80611 réponses à ce sujet

[paxxton]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

paxxton wrote...

It starts to look like we discuss troll behavior as often as IT.

Half the reason I follow this thread is to watch trolls get shut down.

EDIT: The top of the world.

Modifié par paxxton, 03 septembre 2012 - 02:11 .

[BatmanTurian]

God, I hate troll storms. I left too early or I would have burned TTG, but now I simply don't care because he ignores logical rebuttals, just like every troll that has ever come in here.

I'll throw it out anyway since he seems too dense to understand the argument, if that second explosion happened in a place where Shepard is breathing held in by a mass effect shield (not vacuum), then that is the oxygen burned in the second explosion. Logically, if it's holding in atmosphere, it would contain the energy to the breaking point, which still engulfs Shepard even after he survives the first explosion, which others have explained why he can't.

It's simple physics, ME1 is explained by the devolopers, saying there is a mass effect shield. Well, if that's the case, it holds in atmosphere. At some point a field breaks, but before that time the explosion would create a pressure wave that would crush and burn everything else.

If you refute this, you are ignorant, trolling, or really too unintelligent to be debating with us in the first place.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 03 septembre 2012 - 02:16 .

[paxxton]

BatmanTurian wrote...

God, I hate troll storms. I left too early or I would have burned TTG, but now I simply don't care because he ignores logical rebuttals, just like every troll that has ever come in here.

I'll throw it out anyway since he seems too dense to understand the argument, if that second explosion happened in a place where Shepard is breathing held in by a mass effect shield (not vacuum), then that is the oxygen burned in the second explosion. Logically, if it's holding in atmosphere, it would contain the energy to the breaking point, which still engulfs Shepard even after he survives the first explosion, which others have explained why he can't.

It's simple physics, ME1 is explained by the devolopers, saying there is a mass effect shield. Well, if that's the case, it holds in atmosphere. At some point a field breaks, but before that time the explosion would create a pressure wave that would crush and burn everything else.

If you refute this, you are ignorant, trolling, or really too unintelligent to be debating with us in the first place.

Also, mass effect shields do not protect against fast-traveling projectiles as they do not protect against sufficiently powerful blasts. Plus, the Crucible's beam seems to thravel inside the space contained by the shielding so there must be a hole. That implies the air should be sucked out and Shepard should suffocate. This doesn't happen.

Modifié par paxxton, 03 septembre 2012 - 03:09 .

[Rifneno]

BatmanTurian wrote...

God, I hate troll storms. I left too early or I would have burned TTG, but now I simply don't care because he ignores logical rebuttals, just like every troll that has ever come in here.

I'll throw it out anyway since he seems too dense to understand the argument, if that second explosion happened in a place where Shepard is breathing held in by a mass effect shield (not vacuum), then that is the oxygen burned in the second explosion. Logically, if it's holding in atmosphere, it would contain the energy to the breaking point, which still engulfs Shepard even after he survives the first explosion, which others have explained why he can't.

It's simple physics, ME1 is explained by the devolopers, saying there is a mass effect shield. Well, if that's the case, it holds in atmosphere. At some point a field breaks, but before that time the explosion would create a pressure wave that would crush and burn everything else.

If you refute this, you are ignorant, trolling, or really too unintelligent to be debating with us in the first place.

I had one all written out for him claiming the predator switch was a bug, about how the predator was set to be loaded into the RAM only if you went to destroy and such... then I realized there's lots of perfectly good inanimate objects on my desk I can tell it to instead and none of them will respond as insanely as TTG. 

[Restrider]

Hello again!
I had recently a discussion with infamous poster Heretic_Hanar about the endings. I think it is safe to say that there were some differences in our opinions. Anyway, in this discussion I pointed out that the whole ending debate boils down to one question:

Where the bloody f**k does the breathing scene take place?

Heretic_Hanar said it was on the Citadel (cables and such).
The fact that there is a huge explosion, no one could ever survive, did not convince him.

I have a few questions:
How can you explain the cables? I thought about it and it could be the trashed Mako tank for example.
What exactly is the difference between IT Con and IT Dream? As far as I know, IT Dream states that everything after the Beam is an indoc attempt and that the choices show either indoctrination or breaking free from it. IT Con on the other hand is more.... enigmatic to me. Does it mean that the endings truly happen?

Hope for answers.

Modifié par Restrider, 03 septembre 2012 - 02:30 .

[Paulinesh]

Sorry, I'm a bit slow. :-) I just learned about this theory existing a week ago. And it puts lots of things in place that earlier seemed to me just flaws in the game story. And Leviathan DLC doesn't contradict the theory of Shepard's indoctrination either.
So I start to believe that Bioware intended the plot to be this way.
But the Ending DLC that the community was asking for... Don't you think it doesn't fit?

[BatmanTurian]

Paulinesh wrote...

Sorry, I'm a bit slow. :-) I just learned about this theory existing a week ago. And it puts lots of things in place that earlier seemed to me just flaws in the game story. And Leviathan DLC doesn't contradict the theory of Shepard's indoctrination either.
So I start to believe that Bioware intended the plot to be this way.
But the Ending DLC that the community was asking for... Don't you think it doesn't fit?

it still fits. The theory is adjusted with each new information gained, like any theory. One builds evidence but one cannot have proof without confirmation by Word of God. But then, Word of God has said they want speculations and that IT is perfectly valid since many parts of the game and the ending are not meant to be taken literally at face value.

[Norlond]

Wow, sometimes I'm very happy to live in europe, so I don't have to watch the trollstorms that evolve overnight

[BatmanTurian]

Restrider wrote...

Hello again!
I had recently a discussion with infamous poster Heretic_Hanar about the endings. I think it is safe to say that there were some differences in our opinions. Anyway, in this discussion I pointed out that the whole ending debate boils down to one question:

Where the bloody f**k does the breathing scene take place?

Heretic_Hanar said it was on the Citadel (cables and such).
The fact that there is a huge explosion, no one could ever survive, did not convince him.

I have a few questions:
How can you explain the cables? I thought about it and it could be the trashed Mako tank for example.
What exactly is the difference between IT Con and IT Dream? As far as I know, IT Dream states that everything after the Beam is an indoc attempt and that the choices show either indoctrination or breaking free from it. IT Con on the other hand is more.... enigmatic to me. Does it mean that the endings truly happen?

Hope for answers.

There is division on this. Some believe the cables are rebar, others believe they are electrical underground lines or Reaper cables that were knocked to the surface with Harbinger's last Blast that knocks Shepard out.

Yeah the problem with Literalists is that they ignore the explosions in destroy and how unlikely it is that Shepard would survive that. Doing so is just showing denial and an inability to admit when one is wrong. But that is only one problem among many in the Literalist interpretation which, again, has been struck a fatal blow because Tully Ackland (link) had this to say about the ending:

There are elements of Mass Effect 3 that are meant to have non-literal
interpretations. The hope is that these things provide
thought-provoking discussion about the themes of the story and the
motivations of characters. As such, we would prefer not to comment on
players’ interpretations of these elements, since it would ruin the
enjoyment of such discussion by suggesting there is a single, concrete
way of viewing them.

So taking everything literally is the first mistake. When Bioware, themselves says, " Hey guys.. guys.. listen... not everything is literal here. We're unreliable narrators. You should take everything you see with a grain of salt and figure it out for yourself, " then you should know you're already making the first mistake in thinking everything on screen is exactly what is happening.

[BatmanTurian]

Rifneno wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

God, I hate troll storms. I left too early or I would have burned TTG, but now I simply don't care because he ignores logical rebuttals, just like every troll that has ever come in here.

I'll throw it out anyway since he seems too dense to understand the argument, if that second explosion happened in a place where Shepard is breathing held in by a mass effect shield (not vacuum), then that is the oxygen burned in the second explosion. Logically, if it's holding in atmosphere, it would contain the energy to the breaking point, which still engulfs Shepard even after he survives the first explosion, which others have explained why he can't.

It's simple physics, ME1 is explained by the devolopers, saying there is a mass effect shield. Well, if that's the case, it holds in atmosphere. At some point a field breaks, but before that time the explosion would create a pressure wave that would crush and burn everything else.

If you refute this, you are ignorant, trolling, or really too unintelligent to be debating with us in the first place.

I had one all written out for him claiming the predator switch was a bug, about how the predator was set to be loaded into the RAM only if you went to destroy and such... then I realized there's lots of perfectly good inanimate objects on my desk I can tell it to instead and none of them will respond as insanely as TTG. 

I just wanted to throw that last bit out there since apparently he wasn't getting it, it being that there is a second explosion Shepard has to survive if his skin isn't melted off and his lungs seared by the first. The second is impossible for anyone, even the Bionic Spectre, to survive by virtue of pure physics and biology. Period.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 03 septembre 2012 - 03:14 .

[Norlond]

BatmanTurian wrote...
the enjoyment of such discussion

They obviously forgot that there're people (usually referred to as "trolls") on the internet that act like pubescent teenagers

If you don't have some super secret private forum you invite people to, it's almost impossible to have a discussion on an adequately intelellectual level... Anyone got some super secret private forum you could invite us ITers to?

Modifié par Norlond, 03 septembre 2012 - 03:15 .

[Paulinesh]

If only the gameplay would give a player more choice! From the beginning I felt that the boy figure was too much. There were so many "Shepards" out there. Not all of them were paragons...
Preoccupied with war, my Shepard wouldn't even remember one child of all people who were dying at that time.
And yet the dreams... Indoctrination, definitely! :-)

[RavenEyry]

Norlond wrote...

If you don't have some super secret private forum you invite people to, it's almost impossible to have a discussion on an adequately intelellectual level... Anyone got some super secret private forum you could invite us ITers to?

There is one that was made during thread mk 1, but it's pretty much dead now.

[BatmanTurian]

RavenEyry wrote...

Norlond wrote...

If you don't have some super secret private forum you invite people to, it's almost impossible to have a discussion on an adequately intelellectual level... Anyone got some super secret private forum you could invite us ITers to?

There is one that was made during thread mk 1, but it's pretty much dead now.

Yeah, we primarily talk in here because otherwise our detractors would just accuse us of being in a bubble and not listening to them.

Oh wait, they already do that regardless.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 03 septembre 2012 - 03:21 .

[paxxton]

RavenEyry wrote...

Norlond wrote...

If you don't have some super secret private forum you invite people to, it's almost impossible to have a discussion on an adequately intelellectual level... Anyone got some super secret private forum you could invite us ITers to?

There is one that was made during thread mk 1, but it's pretty much dead now.

LOL. I didn't know that.

[Andromidius]

BatmanTurian wrote...

There is division on this. Some believe the cables are rebar, others believe they are electrical underground lines or Reaper cables that were knocked to the surface with Harbinger's last Blast that knocks Shepard out.

The thing is, it shouldn't matter what the cables are.

If you believe the rubble is material from the Citadel, then you can believe the Citadel is constructed using rebar.  Basically, you have to be dumb enough to not realise metal and polymer materials can't become rubble, unlike concrete or rock.

If you believe the cables are Reaper cables, it could be anywhere.  The Citadel isn't made up of Reaper cables, neither is the Crucible, and neither are Earth buildings (and seemingly, the conduit doesn't have any visible Reaper cables).  What is everywhere are Reapers, Reapers who are being blown to pieces.  So using the cable as proof of location when you think its Reaper cable is irrelivent - Reaper cables are anywhere Reapers are.

Regardless, its rubble.  Rubble can't be made from the materials on the Citadel (unless you think an ultra-advanced space station is made of a highly dense and brittle material), and the closest source of material capable of being rubble is Earth.

Quite why its a debate is beyond me.  Even Moon Landing conspiracy nutcases have a better case.

Edit: And its slightly ironic that the statement from the Bioware dev mentions concrete - though in a figurative sense.  Just a funny side thought.

Modifié par Andromidius, 03 septembre 2012 - 03:24 .

[Home run MF]

Paulinesh wrote...

If only the gameplay would give a player more choice! From the beginning I felt that the boy figure was too much. There were so many "Shepards" out there. Not all of them were paragons...
Preoccupied with war, my Shepard wouldn't even remember one child of all people who were dying at that time.
And yet the dreams... Indoctrination, definitely! :-)

Yup, in fact if you played Leviathan (spoilers ahead) every time he takes control of someone you can hear sounds that play during the dreams.

[RavenEyry]

@Andromidius: I completely forgot metal couldn't make rubble like that. I already thought it was London but that really helps.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Paulinesh wrote...

If only the gameplay would give a player more choice! From the beginning I felt that the boy figure was too much. There were so many "Shepards" out there. Not all of them were paragons...
Preoccupied with war, my Shepard wouldn't even remember one child of all people who were dying at that time.
And yet the dreams... Indoctrination, definitely! :-)

The mere idea that Shepard would focus so much on that one child is ludicrious, especially when you realize that some Shepards have the "sole survivor" background, a far worse situation to go through, not even mentioing the Virmire Incident or anyone you might have lost during the Suicide mission.

[Daryslash]

Didn't some of the developers, without noticing, already confirmed that it is, in fact, rebar over the place in the breath scene?

Modifié par Daryslash, 03 septembre 2012 - 03:27 .

[Norlond]

paxxton wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Norlond wrote...

If you don't have some super secret private forum you invite people to, it's almost impossible to have a discussion on an adequately intelellectual level... Anyone got some super secret private forum you could invite us ITers to?

There is one that was made during thread mk 1, but it's pretty much dead now.

LOL. I didn't know that.

Didn't know that either, I was lurking back in Mark I but never came across an IT forum

Then again, BW would be sad if their most loyal fans just leave the BSN

Daryslash wrote...

Didn't some of the developers, without
noticing, already confirmed that it is, in fact, rebar over the place in
the breath scene?

Mike Gamble said something like that I think

Modifié par Norlond, 03 septembre 2012 - 03:29 .

[paxxton]

Daryslash wrote...

Didn't some of the developers, without noticing, already confirmed that it is, in fact, rebar over the place in the breath scene?

Did the guide worked? If not try using DA2 to upload a character (just change the avatar file).

[RavenEyry]

Paulinesh wrote...

Preoccupied with war, my Shepard wouldn't even remember one child of all people who were dying at that time.
And yet the dreams... Indoctrination, definitely! :-)

Also note the kid acts like he wants you to remember him. Instead of 'you meet a kid, kid dies', its 'you meet a kid, you see kid again, he stops to stare into your very soul, kid climbs onto very edge of shuttle, turns to stare into your soul again'.

The kid seems pretty obsessed with that soldier he met once and refused hep from.

[RavenEyry]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
The mere idea that Shepard would focus so much on that one child is ludicrious, especially when you realize that some Shepards have the "sole survivor" background, a far worse situation to go through, not even mentioing the Virmire Incident or anyone you might have lost during the Suicide mission.

My favourite one to remind people of is the person Shepard watched melt. A person who hadn't previously refused help, by the way. 'Representing those on Earth who couldn't be saved' really doesn't cut it for me, especially my Sheps that have never been to Earth before.

[BatmanTurian]

Norlond wrote...

paxxton wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Norlond wrote...

If you don't have some super secret private forum you invite people to, it's almost impossible to have a discussion on an adequately intelellectual level... Anyone got some super secret private forum you could invite us ITers to?

There is one that was made during thread mk 1, but it's pretty much dead now.

LOL. I didn't know that.

Didn't know that either, I was lurking back in Mark I but never came across an IT forum

Then again, BW would be sad if their most loyal fans just leave the BSN

Daryslash wrote...

Didn't some of the developers, without
noticing, already confirmed that it is, in fact, rebar over the place in
the breath scene?

Mike Gamble said something like that I think

Here's the official BSN group: http://social.biowar...oup/7365/#group

I can invite long-standing members of the thread with "good character" I.E. no trolls.

Or you can subscribe. It's cool...

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 03 septembre 2012 - 03:35 .