80611 réponses à ce sujet

[BansheeOwnage]

Rifneno wrote...

So whoever's going through the Leviathan files, especially that bloody nose thing... this is a longshot but...  does the bloody nose re-appear at the choice-o-matic when you pick destroy?  Like the carnifex turns into a predator?

I think she said it still applies even after the end sequence in both vanilla and EC if that's what you're asking. I might hae read that wrong.

Also, to not post twice: Thanks FFZero

Edit: On top again!

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 01 septembre 2012 - 07:09 .

[paxxton]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

paxxton wrote...

So?

So what? Crazy thought: What if the end sequence isn't an indoctrination attempt in the same sense we were thinking, but instead it was Harbinger assuming control of Shepard like the Leviathans. Shepard would never suspect what was happening unless Harbinger revealed himself. Just like Shepard thought Ann in the leviathan sequence was actually her until leviathan revealed itself. This would also allow Shep to remember the encounter in destroy. It is important to note the leviathans have great controllablility in their indoctrination; Shepard remembers the sequence even though none of the others did. [/Crazy thought]

I was refering to my question about webcasts and live chats from PAX.

How does it differ from the classic IT?

[Dwailing]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

paxxton wrote...

So?

So what? Crazy thought: What if the end sequence isn't an indoctrination attempt in the same sense we were thinking, but instead it was Harbinger assuming control of Shepard like the Leviathans. Shepard would never suspect what was happening unless Harbinger revealed himself. Just like Shepard thought Ann in the leviathan sequence was actually her until leviathan revealed itself. This would also allow Shep to remember the encounter in destroy. It is important to note the leviathans have great controllablility in their indoctrination; Shepard remembers the sequence even though none of the others did. [/Crazy thought]

I had speculated that Harby might have some version of Levvy's control bouncing around in that giant synthetic cuttlefish body of his.  Since he's the first Reaper, it would make sense that he would have that in addition to the more "refined" indoctrination used by later Reapers.

[BansheeOwnage]

jgibson14352 wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

paxxton wrote...

So?

So what? Crazy thought: What if the end sequence isn't an indoctrination attempt in the same sense we were thinking, but instead it was Harbinger assuming control of Shepard like the Leviathans. Shepard would never suspect what was happening unless Harbinger revealed himself. Just like Shepard thought Ann in the leviathan sequence was actually her until leviathan revealed itself. This would also allow Shep to remember the encounter in destroy. It is important to note the leviathans have great controllablility in their indoctrination; Shepard remembers the sequence even though none of the others did. [/Crazy thought]

if harbinger had leviathan indoctrination then harbinger would have no need to give shepard the choice-o-matic test. hed already have complete control over his body

Well they did have a sequence planned originally to have Shepard lose control of her body. But regardless, I think Harby may have somewhat of a middleground when it comes to enthrallment and indoctrination. Pure speculation.

[BansheeOwnage]

paxxton wrote...

How does it differ from the classic IT?

Simply the method of control. Read Dwailing's post.

[paxxton]

Dwailing wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

paxxton wrote...

So?

So what? Crazy thought: What if the end sequence isn't an indoctrination attempt in the same sense we were thinking, but instead it was Harbinger assuming control of Shepard like the Leviathans. Shepard would never suspect what was happening unless Harbinger revealed himself. Just like Shepard thought Ann in the leviathan sequence was actually her until leviathan revealed itself. This would also allow Shep to remember the encounter in destroy. It is important to note the leviathans have great controllablility in their indoctrination; Shepard remembers the sequence even though none of the others did. [/Crazy thought]

I had speculated that Harby might have some version of Levvy's control bouncing around in that giant synthetic cuttlefish body of his.  Since he's the first Reaper, it would make sense that he would have that in addition to the more "refined" indoctrination used by later Reapers.

But no one thought otherwise. It was always considered as a dream/hallucination.

[BansheeOwnage]

paxxton wrote...

But no one thought otherwise. It was always considered as a dream/hallucination.

We're not saying it's not one. We're just discussing the differences in method of control. Reaper indoctrination vs. Leviathan enthrallment.

[Arashi08]

Rifneno wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

so please tell me that guy that was spamming random letters was reported for spam...I certainly reported him.

But as for the good news.

YAY! finally got the N7 Fury! =) Alas, the Shadow still eludes me =(

Congratulations.  The Shadow's overrated anyway IMO.  It's fun to play a phantom for a while, but it's only really good against Cerberus.  So-so against geth, weak against reapers because there's too many units that will make you quickly regret a shadow strike.  And like any melee character, it's at a noticable handicap on gold/platinum.

So whoever's going through the Leviathan files, especially that bloody nose thing... this is a longshot but...  does the bloody nose re-appear at the choice-o-matic when you pick destroy?  Like the carnifex turns into a predator?

maybe, it may depend on what weapons you give her and what perks you put points into.  The Shadow might be effective if played similar to a vanguard, especially with the Reegar Carbine, but since I have yet to get the Shadow I have yet to experiment lol.

I don't play higher than silver anyway, at least not until I get my Widow to a higher level.  my Quarian Inflitrator is my best class but I feel so much less effective when I can't headshot enemies and kill them instantly...and considering how often I have to use my medigel and that emergency pack on silver I'll likely eat through all ym supplies on Gold lol.

I did hear someone mention the bloody nose returning during the ending, but idk if the events are related.

[paxxton]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

paxxton wrote...

But no one thought otherwise. It was always considered as a dream/hallucination.

We're not saying it's not one. We're just discussing the differences in method of control. Reaper indoctrination vs. Leviathan enthrallment.

Yes, if Harbinger is a Leviathan Reaper (the essence of that race), it makes perfect sense he has that ability. There was tension between Literalists and ITist over how Harbinger could induce the trance. I think it's now settled.

[BansheeOwnage]

Arashi08 wrote...

maybe, it may depend on what weapons you give her and what perks you put points into.  The Shadow might be effective if played similar to a vanguard, especially with the Reegar Carbine, but since I have yet to get the Shadow I have yet to experiment lol.

I don't play higher than silver anyway, at least not until I get my Widow to a higher level.  my Quarian Inflitrator is my best class but I feel so much less effective when I can't headshot enemies and kill them instantly...and considering how often I have to use my medigel and that emergency pack on silver I'll likely eat through all ym supplies on Gold lol.

Here my N7 Shadow guide in case you want some advice. Just my opinion though. There are multiple setups that can be good.

Well I've tried a couple of different things, but this one seems the best to me.
Upgrade Cloak:
Evolution 4: first for duration (to get close to people/you don't need a weapon damage boost)
5. Melee damage (you have a sword/Shadow Strike counts as a melee attack)
6. Bonus Power (this enables you to use Shadow Strike once without breaking cloak and also gives you a Shadow Strike damage boost. Very useful because the enemy does not turn around and kill you./You won't have a sniper rifle so that one is useless)
Skip out of Electric Slash.
Upgrade Shadow Strike:
4: Damage (This is a very powerful attack. I find it is better to compliment a power's strengths rather than compensate for its weaknesses/you don't need the damage protection because you can SS while cloaked)
5: Electric Damage (This will allow you to finish off some of the tougher units if your SS doesn't do the job/you will have very good power recharge so you don't need recharge)
6: Damage (Read rank 4's reasoning)
Upgrade N7 Shadow:
4: Power Damage (This increases your SS’s damage)
5: Power Damage (Same reasoning as 4)
6: Weapon damage (You will not need weight capacity because you should have 200% recharge or very close.)
Upgrade Sword Mastery:
4: Sword Damage (This is what this class is for/a health/shield boost isn't very useful here)
5: Martial Artist: (You will be almost exclusively using your sword/generally more useful than shield-recharge/you don't need movement speed because SS can take you anywhere)
6: Shield Damage: (The vast majority of the enemies you will fight have shields/barriers/it is often suicide to attempt swording heavy-armoured units)
As for weapons, I use a Eagle here, for one very specific use: Killing Guardians. Yes, you can Shadow Strike them, but there are often too many to do that. I would use the pistol melee stunner on it to increase melee/Shadow Strike damage. For the second mod I’d use the AP mod. That way you can shoot through Guardian shields. This also makes it more practical against heavy units, as using your sword is a risky move on them. The Eagle IV at least will give you +200% recharge speed without pistol lightweight materials.  Any other pistol that has +200% recharge works too.

Tips: Shadow Strike will kill most of the lighter units in one go, and you get one free one with cloak on. You also get a melee damage boost with cloak on, so use this to make heavy melee one hit kill on some units. A sword combo (light melees) does about the same damage as a heavy melee but gives you more room to manoeuvre. I.E. Use heavy melee on light units (Multiple Husks) and use light melee on heavier units (Marauders/Centurions). It's counterintuitive, but the light melee also staggers them, so they can't attack you while you're doing it. Using flips also helps in CQB if you remember to use them. Actually, if set up properly it will kill a husk in one light melee and pretty much everything else in one heavy melee. Use the Eagle to kill Swarmers/pop Ravager sacs/shoot off the Brute's shoulder pieces/blow up the Atlas' codpiece (I know lol).
This is a team-based class and it's not terribly good against heavy-armoured units. Prepare your other team members with better anti-armour offenses.
Remember there is more than one way to make an effective class, but this is one I find works very well.

Oh and use Hydraulic Joints or your best melee damage boostin gear obviously.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 01 septembre 2012 - 07:33 .

[BansheeOwnage]

Back on topic: What if the reapers indoctrinated a leviathan?

[paxxton]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Back on topic: What if the reapers indoctrinated a leviathan?

Not sure if possible. Would be bonkers.

Modifié par paxxton, 01 septembre 2012 - 07:36 .

[Dwailing]

paxxton wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

paxxton wrote...

But no one thought otherwise. It was always considered as a dream/hallucination.

We're not saying it's not one. We're just discussing the differences in method of control. Reaper indoctrination vs. Leviathan enthrallment.

Yes, if Harbinger is a Leviathan Reaper (the essence of that race), it makes perfect sense he has that ability. There was tension between Literalists and ITist over how Harbinger could induce the trance. I think it's now settled.

Harby uses a version of Levvy's enthrallment to force Shepard's mind out of his body, rendering his body technically dead, explaining the breath.  Then, he creates a realm filled with twists on things Shepard has seen before, culminating in the decision chamber, which somewhat resembles the area around the Conduit and the Conduit itself.  It's at this point that Shepard mind is able to fight back.  Maybe killing the image of TIM weakened the hold of Harby on Shep's mind.  That could explain it.  Anyway, Harby decides to pretend to be the "Intelligence" that the Leviathans had designed, and presents Shepard with a choice.  A choice which leads either to Shepard giving in and being turned into a... thrall?  Indoctrinated person?  Something different?  I don't know.

[paxxton]

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

paxxton wrote...

But no one thought otherwise. It was always considered as a dream/hallucination.

We're not saying it's not one. We're just discussing the differences in method of control. Reaper indoctrination vs. Leviathan enthrallment.

Yes, if Harbinger is a Leviathan Reaper (the essence of that race), it makes perfect sense he has that ability. There was tension between Literalists and ITist over how Harbinger could induce the trance. I think it's now settled.

Harby uses a version of Levvy's enthrallment to force Shepard's mind out of his body, rendering his body technically dead, explaining the breath.  Then, he creates a realm filled with twists on things Shepard has seen before, culminating in the decision chamber, which somewhat resembles the area around the Conduit and the Conduit itself.  It's at this point that Shepard mind is able to fight back.  Maybe killing the image of TIM weakened the hold of Harby on Shep's mind.  That could explain it.  Anyway, Harby decides to pretend to be the "Intelligence" that the Leviathans had designed, and presents Shepard with a choice.  A choice which leads either to Shepard giving in and being turned into a... thrall?  Indoctrinated person?  Something different?  I don't know.

What Harbinger is doing may be even a mix of enthrallment and indoctrination. Through the former you can radically speed up the latter without adverse effects like mental decay.

[BansheeOwnage]

paxxton wrote...

What Harbinger is doing may be even a mix of enthrallment and indoctrination. Through the former you can radically speed up the latter without adverse effects like mental decay.

Yeah, that's what I said.

[Lokanaiya]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

maybe, it may depend on what weapons you give her and what perks you put points into.  The Shadow might be effective if played similar to a vanguard, especially with the Reegar Carbine, but since I have yet to get the Shadow I have yet to experiment lol.

I don't play higher than silver anyway, at least not until I get my Widow to a higher level.  my Quarian Inflitrator is my best class but I feel so much less effective when I can't headshot enemies and kill them instantly...and considering how often I have to use my medigel and that emergency pack on silver I'll likely eat through all ym supplies on Gold lol.

Here my N7 Shadow guide in case you want some advice. Just my opinion though. There are multiple setups that can be good.

Well I've tried a couple of different things, but this one seems the best to me.
Upgrade Cloak:
Evolution 4: first for duration (to get close to people/you don't need a weapon damage boost)
5. Melee damage (you have a sword/Shadow Strike counts as a melee attack)
6. Bonus Power (this enables you to use Shadow Strike once without breaking cloak and also gives you a Shadow Strike damage boost. Very useful because the enemy does not turn around and kill you./You won't have a sniper rifle so that one is useless)
Skip out of Electric Slash.
Upgrade Shadow Strike:
4: Damage (This is a very powerful attack. I find it is better to compliment a power's strengths rather than compensate for its weaknesses/you don't need the damage protection because you can SS while cloaked)
5: Electric Damage (This will allow you to finish off some of the tougher units if your SS doesn't do the job/you will have very good power recharge so you don't need recharge)
6: Damage (Read rank 4's reasoning)
Upgrade N7 Shadow:
4: Power Damage (This increases your SS’s damage)
5: Power Damage (Same reasoning as 4)
6: Weapon damage (You will not need weight capacity because you should have 200% recharge or very close.)
Upgrade Sword Mastery:
4: Sword Damage (This is what this class is for/a health/shield boost isn't very useful here)
5: Martial Artist: (You will be almost exclusively using your sword/generally more useful than shield-recharge/you don't need movement speed because SS can take you anywhere)
6: Shield Damage: (The vast majority of the enemies you will fight have shields/barriers/it is often suicide to attempt swording heavy-armoured units)
As for weapons, I use a Eagle here, for one very specific use: Killing Guardians. Yes, you can Shadow Strike them, but there are often too many to do that. I would use the pistol melee stunner on it to increase melee/Shadow Strike damage. For the second mod I’d use the AP mod. That way you can shoot through Guardian shields. This also makes it more practical against heavy units, as using your sword is a risky move on them. The Eagle IV at least will give you +200% recharge speed without pistol lightweight materials.  Any other pistol that has +200% recharge works too.

Tips: Shadow Strike will kill most of the lighter units in one go, and you get one free one with cloak on. You also get a melee damage boost with cloak on, so use this to make heavy melee one hit kill on some units. A sword combo (light melees) does about the same damage as a heavy melee but gives you more room to manoeuvre. I.E. Use heavy melee on light units (Multiple Husks) and use light melee on heavier units (Marauders/Centurions). It's counterintuitive, but the light melee also staggers them, so they can't attack you while you're doing it. Using flips also helps in CQB if you remember to use them. Actually, if set up properly it will kill a husk in one light melee and pretty much everything else in one heavy melee. Use the Eagle to kill Swarmers/pop Ravager sacs/shoot off the Brute's shoulder pieces/blow up the Atlas' codpiece (I know lol).
This is a team-based class and it's not terribly good against heavy-armoured units. Prepare your other team members with better anti-armour offenses.
Remember there is more than one way to make an effective class, but this is one I find works very well.

Oh and use Hydraulic Joints or your best melee damage boostin gear obviously.

Nice guide, but I'd skip rank 6 Sword Mastery because the only thing it affects is light/heavy melees and not SS, and it's often dangerous to use those since they take a fair amount of time and your best defene is not being there when something shoots at you. Also, ES is actually pretty useful since it's the only way for a Shadow to hit multiple enemies at once.

Modifié par Lokanaiya, 01 septembre 2012 - 07:52 .

[BansheeOwnage]

What's Bioware doing?
1. Never intended IT, will never implement it.
2. Never intended IT, will implement it.
3. Always intended IT, will never implement it.
4. Always intended IT, will implement it.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

1. I honestly have no idea how this could have happened. It would have actually taken a completely different writing team to do the end sequence literally.
2. Good. They're seeing sense because right now that seems like the only way to save themselves. Still unlikely though.
3. This doesn't even make sense. If they intended IT (as in multiple interpretations/artistic integrity) then they should give up their ambiguity and just go with IT because it will save them.
4. Awesome, but a lot of people are running out of patience. I will wait until the DLC cycle is done, but that's just me.

Long story short, Bioware is in trouble. I want them to do what saves them and makes fans happy. Right now, that's IT. I bet all but the most hardcore literalists would appreciate it ingame. They'll be like "Yeah, I guess that does make sense." Most literalists are ITers without knowing. You don't have to believe BW intended it to support it/see that it makes sense.

Your opinions on the 4 options? Did I miss any?

[Dwailing]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

paxxton wrote...

What Harbinger is doing may be even a mix of enthrallment and indoctrination. Through the former you can radically speed up the latter without adverse effects like mental decay.

Yeah, that's what I said.

Then I guess we're all on the same page.  I wonder what Byne, Arian, etc. would think of this.  I think they might approve.  I mean, I like to think that I'm pretty good at telling the difference between what's possible and what's crazy, and this seems possible, at least to me.

[Jere85]

Are there any links to PAX stuff?

[RavenEyry]

@Banshee

5. Do a little dance, make a little love, get down tonight. Game? What game? We're just partying man!

Modifié par RavenEyry, 01 septembre 2012 - 07:56 .

[BansheeOwnage]

Lokanaiya wrote...

Nice guide, but I'd skip rank 6 Sword Mastery because the only thing it affects is light/heavy melees and not SS, and ES is actually pretty useful since it's the only way for a Shadow to hit multiple enemies at once.

Thanks, but Sword Mastery does in fact up SS damage. SS says "receives damage bonuses from melee" or something. If you don't believe me, just look at the damage in SS category, then uprgrade Sword Mastery and look at it. It will almost double. And the reason I don't use ES is mostly because the others are more useful/essential. ES doesn't really suit the kit either, considering it is a kit that uses asari tactics. Hit and run. Cloak, take out one unit undetected, finish off the surrounding ones, cloak, then repeat. Leave it to other teammates to kill hoardes. ES is also ranged, with is the opposite of eveything else in the kit. Compensation is generally worse than complementing.

[Dwailing]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

What's Bioware doing?
1. Never intended IT, will never implement it.
2. Never intended IT, will implement it.
3. Always intended IT, will never implement it.
4. Always intended IT, will implement it.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

1. I honestly have no idea how this could have happened. It would have actually taken a completely different writing team to do the end sequence literally.
2. Good. They're seeing sense because right now that seems like the only way to save themselves. Still unlikely though.
3. This doesn't even make sense. If they intended IT (as in multiple interpretations/artistic integrity) then they should give up their ambiguity and just go with IT because it will save them.
4. Awesome, but a lot of people are running out of patience. I will wait until the DLC cycle is done, but that's just me.

Long story short, Bioware is in trouble. I want them to do what saves them and makes fans happy. Right now, that's IT. I bet all but the most hardcore literalists would appreciate it ingame. They'll be like "Yeah, I guess that does make sense." Most literalists are ITers without knowing. You don't have to believe BW intended it to support it/see that it makes sense.

Your opinions on the 4 options? Did I miss any?

My money is on either 2 or 4, and I definitely lean towards 4.  I've always thought that this was BioWare's intention from the beginning.  There are too many hints towards IT in game that it simply CAN'T be explained as bad/lazy writting without requiring a MASSIVE stretch of the imagination.

[BansheeOwnage]

RavenEyry wrote...

@Banshee

5. Do a little dance, make a little love, get down tonight. Game? What game? We're just partying man!

Lol. Epiphany : This thread has become like Mass Effect. Now I'm here primarily for the characters people, and speculating is secondary. Who else?

[RavenEyry]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

@Banshee

5. Do a little dance, make a little love, get down tonight. Game? What game? We're just partying man!

Lol. Epiphany : This thread has become like Mass Effect. Now I'm here primarily for the characters people, and speculating is secondary. Who else?

Same. I already know everything there is to know about the theory and have my own detailed interpretation of everything (though I haven't fully incorporated leviathan since I've not played it, my in depth knowledge comes from the thread.) I like hanging around because I've nowhere better to hang on the internet.

[BansheeOwnage]

Dwailing wrote...

My money is on either 2 or 4, and I definitely lean towards 4.  I've always thought that this was BioWare's intention from the beginning.  There are too many hints towards IT in game that it simply CAN'T be explained as bad/lazy writting without requiring a MASSIVE stretch of the imagination.

Whenever I have doubts, they are crushed because of the masses of evidence in our favour. I hope we're right...

Here's another thing: If Bioware is too stubborn to implement IT (options 1 or 3) they're just digging their own graves. Some sort of masochistic suicide plan or something. And I doubt EA would want to not make money...