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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#17251
FFZero

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byne wrote...

FFZero wrote...

jgibson14352 wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Monday September 3
Title: Reaching the Fans
Time: Mon 11:30 am Location: 209 / 210 / 211 – Hilton (Length: 1)
Description: You can’t make everyone happy all the time…but what if it’s your job? Come hear how community managers keep their fans happy and engaged. Chris Priestly participating.

That's about us, among others. Posted Image

Should be... interesting.

no, probably not. the only fans who go to the bioware conventions are the kiss asses who liked the literal endings (gag). i guaruntee its going to be "HOW DO I GET A JOB FOR THE F*CKING MILLIONTH TIME" and even stupider stuff about female turians that any real fan has already seen.



So the people from this thread who went to Gamescom and talked to Jessica and Chris are kiss asses who liked the literal endings?

I went to Gamescom and the last time I checked I hated the literal endings. I can’t speak for them but I’m pretty sure it’s the same for Megumi and Estebanus and others who were there.


I think he meant the people who got to ask questions during the panels.


Meh it’s late and I misread it. I have to agree about some of the questions asked being a bit daft, but I have to disagree about the female turian thing. We haven’t seen a canon female turian design yet, you can’t take what’s in the comics as canon since they’ve butchered certain alien designs in some of the comics. Need I bring up the monstrosity that passes for a turian in issue 2 of homeworlds?

#17252
BansheeOwnage

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FFZero wrote...

Did you hear about my DLC idea? Female Turian Infiltrator. Cloak, Flashbang Grenades, something else. Very turian. And a good way to bring back FB nades. They also brought back Morinth's domination power in Levy. Protheans in MP anyone?

The next salarian they add should be female too.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 01 septembre 2012 - 11:25 .


#17253
byne

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BansheeOwnage wrote...

FFZero wrote...

Did you hear about my DLC idea? Female Turian Infiltrator. Cloak, Flashbang Grenades, something else. Very turian. And a good way to bring back FB nades. They also brought back Morinth's domination power in Levy. Protheans in MP anyone?

The next salarian they add should be female too.


If they add protheans to MP, they should also add the collectors as MP enemies, and do it in conjunction with some kind of single player DLC dealing with the protheans and collectors.

I mean, I'm sure there are more frozen protheans somewhere, and the Reapers still have seeker swarms (as used in the Miracle of Palaven), so they likely have more collectors somewhere.

Adding a salarian female would be pretty stupid, considering how rare they are.

Modifié par byne, 01 septembre 2012 - 11:29 .


#17254
UrgentArchengel

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Wow, it's been a real long time since I've been here. Felt like checking in after I watched the new IT documentary. Any really massive shake-ups found? I've got that itch for finding the truth again.

#17255
FFZero

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BansheeOwnage wrote...

FFZero wrote...

Did you hear about my DLC idea? Female Turian Infiltrator. Cloak, Flashbang Grenades, something else. Very turian. And a good way to bring back FB nades. They also brought back Morinth's domination power in Levy. Protheans in MP anyone?

The next salarian they add should be female too.


Sounds like a good idea for the female turian, the female salarian idea not so much. The Salarian race is 90% male according to the codex so they can’t really afford for females to be on the frontlines.

As for the Protheans being in MP, I don't know, it would kind of invalidate Javik as a character if  protheans suddenly pop up all over the place. The collectors being added as an enemy though would be good. We really need some new enemies or game modes in MP, it's getting rather boring now.

Modifié par FFZero, 01 septembre 2012 - 11:32 .


#17256
BansheeOwnage

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byne wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

FFZero wrote...

Did you hear about my DLC idea? Female Turian Infiltrator. Cloak, Flashbang Grenades, something else. Very turian. And a good way to bring back FB nades. They also brought back Morinth's domination power in Levy. Protheans in MP anyone?

The next salarian they add should be female too.


If they add protheans to MP, they should also add the collectors as MP enemies, and do it in conjunction with some kind of single player DLC dealing with the protheans and collectors.

I mean, I'm sure there are more frozen protheans somewhere, and the Reapers still have seeker swarms (as used in the Miracle of Palaven), so they likely have more collectors somewhere.

Adding a salarian female would be pretty stupid, considering how rare they are.

That's what I've been hoping for. Added protheans characters/collector enemies as well as the same thing in SP at the same time would be epic. I think finding more frozen protheans is much less cheesy than only finding one.

Prothean fleet reporting.

#17257
BansheeOwnage

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FFZero wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

FFZero wrote...

Did you hear about my DLC idea? Female Turian Infiltrator. Cloak, Flashbang Grenades, something else. Very turian. And a good way to bring back FB nades. They also brought back Morinth's domination power in Levy. Protheans in MP anyone?

The next salarian they add should be female too.


Sounds like a good idea for the female turian, the female salarian idea not so much. The Salarian race is 90% male according to the codex so they can’t really afford for females to be on the frontlines.

As for the Protheans being in MP, I don't know, it would kind of invalidate Javik as a character if  protheans suddenly pop up all over the place. The collectors being added as an enemy though would be good. We really need some new enemies or game modes in MP, it's getting rather boring now.

Okay fine I get it. No female salarians. Posted Image Anyway, someone wrote once about how it would still make Javik really important, but since I can't find it, I'll sum it up.

Javik is still the Shepard of his cycle. His significance is still intact. As well, having him lead the protheans in the final battle would give more depth to that, I think.

#17258
BansheeOwnage

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UrgentArchengel wrote...

Wow, it's been a real long time since I've been here. Felt like checking in after I watched the new IT documentary. Any really massive shake-ups found? I've got that itch for finding the truth again.

Leviathan.

#17259
xbb1024

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Rifneno wrote...

Spectreownage wrote...

k thanks, now can anyone tell me how to be a bigger troll?


Movie theater popcorn is extremely high in fat.  In fact, try as much butter and cheese as you can in general.


Depends on where you are. Over here, with all this low fat/low carb nonsense, the paper flavored popcorn is quite popular.

#17260
BansheeOwnage

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Rifneno wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

Shame the Reapers don't have some obvious weakness that we use everyday lol.


I saw War of the Wolds the other day and the only thing I could think was "So that's a Quarian Reaper..."  :mellow:

That's funny. Actually, they kind of do have a weakness. Leviathans. They can kill them with their minds, yet there is no impact on the final battle.




                                                                                           ...

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 01 septembre 2012 - 11:47 .


#17261
N7L4D

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SwobyJ wrote...

Ann at the end of Leviathan sounds ok... but also a bit out of it.

"We all have our part to play."

Is Synthesis making the Reapers win, and Control making the Leviathans win?

Ugh so confusing.



Hmmm well you know what I'll just repost this, I did talk to couple of you guys(thanks), so the flaws are still there, I'm wondering if I can flesh this out into something, or you guys can help, or it will lead to nothing and I'm going far off base lol, though I do think I may try to go deeper in this on my own maybe to see if it works together either way hahaha, unless it's really shot down bad, which may happen for the many who haven't read yet lol well here I go

N7L4D wrote...
I have a theory that the illusive man and his resources(just like the rachni) are being indoctrinated by levy, that's why reaper forces attacked them, I also think the struggle in shepards mind at the end could be, harbinger(starkidt) levy(TIM) Anderson(shep fighting it off) I think levy wants to take control of the reapers, so they can make it back to the apex of evolution, harby, well he kinda is trying something like synthesis for a while, shep renegade or paragon has always had the goal of destroying the reapers, it's just theory, that I'd bet has been talked about before, whether it has or hasn't, what do you guys think of that?



#17262
DoomsdayDevice

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As for conversations supporting destroy, this is easily the best:

Shepard: If you had saved them all, would things have worked out better?
Vega: I... I don't know. I don't think so.
Shepard: The right choice is usually not the easy one.

http://www.youtube.c...Q6cnpeIY#t=162s

If that's not foreshadowing the end, then what is?

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 01 septembre 2012 - 11:54 .


#17263
BansheeOwnage

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DoomsdayDevice wrote...

As for conversations supporting destroy, this is easily the best:

Shepard: If you'd saved them all, would things have worked out better?
Vega: I... I don't know. I don't think so.
Shepard: The right choice is usually not the easy one.

http://www.youtube.c...Q6cnpeIY#t=162s

If that's not foreshadowing the end, then what is?

Hello Doomsday. I've been thinking a lot about conversations like that one. All 3 games are filled with them. Either Bioware intended IT, different writing team took over, or the original team had amnesia or something.

#17264
BansheeOwnage

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N7L4D wrote...
I have a theory that the illusive man and his resources(just like the rachni) are being indoctrinated by levy, that's why reaper forces attacked them, I also think the struggle in shepards mind at the end could be, harbinger(starkidt) levy(TIM) Anderson(shep fighting it off) I think levy wants to take control of the reapers, so they can make it back to the apex of evolution, harby, well he kinda is trying something like synthesis for a while, shep renegade or paragon has always had the goal of destroying the reapers, it's just theory, that I'd bet has been talked about before, whether it has or hasn't, what do you guys think of that?

Well I already responded, but seeing as no one else is. I don't think TIM is indoctrinated by Leviathan because it uses direct control. I do think it's a cool idea that TIM is the Leviathan is Shep's head. Posted Image

#17265
N7L4D

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DoomsdayDevice wrote...

As for conversations supporting destroy, this is easily the best:

Shepard: If you had saved them all, would things have worked out better?
Vega: I... I don't know. I don't think so.
Shepard: The right choice is usually not the easy one.

http://www.youtube.c...Q6cnpeIY#t=162s

If that's not foreshadowing the end, then what is?


yeah i loved that vid its great, really helpful

#17266
TheConstantOne

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Alright, I have some new speculation for everyone. I've been taking a look at the Crucible again and have some thoughts. I will be the first to admit that this idea is pretty far out there but...here it goes.

First off, let's look at how the Leviathans seem to know more about the Crucible than they let on. The eye zoom in and pause in their answer (the only response to Shepard where they don't have an immediate reply) indicates that something is probably up. They could be telling the truth about not knowing what it will do when fired, however. I'll explain more in a moment.

Now let's also consider that the Crucible seems to require the use of many VI systems...perhaps even very subtle AI. Someone mentioned many posts back that there was an asari scientist asset looking at nanocircuitry that corrects VI malfunctions. Further more, the Reaper Brain can be used in the Crucibles' construction to aid its function. The Reaper Brain's immense processing power is not typical of a VI nor was the system designed to be anything less than an AI.

The big idea: The Crucible could be the beginning construction of a system poweful to create either an AI on the scale of the Intelligence or a counter program to this AI. The Leviathans could recognize the construction's purpose and thus want to hide that fact, but they could also be genuinely unaware of what such an AI merger/code correction will due to the Intelligence.

The Crucible Intelligence, let's call it the CI, could need an organic mind to be complete. Once the Crucible docked with the Citadel, Shepard's proximity to the control panel could have led in him being chosen as the CI's personality and its goals would thus be his goals. In this interpretation, Shepard would lapse into a dream state and his actions there determine what the CI's interactions with Starbinger will be. Starbinger would likely lie to try to make his case as he wants to preserve as much of his original programming as possible. The options would then become as follows:

Destroy: Any AI system with the Intelligence marked in its code somewhere is annihilated. This would spare EDI and the geth, however destroying some mass effect technology is plausible given the the Crucible could cause a dark energy overload.

Control: The CI merges with Stabinger and becomes the Godshep AI

Synthesis: The CI uses Shepard's DNA's variability to create Reaper tech that creates synthetic-organic hybrids (though not necessarily husks as we know them.)

The big catch here is, if what I'm saying is true, Shepard's body could survive in all 3 endings despite what we're shown. This has...interesting implications.

Anyway, as crazy as the above idea is I felt that I should share it and see what happens...thoughts?

#17267
DoomsdayDevice

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BansheeOwnage wrote...


DoomsdayDevice wrote...

As for conversations supporting destroy, this is easily the best:

Shepard: If you'd saved them all, would things have worked out better?
Vega: I... I don't know. I don't think so.
Shepard: The right choice is usually not the easy one.

http://www.youtube.c...Q6cnpeIY#t=162s

If that's not foreshadowing the end, then what is?

Hello Doomsday. I've been thinking a lot about conversations like that one. All 3 games are filled with them. Either Bioware intended IT, different writing team took over, or the original team had amnesia or something.


Hey Banshee. =)

Yeah, especially the third game is full of allies telling you to give the Reapers no quarter, that wanting to control them is an illusion, etc. Can't be coincidence. Of course they intended IT. =P

Also, I'd love to play some multiplayer with you guys again some time, as I really enjoyed my games with you, but alas, my gold expired, so it'll have to wait until I have some money to renew.

What's the consensus on Leviathan here? (If any)

I thought it really helps IT, because it establishes how Indoctrination/mind control abilities can actually change the victim's visual perception. It even says "your memories give voice to our words", which supports the Citadel looking like things from Shepard's past.

Also:  "Your own species could be destroyed by a single thought." Yeah, literally.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 02 septembre 2012 - 12:03 .


#17268
ZerebusPrime

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So it finally hit me today that the galaxy search filter bit in Bryson's office was in fact a tongue-in-cheek jab at speculation and us IT'ers in general. The game has us using intelligent guesses posited by experts in the lore of the Mass Effect universe to build and overall working theory. Some of the speculations pay off (Leviathans need eezo) and some of the speculations do not (the Rachni probably weren't enthralled by the Leviathans, sorry, but it was a good sounding idea).

#17269
BansheeOwnage

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DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Hey Banshee. =)

Yeah, especially the third game is full of allies telling you to give the Reapers no quarter, that wanting to control them is an illusion, etc. Can't be coincidence. Of course they intended IT. =P

Also, I'd love to play some multiplayer with you guys again some time, as I really enjoyed my games with you, but alas, my gold expired, so it'll have to wait until I have some money to renew.

What's the consensus on Leviathan here? (If any)

I thought it really helps IT, because it establishes how Indoctrination/mind control abilities can actually change the victim's visual perception. It even says "your memories give voice to our words", which supports the Citadel looking like things from Shepard's past.

Also:  "Your own species could be destroyed by a single thought." Yeah, literally.

I think the consensus is it helped IT a lot. Everyone but the hardcore literalists agree. I've seen many open minded literalists rethink their stances about IT because Leviathan give it more premise. Like the Geth consensus mission. Now we have 2 missions (if Leviathan is one mission) to base it on/prepare ourselves with.

#17270
byne

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BansheeOwnage wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Hey Banshee. =)

Yeah, especially the third game is full of allies telling you to give the Reapers no quarter, that wanting to control them is an illusion, etc. Can't be coincidence. Of course they intended IT. =P

Also, I'd love to play some multiplayer with you guys again some time, as I really enjoyed my games with you, but alas, my gold expired, so it'll have to wait until I have some money to renew.

What's the consensus on Leviathan here? (If any)

I thought it really helps IT, because it establishes how Indoctrination/mind control abilities can actually change the victim's visual perception. It even says "your memories give voice to our words", which supports the Citadel looking like things from Shepard's past.

Also:  "Your own species could be destroyed by a single thought." Yeah, literally.

I think the consensus is it helped IT a lot. Everyone but the hardcore literalists agree. I've seen many open minded literalists rethink their stances about IT because Leviathan give it more premise. Like the Geth consensus mission. Now we have 2 missions (if Leviathan is one mission) to base it on/prepare ourselves with.


I dont understand the literalists.

They're all 'THE LEVIATHANS CONFIRMED THERE IS AN INTELLIGENCE OF SOME KIND! THIS DISPROVES IT!'

Yet they completely ignore the fact that Levvy's control is basically the exact same as the godchild scene, which is much more interesting than there simply being an intelligence, that may or may not be the godchild.

#17271
BansheeOwnage

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TheConstantOne wrote...
*snip*

Anyway, as crazy as the above idea is I felt that I should share it and see what happens...thoughts?

Whoa. I don't know. Probably not true, but very interesting.

#17272
BansheeOwnage

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byne wrote...

I dont understand the literalists.

They're all 'THE LEVIATHANS CONFIRMED THERE IS AN INTELLIGENCE OF SOME KIND! THIS DISPROVES IT!'

Yet they completely ignore the fact that Levvy's control is basically the exact same as the godchild scene, which is much more interesting than there simply being an intelligence, that may or may not be the godchild.

OH MY GOD GUYS ANDERSON IS REAL. THEREFORE THE SCENE ISN'T A DREAM. ILLUSIVE MAN IS REAL TOO. WHY DON'T YOU GUYS GET IT?

Same argument. See how it fails? Posted Image

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 02 septembre 2012 - 12:13 .


#17273
N7L4D

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BansheeOwnage wrote...

N7L4D wrote...
I have a theory that the illusive man and his resources(just like the rachni) are being indoctrinated by levy, that's why reaper forces attacked them, I also think the struggle in shepards mind at the end could be, harbinger(starkidt) levy(TIM) Anderson(shep fighting it off) I think levy wants to take control of the reapers, so they can make it back to the apex of evolution, harby, well he kinda is trying something like synthesis for a while, shep renegade or paragon has always had the goal of destroying the reapers, it's just theory, that I'd bet has been talked about before, whether it has or hasn't, what do you guys think of that?

Well I already responded, but seeing as no one else is. I don't think TIM is indoctrinated by Leviathan because it uses direct control. I do think it's a cool idea that TIM is the Leviathan is Shep's head. Posted Image


lol thanks, yeah i was thinking that, but i feel that TIM is a bit differnet the others that were indoctrinated by reaper tech, most see the reapers as something they can work with, i felt that TIM, indoctrinated TIM, wanting to control reapers different, and im still wondering why did reaper forces want to attack sanctuary? i thought it fits in but you are right though, lots of holes in that part hahaha, but i ti like levy as TIM in sheps head which was the other part i thought, idk why but i see levy kinda like xen with the whole quarian geth situation, well kinda idk now, feels like im running in circles confusing my own self hahahah

#17274
BansheeOwnage

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ZerebusPrime wrote...

So it finally hit me today that the galaxy search filter bit in Bryson's office was in fact a tongue-in-cheek jab at speculation and us IT'ers in general. The game has us using intelligent guesses posited by experts in the lore of the Mass Effect universe to build and overall working theory. Some of the speculations pay off (Leviathans need eezo) and some of the speculations do not (the Rachni probably weren't enthralled by the Leviathans, sorry, but it was a good sounding idea).

Yeah, I got the feeling the whole DLC was a nod to us. Maybe I'm being delusional I don't know. But everything about conspiracies and clues/speculation and the whole thing being about indoc kind of says something no? Regardless of the story of Leviathan.

#17275
Spectreownage

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