80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Eryri]

SwobyJ wrote...

The big point might be that because Shepard can be exposed to all of these things and make it, THAT is the whole point of the 'genetic maliability'. There is some end goal of the god races that require something in humanity that Shepard exhibits. Shepard can either:
a)give the god races (Reapers or Leviathan? I dunno) what they want
b)deny them what they want, and insist on freedom against larger tyrany
c)become a tyrant yourself, hello TIM DLC

Maybe certain humans like Shepard are evolving resistance to indoctrination? The Reapers want to harness this resistance so they can make a reaper that's immune to the Leviathan's enthrallment. That way they can finally hunt down the last of the Leviathans without being zapped out of the sky.

The Leviathans might be interested in humans for the same reason, to use as weapons against the Reapers.

It's a bit like Babylon 5. Two ancient godlike races using lesser species as pawns in their ancient war. The Vorlons creating telepaths to use against the Shadows, who then countered by incorporating telepaths into their ships.

@Demersel - By the way, I'm really enjoying your take on this war between Lovecraftian ancients! I do hope it's what Bioware is actually building towards.

Modifié par Eryri, 30 août 2012 - 08:04 .

[demersel]

paxxton wrote...

One thing doesn't add up. If the Leviathans are an aquatic species, how can one be shown flying above the savages?

they are no aquatic. 

They don't care about the water. 

They could hide in an ocean of lequid sulfur, if they wanted.



It tells me that the initial home of the leviathans would be inside of a star (reaper technology suggests it. (derelict reaper is perfectly fine, almost faalen on the surface of a star) - and they feed on it until it turnes into a black hole (dark matter related in real life by the way)  - so it would be the first place for reapers to look for them. what is the opposite of inside of the star? At the bottom of an ocean - that is exaclty like the place leviathan hides.

And remeber - collector base was in the centre of the galaxy (which is a giant black hole in real life, if you don't know, which has attracted millins of stars by it's gravity pull)  - only one reaper is born each cycle. The first reaper was harbinger, and it was made out of the leviathans - it is safe to assume that the place where the collector base was, was in fact true home of leviathans. And that means that Omega is VERY important as it is a door to the leviathans true home. 


Leviathans feed on stars. That is exacly what happened to heastrom sun, as soon as the reapers were temporaly out of the pictur, unable to return through citadel. Leviathans found out about because of the sovereign's attack on the citadel - (why would he attack it if he controls it?? He doesn control it? YAY!!! Lets feast!!!)  
 

Modifié par demersel, 30 août 2012 - 07:58 .

[Norlond]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

I think we have to look at what the Leviathans tell us of their history carefully, remembering three things as we go:
1. These monsters have a completely alien point of view.
2. We are insignificant to them.
3. It may not be in their interest to tell us whole truths, or at least not whole truths from our point of view.

I'm in, but we need a full transcript of all the dialogue

[paxxton]

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

One thing doesn't add up. If the Leviathans are an aquatic species, how can one be shown flying above the savages?

they are no aquatic. 

They don't care about the water. 

They could hide in an ocean of lequid sulfur, if they wanted.



It tells me that the initial home of the leviathans would be inside of a star (reaper technology suggests it. (derelict reaper is perfectly fine, almost faalen on the surface of a star) - and they feed on it until it turnes into a black hole (dark matter related in real life by the way)  - so it would be the first place for reapers to look for them. what is the opposite of inside of the star? At the bottom of an ocean - that is exaclty like the place leviathan hides.

And remeber - collector base was in the centre of the galaxy (which is a giant black hole in real life, if you don't know, which has attracted millins of stars by it's gravity pull)  - only one reaper is born each cycle. The first reaper was harbinger, and it was made out of the leviathans - it is safe to assume that the place where the collector base was, was in fact true home of leviathans. And that means that Omega is VERY important as it is a door to the leviathans true home. 

 

They are aquatic according to in-game texts (Codex or elsewhere, I don't remember).

[demersel]

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

One thing doesn't add up. If the Leviathans are an aquatic species, how can one be shown flying above the savages?

they are no aquatic. 

They don't care about the water. 

They could hide in an ocean of lequid sulfur, if they wanted.



It tells me that the initial home of the leviathans would be inside of a star (reaper technology suggests it. (derelict reaper is perfectly fine, almost faalen on the surface of a star) - and they feed on it until it turnes into a black hole (dark matter related in real life by the way)  - so it would be the first place for reapers to look for them. what is the opposite of inside of the star? At the bottom of an ocean - that is exaclty like the place leviathan hides.

And remeber - collector base was in the centre of the galaxy (which is a giant black hole in real life, if you don't know, which has attracted millins of stars by it's gravity pull)  - only one reaper is born each cycle. The first reaper was harbinger, and it was made out of the leviathans - it is safe to assume that the place where the collector base was, was in fact true home of leviathans. And that means that Omega is VERY important as it is a door to the leviathans true home. 

 

They are aquatic according to in-game texts (Codex or elsewhere, I don't remember).

I have not yet read the codex on them, i admitt. But anyway, codex is written form ingame prospective - and that means that only things that shepard found out and withessed, about leviathans could possibly be in there - he saw them on the bottom of the ocean. 

[Norlond]

demersel wrote...

It tells me that the initial home of the leviathans would be inside of a star

Sry, but that's impossible, the most complex things inside a star are carbon and silicon, there are no molecules^_^

[paxxton]

So Leviathans sit at the bottom of an ocean for millions of years. And they live inside the minds of the thralls. Sounds cool.

Modifié par paxxton, 30 août 2012 - 08:08 .

[GethPrimeMKII]

demersel wrote...

Guys.

I really feel, that by this point, the theory, that the ending is an attempt of Harbinger to indoctrinate Shepard is pretty much proven, and may be taken as fact. (and that it is a dream at that- we are SHOWN how this works in the leviathan)

I think we really should move on to speculations about what is really going on in Mass Effect 3, and by extension the whole Mass Effect series, and what could come next.
It is a quest. And a puzzle. We already have most of the peaces. (ME1 + DLCs, ME2+DLCs, ME3+some DLCs, books, comics, etc.)

We need to start combing all that for clues. Revise all the facts that we do know, and see how they fit together. (if at all).

And while we do this we must disregard arguments like "Bad Writing" or "It was intended, but then cancelled".

Mass Effect - is a fiction. It is created. Crafted. Ingeneered. And it is still being created.
But that means that those who create it have the save info we do, as basis to create on.

If one man put something together - other man always will be able to take it apart.
We must reverse-engeneer the story. It can be done. As i said - we already have most of the parts.

Sounds like a good idea. 

[Dwailing]

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

One thing doesn't add up. If the Leviathans are an aquatic species, how can one be shown flying above the savages?

they are no aquatic. 

They don't care about the water. 

They could hide in an ocean of lequid sulfur, if they wanted.



It tells me that the initial home of the leviathans would be inside of a star (reaper technology suggests it. (derelict reaper is perfectly fine, almost faalen on the surface of a star) - and they feed on it until it turnes into a black hole (dark matter related in real life by the way)  - so it would be the first place for reapers to look for them. what is the opposite of inside of the star? At the bottom of an ocean - that is exaclty like the place leviathan hides.

And remeber - collector base was in the centre of the galaxy (which is a giant black hole in real life, if you don't know, which has attracted millins of stars by it's gravity pull)  - only one reaper is born each cycle. The first reaper was harbinger, and it was made out of the leviathans - it is safe to assume that the place where the collector base was, was in fact true home of leviathans. And that means that Omega is VERY important as it is a door to the leviathans true home. 


Leviathans feed on stars. That is exacly what happened to heastrom sun, as soon as the reapers were temporaly out of the pictur, unable to return through citadel. Leviathans found out about because of the sovereign's attack on the citadel - (why would he attack it if he controls it?? He doesn control it? YAY!!! Lets feast!!!)  
 

That would be interesting, but they'd need one FRAKKING good explanation for how big stupid cuttlefish (I'm totally going to call the Leviathans that from now on.) can survive in a star.

[Norlond]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

demersel wrote...

Guys.

I really feel, that by this point, the theory, that the ending is an attempt of Harbinger to indoctrinate Shepard is pretty much proven, and may be taken as fact. (and that it is a dream at that- we are SHOWN how this works in the leviathan)

I think we really should move on to speculations about what is really going on in Mass Effect 3, and by extension the whole Mass Effect series, and what could come next.
It is a quest. And a puzzle. We already have most of the peaces. (ME1 + DLCs, ME2+DLCs, ME3+some DLCs, books, comics, etc.)

We need to start combing all that for clues. Revise all the facts that we do know, and see how they fit together. (if at all).

And while we do this we must disregard arguments like "Bad Writing" or "It was intended, but then cancelled".

Mass Effect - is a fiction. It is created. Crafted. Ingeneered. And it is still being created.
But that means that those who create it have the save info we do, as basis to create on.

If one man put something together - other man always will be able to take it apart.
We must reverse-engeneer the story. It can be done. As i said - we already have most of the parts.

Sounds like a good idea. 

seconded, but it may take forever, it's a huge amount of work to retrace the development of the entire storyline

[demersel]

Norlond wrote...

demersel wrote...

It tells me that the initial home of the leviathans would be inside of a star

Sry, but that's impossible, the most complex things inside a star are carbon and silicon, there are no molecules^_^

Did we or did we not visit a derelict reaper in ME2, that has almost fallen inside the brown dwarf, and thought being dead was perfectly fine? 

[Norlond]

Dwailing wrote...

That would be interesting, but they'd need one FRAKKING good explanation for how big stupid cuttlefish (I'm totally going to call the Leviathans that from now on.) can survive in a star.

hey, that's my invention :lol:

But look three posts above yours, it's impossible to live INSIDE a star, molecules can't exist there

[demersel]

Dwailing wrote...

That would be interesting, but they'd need one FRAKKING good explanation for how big stupid cuttlefish (I'm totally going to call the Leviathans that from now on.) can survive in a star.

A reaper can. And why would they need such an ability to harvest all organic life? 
Remember, reapers were created in leviathan's image.

Modifié par demersel, 30 août 2012 - 08:16 .

[demersel]

Norlond wrote...

But look three posts above yours, it's impossible to live INSIDE a star, molecules can't exist there

molecules can't. But BIG STUPID CUTTLEFISH can. 

[Norlond]

demersel wrote...

Norlond wrote...

demersel wrote...

It tells me that the initial home of the leviathans would be inside of a star

Sry, but that's impossible, the most complex things inside a star are carbon and silicon, there are no molecules^_^

Did we or did we not visit a derelict reaper in ME2, that has almost fallen inside the brown dwarf, and thought being dead was perfectly fine? 

I didn't say it's impossible to orbit a star, and btw a brown dwarf isn't really a star, it's more like a big jupiter *sciencenerd* 
But living INSIDE one is impossible, atoms can't connect to be molecules because the electrons are all flying around in the plasma

*edit* ok you read it, just ignore this
yeah big stupid cuttlefish (i called them that first!!) may be able to do that

Modifié par Norlond, 30 août 2012 - 08:18 .

[FreddyCast]

Hey guys, I'm back. I've finally finished the vid and it's uploaded on youtube.
I welcome you to go on an adventure with me.
Enter into the  Dark Journey of Shepard's Indoctrination.
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Norlond]

FreddyCast wrote...

Hey guys, I'm back. I've finally finished the vid and it's uploaded on youtube.
I welcome you to go on an adventure with me.
Enter into the  Dark Journey of Shepard's Indoctrination.
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Why do you do this, I wanted to sleep now    

[paxxton]

FreddyCast wrote...

Hey guys, I'm back. I've finally finished the vid and it's uploaded on youtube.
I welcome you to go on an adventure with me.
Enter into the  Dark Journey of Shepard's Indoctrination.
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Hooray!

[demersel]

Eryri wrote...

@Demersel - By the way, I'm really enjoying your take on this war between Lovecraftian ancients! I do hope it's what Bioware is actually building towards.

Thanks. I thing a saw a picture somewhere which suggests the whole idea about the connection between the reapers and stars (and that might have been the leviathans there in the picture) - i'm trying to find it now, or at least remember where i saw it. 

[BansheeOwnage]

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

One thing doesn't add up. If the Leviathans are an aquatic species, how can one be shown flying above the savages?

they are no aquatic. 

They don't care about the water. 

They could hide in an ocean of lequid sulfur, if they wanted.



It tells me that the initial home of the leviathans would be inside of a star (reaper technology suggests it. (derelict reaper is perfectly fine, almost faalen on the surface of a star) - and they feed on it until it turnes into a black hole (dark matter related in real life by the way)  - so it would be the first place for reapers to look for them. what is the opposite of inside of the star? At the bottom of an ocean - that is exaclty like the place leviathan hides.

And remeber - collector base was in the centre of the galaxy (which is a giant black hole in real life, if you don't know, which has attracted millins of stars by it's gravity pull)  - only one reaper is born each cycle. The first reaper was harbinger, and it was made out of the leviathans - it is safe to assume that the place where the collector base was, was in fact true home of leviathans. And that means that Omega is VERY important as it is a door to the leviathans true home. 


Leviathans feed on stars. That is exacly what happened to heastrom sun, as soon as the reapers were temporaly out of the pictur, unable to return through citadel. Leviathans found out about because of the sovereign's attack on the citadel - (why would he attack it if he controls it?? He doesn control it? YAY!!! Lets feast!!!)  
 

Alright. Sorry if someone already said this, but they could not possibly live inside a star. Not reapers or leviathans. A brown dwarf is a gas giant that almost acquired enough mass to ingite with nuclear fusion. It's not a star. And the collector base isn't in a black hole; it's near one. It uses mass effect tech to remain safe from the hole's gravity well. I believe it was located just outside the accretion disk. Also, in real life, you don't have black holes of varying size. The centre of the galaxy is a black hole, sure, but it is not large. It is only massive - Supermassive to be precise. "Massive" is one of those words that is too often used out of context. It simply means something has a lot of mass, not that it is big.

[Spartas Husky]

paxxton wrote...

Yes, buy it without hesitation. Totally worth every BW point.

ah.... thanks I wont buy it. that o ver the top response means it doesn't do squat besides extending lore and plotholes. Thanks though.

[demersel]

 While i search for the Reapers+Stars concept picture, i found this one.....



It is called Mass_Effect_Earth_Reaper and it originates as far as i can tell from the launch of the ME3 demo announcment,,



gamerfront.net/2012/02/reapers-show-force-in-the-new-mass-effect-3-teaser-trailer/16637

[BansheeOwnage]

Ace7 wrote...

too many questions....lol. I was hoping Leviathan DLC would put my mind at ease but It's gone onto overdrive with all the pondering and speculation.

Something else which is interesting and maybe you guys can clarify this for me. Leviathan claims Harbinger is the first Reaper, modelled on the Leviathans. Were all other reapers were created after each subsequent cycle? If so, how exactly did the AI and Harbinger harvest in the first cycle if he was the only one? We saw in the DLC that Levi plus two friends were able to take down a reaper easily.

Yeah, I thought the same thing before and after the DLC.

[BansheeOwnage]

Spartas Husky wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Yes, buy it without hesitation. Totally worth every BW point.

ah.... thanks I wont buy it. that o ver the top response means it doesn't do squat besides extending lore and plotholes. Thanks though.

Not sure if serious...

The DLC was great, even if it raised more questions than it answered. The additional squad banter made it worth getting.

[Norlond]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Alright. Sorry if someone already said this, but they could not possibly live inside a star. Not reapers or leviathans. A brown dwarf is a gas giant that almost acquired enough mass to ingite with nuclear fusion. It's not a star. And the collector base isn't in a black hole; it's near one. It uses mass effect tech to remain safe from the hole's gravity well. I believe it was located just outside the accretion disk. Also, in real life, you don't have black holes of varying size. The centre of the galaxy is a black hole, sure, but it is not large. It is only massive - Supermassive to be precise. "Massive" is one of those words that is too often used out of context. It simply means something has a lot of mass, not that it is big.

I said that just 5 posts above yours, you're ignoring me
But nevermind, your explanation is better anyway