80611 réponses à ce sujet

[demersel]

The Twilight God wrote...

What makes you think there is no concrete on the Citadel?

What makes you thing there is concrete on citadel?

[paxxton]

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Daryslash wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Daryslash wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

Hey paxxton your avatar looks like Garneau it's creepy.

 I don't see any resemblance.

How exactly did you manage to get this unique avatar? Or is it not unique and I'm allucinating? God, am I indoctrinated??

Here you have a detailed guide:
http://social.biowar...2113/blog/4817/

Why, thank you, kind sir.

You're welcome!

never worked for me for some reason...

There's a glitch in that guide. I don't quite remember what it is but it has something to do with the order you do the steps. If someone remembers, post a solution.

Modifié par paxxton, 02 septembre 2012 - 04:36 .

[MaximizedAction]

TSA_383 wrote...
*snip*
Shepard: But what's the point of all these harvests?

Leviathan: The Intelligence has one purpose: preservation of life. That purpose has not been fulfilled. It directed the reapers to create the mass relays - to speed the time between cycles for greatest efficiency. The galaxy itself became an experiment. Evolution its tool.

Shepard: Will it ever end?

Leviathan: Unknown. Until the Intelligence finds what it is looking for, the harvest will continue.
*snip*

Wow...I didn't know that bit. So, assuming this is legit information, then the harvest is not the solution but the search for it; or, at least that's the conclusion the Leviathan's came to. But, even though both can indoctrinate in their resp. ways, I find Leviathan still more legit than the Reapers themselves.

So the Dark Energy plot turned into Preservation of Organic Life? If so, that'd make for a mighty morally difficult choice for the player: Had the Guardian told us from the beginning that it was looking for a solution to save everyone, and you could 'help' him achieve that, maybe the ending would have been less of a punch in the face.

On the other hand, offering the player the choice of helping the AI achieve this goal, the preservation of every organic out there, that would seem fishy as well:
Mostly every social (especially advanced civilizations with concrete moral notions) cares for someone else. So it would seem like a good shtick for Reapers to catch organics and synthetics with that story.

No matter how fishy and suspicious, this line from the Leviathan does indeed make the Guardian/Catalyst/AI(?) less trustworthy.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 02 septembre 2012 - 04:45 .

[BatmanTurian]

paxxton wrote...
There's a glitch in that guide. I don't quite remember what it is but it has to do something with the order you do the steps. If someone remembers, post a solution.

That explains it, because I did everything to the letter.

[BatmanTurian]

MaximizedAction wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...
*snip*
Shepard: But what's the point of all these harvests?

Leviathan: The Intelligence has one purpose: preservation of life. That purpose has not been fulfilled. It directed the reapers to create the mass relays - to speed the time between cycles for greatest efficiency. The galaxy itself became an experiment. Evolution its tool.

Shepard: Will it ever end?

Leviathan: Unknown. Until the Intelligence finds what it is looking for, the harvest will continue.
*snip*

Wow...I didn't know that bit. So, assuming this is legit information, then the harvest is not the solution but the search for it; or, at least that's the conclusion the Leviathan's came to. But, even though both can indoctrinate in their resp. ways, I find Leviathan still more legit than the Reapers themselves.

So the Dark Energy plot turned into Preservation of Organic Life?

Technically, the Dark Energy plot was always Preservation of Organic Life when you think about it.

[paxxton]

MaximizedAction wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...
*snip*
Shepard: But what's the point of all these harvests?

Leviathan: The Intelligence has one purpose: preservation of life. That purpose has not been fulfilled. It directed the reapers to create the mass relays - to speed the time between cycles for greatest efficiency. The galaxy itself became an experiment. Evolution its tool.

Shepard: Will it ever end?

Leviathan: Unknown. Until the Intelligence finds what it is looking for, the harvest will continue.
*snip*

Wow...I didn't know that bit. So, assuming this is legit information, then the harvest is not the solution but the search for it; or, at least that's the conclusion the Leviathan's came to. But, even though both can indoctrinate in their resp. ways, I find Leviathan still more legit than the Reapers themselves.

So the Dark Energy plot turned into Preservation of Organic Life?

I suppose the Intelligence's program is highly recursive and the border conditions were defined incorrectly resulting in an infinite loop. Just use the Task Manager and close it.

Modifié par paxxton, 02 septembre 2012 - 04:42 .

[MaximizedAction]

Damn, you guys commented on my post, and here I added 'a bit' to it. ^^

[BatmanTurian]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Damn, you guys commented on my post, and here I added 'a bit' to it. ^^

I still would have made the same comment.

[Home run MF]

Leviathan contradicts himself or knows something he is not telling because later says "There was no mistake. It still serves its purpose."
Or they programmed it to achieve synthesis and know it is not achieved yet.

[GethPrimeMKII]

The thought just came to mind. Leviathans claim the reapers perfected indoctrination. What was originally a tool of the leviathans was vastly improved upon by the reapers over thousands of years. And it clearly shows. Leviathan indoctrination is easy to recognize for what it is than reaper indoctrination. Yet reaper indoctrination is so subtle that thousands of pages have been dedicated to debate whether it's even happening.

[TheConstantOne]

I'm thinking that we'll see one more dlc that takes place during the main game's timeline and then we'll see post-ending dlc (should they choose to do one.) I say this because the Galaxy Map has star systems that your cursor can highlight but you can't travel to or get the name of. After the Leviathan dlc it looks like Omega's system is the only one of these hidden systems left. Or am I forgetting one?

That would suggest to me that Omega is the last planned sp dlc that take splace pre-ending. If Bioware chooses to do a post ending dlc, they should give us all the additional story context we would require from the Omega content

[paxxton]

BatmanTurian wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Damn, you guys commented on my post, and here I added 'a bit' to it. ^^

I still would have made the same comment.

Me too.

[BatmanTurian]

Home run MF wrote...

Leviathan contradicts himself or knows something he is not telling because later says "There was no mistake. It still serves its purpose."
Or they programmed it to achieve synthesis and know it is not achieved yet.

He might be holding some things back, but I prefer this explanation:

SparkyRich wrote...

The Catalyst's solution is the result
of incomplete instructions - "garbage in, garbage out." And the
leviathan says that no mistake was made - an obvious lie to itself to
preserve its self-image of perfection.

[paxxton]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

The thought just came to mind. Leviathans claim the reapers perfected indoctrination. What was originally a tool of the leviathans was vastly improved upon by the reapers over thousands of years. And it clearly shows. Leviathan indoctrination is easy to recognize for what it is than reaper indoctrination. Yet reaper indoctrination is so subtle that thousands of pages have been dedicated to debate whether it's even happening.

Exactly. A victim of enthrallment would feel the after effects (the scientists at T-GES facility). The victims of indoctrination would fight for the Reapers convinced they are doing a favor to the Galaxy. An interesting thing is that it seems that Leviathan has to constantly send signals to his thralls to keep them occupied whereas a Reaper utilizes a localized version of that mechanism (an indoctrinated person thinks the Reapers are to be served).

Modifié par paxxton, 02 septembre 2012 - 05:06 .

[MaximizedAction]

TheConstantOne wrote...

I'm thinking that we'll see one more dlc that takes place during the main game's timeline and then we'll see post-ending dlc (should they choose to do one.) I say this because the Galaxy Map has star systems that your cursor can highlight but you can't travel to or get the name of. After the Leviathan dlc it looks like Omega's system is the only one of these hidden systems left. Or am I forgetting one?

That would suggest to me that Omega is the last planned sp dlc that take splace pre-ending. If Bioware chooses to do a post ending dlc, they should give us all the additional story context we would require from the Omega content

Also (and foremost):
Everyone would dig post-ending DLC. Show me one person who would've be either positively surprised or curious enough to give it a shot.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 02 septembre 2012 - 05:04 .

[RavenEyry]

After all this analysis, my main reason for thinking the breath is on Earth is purely because that was my first impression. And I know it was for many, many others too, even those who have decided it's on the citadel now.

[BatmanTurian]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

The thought just came to mind. Leviathans claim the reapers perfected indoctrination. What was originally a tool of the leviathans was vastly improved upon by the reapers over thousands of years. And it clearly shows. Leviathan indoctrination is easy to recognize for what it is than reaper indoctrination. Yet reaper indoctrination is so subtle that thousands of pages have been dedicated to debate whether it's even happening.

An easy to miss detail, yes. Looking deeper, this DLC says a lot about the Reaper Indoctrination, especially Harby's, and how it works at its core and how it has evolved to create a perfect prison and Room 101 for the victim's mind.

[BatmanTurian]

RavenEyry wrote...

After all this analysis, my main reason for thinking the breath is on Earth is purely because that was my first impression. And I know it was for many, many others too, even those who have decided it's on the citadel now.

Mine was logic: " Why would they use a porous material on a space station? And how the heck did Shepard survive that inferno? He couldn't have... hmmm.... "

Logic is in short supply on BSN apparently.

[GethPrimeMKII]

Lets view the ending from the literal perspective for a second. If Shepard could survive the control and synthesis option intact, he would argue he chose the best option, that he saved the galaxy and that all was well. Pretty much exactly what control and synthesis supporters do now.

Modifié par GethPrimeMKII, 02 septembre 2012 - 05:08 .

[MaximizedAction]

BatmanTurian wrote...
*snip*
Logic is in short supply on BSN apparently.

Authorities are often stronger than logic: if Bioware suggests it might've been the Citadel, one tends to rather believe that, no matter how odd.

But to quote Feynman: "What do you care what other people think?"

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 02 septembre 2012 - 05:10 .

[paxxton]

A webcast from PAX: http://www.livestream.com/biowaretv. It's starting.

Modifié par paxxton, 02 septembre 2012 - 05:11 .

[BatmanTurian]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Lets view the ending from the literal perspective for a second. If Shepard could survive the control and synthesis option intact, he would argue he chose the best option, that he saved the galaxy and that all was well. Pretty much exactly what control and synthesis supporters do now.

I read on here somewhere that in Synthesis, if you listen to tense, Shepard says what he will do in the catalyst's place in the future as a definitive statement, EDI imagines what it would be like to have synthesis (which seems ooc of her to me), and Hackett makes a stirring speech as if he were running for president or was Commander Adama on Battlestar Galactica trying to inspire troops.

Either way, none of the voice-overs say what actually happens, they're all in future tense. " This is what will happen" " This is how I think it might happen" etc.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

BatmanTurian wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

The thought just came to mind. Leviathans claim the reapers perfected indoctrination. What was originally a tool of the leviathans was vastly improved upon by the reapers over thousands of years. And it clearly shows. Leviathan indoctrination is easy to recognize for what it is than reaper indoctrination. Yet reaper indoctrination is so subtle that thousands of pages have been dedicated to debate whether it's even happening.

An easy to miss detail, yes. Looking deeper, this DLC says a lot about the Reaper Indoctrination, especially Harby's, and how it works at its core and how it has evolved to create a perfect prison and Room 101 for the victim's mind.

Another bit I found interesting is how the Rachni hive mind is compared to Leviathans control.

The Rachni Queen can interact with other peoples minds, even dead bodies, to speak through them...could the Rachni hive mind have evolved along similar paths as the Leviathans, resulting in something which works different from the Leviathan control, but on a similar basis.

Maybe a better question to consider is this. Could Leviathan have had a hand in the Rachnis evolution and survival intending to use them as weapons against the Reapers?

Off course this is countered a bit by the fact that no known link between Leviathan and the Rachni War exists, but it might have been before that as we know the Protheans performed experiments on the Rachni.

Just some random thoughts.

[BatmanTurian]

MaximizedAction wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
*snip*
Logic is in short supply on BSN apparently.

Authorities are often stronger than logic: if Bioware suggests it might've been the Citadel, one tends to rather believe that, no matter how odd.

But to quote Feynman: "What do you care what other people think?"

I have a strong aversion to close-minded, illogical people?

[Home run MF]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

Leviathan contradicts himself or knows something he is not telling because later says "There was no mistake. It still serves its purpose."
Or they programmed it to achieve synthesis and know it is not achieved yet.

He might be holding some things back, but I prefer this explanation:

SparkyRich wrote...

The Catalyst's solution is the result
of incomplete instructions - "garbage in, garbage out." And the
leviathan says that no mistake was made - an obvious lie to itself to
preserve its self-image of perfection.

Could that arrogance be the cause of all this? I mean all the AI's and synthetic life rebelled because they where treated like tools from the beginning. I kind of get the feeling they hinted at something like that with the EDI Shepard conversations, when she asks whats the purpose of synthetic life you can choose between what it's told to do and the free will route. The Leviathans treated the "Intelligence" like a tool and now it's their turn to be treated as tools.