80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Ace7]

cheers. Just watched. yeah, I personally, get the vibe now that the crucible is reaper based and that Levi also knows more than he/she/it is letting on.

[Gwyphon]

Yeah I'm actually hoping they elaborate a little more on all the points raised in leviathan, like they pretty much created all this awe around protheans, then trumped it with the reapers in me2, and now again 10 fold in a simple dlc. I hope it goes further though that seems a little difficult, especially considering the people who haven't bought it.
Oh well I'm off to bed, just as everyone else is waking up I'm sure. Curse this time zone!

[AxStapleton]

Dwailing wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

As far as I can tell leviathans don't indoctrinate, they just control. There isn't the degredation either I believe. However, it's not much of a leap to assume indoctrination is a descendant of whatever levis do.

It would make sense for indoctrination to be a refinement of what the Leviathans do.  I think Levvy specifically mentions that the Reapers refined their method of control into indoctrination.  Which makes me wonder about just what Harby is capable of.  If he's the first Reaper, then that means that he probably has Levvy's original control powers at his disposal in addition to regular indoctrination.  Implications... unpleasant (Or very pleasant, depending on how you look at it. ).

Edit: Oh!  I just realized!  That explains the whole "Assuming direct control" thing that he does all the time!  He's employing traditional Leviathan control!

Not sure because Sovvy could do it as well, but it may explain why Harby could do it it so much more seamlessly.

[Dwailing]

paxxton wrote...

Gwyphon wrote...

Ace7 wrote...

Sorry Gwyphon, link doesn't work for me

Fixed. Wrong link

Might be Leviathan feeling for all the lost lives throughout the cycles. But could also be him disappointed and sad that the device supposed to bring their rules to the Galaxy back hasn't been ever built and used. One question: If they know of the Reapers and have the ability to influence minds why didn't they direct the species or leaders to built it in between Reapers' visits?

I thought Leviathan was considering how much to tell Shepard.  Honestly paxx, you seem way too quick to trust the Leviathans.  They are not good news.  I'll bet you a digital drink right now that they are going to be the Big Bads of Mass Effect 4, whenever it comes out.

[paxxton]

agmrpink wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Maybe try to explain what you mean in your post.

Given that the decicion chamber at the end is Shepard fighting/submitting to Harbinger, he has the will and ability to fight said indoctrination.

Leviathan's takeover appears to be much more absolute. Once he enter's Shepard's mind, Shep appears to be helpless, without any means of resisting or escaping.

This disparity leads me to assume that the ways Harby/Levy assume control are either not through the same indoc mechanisms, or there are degrees of ability doing so. One requiring the subject to submit, with the latter being a complete mind-control until the master releases, disregarding the subject's mental state.

Reaper Indoctrination is slow and seamless. Indoctrinated folks don't know they are under the influence. On the other hand, Leviathans' mind control is unsustainable. Shepard breaks out from time to time as do Bryson's assistant and others. The researchers and the T-GES facility might have also broke out from time to time but were unconcious for the duration of the break (like Shepard).

Modifié par paxxton, 31 août 2012 - 04:58 .

[Dwailing]

AxStapleton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

As far as I can tell leviathans don't indoctrinate, they just control. There isn't the degredation either I believe. However, it's not much of a leap to assume indoctrination is a descendant of whatever levis do.

It would make sense for indoctrination to be a refinement of what the Leviathans do.  I think Levvy specifically mentions that the Reapers refined their method of control into indoctrination.  Which makes me wonder about just what Harby is capable of.  If he's the first Reaper, then that means that he probably has Levvy's original control powers at his disposal in addition to regular indoctrination.  Implications... unpleasant (Or very pleasant, depending on how you look at it. ).

Edit: Oh!  I just realized!  That explains the whole "Assuming direct control" thing that he does all the time!  He's employing traditional Leviathan control!

Not sure because Sovvy could do it as well, but it may explain why Harby could do it it so much more seamlessly.

True, Sovvy could do it, but like you said, Harby could do it with much less fuss.  And, he wasn't crippled (Or at least, I don't THINK he was.) when his minions were killed.  Just like Leviathan.  I mean, I know he released control, but couldn't Sovvy have just released control of Saren once he was suffering serious damage and avoided all that fuss?

Edit: I should clarify one thing.  He's probably not using the EXACT same type of control.  But it's probably a variation of it that is definitely different from traditional indoctrination.

Modifié par Dwailing, 31 août 2012 - 05:05 .

[paxxton]

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Gwyphon wrote...

Ace7 wrote...

Sorry Gwyphon, link doesn't work for me

Fixed. Wrong link

Might be Leviathan feeling for all the lost lives throughout the cycles. But could also be him disappointed and sad that the device supposed to bring their rules to the Galaxy back hasn't been ever built and used. One question: If they know of the Reapers and have the ability to influence minds why didn't they direct the species or leaders to built it in between Reapers' visits?

I thought Leviathan was considering how much to tell Shepard.  Honestly paxx, you seem way too quick to trust the Leviathans.  They are not good news.  I'll bet you a digital drink right now that they are going to be the Big Bads of Mass Effect 4, whenever it comes out.

Maybe they will but for now they agreed to fight the Reapers.

[FellishBeast]

PAGE 666 omg!!!!! D:{

[Dwailing]

FellishBeast wrote...

PAGE 666 omg!!!!! D:{

And we're talking about the demons of the Mass Effect universe on it, too.

[Tooneyman]

:innocent:Had to pop in on the devils number. YEs it was flawed. Lets add a happier one now.

Modifié par Tooneyman, 31 août 2012 - 05:08 .

[paxxton]

Dwailing wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

PAGE 666 omg!!!!! D:{

And we're talking about the demons of the Mass Effect universe on it, too.

Demons? They are everybody's bros. Levi for a squadmate!

[Dwailing]

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

PAGE 666 omg!!!!! D:{

And we're talking about the demons of the Mass Effect universe on it, too.

Demons? They are everybody's bros. Levi for a squadmate!

Frak no!  I don't want to randomly lose control of the game and get put into that creepy mind-kicked-out-of-my-body world.

[FFZero]

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

PAGE 666 omg!!!!! D:{

And we're talking about the demons of the Mass Effect universe on it, too.

Demons? They are everybody's bros. Levi for a squadmate!

Frak no!  I don't want to randomly lose control of the game and get put into that creepy mind-kicked-out-of-my-body world.

From the Mass Effect 3: Final Hours App:
"And even in November, the gameplay team was still experimenting with an end-game sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full Reaper control.

Implications..interesting.

Modifié par FFZero, 31 août 2012 - 05:19 .

[Rifneno]

Leviathan just sucks. I can maintain control of Shepard just fine indefinitely.

[BansheeOwnage]

Rifneno wrote...

Leviathan just sucks. I can maintain control of Shepard just fine indefinitely.

Hahahahaha!  You're right.

[paxxton]

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

PAGE 666 omg!!!!! D:{

And we're talking about the demons of the Mass Effect universe on it, too.

Demons? They are everybody's bros. Levi for a squadmate!

Frak no!  I don't want to randomly lose control of the game and get put into that creepy mind-kicked-out-of-my-body world.

(in TIM's voice) Imagine the power they wield. Look what they can do.

Seriously though, they are a little too big for a squadmate. They wouldn't be able to enter any building.

Modifié par paxxton, 31 août 2012 - 05:25 .

[BansheeOwnage]

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

PAGE 666 omg!!!!! D:{

And we're talking about the demons of the Mass Effect universe on it, too.

Demons? They are everybody's bros. Levi for a squadmate!

Frak no!  I don't want to randomly lose control of the game and get put into that creepy mind-kicked-out-of-my-body world.

(in TIM's voice) Imagine the power they wield. Look what they can do.

Seriously though, they are a little too big for a squadmate. They wouldn't be able to enter any building.

Who needs buildings?

[paxxton]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

PAGE 666 omg!!!!! D:{

And we're talking about the demons of the Mass Effect universe on it, too.

Demons? They are everybody's bros. Levi for a squadmate!

Frak no!  I don't want to randomly lose control of the game and get put into that creepy mind-kicked-out-of-my-body world.

(in TIM's voice) Imagine the power they wield. Look what they can do.

Seriously though, they are a little too big for a squadmate. They wouldn't be able to enter any building.

Who needs buildings?

Right. Who needs them?

[AxStapleton]

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

PAGE 666 omg!!!!! D:{

And we're talking about the demons of the Mass Effect universe on it, too.

Demons? They are everybody's bros. Levi for a squadmate!

Have you been hanging around turqoise glowing sphereical objects lately? 

[demersel]

This thing about leviathans creating an AI.... how would he actually do that? I mean what would it look like, what hardware use?
It looks like they just created automated method of control, who would, without  their direct intervention promote one idea to thralls - preservance of life at any cost - you know so the leviathans would have to contanly interfere. - and that method - is indoctrination.
Thing about it - leavuthan's enthrallment - need direct input from a leaviathan.
Reaper indoctrintaion - doesn't need direct input of a reaper.
It fit's - this AI they created - it is what later became indoctrination itself. (and in that way it does control all the reapers. But INDIRECTLY)
And it fits the story told both by the guardian and by the leviathan perfectly.
Aslo maybe levithans do have to hibernate for a long periods of time - thas the need for inderect control method. 

also another thought - addition of the leviathan's lore - could provide an explanation to how the Illusive man was controlling Shepard and Anderson. in a literal version.

I think it may as well turn out that while the ending is a dream, the Illusive man was aware of leviathan's existence, did indeed tried to reverse engineer the indoctrination to find learn how to directly control being, and refine this method, so it includes both reapers and the leviathans.

Modifié par demersel, 31 août 2012 - 05:46 .

[Rifneno]

Hmm. Does Jartar have water? It doesn't look like it from the wiki description... if it doesn't have water, then can we rule out the notion that Leviathans are restricted to water? If one killed a capital ship there, then...

[paxxton]

AxStapleton wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

PAGE 666 omg!!!!! D:{

And we're talking about the demons of the Mass Effect universe on it, too.

Demons? They are everybody's bros. Levi for a squadmate!

Have you been hanging around turqoise glowing sphereical objects lately? 

How did you know?  There's plenty of those in my area. I even brought one home. Never knew why.

Modifié par paxxton, 31 août 2012 - 05:54 .

[paxxton]

Rifneno wrote...

Hmm. Does Jartar have water? It doesn't look like it from the wiki description... if it doesn't have water, then can we rule out the notion that Leviathans are restricted to water? If one killed a capital ship there, then...

Not yet. They could've done it through the artifacts.

Modifié par paxxton, 31 août 2012 - 05:56 .

[BansheeOwnage]

Rifneno wrote...

Hmm. Does Jartar have water? It doesn't look like it from the wiki description... if it doesn't have water, then can we rule out the notion that Leviathans are restricted to water? If one killed a capital ship there, then...

I'm not sure, but how did they kill it anyway?
Edit: I think we can aussume they are not restricted to water because of the drawings of them.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 31 août 2012 - 05:58 .

[BansheeOwnage]

demersel wrote...

also another thought - addition of the leviathan's lore - could provide an explanation to how the Illusive man was controlling Shepard and Anderson. in a literal version.

Except it's the oppostite. Leviathans assume control of a victim and control their mind. TIM controlled Shep and Andy's bodies, not their minds. I still think that's just some BS to show it's not actually happening.