory fits in perfectly!

In one of the Documentary’s I have seen, someone describes the Ending after
Shepard makes his choice and he did it in less than two minutes. He even said
that the dark matter problem could still be involved in the Ending. So why was
he able to make a better Ending on his own in less than two minutes when you
have an entire writing team and more than two years to make it? BioWare, we
aren’t mad at you, we are simply disappointed.

Please BioWare, we deserve a better Ending. You deserve a better Ending. Adopt
the Theory and make it happen!

Wake Up Shepard! Wake Up BioWare!

While I'm not at all a fan of copy/pasting things to get attention for a cause, I have to say I agree with this 100%. Who's with me?

[plfranke]

Arashi08 wrote...

Are we seriously fighting over which IT theory is better again? As if we didn't have enough unnecessarily angry arguing from the literalists that keep coming here and doing that?

IT is crumbling from within...

"Why wasn't the Indoctrination Theory completed in this cycle?"
"A faction of separatists argued that their 'thesis' (lol please) was better than our original theory. We later found out those separitists were indoctrinated."