80611 réponses à ce sujet

[paxxton]

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EDIT: I binged it. I actually don't get it how it'd apply to what we're discussing.

So you really don't see how this is relevant to attempts to reason with big arrogant mind controlling crab, that persieves itself as an apex of life, and considers everything else just tools and toys, and that has a documented history of killing, using or taking control of everything that comes in contact with it, for no other reasen, than because it can?  

It doesn't mean we cannot study something like that to learn its nature. Just take adequete precautions.

And you might try to reason with them until you are confident they aren't interested in cooperation and show hostile attitude.

[demersel]

paxxton wrote...
The first sentence might suggest that in fact the Reapers are saviors of Organics because they save them from being enslaved by the Leviathans. So who's good and who's bad in this conflict now?

It is very easy - we are good - they are bad. 

By we, I mean Humans, Turians, Asari, Volus, Hanar, [Rachni], Dreall, Quarians, Geth, Krogan, Batarians, Yagh, e.t.c. 

By them i mean Reapers and Leviathans. For everything and everybody that we know and love to have a chance to be fine - thay have got to go. 

You know, in real we humans everywhere in every culture, every religion, every nation and race have a rule - if an animal has tasted human blood - this animal must be hunted and killed. This rule is universal, and applies to this day, and forever will. 

Modifié par demersel, 30 août 2012 - 05:09 .

[demersel]

paxxton wrote...

It doesn't mean we cannot study something like that to learn its nature. Just take adequete precautions.

And you might try to reason with them until you are confident they aren't interested in cooperation and show hostile attitude.

And what would be adequete precautions? 

It has already shown that it isn't interested in cooperation, and demonstraded hostile attitude multiple times - that shepard knows of. 

Modifié par demersel, 30 août 2012 - 05:11 .

[paxxton]

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...
The first sentence might suggest that in fact the Reapers are saviors of Organics because they save them from being enslaved by the Leviathans. So who's good and who's bad in this conflict now?

It is very easy - we are good - they are bad. 

By we, I mean Humans, Turians, Asari, Volus, Hanar, [Rachni], Dreall, Quarians, Geth, Krogan, Batarians, Yagh, e.t.c. 

By them i mean Reapers and Leviathans. For everything and everybody that we know and love to have a chance to be fine - thay have got to go. 

You know, in real we humans everywhere in every culture, every religion, every nation and race have a rule - if an animal has tasted human blood - this animal must be hunted and killed. This rule is universal, and applies to this day, and forever will. 

OK. So Organics (and Synthetics for that matter) are the third faction in the war.

[Dwailing]

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EDIT: I binged it. I actually don't get it how it'd apply to what we're discussing.

So you really don't see how this is relevant to attempts to reason with big arrogant mind controlling crab, that persieves itself as an apex of life, and considers everything else just tools and toys, and that has a documented history of killing, using or taking control of everything that comes in contact with it, for no other reasen, than because it can?  

It doesn't mean we cannot study something like that to learn its nature. Just take adequete precautions.

And you might try to reason with them until you are confident they aren't interested in cooperation and show hostile attitude.

It sounds like we already know that the Leviathans aren't interested in cooperation beyond destroying the Reapers.  And we DEFINITELY know they show a hostile attitude.  And "adequate precautions?"  How can you take adequate precautions when dealing with creatures that can kick you out of your own head?  It's like studying Reaper tech that you KNOW is capable of indoctrination.  It's not a smart move.

[paxxton]

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

It doesn't mean we cannot study something like that to learn its nature. Just take adequete precautions.

And you might try to reason with them until you are confident they aren't interested in cooperation and show hostile attitude.

And what would be adequete precautions? 

It has already shown that it isn't interested in cooperation, and demonstraded hostile attitude multiple times - that shepard knows of. 

Maybe the shielding used to isolate the artifact in Bryson's lab. Or use synthetic proxies.

Leviathans might be cunning but they released Shepard and joined the war (never mind the reason). From Shepard's perspective they're allies. From the player's perspective, well, speculations.

Modifié par paxxton, 30 août 2012 - 05:17 .

[demersel]

paxxton wrote...

OK. So Organics (and Synthetics for that matter) are the third faction in the war.

No. It is "lesser" races vs Master Races. 


By making peace between the geth and the quarians we proved - that they are in fact the same race - and even if they weren't before - they are now. 

Same is EDI. Even though she is artificial, she is in essence - Human. 

The reapers and the leviathans - are in fact the same race. 

If you don't take my word for it - read Isaac Asimov's book Bicentanial man. 

Modifié par demersel, 30 août 2012 - 05:22 .

[paxxton]

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

OK. So Organics (and Synthetics for that matter) are the third faction in the war.

No. It is "lesser" races vs Master Races. 

No. It's: Reapers vs Organics, Reapers vs Leviathans, possibly Leviathans vs Organics.

[demersel]

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

OK. So Organics (and Synthetics for that matter) are the third faction in the war.

No. It is "lesser" races vs Master Races. 

No. It's: Reapers vs Organics, Reapers vs Leviathans, possibly Leviathans vs Organics.

Forget about Organics VS Synthetics - its bull****. And the game (the core game at it) clearly proves it. 

[Rifneno]

paxxton wrote...

C'mon. That's just ridiculous. Killing everyone who doesn't adhere to your views isn't a solution. Better to talk with them or study them.

What was it Shepard said to the salarian councilor about the Thorian? "The only reason to study something like that is to figure out how to kill it"?

demersel wrote...

Reapers could just be harvesting the speicies so they won't fall under the influence of leviathans.

They do it before the species becomes to powerfull. But they also give time for it to develop and make so progress. - i day they refine the technology, but constantly reset organics to zero, while keeping the progress made. Given that only the organics can become Leviathans's pawns - and the technology is useless to them. that kind of makes sense - and that makes sense why the leviathans caused rachni wars. rachni tried to destroy council races. And they also don't use any technology.

The reapers want to find a way to find and kill all the leviathans. through technology. but at the same time denying them the thralls to control.

This is an excellent theory. It even explains that derp line "Good, we welcome their involvement" from the 'catalyst'. The only flaw I see is why the Reapers return to dark space and wait for life to evolve again. If this is the case, they should be spending that time combing the galaxy for the Leviathans, not napping.

paxxton wrote...

It doesn't mean we cannot study something like that to learn its nature. Just take adequete precautions.

And you might try to reason with them until you are confident they aren't interested in cooperation and show hostile attitude.

You remind me of the people over the Dragon Age forum who went on about how the rebellions could've been avoided by asking the Chantry nicely to please stop oppressing people.

[paxxton]

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

OK. So Organics (and Synthetics for that matter) are the third faction in the war.

No. It is "lesser" races vs Master Races. 

No. It's: Reapers vs Organics, Reapers vs Leviathans, possibly Leviathans vs Organics.

Forget about Organics VS Synthetics - its bull****. And the game (the core game at it) clearly proves it. 

I didn't include it on the list. Let's say that Organics and Synthetics are in the same faction (I used "Organics" for brevity).

Modifié par paxxton, 30 août 2012 - 05:35 .

[demersel]

Rifneno wrote...

This is an excellent theory. It even explains that derp line "Good, we welcome their involvement" from the 'catalyst'. The only flaw I see is why the Reapers return to dark space and wait for life to evolve again. If this is the case, they should be spending that time combing the galaxy for the Leviathans, not napping.

Maybe that is exactly what they are doing - leaving monitoring stations (shadow broker)  and Sovereign there at their farm (citadel space) - to watch over the cultivation, while they comb every corner the galaxy.  

And the citadel - rememder - it is their "teleport back to the castle" spell, in case anything goes wrong - the shadow broker's ship or sovereign sends the signal - they all instantly come back from whereever they are - ready to fight and interfere. But the protheans - disabled that - and that is why this cycle is different. 

Watch again.  And note how he is much more willing to talk - he communicates willingly, and he doesn't bear any malice towards you. He just explains. Not at all like the leviathan. That thing is positivly evil.  
www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par demersel, 30 août 2012 - 05:40 .

[paxxton]

Rifneno wrote...

*snip*

Open war (or killing in layman's terms) should be the last resort.

Modifié par paxxton, 30 août 2012 - 05:37 .

[RavenEyry]

If there really is a more important background war between reapers and levis (like the aforementioned shadow war), perhaps the harvest is just to get reinforcements.

Modifié par RavenEyry, 30 août 2012 - 05:44 .

[demersel]

 Also note this conversation with harbinger 
Listen to his end game speach again -  Note the use of word "void"

www.youtube.com/watch

"Human. You've changed nothing. Your species has the attention of those who are infinatly greater. That which you know as "Reaper" is your sulvation to destruction. You'll surrender your potentioal against the growing void. We return, and you will rise. "

Modifié par demersel, 30 août 2012 - 05:49 .

[Andromidius]

War is last resort - and in the case of dealing with Reapers and Leviathans, the only resort. The only alternative is 'allow them to dominate us whoever they see fit' - because they won't just leave us be.

Only reason the Leviathans aren't busy conquering the Galaxy is because they fear the Reapers. Though I still can't quite figure out why, considering how easily they blow the crap out of them.

Oh well, maybe we'll get a few more hints before Christmas. Maybe.

[paxxton]

demersel wrote...

 Also note this conversation with harbinger 
Listen to his end game speach again -  Note the use of word "void"

www.youtube.com/watch

A growing void? What does he mean?

[paxxton]

Andromidius wrote...

War is last resort - and in the case of dealing with Reapers and Leviathans, the only resort. The only alternative is 'allow them to dominate us whoever they see fit' - because they won't just leave us be.

Only reason the Leviathans aren't busy conquering the Galaxy is because they fear the Reapers. Though I still can't quite figure out why, considering how easily they blow the crap out of them.

Oh well, maybe we'll get a few more hints before Christmas. Maybe.

I just wanted to say that destroying your enemies is not the best option for winning. //Charlie Sheen's voice

The sheer number of Reapers makes it impossible for 3 Leviathans to defeat all of them. It's not the matter of their abilities.

[legaldinho]

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

 Also note this conversation with harbinger 
Listen to his end game speach again -  Note the use of word "void"

www.youtube.com/watch

A growing void? What does he mean?

It's the dark energy thang. Now it's nothing.

[demersel]

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

 Also note this conversation with harbinger 
Listen to his end game speach again -  Note the use of word "void"

www.youtube.com/watch

A growing void? What does he mean?

If i had to guess and speculate - i would say, that after destruction of the sovereign, disabling of the citadel comeback button, reapers, has no one left at home to oppose the leviathans - who start to gather strengh.  Potential surrendered to void - leviathans gaining control over races of the galaxy (and namely humans), 
But soon they will return and set thing right again. (by kiling everyone, making a reaper out of humans, and reseting the farm)

[paxxton]

legaldinho wrote...

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

 Also note this conversation with harbinger 
Listen to his end game speach again -  Note the use of word "void"

www.youtube.com/watch

A growing void? What does he mean?

It's the dark energy thang. Now it's nothing.

I don't understand.

[demersel]

legaldinho wrote...

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

 Also note this conversation with harbinger 
Listen to his end game speach again -  Note the use of word "void"

www.youtube.com/watch

A growing void? What does he mean?

It's the dark energy thang. Now it's nothing.

Maybe it isn't nothing - the dark energy can still yet come into play.   Leviathans have some connection with eeso. Eezo is connected to the dark energy. 

[MaximizedAction]

In my opinion it makes no sense to introduce the Leviathans as a true enemy, one that is the true evil behind it all, of the trilogy, so late in a DLC -- even the Emperor has been introduced as the even-bigger-bad guy in Empire Strikes Back. The Reapers have been there since day one: the very first mission in the trilogy is because of one of them.

Furthermore, this being done so late in the trilogy, after all we have done, found out and deducted, sounds like the message of the story is "we on our own are unable to find out a bigger picture." and need a nearly god-like species to  tell us. That heavily undermines the human(and organic) mind.

So I think that the Reapers are still the real enemy behind it all.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 30 août 2012 - 05:58 .

[paxxton]

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

 Also note this conversation with harbinger 
Listen to his end game speach again -  Note the use of word "void"

www.youtube.com/watch

A growing void? What does he mean?

If i had to guess and speculate - i would say, that after destruction of the sovereign, disabling of the citadel comeback button, reapers, has no one left at home to oppose the leviathans - who start to gather strengh.  Potential surrendered to void - leviathans gaining control over races of the galaxy (and namely humans), 
But soon they will return and set thing right again. (by kiling everyone, making a reaper out of humans, and reseting the farm)

He says "You will surrender your potential against a growing void." Seems as if he wants it.

[paxxton]

MaximizedAction wrote...

In my opinion it makes no sense to introduce the Leviathans as a true enemy, one that is the true evil behind it all, of the trilogy, so late in a DLC -- even the Emperor has been introduced as the even-bigger-bad guy in Empire Strikes Back. The Reapers have been there since day one: the very first mission in the trilogy is because of one of them.

Furthermore, this being done so late in the trilogy, after all we have done, found out and deducted, sounds like the message of the story is "we on our own are unable to find out a bigger picture." and need a nearly god-like species to be tell us. That heavily undermines the human(and organic) mind.

So I think that the Reapers are still the real enemy behind it all.

Maybe it foreshadows the next trilogy.