80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Andromidius]

RavenEyry wrote...

@Andromidius: I completely forgot metal couldn't make rubble like that. I already thought it was London but that really helps.

Yeah, its quite obvious to a lot of people.  Hense why the discussion sparked in the first place about how its possible, and all the theories that Shepard somehow ran back to the Conduit to be beamed back down to Earth arose.  And honestly, that's not a bad suggestion (even though, ironically, the EC kind of killed that by showing the exit point of the conduit being inert with no visible mechanisms).  Better then saying its on the Citadel, at least.

Oh, and the lighting is very similar to back on London too.  And there's wind.

Not to mention those distant sounds, which are hard to make out.  Sort of sound like distorted bells to me, but it really could be anything.  Hell, for a while I was pretty sure I could see a clock face in the mist in one still.  But one thing is clear - that is not on the Citadel.

[Daryslash]

paxxton wrote...

Daryslash wrote...

Didn't some of the developers, without noticing, already confirmed that it is, in fact, rebar over the place in the breath scene?

Did the guide worked? If not try using DA2 to upload a character (just change the avatar file).

Oh, I didn't try it yet. 
The main reason I wanted a custom avatar was to put my Shepard there, but I play on the PS3 so I have yet to figure this out. 
Also, there is some stuff to download and install and I'm sooo laaaaaazy.

[paxxton]

RavenEyry wrote...

Paulinesh wrote...

Preoccupied with war, my Shepard wouldn't even remember one child of all people who were dying at that time.
And yet the dreams... Indoctrination, definitely! :-)

Also note the kid acts like he wants you to remember him. Instead of 'you meet a kid, kid dies', its 'you meet a kid, you see kid again, he stops to stare into your very soul, kid climbs onto very edge of shuttle, turns to stare into your soul again'.

The kid seems pretty obsessed with that soldier he met once and refused hep from.

And then he shouts really loud.

[Norlond]

BatmanTurian wrote...
Here's the official BSN group: http://social.biowar...oup/7365/#group

I can invite long-standing members of the thread with "good character" I.E. no trolls.

Oh I'm already in that group, but I only postet on the Katawa Shoujo thread

I thought you meant some actual forum on some ITers own server or something

[paxxton]

Daryslash wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Daryslash wrote...

Didn't some of the developers, without noticing, already confirmed that it is, in fact, rebar over the place in the breath scene?

Did the guide worked? If not try using DA2 to upload a character (just change the avatar file).

Oh, I didn't try it yet. 
The main reason I wanted a custom avatar was to put my Shepard there, but I play on the PS3 so I have yet to figure this out. 
Also, there is some stuff to download and install and I'm sooo laaaaaazy.

I'm not sure if it's possible if you're on PS3 (or any other console for that matter). The thing works for PC though.

[BatmanTurian]

Norlond wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
Here's the official BSN group: http://social.biowar...oup/7365/#group

I can invite long-standing members of the thread with "good character" I.E. no trolls.

Oh I'm already in that group, but I only postet on the Katawa Shoujo thread

I thought you meant some actual forum on some ITers own server or something

Ah, well you're already set.

[BatmanTurian]

Thought I'd post my comparison image posts from my sig here, mostly just for reference when I'm not around. Hopefully the img code works here, if not I'll just edit with links.

-----

Ladies, Gentlemen, the following is a comparison of the "cable" like objects in Shepard's Breath and Reaper Cable to show that it is not likely to be Rebar. Please be warned there are many images to follow, please be sure to right click and view image to see full size.

First, here is an image of rebar in real life before it is used in contruction, take note of it's size and structure:


Now, here is an image of rebar used in game during the London mission, as you can see it is a very rust-like color, but all are about the same size:





Now, here are some screens of Reaper Cable in the dark corridor on the Citadel, you can see that they vary in size/thickness but all retain the same construct:





There is more reaper cable throughout the game but taking the above screens at this location was the most convinient at the time.

Here are the "cable" objects from Shepard's Breath scene, heavily brightened, you can make out very similar structure to the Reaper Cables seen throughout the game, and also take note how they vary in size:







Hopefully this will help clear up some of the Rebar vs Reaper cable debacle. Now, keep in mind this Reaper Cable in the breath scene could have come from the Citadel since there was plenty of it there, but the rubble almost definitley came from London.

------

Ladies, Gentlemen, once again I have put together a comparison post for you. The screenshots below should show that the rubble in Shepard's breath scene is more than likely rubble from London on Earth. Be warned, there are many images to follow, please remember to right click and view an image if your'e having trouble seeing detail. NOTE: I've brightened the Shepard's Breath screens for a better view:

Let's start off with some London rubble, the following screens are taken from the first shuttle drop to the beam run, all before Harbinger's attack. They highlight the groove patterns and broken rubble structure:







Now, here are screenshots of Shepard's Breath, again these have been brightened from their original scene:







Open new windows, compare them side by side if you must, but you can clearly see the all-too similar grooves and indentations and chipped away concrete in each screen. Yes, there are grooved lines in some structures on the Citadel, but they do not match the patterns as closley as the London rubble does nor does anything on Citadel appear to have concrete inside of it. The proof is above, take it lightly.

-------

End of post.

[paxxton]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Here's the official BSN group: http://social.biowar...oup/7365/#group

I can invite long-standing members of the thread with "good character" I.E. no trolls.

Or you can subscribe. It's cool...

I know this group. I'm even a member. I thought you were talking about a forum thread.

Btw, afaik it's far from private cause anyone can post there (even without ME3 registered).

Modifié par paxxton, 03 septembre 2012 - 03:39 .

[BatmanTurian]

The following is a list I've compiled of things Shepard would need to survive in order for the Destroy "Shepard's Breath" scene to make sense without some form of IT (illusion, hallucination, etc).

-----

When viewing the following keep in mind several things:
The Citadel is massive. Shepard is at the base of the ring, essentially under the Presidium Tower in the center of the Citadel where the Crucible is docked. Shepard has hardly any armor and no kinetic barriers as proven by the blood spatter from Marauder Shields attack.



This explosion more than envelops the area where Shepard was in the decision chamber, the sheer size of this explosion should let us assume that it is LARGE and FATAL to anything near it.

A list of things Shepard would need to survive in the Destroy ending in order to take the famous breath:

1. Potentially fatal injuries already sustained. (Harbinger's death ray, Marauder Shields gunshot, excessive bleeding)
2. The initial explosion of the Destroy tube (the strength of this explosion alone could outright kill Shepard at point blank range).
3. Being ground zero when the Red Wave is sent out (it's enough force to move space debris and Reapers, it would most definitley hurt Shepard being that close).
4. The Red Wave itself. "You can wipe out all Synthetic life if you want --- Even YOU are partly Synthetic," it's entirely possible ALL of Shepard's implants would be deactivated on
contact with the Red energy resulting in his/her death.
5. The Citadel-Crucible explosion, image above.

6. The vastness of space without a helmet. Or air for that matter.
7. Re-entry into Earth's atmosphere without kinetic barriers or whole armor or a helmet (the sheer heat of freefall would vaporize Shepard if other things hadn't already.)
8. Impact with the ground, assuming anything is left of Shepard it would have to be scooped up with a shovel and bucket.

The infamous "Shepard Breath" scene I am 99% positive takes place on Earth, see my sig for London Rubble/Breath scene Rubble comparison. Shepard is in one piece, bloodied and battered, and takes a breath on Earth after the list above, the only logical explanation is that Shepard never left Earth. Whether or not things occurred in your head or in real life while you were unconscious is up in the air at this point.

------

As said before, even if the Breath scene doesn't take place on Earth, there's still 5 things that should kill Shepard even if he/she is such a badass.

[BatmanTurian]

paxxton wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Here's the official BSN group: http://social.biowar...oup/7365/#group

I can invite long-standing members of the thread with "good character" I.E. no trolls.

Or you can subscribe. It's cool...

I know this group. I'm even a member. I though you were talking about a forum thread.

Btw, afaik it's far from private cause anyone can post there (even without ME3 registered).

I know, I was kidding around.

[RavenEyry]

Andromidius wrote...

Yeah, its quite obvious to a lot of people.  Hense why the discussion sparked in the first place about how its possible, and all the theories that Shepard somehow ran back to the Conduit to be beamed back down to Earth arose.

Yeah, I commented a few days ago that most peoples first impression was that it was London and then it was followed by attempts to rationalise it being the citadel. Most people who think it's on the citadel is because they convinced themselves it was and not because that's what it obviously was.

[RavenEyry]

Vorcha rocket launchers can kill Shep in a couple of hits but obviously the citadel explosion is survivable because I say so.

[Restrider]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Hello again!
I had recently a discussion with infamous poster Heretic_Hanar about the endings. I think it is safe to say that there were some differences in our opinions. Anyway, in this discussion I pointed out that the whole ending debate boils down to one question:

Where the bloody f**k does the breathing scene take place?

Heretic_Hanar said it was on the Citadel (cables and such).
The fact that there is a huge explosion, no one could ever survive, did not convince him.

I have a few questions:
How can you explain the cables? I thought about it and it could be the trashed Mako tank for example.
What exactly is the difference between IT Con and IT Dream? As far as I know, IT Dream states that everything after the Beam is an indoc attempt and that the choices show either indoctrination or breaking free from it. IT Con on the other hand is more.... enigmatic to me. Does it mean that the endings truly happen?

Hope for answers.

There is division on this. Some believe the cables are rebar, others believe they are electrical underground lines or Reaper cables that were knocked to the surface with Harbinger's last Blast that knocks Shepard out.

Yeah the problem with Literalists is that they ignore the explosions in destroy and how unlikely it is that Shepard would survive that. Doing so is just showing denial and an inability to admit when one is wrong. But that is only one problem among many in the Literalist interpretation which, again, has been struck a fatal blow because Tully Ackland (link) had this to say about the ending:

There are elements of Mass Effect 3 that are meant to have non-literal
interpretations. The hope is that these things provide
thought-provoking discussion about the themes of the story and the
motivations of characters. As such, we would prefer not to comment on
players’ interpretations of these elements, since it would ruin the
enjoyment of such discussion by suggesting there is a single, concrete
way of viewing them.

So taking everything literally is the first mistake. When Bioware, themselves says, " Hey guys.. guys.. listen... not everything is literal here. We're unreliable narrators. You should take everything you see with a grain of salt and figure it out for yourself, " then you should know you're already making the first mistake in thinking everything on screen is exactly what is happening.

Hey, thanks alot for that quote. This clarifies everything by a huge amount. First I was totally convinced by IT, but reading too much from the literalists made me question IT. 
IT is plausible. The question is to what extend BW inteded it and if it is ever going to be revealed as canon.

Norlond wrote...
They obviously forgot that there're people (usually referred to as "trolls") on the internet that act like pubescent teenagers

You forget one thing though. There are alot of pubescent teenagers on the internet that do not have to act like pubescent teenagers. I know that for a fact, because I once was such a teenager and I know how... irrational they can be, lol.

Andromidius wrote...
The thing is, it shouldn't matter what the cables are.

If you
believe the rubble is material from the Citadel, then you can believe
the Citadel is constructed using rebar.  Basically, you have to be dumb
enough to not realise metal and polymer materials can't become rubble,
unlike concrete or rock.

If you believe the cables are Reaper
cables, it could be anywhere.  The Citadel isn't made up of Reaper
cables, neither is the Crucible, and neither are Earth buildings (and
seemingly, the conduit doesn't have any visible Reaper cables).  What is
everywhere are Reapers, Reapers who are being blown to pieces.  So
using the cable as proof of location when you think its Reaper cable is
irrelivent - Reaper cables are anywhere Reapers are.

Regardless,
its rubble.  Rubble can't be made from the materials on the Citadel
(unless you think an ultra-advanced space station is made of a highly
dense and brittle material), and the closest source of material capable
of being rubble is Earth.

Quite why its a debate is beyond me.  Even Moon Landing conspiracy nutcases have a better case.

Edit:
And its slightly ironic that the statement from the Bioware dev
mentions concrete - though in a figurative sense.  Just a funny side
thought.

Still, outside of this thread I feel like being part of a minority that is being harassed for its beliefs (though I think IT has nothing to do with believing but with sorting facts that hint at it). Or are the ranting literalist hordes just a loud faction and the majority still validates IT? Do you have any idea how the numbers are, any polls of that sort?

Home Run MF wrote...
 Are you familiar with the applications of tungsten?

Yes... I am. As dopant in high quality steel. Used as material for high temperature coils that can be used to evaporize other metals (did it today.... DIE ALUMINUM, DIE!!!!). And as core part of my beloved light bulb, which has been forbidden in my home country to be replaced by low consumption bulbs filled with toxic waste (aka mercury). 
/mad scientist
Questioning my mental stage after this is totally reasonable.

[hangmans tree]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

hangmans tree wrote...

Surely, by the behaviour of some IT supporters you cant blame other interlocutors to have the whole support group in low esteem.

You did not just say that...

No his response was not well mannered at all and I dont approve it, but if we go by general behavior this single thread should be the most esteemed thread on the entire forum with great gold signs and all. I am not so much refering to the way we behave (which is in general very nice) but by the way people come in here and fling insults and uneducated sentences at us like we are some bullseye board in a circus and how we carry on through it day after day.

Many dont care to educate themselves on the IT, they simply come in here with some outdated reasoning and claim the IT has been disproven and that we can all go home without ever fact checking or anything.

We have to sit through it all because because if we start to reply to harshly we risk getting the entire thread closed and I am not suprised that some people crack at times.

Is it okay what they write then? No. Is it okay that people come in here to do some verbal mudslinging (not saying you are one these)? Even less so.

I realy dont understand why those who dont believe in IT cant just leave us in peace. We are simply trying to follow the breadcrump trail and make some good of an ending in which many were disapointed. What is it in this that make people so upset? Can someone answer this?

I will agree with you on that
A remark: I do not follow closely ME news anymore. I stopped caring after BW refused to change the ending (acknowledge mistakes) in any meaningful way. And I can not be blamed for all attacks, I didnt read all the fracking 7-something hundered pages of this thread. I do not know if people are overexagerratin with attacks on IT group. All I see is a thread which I red start and few last pages, wanted to chip in and found myself in hostile territory. So whatever happened before doesnt matter, my experience is this thread holds some rude people (most of them I can come to terms with it seems, after some initial friction) - this is how it looks like, especially thanks to Rifneno.
I lost my desire for conversation or learning anything about this v3 thread, neither will I expose you to my posts and prolong your torment.

FYI: I am not a teenager by a longshot. But whatever, I am dead tired fter work, this conversation serves nothing.

Modifié par hangmans tree, 03 septembre 2012 - 04:07 .

[Restrider]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Norlond wrote...

paxxton wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Norlond wrote...

If you don't have some super secret private forum you invite people to, it's almost impossible to have a discussion on an adequately intelellectual level... Anyone got some super secret private forum you could invite us ITers to?

There is one that was made during thread mk 1, but it's pretty much dead now.

LOL. I didn't know that.

Didn't know that either, I was lurking back in Mark I but never came across an IT forum

Then again, BW would be sad if their most loyal fans just leave the BSN

Daryslash wrote...

Didn't some of the developers, without
noticing, already confirmed that it is, in fact, rebar over the place in
the breath scene?

Mike Gamble said something like that I think

Here's the official BSN group: http://social.biowar...oup/7365/#group

I can invite long-standing members of the thread with "good character" I.E. no trolls.

Or you can subscribe. It's cool...

Hey, I'm quite new to BSN. Does it make a difference if I join or I am invited by someone else?
Well, I already joined/subscribed by myself.

[RavenEyry]

Rifneno's always like that. Don't take what he says to heart too much.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

RavenEyry wrote...

Vorcha rocket launchers can kill Shep in a couple of hits but obviously the citadel explosion is survivable because I say so.

I think game mechanics is a bad comparision

But a very different comparision and one I have made before is to the Hiroshima Atomic Bomb.

More precisely take a look at these numbers: The Hiroshima Atomic Bomb´s actual fireball, like what we see the Citadel beeing engulfed by was "just" around 400m in diameter, but the heat ignited a firestorm with a diameter of 3.2 km. The shockwave of the same explosion caused damage to buildings in roughly the same area.

I know different rules are in place in space, but the fireball we see is engulfing the place Shepard is or at least nearly engulfing it and considering the effects of a fireball "just" 400m in diameter what do people think will happen to Shepard when the fireball is kilometers in diameter and he is within, what, 1 km of the center?

[BatmanTurian]

hangmans tree wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

hangmans tree wrote...

Surely, by the behaviour of some IT supporters you cant blame other interlocutors to have the whole support group in low esteem.

You did not just say that...

No his response was not well mannered at all and I dont approve it, but if we go by general behavior this single thread should be the most esteemed thread on the entire forum with great gold signs and all. I am not so much refering to the way we behave (which is in general very nice) but by the way people come in here and fling insults and uneducated sentences at us like we are some bullseye board in a circus and how we carry on through it day after day.

Many dont care to educate themselves on the IT, they simply come in here with some outdated reasoning and claim the IT has been disproven and that we can all go home without ever fact checking or anything.

We have to sit through it all because because if we start to reply to harshly we risk getting the entire thread closed and I am not suprised that some people crack at times.

Is it okay what they write then? No. Is it okay that people come in here to do some verbal mudslinging (not saying you are one these)? Even less so.

I realy dont understand why those who dont believe in IT cant just leave us in peace. We are simply trying to follow the breadcrump trail and make some good of an ending in which many were disapointed. What is it in this that make people so upset? Can someone answer this?

I will agree with you on that
A remark: I do not follow closely ME news anymore. I stopped caring after BW refused to change the ending (acknowledge mistakes) in any meaningful way. And I can not be blamed for all attacks, I didnt read all the fracking 7-something hundered pages of this thread. I do not know if people are overexagerratin with attacks on IT group. All I see is a thread which I red start and few last pages, wanted to chip in and found myself in hostile territory. So whatever happened before doesnt matter, my experience is this thread holds some rude people (most of them I can come to terms with it seems, after some initial friction) - this is how it looks like, especially thanks to Rifneno.
I lost my desire for conversation or learning anything about this v3 thread, neither will I expose you to my posts and prolong your torment.

We get rude because we are attacked on a daily basis. Admittedly, that is no excuse, but we are honest and blunt here and say what we mean and feel. If it offends someone, it's that person's problem unless Bioware says we were wrong to go that far. But you have to understand that we have a siege mentality because we are constantly under siege and if someone comes in and declares IT wrong without proof or argumentation to prove it, that person earns our ire.

[RavenEyry]

EDIT: @Raistlin
I know, I know, gameplay and story segregation. I was just pointing out that Shepard has never been some kind of indestructible superman. They do so well because they are skilled and charismatic, not because they're Duke Nukem.

Modifié par RavenEyry, 03 septembre 2012 - 04:09 .

[Ithurael]

[quote]BatmanTurian wrote...

[quote=gunslinger_ruiz]
Thought I'd post my comparison image posts from my sig here, mostly just for reference when I'm not around. Hopefully the img code works here, if not I'll just edit with links.

-----

Ladies, Gentlemen, the following is a comparison of the "cable" like objects in Shepard's Breath and Reaper Cable to show that it is not likely to be Rebar. Please be warned there are many images to follow, please be sure to right click and view image to see full size.


Open new windows, compare them side by side if you must, but you can clearly see the all-too similar grooves and indentations and chipped away concrete in each screen. Yes, there are grooved lines in some structures on the Citadel, but they do not match the patterns as closley as the London rubble does nor does anything on Citadel appear to have concrete inside of it. The proof is above, take it lightly.

-------


[/quote]

ANother interesting point I am trying to see is if those cables you see around shep in the breath scene are in the conduit run.

Those cables only are on the citadel from what I have seen. I have not seen those cables in the conduit run at all.

I think if we can find those cables in the conduit run IT should be fine.

Though - what the future is for merizan's tweets, priestly's statements, and tully's statement on post ME3 ending DLC we shall see.

ME4?

[BatmanTurian]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Vorcha rocket launchers can kill Shep in a couple of hits but obviously the citadel explosion is survivable because I say so.

I think game mechanics is a bad comparision

But a very different comparision and one I have made before is to the Hiroshima Atomic Bomb.

More precisely take a look at these numbers: The Hiroshima Atomic Bomb´s actual fireball, like what we see the Citadel beeing engulfed by was "just" around 400m in diameter, but the heat ignited a firestorm with a diameter of 3.2 km. The shockwave of the same explosion caused damage to buildings in roughly the same area.

I know different rules are in place in space, but the fireball we see is engulfing the place Shepard is or at least nearly engulfing it and considering the effects of a fireball "just" 400m in diameter what do people think will happen to Shepard when the fireball is kilometers in diameter and he is within, what, 1 km of the center?

I know, it's beyond illogical to believe Shepard would survive that beyond speculating about plot armor.

[GethPrimeMKII]

Do they not teach physics in high school anymore?

[MaximizedAction]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Do they not teach physics in high school anymore?

Doesn't matter, most kids probably see physics (and math) as school stuff, i.e. when not in school it's not important or applicable enough.

Or that's how I assumed everyone to be when I was in school.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 03 septembre 2012 - 04:17 .

[BatmanTurian]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Do they not teach physics in high school anymore?

It's a pain explaining it to people who are willfully ignorant.

[desert_beagle]

I was watching this thread last night during The Twilight God's rather unconvincing rant about how explosions in space do this blah blah blah. I couldn't post because I was laughing too hard.

On the speculative note. The EC destroy did change the relays to being only severely damaged instead of destroyed. Okay,so their use is still out of the question until they are fixed. The only problem I have, and with what Starbrat said about fixing them is that only the Protheans were ever close to building their own mass relay, the Conduit, and it only worked one way.

So, how can anyone during this cycle hope to repair something if they have no idea how it works. If you can't replicate the technology, you certainly can't repair it and expect it to function exactly as it did before.

I also have a problem with the literallist view of the Starbrat. How does a bajillion year old AI have the form and voice of a possessed 22nd earth century nine year old? The logic to explain it takes us back to the AI getting inside Shepard's head, we know it is a Reaper, and therefore it can't be trusted.