80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Arashi08]

demersel wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Khalisah Al-Jilani: If true, you told Admiral Hackett to assist the Destiny Ascension, costing hundreds of human lives and securing the continued dominance of the Citadel Council.
Shepard: The Turians lost 20 cruisers. Figure each had a crew around 300. The Ascension - the asari dreadnought we saved - had a crew of nearly 10,000.
Khalisah Al-Jilani: But surely the human cost--
Shepard: The Alliance lost eight cruisers. Shenyang. Emden. Jakarta. Cairo. Cape Town. Warsaw. Madrid. And yes, I remember them all. Everyone in the 5th Fleet is a hero. The Alliance owes them all medals. The Council owes them a lot more than that. And so do you.

We don't know how many the turians had there, but you can be damned sure they'd have lost them all trying to save the Ascension. You can save the Ascension and likely quite a few other alien ships by sacrificing 8 Alliance cruisers. Now we don't know how much firepower a cruiser packs, but we know a dreadnought's main gun hits as hard as a small fission bomb. There's treaties about how many dreadnoughts you can have, none about cruisers. It's only an educated guess, but I'd say the Ascension alone packs more firepower than those cruisers. I'm not putting too much stock in what war assets' ratings are. I can promote one vorcha and it'll give me more EMS than any dreadnought in the galaxy.

True. 
You all  really forget my main point and motivation behind my decision - I didn't know what it was gonna do at the time. And neither did you. As far as I knew - by chosing to delay the attack on sovereign, to assist Destiny Ascention, i kight have given Soverign just enough time to open the citadel portal, and let countless reapers in, which would result id destruction of all the fleets that were there, and the consequently the death of all galactic civilizations. I did not know at the time that this particular choice doesn't have an effect on the out come oh this particular game. 

I will own up to choosing the same thing the first time.  Ironically, back in 2007 I had a more pragmatic, even Machiavellian view on life so I thought it was the best decision too, but when I saw first hand what the ramifications of my decision were on ME2, I felt that I had actually made the wrong choice.  Better that I made that choice in a video game than have made a similar one in real life I suppose.

I hope you know that I'm not trying to judge you for your decision, I just wanted to share my views on the subject.  Hopefully there are no hard feelings.

[Arashi08]

Hrothdane wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...




Well that was certainly Machiavellian of you lol.

I'm not saying this about you, but about the philosophy of Machiavelli himself.  Your philospohy, while similar in my opinion, is not necessarily the same as his.

Personally, I found Machiavelli to be a bit ignorant and narrow-minded; he believed that humans were inherently evil and would act on their dark instincts if given the chance.  From my experience, people naturally seek harmony, and when they don't know how to find it, or something clouds that vision for them, then they look for something to fill the void they lost.  most irrational negative behavior stems from a material want, which is a substitiute for a need which was lost.  it is like if something intricately intimate to their very being was taken from them and it leaves an addiction with which people need to fill with "things"  whatever those things may be.

But I'm getting off track, but your post reminded me of what little I had read about Machiavelli (he was also mentioned in ME1)  I don't know how you got the gun merchant to treat you like as king, unless that means he gave you a discount for fighting the enemy of his enemy, which he did for me when I did a playthrough that sacrificed the council, but he still treated me like he didn't want me around, and the other races seem to support what Talid advocates when you talk to Bailey about it.  Nor did I see the condescention you were talking about.  People seemed to geniunely respect me alot more for my decision and humanity is much more widely respected in general as a result.  So naturally, I have a hard time seeing the condescention and "brownnosing."  you are seeing.

Machiavelli felt that being feared was better than being loved.  I disagree.  Loyalty is alot less breakable than fear imo.  When your subjects fear you, all it will take is something they fear more to persuade them to the other side, or to simply flee entirely, succumbing to their instincts.  Loyalty is far yess unyielding, as it gives people something that inspires them and something to rally behind.  People even go beyond their basic human instincts when loyalty and faith are involved. 

Reaper indoctrination is an excellent example of how this method works, albeit in a more sinister light.  The Reapers don't rule through fear, they may use fear initially, but what causes a person to be indoctrinated is that the Reapers create loyalty.  it's alot like how organized religions do it.  So yes, this casts inspiration in as much a negative light as a positive one, but the result still seems more applicable that fear to me.

Sorry this got all long winded, I'm not trying to persuade you to my side or anything.  But you gave your opinion and I thought it only fair that I give mine.  I respect your choices; your life was shaped differently than mine so you have your own reasons, just as I have mine, and your experiences shaped your view and decisions.  I personally couldn't disagree with you more, but that doesn't automatically make me right either.  We all have our reasons for our choices.

I just wanted to add that now that historians have access to more of Machiavelli's writings and information about him personally, they believe that The Prince was a satire.

He was actually a passionate proponent of republics and democracies.

ah an excellent point.  it also explains why he was on Ezio's side in Assassin's Creed II lol

well I better go to sleep...

[Dam0299]

Its funny i have played all 3 ME games many times and have always chose the same actions (save for Kaiden and Ashley on Virmire), Why?, Even though I did not know what the consequenses to my actions the first time I played would be, I was happy with the end result and as such have no regrets about my decision. Prehaps I'm just lucky with my gut instinct .

[demersel]

Dam0299 wrote...

Its funny i have played all 3 ME games many times and have always chose the same actions (save for Kaiden and Ashley on Virmire), Why?, Even though I did not know what the consequenses to my actions the first time I played would be, I was happy with the end result and as such have no regrets about my decision. Prehaps I'm just lucky with my gut instinct .

+1
Always felt the same way. There is only one way the events happened in the ME universe for me - and that is the way of my firts choices. I tried making a different character, or even picking different options with the same character, but it just feels wrong, and fake. And I can't imagine Shepard other then my initial custom Shepard. - that guy is like a movie super star for my. 

[Valmarn]

demersel wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Khalisah Al-Jilani: If true, you told Admiral Hackett to assist the Destiny Ascension, costing hundreds of human lives and securing the continued dominance of the Citadel Council.
Shepard: The Turians lost 20 cruisers. Figure each had a crew around 300. The Ascension - the asari dreadnought we saved - had a crew of nearly 10,000.
Khalisah Al-Jilani: But surely the human cost--
Shepard: The Alliance lost eight cruisers. Shenyang. Emden. Jakarta. Cairo. Cape Town. Warsaw. Madrid. And yes, I remember them all. Everyone in the 5th Fleet is a hero. The Alliance owes them all medals. The Council owes them a lot more than that. And so do you.

We don't know how many the turians had there, but you can be damned sure they'd have lost them all trying to save the Ascension. You can save the Ascension and likely quite a few other alien ships by sacrificing 8 Alliance cruisers. Now we don't know how much firepower a cruiser packs, but we know a dreadnought's main gun hits as hard as a small fission bomb. There's treaties about how many dreadnoughts you can have, none about cruisers. It's only an educated guess, but I'd say the Ascension alone packs more firepower than those cruisers. I'm not putting too much stock in what war assets' ratings are. I can promote one vorcha and it'll give me more EMS than any dreadnought in the galaxy.

True. 
You all  really forget my main point and motivation behind my decision - I didn't know what it was gonna do at the time. And neither did you. As far as I knew - by chosing to delay the attack on sovereign, to assist Destiny Ascention, i kight have given Soverign just enough time to open the citadel portal, and let countless reapers in, which would result id destruction of all the fleets that were there, and the consequently the death of all galactic civilizations. I did not know at the time that this particular choice doesn't have an effect on the out come oh this particular game. 

Did you honestly think that delaying the attack on Sovereign might have resulted in him/it opening the Citadel portal and allowing the rest of the Reapers to come flooding in, or are you just trying to save face?

Even if that were to happen, it would just mean "Game Over," in which case: 1. Reload, 2. Try again.

Hell, if you end up unhappy with the outcome of any particular decision, whoopty doo. Reload and try again.

Modifié par Valmarn, 01 septembre 2012 - 08:01 .

[demersel]

Valmarn wrote...

Did you honestly think that delaying the attack on Sovereign might have resulted in him/it opening the Citadel portal and allowing the rest of the Reapers to come flooding in, or are you just trying to save face?

Even if that were to happen, it would just mean "Game Over," in which case you just reload.

Hell, If you end up unhappy with the outcome of any particular decision, whoopty doo. Reload and try again.

Yes. I honestly thought that. I felt that it would be ironic kind of game over. Remember, at the time it was Just Mass Effect - the were no ME2 and ME3. 
And even if take into consideration other games - in mass effect 2 - if you take to much time preparing for the Suicide mission - your kidnapped crew dies. And that was what has happened to me in my first playthrough - i did the reaper IFF to early, but then took my time preparing for the suicide mission, to ensure that i won't  fail it. - naturally a watched Kelly Chambers melt.- ME1 ending taught me that there is now time factor. And there was. Furthermore, it's trigger - the reaper IFF mission, isn't  very apperant. - So in ME2 i felt a bit cheated by the gamemechanic, and tha fact that it happened because of my knoweldge of ME1 game mechanic. 

 I replayed it later in NG+ on insanity, and this time saved everyone. And that was the save i imported into ME3 (cause i did all the DLC on this one) - so each time a see Kelly Chambers in the docs - I can't really shake the feeling, that im' seeing a ghost. or an undead - and her personality in ME3 doesn't help with it either - she feels like dead person. 
(and before you ask - i don't really care about Kelly, I saved the crew mainly because of all other people in it, like engineers Daniels and Donnelly.)


And I don't have to SAVE FACE.  I left the council to die and I stand by this decision. 
I killed the Rachni. (while i admit that giev the knowledge of ME2 and ME3 that wasn't needed - i still stand by this decision. Not because it was right or wrong, but because it was what has happened.)  

 

Modifié par demersel, 01 septembre 2012 - 08:19 .

[desert_beagle]

I remember making that decision. The first time round I saved my forces for Sovereign. The Council did just enough to ****** me off throughout the game to make me feel like they were getting their just desserts.

[RavenEyry]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Ladies and gentlemen of the court, I ask you if this sounds like the sort of music that would occampany a being with only our best intentions at heart?

Of course!  Just like this one, or this one, or this one. These may not exactly be evil, but they are creepy. Creepy. Or sinister. Not victorious.

Repost for awesome music.

[spotlessvoid]

Bill Casey wrote...

Control working out runs concurrent to base themes. Control of this type is doomed to folly in the Mass Effect universe, from Miranda and Tali's respective fathers, to the Illusive Man, Project Overlord, to the Salarians and their uplift program, to the Prothean separatists to the Prothean Empire itself. Any attempt to Control the Reapers has led to indoctrination. Shepard repeatedly chastises The Illusive Man's methods regardless of options picked, and your crew repeatedly calls him crazy for thinking he can control the reapers. The theme is prevalent. This level of overreach shouldn't be rewarded just because Shepard does it...

This is compounded by the fact that the Reapers themselves are a force of corruption. Legion describes their minds are incomprehensibly powerful. It isn't like the Nautilus whose power itself corrupts Nemo; The Reapers themselves warp minds. Shepard is hearing voices, seeing shadows on the screen, and he just shot Anderson against his will a few minutes ago. Now he's going to control all of the Reapers. That's insultingly stupid from a conceptual standpoint. The fact that Anderson was yelling warnings and the Catalyst says "you will lose everything you have" turns this option from incredible dumb to "Schmuck Bait". Control working out turns the whole thing into a "Violation of Common Sense"...

Then we have Synthesis and Idon't even know where to start. We've been fighting forced transhumanism for three games now. It spits in the face of the themes of working out our differences, self determination against fatalism, the socio-technological balance, and diversity. It alters all life in the galaxy under the assertion that there is something fundamentally wrong with us. It's beyondcynical...

This is again a recurring theme with unfortunate implications. The Reapers see themselves as the final evolution of life. Saren has been mentioned enough, but the Illusive Man is forcing transhumanism to bring humanity to the "apex of evolution", in his own words. The Collectors and the Zha'Til are examples of Reapers fusing man and machine, and then altering their genetic material at the deepest level to form something new. Pretty much your entire squad in Mass Effect 2 tells you rewriting the heretics is the same as killing them...

The way the Geth and EDI are presented has severe racist undertones for the assertion that synthetic life will inevitably destroy organic life. The Geth tackle hot buttonissues of slavery and basic civil rights, and the Geth Consensus had scenes straight out of Germany inthe 1940s, where martial law is declared and Quarians are shot for "harboring synthetics"...

It's established through talking to EDI that peace between the Reapers should not work. World Leaders are being called into Reaper super structures to negotiate peace, but it's a ruse to indoctrinate them and pacify the populace. The leaders will soon enact laws that prevent attacking the Reapers, which will again be done in the name of peace. EDI makes certain to reiterate this. When the master control reapers says "we need eachother to make this happen", it red flags the entire situation and makes it working out another violation of common sense...

In fact, Destroy is the only option whose viability fits the narrative presented. If you talk to James Vega in your quarters, he will tell about how he destroyed acollector ship, but sacrificed most of the abducted colonists and his team in the process. There is no option to say anything other than James made the right call. Paragon or Renegade,Shepard says this was the right thing to do...

Lieutenant Victus doesn't want to sacrifice his men for the mission, and all Shepards talk him into it... Hackett sacrifices the entire second fleet, and Garrus has to make some extremely unpleasant tactical decisions...

Which begs the question:
Did Bioware really forget all this?

[RavenEyry]

demersel wrote...

And I don't have to SAVE FACE.  I left the council to die and I stand by this decision. 
I killed the Rachni. (while i admit that giev the knowledge of ME2 and ME3 that wasn't needed - i still stand by this decision. Not because it was right or wrong, but because it was what has happened.)  

I like that way of thinking, usually how I did it the first time round. If I made a poor choice it upset me but I stuck with it.

I also stay in character. One of my many reasons I choose destroy it's because it's what Shepard would do. Even if I preferred the control or synthesis cutscene or implications or whatever, I still choose destroy because my Shepard hasn't watched the endings on youtube before getting to the choice. I don't metagame basically.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Control working out runs concurrent to base themes. Control of this type is doomed to folly in the Mass Effect universe, from Miranda and Tali's respective fathers, to the Illusive Man, Project Overlord, to the Salarians and their uplift program, to the Prothean separatists to the Prothean Empire itself. Any attempt to Control the Reapers has led to indoctrination. Shepard repeatedly chastises The Illusive Man's methods regardless of options picked, and your crew repeatedly calls him crazy for thinking he can control the reapers. The theme is prevalent. This level of overreach shouldn't be rewarded just because Shepard does it...

This is compounded by the fact that the Reapers themselves are a force of corruption. Legion describes their minds are incomprehensibly powerful. It isn't like the Nautilus whose power itself corrupts Nemo; The Reapers themselves warp minds. Shepard is hearing voices, seeing shadows on the screen, and he just shot Anderson against his will a few minutes ago. Now he's going to control all of the Reapers. That's insultingly stupid from a conceptual standpoint. The fact that Anderson was yelling warnings and the Catalyst says "you will lose everything you have" turns this option from incredible dumb to "Schmuck Bait". Control working out turns the whole thing into a "Violation of Common Sense"...

Then we have Synthesis and Idon't even know where to start. We've been fighting forced transhumanism for three games now. It spits in the face of the themes of working out our differences, self determination against fatalism, the socio-technological balance, and diversity. It alters all life in the galaxy under the assertion that there is something fundamentally wrong with us. It's beyondcynical...

This is again a recurring theme with unfortunate implications. The Reapers see themselves as the final evolution of life. Saren has been mentioned enough, but the Illusive Man is forcing transhumanism to bring humanity to the "apex of evolution", in his own words. The Collectors and the Zha'Til are examples of Reapers fusing man and machine, and then altering their genetic material at the deepest level to form something new. Pretty much your entire squad in Mass Effect 2 tells you rewriting the heretics is the same as killing them...

The way the Geth and EDI are presented has severe racist undertones for the assertion that synthetic life will inevitably destroy organic life. The Geth tackle hot buttonissues of slavery and basic civil rights, and the Geth Consensus had scenes straight out of Germany inthe 1940s, where martial law is declared and Quarians are shot for "harboring synthetics"...

It's established through talking to EDI that peace between the Reapers should not work. World Leaders are being called into Reaper super structures to negotiate peace, but it's a ruse to indoctrinate them and pacify the populace. The leaders will soon enact laws that prevent attacking the Reapers, which will again be done in the name of peace. EDI makes certain to reiterate this. When the master control reapers says "we need eachother to make this happen", it red flags the entire situation and makes it working out another violation of common sense...

In fact, Destroy is the only option whose viability fits the narrative presented. If you talk to James Vega in your quarters, he will tell about how he destroyed acollector ship, but sacrificed most of the abducted colonists and his team in the process. There is no option to say anything other than James made the right call. Paragon or Renegade,Shepard says this was the right thing to do...

Lieutenant Victus doesn't want to sacrifice his men for the mission, and all Shepards talk him into it... Hackett sacrifices the entire second fleet, and Garrus has to make some extremely unpleasant tactical decisions...

Which begs the question:
Did Bioware really forget all this?

Nice write up and we can add the Leviathans themselves to the Control pattern. They tried to control everything, even life and death for their servants and they fell as a direct result of that desire.

[Zan51]

Hrothdane wrote...

Yet ANOTHER instance in which the game subtlely (or not so subtlely) hints that you might want to DESTROY the Reapers.

People might act like little things like word choice don't mean anything, but as someone that has spent a great deal of time around writers and doing my own creative writing, I can tell you that writers tend to be very specific with their word choices. A love of language and its subtleties is why many of us start writing in the first place. We tend to dislike reusing words too often unless we can't help it. I'm literally feeling guilty at how many times I used a form of the word "write" in this past paragraph.

You are so correct! I always like to think of myself as a Wordsmith because I do literally choose every single word on purpose that I write. I edit what I write several times, then there is the line and copy editing done by my Editor. It feels at times I am literally forging sentences and phrases like a blacksmith! I remember once on a Rework I had to insert what turned out to be 3 sentences into a paragraph to make some point more clear, and it took me a whole moth to get it the way I wanted it!

Yes, the choice of words is vital, and telling in the extreme, especially in such a concentrated medium as a game where you do not have vast quatities of words used to start with. And meh, like the word "said", the word "write" is practically invisible, our eyes scan over it easily. It doesn't cause us to suddenly stop and wonder why it's there.

Modifié par Zan51, 01 septembre 2012 - 09:01 .

[Hrothdane]

Zan51 wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...

Yet ANOTHER instance in which the game subtlely (or not so subtlely) hints that you might want to DESTROY the Reapers.

People might act like little things like word choice don't mean anything, but as someone that has spent a great deal of time around writers and doing my own creative writing, I can tell you that writers tend to be very specific with their word choices. A love of language and its subtleties is why many of us start writing in the first place. We tend to dislike reusing words too often unless we can't help it. I'm literally feeling guilty at how many times I used a form of the word "write" in this past paragraph.

You are so correct! I always like to think of myself as a Wordsmith because I do literally choose every single word on purpose that I write. I edit what I write several times, then there is the line and copy editing done by my Editor. It feels at times I am literally forging sentences and phrases like a blacksmith! I remember once on a Rework I had to insert what turned out to be 3 sentences into a paragraph to make some point more clear, and it took me a whole moth to get it the way I wanted it!

Yes, the choice of words is vital, and telling in the extreme, especially in such a concentrated medium as a game where you do not have vast quatities of words used to start with. And meh, like the word "said", the word "write" is practically invisible, our eyes scan over it easily. It doesn't cause us to suddenly stop and wonder why it's there.

You are a silly goose.

[RavenEyry]

I hardly ever write and I'm not good at it, but even I'm constantly re-evaluating my word choice and sentence structure.

[Carmin_Steele]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Control working out runs concurrent to base themes. Control of this type is doomed to folly in the Mass Effect universe, from Miranda and Tali's respective fathers, to the Illusive Man, Project Overlord, to the Salarians and their uplift program, to the Prothean separatists to the Prothean Empire itself. Any attempt to Control the Reapers has led to indoctrination. Shepard repeatedly chastises The Illusive Man's methods regardless of options picked, and your crew repeatedly calls him crazy for thinking he can control the reapers. The theme is prevalent. This level of overreach shouldn't be rewarded just because Shepard does it...

This is compounded by the fact that the Reapers themselves are a force of corruption. Legion describes their minds are incomprehensibly powerful. It isn't like the Nautilus whose power itself corrupts Nemo; The Reapers themselves warp minds. Shepard is hearing voices, seeing shadows on the screen, and he just shot Anderson against his will a few minutes ago. Now he's going to control all of the Reapers. That's insultingly stupid from a conceptual standpoint. The fact that Anderson was yelling warnings and the Catalyst says "you will lose everything you have" turns this option from incredible dumb to "Schmuck Bait". Control working out turns the whole thing into a "Violation of Common Sense"...

Then we have Synthesis and Idon't even know where to start. We've been fighting forced transhumanism for three games now. It spits in the face of the themes of working out our differences, self determination against fatalism, the socio-technological balance, and diversity. It alters all life in the galaxy under the assertion that there is something fundamentally wrong with us. It's beyondcynical...

This is again a recurring theme with unfortunate implications. The Reapers see themselves as the final evolution of life. Saren has been mentioned enough, but the Illusive Man is forcing transhumanism to bring humanity to the "apex of evolution", in his own words. The Collectors and the Zha'Til are examples of Reapers fusing man and machine, and then altering their genetic material at the deepest level to form something new. Pretty much your entire squad in Mass Effect 2 tells you rewriting the heretics is the same as killing them...

The way the Geth and EDI are presented has severe racist undertones for the assertion that synthetic life will inevitably destroy organic life. The Geth tackle hot buttonissues of slavery and basic civil rights, and the Geth Consensus had scenes straight out of Germany inthe 1940s, where martial law is declared and Quarians are shot for "harboring synthetics"...

It's established through talking to EDI that peace between the Reapers should not work. World Leaders are being called into Reaper super structures to negotiate peace, but it's a ruse to indoctrinate them and pacify the populace. The leaders will soon enact laws that prevent attacking the Reapers, which will again be done in the name of peace. EDI makes certain to reiterate this. When the master control reapers says "we need eachother to make this happen", it red flags the entire situation and makes it working out another violation of common sense...

In fact, Destroy is the only option whose viability fits the narrative presented. If you talk to James Vega in your quarters, he will tell about how he destroyed acollector ship, but sacrificed most of the abducted colonists and his team in the process. There is no option to say anything other than James made the right call. Paragon or Renegade,Shepard says this was the right thing to do...

Lieutenant Victus doesn't want to sacrifice his men for the mission, and all Shepards talk him into it... Hackett sacrifices the entire second fleet, and Garrus has to make some extremely unpleasant tactical decisions...

Which begs the question:
Did Bioware really forget all this?

Amazingly accurate and fairly concise, I like it. Sums everything up fairly poignantly in my opinion.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

RavenEyry wrote...

I hardly ever write and I'm not good at it, but even I'm constantly re-evaluating my word choice and sentence structure.

I constantly write in my free time, it is my primary hobby beyond gaming. I write stories, mostly fan fiction.

But to reflect what has been talked about in choosing words carefully I can relate to that, especially one character I wrote was a challenge in forging just the right sentences.

I had early on in one of my stories revealed that the main characters mother was still alive despite beliefs that she was dead, but I dident reval who it was or where she was.

Around the same time I revealed the existence of a adopted sister to my current villian who caused alot of pain in the past, but who was now missing.

And on top of that I had a female character working as assistant to a high ranking individual in the story who took a interest in the main characters children, helping them in a time of sorrow.

Yes all of these were one and the same character and the act of balancing hints for the first two with the actual appeareances of the third character was one of the greatest challenges I have had in writing. Balancing out small hints of her past, her connection to the main character and hints of her future goals without ever giving away she was anything but the assistant we saw was just fun.

[spotlessvoid]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
Nice write up and we can add the Leviathans themselves to the Control pattern. They tried to control everything, even life and death for their servants and they fell as a direct result of that desire.

Yeah Bill did a fantastic job.
And yes Leviathans are definitely another warning against control.

The question remains unanswered:
Could the same people who hammered home these themes really have so badly lost touch with their own creation in the end? It's pretty difficult to believe. Especially when IT fits perfectly with those themes.

It's crazy because the game practically screams IT at you, but Bioware's behavior screams crisis management. Really really poorly executed crisis management. I know it's tough to be emotionally removed from this and see things objectively , but I honestly don't see how someone can claim definitively that they know what Bioware is up to.

[RavenEyry]

spotlessvoid wrote...

The question remains unanswered:
Could the same people who hammered home these themes really have so badly lost touch with their own creation in the end? It's pretty difficult to believe. Especially when IT fits perfectly with those themes.

Well people who have played the games watching these themes hammered in still don't go destroy because the precious innocent geth don't deserve to die, even though they said they'd prefer to die than be subject to the old machines again.

[spotlessvoid]

Clearly I need sleep

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 01 septembre 2012 - 09:41 .

[spotlessvoid]

spotlessvoid wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

The question remains unanswered:
Could the same people who hammered home these themes really have so badly lost touch with their own creation in the end? It's pretty difficult to believe. Especially when IT fits perfectly with those themes.

Well people who have played the games watching these themes hammered in still don't go destroy because the precious innocent geth don't deserve to die, even though they said they'd prefer to die than be subject to the old machines again.

I'd have sacrificed humanity before choosing . It was early in the morning/very late at night and I was exhausted when I reached to catalyst. By the time it came down to the choices I was drained mentally physically and emotionally.  I fell for control. Sacrifice my soul to beat the Reapers and save everyone. Then the space magic came. I then replayed the end and picked destroy. That's when I became livid. I youtubed synthesis and raged for a bit. Thank goodness for acavyos and byne!

Now I wonder how the hell I missed it!

[RavenEyry]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Now I wonder how the hell I missed it!

I know, I didn't have any ideas beyond face value after I played but as soon as I read Byne's first post I was thinking "Yeah, I remember thinking that was wierd at the time... and that... and that. Wow, I think you've got something here."

[spotlessvoid]

Before I go, I'd like to make a suggestion:
Somebody needs to make-up their head and neck like a husk and do the whole head through a hole in the table prank. And film it !
GPS coordinates to the Keebler tree if you get the scream right!

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

RavenEyry wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Now I wonder how the hell I missed it!

I know, I didn't have any ideas beyond face value after I played but as soon as I read Byne's first post I was thinking "Yeah, I remember thinking that was wierd at the time... and that... and that. Wow, I think you've got something here."

I felt something was wrong from the moment I stood in the decision chamber, it was just to surreal, too "out of nowhere" but I could not put my finger on what it was...

Not until I found this thread the pieces fell into place.

[Harorrd]

theres one guy working on a project that will replace the endings with the ending the fans want, no more genocide, he will address the mindcontroll and lots of other things

[Rifneno]

Arashi08 wrote...

That's only seven, you forgot Seoul lol

LOL, damnit. I made that post in a hurry, had to leave in a few minutes and it took more than that to find a Youtube of Shepard's response to that pain in the ass. I never did find the renegade one where the Ascension was saved. Everyone REALLY likes to punch her.

demersel wrote...

True.
You all really forget my main point and motivation behind my decision - I didn't know what it was gonna do at the time. And neither did you. As far as I knew - by chosing to delay the attack on sovereign, to assist Destiny Ascention, i kight have given Soverign just enough time to open the citadel portal, and let countless reapers in, which would result id destruction of all the fleets that were there, and the consequently the death of all galactic civilizations. I did not know at the time that this particular choice doesn't have an effect on the out come oh this particular game.

Of course. I don't mean to come off as judgmental of the decision. I just like debating this stuff.

I might've picked the abandon them too if I wasn't so soft. I made the call based more on "there's 10,000 people on that ship, and that's 9,997 I won't condemn to death based on a chance." Even though I believe in hindsight it was tactically the better option, that didn't really enter into the equation for me. The Council? I had no ill will toward the salarian and asari but being in a leadership position they took the consequences of the Reapers upon themselves already. The turian is a jackass, of course. I wouldn't have killed him for lulz but I wouldn't be shredding any tears at his funeral. One thing that disappointed me I never found out in the books... was he a dick to everyone, or just humans? You only see the Council meet with anyone in the first book and in that one it was only humans (whom he was also a dick to, so it wasn't just Shepard). The later ones all take place after ME1 and they didn't want to invalidate anyone's canon unnecessarily by mentioning who was on the Council.

Speaking of which, I noticed something odd. One of the ANN things on BW's blog was written by Rear Admiral Mikhailovich. You remember him, that knucklebleeding mouthbreather that said a stealth frigade was "useless in combat" (a memo Sovereign obviously missed)? He's a war asset in ME3 if you sacrificed the Ascension, but if not then he's never mentioned. So presumably he was among the casualties of the Fifth Fleet if they saved the Ascension. And he's still on ANN? Does that mean that sacrificing the Ascension is canon?

Yes. I honestly thought that. I felt that it would be ironic kind of game over. Remember, at the time it was Just Mass Effect - the were no ME2 and ME3.
And even if take into consideration other games - in mass effect 2 - if you take to much time preparing for the Suicide mission - your kidnapped crew dies. And that was what has happened to me in my first playthrough - i did the reaper IFF to early, but then took my time preparing for the suicide mission, to ensure that i won't fail it. - naturally a watched Kelly Chambers melt.- ME1 ending taught me that there is now time factor. And there was. Furthermore, it's trigger - the reaper IFF mission, isn't very apperant. - So in ME2 i felt a bit cheated by the gamemechanic, and tha fact that it happened because of my knoweldge of ME1 game mechanic.

I agree. I hated and loved that mechanic at the same time. I loved it because I hate how the world (galaxy in this case) is at a standstill while you ****** around breeding giant colored chickens or whatever. I hated it because I had no idea that THIS was when time was of the essence. You can screw around all you like before the fourth recruitment mission and the Reaper IFF mission, it makes no difference. The Collectors don't abduct anymore colonies or anything. Time is only of the essence with your crew. The rules aren't consistant and that sucks.

I screwed up and lost my crew too on my first playthrough. I believe that, and rewriting the heretics is the only decisions I made different in my canon playthrough vs. my first playthrough going blind. And looking back, I have to wonder if they didn't make rewriting the heretics the bad choice because the great majority seemed to take that route.

RavenEyry wrote...

I like that way of thinking, usually how I did it the first time round. If I made a poor choice it upset me but I stuck with it.

I also stay in character. One of my many reasons I choose destroy it's because it's what Shepard would do. Even if I preferred the control or synthesis cutscene or implications or whatever, I still choose destroy because my Shepard hasn't watched the endings on youtube before getting to the choice. I don't metagame basically.

If I went in without knowing IT, my Shepard being totally fooled, I'd have picked control. I'd never be able to live with myself having sacrificed the geth and EDI, so I might as well die anyway. Then I'd promptly fly each one of those bastards into the nearest star or black hole before I had the chance to go mad with power.

And I'd be a husk. Opps!