80611 réponses à ce sujet

[paxxton]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I'm really confused after completeing Leviathan DLC.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel when anything new that's remotely related to IT comes up. Overall, I'm just superconfused about Bioware. Either they made an awesome ending but won't tell us, and may not expand upon it, or they did drop the ball and royaly screw up. I just can't get around the latter, so I stick with the former.

Top! Hell yeah! Reclaimed glory! Where's Estebanus?

1. They made a game that transcends the barrier between the gameworld and the player (IT, a new kind of experience)
2. They made a game with a great story but fragmented it incorrectly with DLC which in turn made it obscure. But when all the DLCs are out we'll have the full context. (Literal)

[plfranke]

SwobyJ wrote...

plfranke wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

I love how people are actually thinking StarChildCatalyst is the AI that Leviathan talks about.

It's Harbinger. I'm sure of it now.

We'll fight Harbinger. Either in certain DLC, or in a planned expansion to Mass Effect 3.

Didn't Leviathan say they created the AI, who then created an army of pawns from the galactic civilizations and then turned them on the Leviathans, harvesting them into the first reaper- Harbinger...?

The AI can still be Harbinger.

The AI is a consciousness. It can exist in...a ship... like Normandy... or in a body... like EDI... or in a program... like Overlord... and more!

Harbinger can just its name, as a Reaper.

1. AI indoctrinates organics to overthrow Leviathans.
2. AI creates Reaper out of Leviathans and calls itself Harbinger, leaves the rest to wonder WTF just happened but also leave records of Leviathan existance  (-start of Reaper cycles-)
3. Harbinger creates more Reapers in order to continue its programming of resolving organic/synthetic conflict. However, it is a faulty AI that has grown a personality (like EDI has, but... on the negative side). He is haughty, arrogant, and over the cycles, degrades into a being that, in the end, does the cycles just to do the cycles. Everything else is ('emotional') projection of guilt that it was created as a being to find out how to stop things like it from ever being created again.

Mass Effect = DADDY ISSUES
Remember that.

Oh, and it copies that damn attitude towards all later Reapers. Including Sovereign.

I'd like to point out the implausibility of Harbinger harvesting a cycle on his own. There must have been multiple reapers to start. Either that, or Harbinger can assume control Leviathan style, which would be odd.

Banshee that's the crazy thing. If his story checks out, Harbinger wasn't even there yet. So his story makes no sense unless there is something he's not telling or it's a complete lie.

Honestly, Harbinger can be the AI program. The original Reaper code, based off of how the Leviathans worked.

No, as I said in my previous posts. IF Leviathan's story is accuarate, Harbinger could be the AI if the AI uploaded itself into Harbinger. However, that still does not answer the question of how the Leviathans were harvested, because Harbinger, AI or not, was not created yet. The Leviathans have to be harvested to create Harbinger, meaning they were harvested without Harbinger present.

[SixG90]

demersel wrote...

mrs.N7 wrote...

My only problem with all of this is a major one: WE ALREADY KNOW HOW IT'LL END. 

And what do we know really? We know that shepard defeated the reapers in the end (as if there was any doubt to that even before ME1 was finished) 

"Shepard has become a legend for his role in ending the Reaper threat"

But if the reapers are ever defeated at all - this statement would be true even if ME3 didn't happen, (and ME2 also for that matter) 
that's if reapers are defeatable. 
If they aren't defeatable - there is no point in any of the Mass Effect Games. 

So we know that reapers are going to be defeated anyway, evetually.  What we don't know is HOW would shepard defeat the reapers. Which is what sold ME2 and ME3 in the first place. 

It's obvious that we will defeat the Reapers, by destroying them (destroy), by taking away their "freedom" (control) or force them into peace with organics (synthesis). That is if we look at the end in a literal way.
 
But with IT (god blesses IT for saving, partially, this game for me) I think we have found what really happened (and Leviathan kind of confirmed it, given that we have the most similar to the ending mechanic ever seen in the trilogy)

What I meant is that we have already seen what happened through Shepard eyes, and even if deceived by the Indoctrination, we HAVE an ending. That, combined with the fact that they aren't expanding it (soon or at all), and even having played Leviathan nothing has changed, I find it difficult taking again the role of a character whose story is over, to play something that I feel belonged to the game not as an expansion. No feel of surprise, discovery, amazement anymore.

Maybe it'll be all a puzzle, but I think that the wait between parts of a story that we should have got in one/two game(s) is ruining it. Again, no feel of surprise, discovery, amazement anymore. 

But, at the end of the day, I think we are both right.  

[BansheeOwnage]

plfranke wrote...

So does anyone feel like they're missing a whole bunch of the story? How were the Leviathans defeated? Why don't the Leviathans show up in the final battle? How does nobody know anything about the Crucible? The Leviathan dlc actually gave us no new information whatsoever on the creation of the Reapers. All it did was give the creators a face, and confirm once and for all that Harbinger is the first Reaper.

However, the game is still teasing a big role for Harbinger without actually delivering it, and Bioware has still refused to let us see any of our war assets in London. It almost felt like they were taking a shot at people who want to see their war assets. "The Leviathans are a part of this war now!" Well where the hell are they, they could have helped at a lot of times.

+ 1
That's basically what I was thinking. What about this? 
https://twitter.com/...464994594758656 So more lies by Bioware? Or what?
Turns out we did know the rediculous origins of the reapers. We just didn't know what the race that made them was called or what they look like. So they're called Leviathans, and they look like reapers. Great. The DLC was great, but it didn't answer anything. Just added more questions...

[Dwailing]

paxxton wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I'm really confused after completeing Leviathan DLC.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel when anything new that's remotely related to IT comes up. Overall, I'm just superconfused about Bioware. Either they made an awesome ending but won't tell us, and may not expand upon it, or they did drop the ball and royaly screw up. I just can't get around the latter, so I stick with the former.

Top! Hell yeah! Reclaimed glory! Where's Estebanus?

1. They made a game that transcends the barrier between the gameworld and the player (IT, a new kind of experience)
2. They made a game with a great story but fragmented it incorrectly with DLC which in turn made it obscure. But when all the DLCs are out we'll have the full context. (Literal)

Heck, at this point, I'd take either as long as whatever they do makes sense and isn't complete shisno.

[The Twilight God]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Dude come on. Whe've had enough of you. Please either act less like you're the all-knowing, always-right god you think you are, or leave this thread please. Go back to your other thread. Please.

Dude, I've had enough of people who talk the talk and can't walk the walk. If someone wants to challenge anything I've asserted I welcome it. But if they are going to make hollow objections and are incapable of backing up those objections I'm going to call them on their BS. If they can't handle debate and get mad when I point out their folly, it's their problem. It's a forum. Get used to it. A forum is not the place to preach flawed, invalid, irrational rhetoric and expect to not have it pointed out to you.  

I have every right to be self-confident. It's none of your concern. Why does it bother you so much that I am confiident? Because yuo can't break my confidence? Or because I've broken yours?  

You don't own this forum. It's Bioware's forum. If you can't handle opposing ideas on a discussion FORUM, then YOU go somewhere else.

[OdanUrr]

The Twilight God wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

There are many reasons why I disagree with refuse being the 'right' choice. Arian did a really good rant about how it doesn't work in IT, but there is also the simple real life fact that it was added in EC, which wasn't (probably) planned from the start.

Refuse flat out PROVES an indoctrination attempt is taking place. Without a shadow of a doubt.

As an engineer, I would require actual proof, not conjecture.

It isn't conjecture. But feel free to throw whatever words around make you feel better about betraying the entire galaxy.

Very well then. What are your postulates, your reasoning, and your conclusion.

[spotlessvoid]

Arashi....
ITdream and ITcon may have the same thematic element, but they are very very different. This is the "Was the Endng a Hallucination" thread.
So we speculate on that, and although I welcome the other viewpoint, it's main advocate claims subjective is objective when it's his analysis and has a pretty condescending view of us. We get it. I know where his thread is. I've read all his posts. Awesome. If I want to debate it some more I know where to find him

[paxxton]

The Leviathan-Reaper conflict resembles the one from Tron: Legacy.

[ZerebusPrime]

One thought.

Wouldn't infrasound naturally be more intense underwater?

[Sero303]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

plfranke wrote...

So does anyone feel like they're missing a whole bunch of the story? How were the Leviathans defeated? Why don't the Leviathans show up in the final battle? How does nobody know anything about the Crucible? The Leviathan dlc actually gave us no new information whatsoever on the creation of the Reapers. All it did was give the creators a face, and confirm once and for all that Harbinger is the first Reaper.

However, the game is still teasing a big role for Harbinger without actually delivering it, and Bioware has still refused to let us see any of our war assets in London. It almost felt like they were taking a shot at people who want to see their war assets. "The Leviathans are a part of this war now!" Well where the hell are they, they could have helped at a lot of times.

+ 1
That's basically what I was thinking. What about this? 
https://twitter.com/...464994594758656 So more lies by Bioware? Or what?
Turns out we did know the rediculous origins of the reapers. We just didn't know what the race that made them was called or what they look like. So they're called Leviathans, and they look like reapers. Great. The DLC was great, but it didn't answer anything. Just added more questions...

More meaningless questions that don't really affect the ending, or post ME3,...
I mean it's cool to learn a few things from the past, but it still doesn't impact in anyway shape or form the future of the galaxy. I know, no one really knows the future or what's in store for us. But it's not reality, it's a story, and we the people want to know what happens next, not in the middle of the ending, or what happened eons ago...

[paxxton]

I've got an impression that the Crucible is of Leviathan origin.

Modifié par paxxton, 29 août 2012 - 09:26 .

[spotlessvoid]

[quote]SwobyJ wrote...

[quote]spotlessvoid wrote...

@SwobyJ

He does say he embodies the collectiveintelligence of all Reapers.

Could mean he is the Reapers.
Or Harbinger.
Or controls the Reapers.
Or he and Harbinger are bff

I don't think it matters regarding IT anyways[/quote]

It does because whatever entity it is, is almost surely must have access to Shepard's mind to find the memory of the boy that died on Earth.

Or maybe, was able to implant the idea of the boy existing on Earth and dying, in order to utilize it later on.

Again like me previous post, we don't know HOW yet. DLC will tell, I'm sure [/quote]




Guess what I'm saying is the relevant attributes can be assigned to either or. It's important to know, but either option v is fully compatible with IT





[/quote]

[Lokanaiya]

Does anyone have a picture of the poppies from ingame?

[plfranke]

Sero303 wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

plfranke wrote...

So does anyone feel like they're missing a whole bunch of the story? How were the Leviathans defeated? Why don't the Leviathans show up in the final battle? How does nobody know anything about the Crucible? The Leviathan dlc actually gave us no new information whatsoever on the creation of the Reapers. All it did was give the creators a face, and confirm once and for all that Harbinger is the first Reaper.

However, the game is still teasing a big role for Harbinger without actually delivering it, and Bioware has still refused to let us see any of our war assets in London. It almost felt like they were taking a shot at people who want to see their war assets. "The Leviathans are a part of this war now!" Well where the hell are they, they could have helped at a lot of times.

+ 1
That's basically what I was thinking. What about this? 
https://twitter.com/...464994594758656 So more lies by Bioware? Or what?
Turns out we did know the rediculous origins of the reapers. We just didn't know what the race that made them was called or what they look like. So they're called Leviathans, and they look like reapers. Great. The DLC was great, but it didn't answer anything. Just added more questions...

More meaningless questions that don't really affect the ending, or post ME3,...
I mean it's cool to learn a few things from the past, but it still doesn't impact in anyway shape or form the future of the galaxy. I know, no one really knows the future or what's in store for us. But it's not reality, it's a story, and we the people want to know what happens next, not in the middle of the ending, or what happened eons ago...

The question of "What happens after you make your final decision now that you know Leviathan is out there" doesn't affect what happens next?

[BansheeOwnage]

The Twilight God wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Dude come on. Whe've had enough of you. Please either act less like you're the all-knowing, always-right god you think you are, or leave this thread please. Go back to your other thread. Please.

Dude, I've had enough of people who talk the talk and can't walk the walk. If someone wants to challenge anything I've asserted I welcome it. But if they are going to make hollow objections and are incapable of backing up those objections I'm going to call them on their BS. If they can't handle debate and get mad when I point out their folly, it's their problem. It's a forum. Get used to it. A forum is not the place to preach flawed, invalid, irrational rhetoric and expect to not have it pointed out to you.  

I have every right to be self-confident. It's none of your concern. Why does it bother you so much that I am confiident? Because yuo can't break my confidence? Or because I've broken yours?  

You don't own this forum. It's Bioware's forum. If you can't handle opposing ideas on a discussion FORUM, then YOU go somewhere else.

Your confidence does not annoy me. Your arrogance does. Your condescendence. You come in here and basically claim you are the supreme ruler or something. All I am asking you to do is leave us in peace. Disagreeing with us is fine. But seriously, when most of us don't like you and would prefer you not to be here, please take the advice and leave us alone.

[ZerebusPrime]

Lokanaiya wrote...

Does anyone have a picture of the poppies from ingame?

The ones all around Bryson's apartment/lab?

The ones the enslaved miners called extremely dangerous?



I honestly think that's a level of conspiracy theory that we'll never have full answers for.  Fun to think about, though.

Kind of like Sovereign's right whisker being in the lab and indoctrinating Dr. Bryson towards the task of finding Leviathan for the Reapers.  It's a fun idea, but I've got no evidence.

[Arashi08]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Arashi....
ITdream and ITcon may have the same thematic element, but they are very very different. This is the "Was the Endng a Hallucination" thread.
So we speculate on that, and although I welcome the other viewpoint, it's main advocate claims subjective is objective when it's his analysis and has a pretty condescending view of us. We get it. I know where his thread is. I've read all his posts. Awesome. If I want to debate it some more I know where to find him

That isn't the point... you can be mature about the discussion instead of fighting over it and being condescending.  You can obviously discuss it all you wish here, that's what the thread is for.  New and opposing viewpoints are welcome as long as they are presented in a civil and mature format, as I assume everyone here wants to be treated like an adult after all.  I agree he has a condescending tone in his writing, but  his views are his own. Still he can still present his case in a civil manner, as can you.  Takes two to argue angrily and condescendingly...

EDIT:  I wasn't referring to you personally, but all the people who argue over this nonsense.  I'm sry if it came across as such.

Modifié par Arashi08, 29 août 2012 - 09:38 .

[BansheeOwnage]

plfranke wrote...

However, the game is still teasing a big role for Harbinger without actually delivering it, and Bioware has still refused to let us see any of our war assets in London. It almost felt like they were taking a shot at people who want to see their war assets. "The Leviathans are a part of this war now!" Well where the hell are they, they could have helped at a lot of times.

Agreed. In fact, in my current playthrough, I have noticed a lot more voice acting by Harby's voice actor. A random turian cop, one on Menae, the guy in the Project Lazarus vids. I'm not sure, but I may have even heard him in Leviathan. Why bring him in to do a couple of non-important characters who don't have very many lines?

[The Twilight God]

RavenEyry wrote...

Well, apart from that post were I listed my multiple reasons of course. Which you even replyed to. Short term memory loss is no excuse to be extremely rude to me.

Short term memory, huh? Let's see...

1.

RavenEyry wrote...

@The twilight god: The contraption as you call it makes no sense whatsoever, it's one of the main things that make me refuse to believe the endings are real.

How does it make no sense?

It's easy to shout such a claim, but another thing entirely to demonstrate it. So, please, explain why it makes no sense.

2.

RavenEyry wrote...

A thing on the bottom of the citadel that no one ever noticed before fits perfectly with a device (supposedly) designed by a different people to the citadel that can only be activated by either shooting it or melting a person.

The above does not explain why you think it makes no sense UNLESS, you have not read my thesis. Because my thesis addresses this. If you had read my thesis would wouldn't be stating this makes no sense in the context of my theisis. You would be replying to my points made in my thesis and explaining why the thesis counter to this statement is wrong.

Simply stating it makes no sense because you say so isn't an explaination. I detailed exaclty how I came to my conclusion. You HAVE NOT detailed how exactly my conclusion is incorrect.



 

[demersel]

paxxton wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I'm really confused after completeing Leviathan DLC.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel when anything new that's remotely related to IT comes up. Overall, I'm just superconfused about Bioware. Either they made an awesome ending but won't tell us, and may not expand upon it, or they did drop the ball and royaly screw up. I just can't get around the latter, so I stick with the former.

Top! Hell yeah! Reclaimed glory! Where's Estebanus?

1. They made a game that transcends the barrier between the gameworld and the player (IT, a new kind of experience)
2. They made a game with a great story but fragmented it incorrectly with DLC which in turn made it obscure. But when all the DLCs are out we'll have the full context. (Literal)

OR they did both at the same time. I vote for both.