80611 réponses à ce sujet

[paxxton]

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

I gave up on trying to catch up like 10 pages ago.
The main debate there was about how leviathan trivializes the reapers and proves the existebce of the catalyst.

The one thing i don't understand is why all those people fail to take into account the possibility that IF it is true, the catalyst is inside our dream/hallucination simply because levithan told us about the concept for such a thing. Remeber- the leviathan happens before we meet the catalyst. This way the ending sequence consists ENTIRELY of the facts and notions previosly known to Shepard. It may not even be harbinger affecting him - he just smashed his head and the indoctrination that was aleady in him puts up this image. Without any influence from the outside. Before leviathan there was a doubt in that since the whole catalyst thing seemed to be right out of the blue and thus over imposed - but now, it isn't.

Of course. Why haven't I thought about it? But Harbinger does influence the dream. Shepard's memories give voice to his words.

Not necesserely. It could just be shepards mind infected with the indoctrination turning on him. With the addition of the leviathan DLC to the story, it Harbinger may yet have nothing to do with the dream.  You realy could add a "Hunt down the Harbinger" DLC - in which you track down or lure harbinger into a trap and destroy him - and have still the same ending - with just some other generic reaper guardnig the beam - it won't brake the narrative. 

But it would diminish what is already an almost non-existent role of Harbinger in ME3. Seems a bit far-fetched to me. Besides, Harbinger as a Leviathan Reaper can create an artificial environment from Shepard's memories (the Collector base, Anderson, TIM, the child, the Shadow Broker's ship).

Modifié par paxxton, 03 septembre 2012 - 10:15 .

[spotlessvoid]

byne wrote...

hangmans tree wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...


Someone else handle this guy. I might post something I'll regret.

What? out of arguments? Only slurs and insults left in the vacobulary?

Why is it that whenever someone decides they no longer wish to continue a conversation, the other party always assumes they're the de facto winner?

I could argue with someone for hours that the moon is in fact just the back of the sun, and when they give up, because they simply no longer wish to talk with me, it doesnt make me correct.

Wait, what? It isn't?

[demersel]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

demersel wrote...

Not necessary. It could just be shepards mind infected with the indoctrination turning on him. With the addition of the leviathan DLC to the story, it Harbinger may yet have nothing to do with the dream.  You realy could add a "Hunt down the Harbinger" DLC - in which you track down or lure harbinger into a trap and destroy him - and have still the same ending - with just some other generic reaper guardnig the beam - it won't brake the narrative. 

If IT is wrong, I would love that DLC!  I bet tons of others would too. Anyway, I should go. See you later.

I would love this DLC regardless of whether IT is wrong/true.  It really doesn't affect IT being wrong/true and does no depend on it being wrong/true.

[Dwailing]

spotlessvoid wrote...

So basically Dwailing:
The Leviathan don't recognize the right to self determination of synthetics so view anything but absolute obedience is viewed as rebellion.
The Leviathan and AI view organics as hardware and software respectively hence failing to understand organics.
And the AI/Leviathan have assumed their view based on their original organic vs synthetic conflict, and not from the history of the cycles

Am I getting it right?

Your first and third thoughts are right on the button. The second thought is something I should comment on. The Leviathans would most likely view themselves as both hardware and software, but since they view other species as tools, and since they can control other races by kicking their minds out of their bodies, they might view hardware and software as being less inseparable than most other organic races. This might lead to The Intelligence viewing the preservation of software as equalling the preservation of the race. Or at least, that's what I'm thinking.

I'd add more, but I'm operating from my phone right now. I'll go back later and clarify a few things in the blog post tomorrow.

[hangmans tree]

byne wrote...

hangmans tree wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...


Someone else handle this guy. I might post something I'll regret.

What? out of arguments? Only slurs and insults left in the vacobulary?

Why
is it that whenever someone decides they no longer wish to continue a
conversation, the other party always assumes they're the de facto
winner?

I could argue with someone for hours that the moon is in
fact just the back of the sun, and when they give up, because they
simply no longer wish to talk with me, it doesnt make me correct.

I provided arguments that would justify Shep surviving a smaller explosion. In response I get a 'threat' of posting something inapropriate... But I see you all play in the same band, deaf to reasoning, or will to try and actually have a dispute/conversation.
I could assume your stance and ask, if you dont wanna accept my arguments and respond to them should I consider myself wrong? So - I am wrong and you are right, you are on higher moral ground and wish not to talk to me = I am wrong and spouting nonsense? Yes?

Modifié par hangmans tree, 03 septembre 2012 - 10:15 .

[FreddyCast]

byne wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

Hey byne,
Have you seen my IT video yet,
Here it is:
Enter if you dare
If you like it and believe it worthy of the IT name, add it to your post.

I will watch it soon, I promise. I just dont have the time to watch a long video right now, though.

Alright take your time.
*1 week passes*
*1 month passes*
*6 months pass*
*1 year passes*
* a lifetime passes*

[byne]

FreddyCast wrote...

byne wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

Hey byne,
Have you seen my IT video yet,
Here it is:
Enter if you dare
If you like it and believe it worthy of the IT name, add it to your post.

I will watch it soon, I promise. I just dont have the time to watch a long video right now, though.

Alright take your time.
*1 week passes*
*1 month passes*
*6 months pass*
*1 year passes*
* a lifetime passes*

SEASONS CHANGE, TIME PASSES BY!

[paxxton]

LOL.

[BatmanTurian]

hangmans tree wrote...

byne wrote...

hangmans tree wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...


Someone else handle this guy. I might post something I'll regret.

What? out of arguments? Only slurs and insults left in the vacobulary?

Why
is it that whenever someone decides they no longer wish to continue a
conversation, the other party always assumes they're the de facto
winner?

I could argue with someone for hours that the moon is in
fact just the back of the sun, and when they give up, because they
simply no longer wish to talk with me, it doesnt make me correct.

I provided arguments that would justify Shep surviving a smaller explosion. In response I get a 'threat' of posting something inapropriate... But I see you all play in the same band, deaf to reasoning, or will to try and actually have a dispute/conversation.
I could assume your stance and ask, if you dont wanna accept my arguments and respond to them should I consider myself wrong? So - I am wrong and you are right, you are on higher moral ground and wish not to talk to me = I am wrong and spouting nonsense? Yes?

I've already destroyed all of your arguments over and over again, but you keep repeating them. Strangely enough, I know it's wierd, but that might make someone angry enough to stop debating with you.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

hangmans tree wrote...

- By reinforcing the skeleton with a synthetic weave, bones can be made
almost unbreakable. In the event of bone trauma, medi-gel conduits allow
for bone regenerations in a matter of days.
- Perforating the muscles with micro-fibers increases overall strength and
decreases the potential for muscle damage from exertion.
- Strong synthetic fibers can be woven through the skin, dramatically
reducing damage taken from most attacks. These fibers also act as a
medi-gel conduit, improving healing.

I dont see anything in there about handling burn wounds inflicted by a few million degrees of heat, do you? No, because such exposure dosent leave anything of the human body, augmentet or not.

Oh and in case you want to use the Citadel is not broken agrument, remember this little bit. The Citadel is composed of the same material as the Mass Relays which are neigh indestructable. Though i doubt the Citadel can enter the Stasis like defense of a Relay, we still know by fact that even with the strongest weapons in Mass Effect aka Dreadnought main cannons, would take days of continued bombardment to even damage the armor of the Ciatdel. Oh and in case you forgot an average Dreadnoughts main cannon hits with the force of a nuke.

So it is not unfeasible the Citadel is intact in some way from the epxlosion, in fact the mere fact that the explosion can penetrate and destroy the Citadel is a testimony to the explosions strength.

Not that any of this matters as Shepard is an an area open to space where air is only kept in my a Mass Effect field, fun fact Mass Effect fields do stop outside heat and flames.

Now crossreferencing with the fact that the fire ball engulfs a mile wide area and knowing the approximate location of Shepard  we can safely conclude Shepard is within that fireball with only a (useless) mass effect field between him and the heat.

The size of the fireball makes trivilaizes any guesses of how much heat is in it as it is way beyond the point where human flesh and probably anything not made of the Citadel super material is turned to slag or outright vaporized.

Oh and just because I love to make this comparsion. The Nuke dropped on Hrisohima created a fireball 400m in diameter. The heat of that fireball created a firestorm which destroyed nearly everything within 3.2 km.

Keep that in mind the next time you look at the explosion at the end.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 03 septembre 2012 - 10:29 .

[byne]

hangmans tree wrote...

byne wrote...

hangmans tree wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...


Someone else handle this guy. I might post something I'll regret.

What? out of arguments? Only slurs and insults left in the vacobulary?

Why
is it that whenever someone decides they no longer wish to continue a
conversation, the other party always assumes they're the de facto
winner?

I could argue with someone for hours that the moon is in
fact just the back of the sun, and when they give up, because they
simply no longer wish to talk with me, it doesnt make me correct.

I provided arguments that would justify Shep surviving a smaller explosion. In response I get a 'threat' of posting something inapropriate... But I see you all play in the same band, deaf to reasoning, or will to try and actually have a dispute/conversation.
I could assume your stance and ask, if you dont wanna accept my arguments and respond to them should I consider myself wrong? So - I am wrong and you are right, you are on higher moral ground and wish not to talk to me = I am wrong and spouting nonsense? Yes?

If there was only the small explosion, that'd be all well and good, but theres also a second gigantic explosion that I'm far more concerned about.

[demersel]

paxxton wrote...

But it would diminish what is already an almost non-existent role of Harbinger in ME3. Seems a bit far-fetched to me. Besides, Harbinger as a Leviathan Reaper creates an artificial environment from Shepard's memories (the Collector base, Anderson, TIM, the child, the Shadow Broker's ship).

Sorry, I don't understand. How would a whole 3-5 hours DLC dedicated solely to Harbinger diminish his role?

Harbinger could do that. Yes. But really Shepard's own mind infected with indoctrination could do so just as well. At this point we can't really say that it is one way or another. All i'm saying, that after Leviathan DLC it is now entirely possible for Shepard's own mind to create the whole ending sequence dream all by it's own, with out any outside influence by the leviathan. At this point Shepard already has all the pieces. And it would be so much more symbolic if, in the end, his strongest and most dangereous enemy is his own mind. (and thus pure indoctrination itlself.)

This way we don't even need the post ending DLC. - we will do everything needed to defeat the reapers (take back omega, kill off harbinge, + something else) in the DLCs that take place during the game, before the cronos station. And then will just go to take earth back. And the real end battle would be (as it is now) - for Shepard himself. He will be the final battlefield. And his enemy would be his own mind turning against him. It is all just speculation - but it rreally fits perfectly. 

[Home run MF]

hangmans tree wrote...

byne wrote...

hangmans tree wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...


Someone else handle this guy. I might post something I'll regret.

What? out of arguments? Only slurs and insults left in the vacobulary?

Why
is it that whenever someone decides they no longer wish to continue a
conversation, the other party always assumes they're the de facto
winner?

I could argue with someone for hours that the moon is in
fact just the back of the sun, and when they give up, because they
simply no longer wish to talk with me, it doesnt make me correct.

I provided arguments that would justify Shep surviving a smaller explosion. In response I get a 'threat' of posting something inapropriate... But I see you all play in the same band, deaf to reasoning, or will to try and actually have a dispute/conversation.
I could assume your stance and ask, if you dont wanna accept my arguments and respond to them should I consider myself wrong? So - I am wrong and you are right, you are on higher moral ground and wish not to talk to me = I am wrong and spouting nonsense? Yes?

Have you ever tried banging your head to a wall? Everyone gets tired of arguing about the same over and over.
Both of you have a different point of view, you will not agree on it why don't you move on?

[paxxton]

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

But it would diminish what is already an almost non-existent role of Harbinger in ME3. Seems a bit far-fetched to me. Besides, Harbinger as a Leviathan Reaper creates an artificial environment from Shepard's memories (the Collector base, Anderson, TIM, the child, the Shadow Broker's ship).

Sorry, I don't understand. How would a whole 3-5 hours DLC dedicated solely to Harbinger diminish his role?

Harbinger could do that. Yes. But really Shepard's own mind infected with indoctrination could do so just as well. At this point we can't really say that it is one way or another. All i'm saying, that after Leviathan DLC it is now entirely possible for Shepard's own mind to create the whole ending sequence dream all by it's own, with out any outside influence by the leviathan. At this point Shepard already has all the pieces. And it would be so much more symbolic if, in the end, his strongest and most dangereous enemy is his own mind. (and thus pure indoctrination itlself.)

This way we don't even need the post ending DLC. - we will do everything needed to defeat the reapers (take back omega, kill off harbinge, + something else) in the DLCs that take place during the game, before the cronos station. And then will just go to take earth back. And the real end battle would be (as it is now) - for Shepard himself. He will be the final battlefield. And his enemy would be his own mind turning against him. It is all just speculation - but it rreally fits perfectly. 

Well, it doesn't fit. There are no self-induced hallucinations with respect to indoctrination in the lore of ME. Leviathan is an external catalyst that creates images inside Shepard's head. In the ending it's not Shepard who has to have all the pieces but Harbinger who uses his memories to create the dream. Harbinger is instrumental in making IT have any sense. You can't put a random, non-Leviathan Reaper there.

[TSA_383]

Norlond wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

https://twitter.com/...683116576178178

"@BioEvilChris i member mr sheen sayin in ME3 preview 'im not done yet'.. Curious! We never actually see wot happens to TIM if shep is indoc"

"@BioEvilChris im jealous u see the bigger picture and we dont"

"@comicbookguy_UK The joys of being an employee. ;)"

Just thought it was interesting.

nevermind. was reading your twitter convo wrong. Yeah they're not going to give up anything on twitter.

I'm not even sure if Chris knows what's coming, he's "just" community manager after all

I'm sure he knows more than we do.

Seems like Omega DLC is already some way into production. Surely that's Bioware's last big chance to salvage ME3 in the eyes of most of the fanbase?

Here's what I think:

-Leviathan was the DLC that clarifies the motivations of the reapers and explains their origins.
-Omega will clarify the motivations of cerberus (there is no way we know everything about TIM's plan just yet) and will possibly shed more light on the omega/citadel/crucible relationship (seems likely, given the multiple new citadel levels from the files).

That ties up some of the curious plot points, but what the fans really want is something that impacts the ending.
How do you think the ending is likely to be handled presuming that IT is used to tie up the DLC cycle?

[demersel]

Dwailing wrote...

Your first and third thoughts are right on the button. The second thought is something I should comment on. The Leviathans would most likely view themselves as both hardware and software, but since they view other species as tools, and since they can control other races by kicking their minds out of their bodies, they might view hardware and software as being less inseparable than most other organic races. This might lead to The Intelligence viewing the preservation of software as equalling the preservation of the race. Or at least, that's what I'm thinking.

I'd add more, but I'm operating from my phone right now. I'll go back later and clarify a few things in the blog post tomorrow.

This is all very nice and well thought out, but I really wouldn't look much into Leviathan/catalyst reasoning. 

It is a very nice story and all, but it really doesn't bear any significance to a current situation in the galaxy and it's current problems, and it sure does not change them or fix them.

Yes the event and logic that led to creation of the reapers is stupid and trivial. (because when you thing about it really hard the only thing something like the reapers could possibly be born out would be stupidity, ignorance and arrogance)

The fact that we know who exactly was stupid enough to create thee reapers, by malice or by chance, doesn't take away form the fact that reapers existed for inconcivable amount of time and the were and at this moment still are the force that controls the evolution of all life in the galaxy. (note - not the whole universe. Just in this galaxy as far as we know, which is, compared to the universe is really insignificant). And it sure doesn't change the fact that we need to get rid of them somehow. 

So if you look at it from this angle - there is really no reason in justifying or disproving their logic. 

I don't remember where this is from, some movie:   
- But..but my logic is indisputable!!
- You still gotta die! 

Modifié par demersel, 03 septembre 2012 - 10:34 .

[BatmanTurian]

TSA_383 wrote...

Norlond wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

https://twitter.com/...683116576178178

"@BioEvilChris i member mr sheen sayin in ME3 preview 'im not done yet'.. Curious! We never actually see wot happens to TIM if shep is indoc"

"@BioEvilChris im jealous u see the bigger picture and we dont"

"@comicbookguy_UK The joys of being an employee. ;)"

Just thought it was interesting.

nevermind. was reading your twitter convo wrong. Yeah they're not going to give up anything on twitter.

I'm not even sure if Chris knows what's coming, he's "just" community manager after all

I'm sure he knows more than we do.

Seems like Omega DLC is already some way into production. Surely that's Bioware's last big chance to salvage ME3 in the eyes of most of the fanbase?

Here's what I think:

-Leviathan was the DLC that clarifies the motivations of the reapers and explains their origins.
-Omega will clarify the motivations of cerberus (there is no way we know everything about TIM's plan just yet) and will possibly shed more light on the omega/citadel/crucible relationship (seems likely, given the multiple new citadel levels from the files).

That ties up some of the curious plot points, but what the fans really want is something that impacts the ending.
How do you think the ending is likely to be handled presuming that IT is used to tie up the DLC cycle?

I think they might tie up the refuse ending with conventional victory instead of making it the finger to the fans. I think they would continue after the breath on high ems destroy. I can't think of specifics on the matter, since I don't know where they're going with the story exactly.

They said they wouldn't change the ending, but technically, Stargazer is the ending, not red, blue, green.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 03 septembre 2012 - 10:37 .

[Big G13]

demersel wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Your first and third thoughts are right on the button. The second thought is something I should comment on. The Leviathans would most likely view themselves as both hardware and software, but since they view other species as tools, and since they can control other races by kicking their minds out of their bodies, they might view hardware and software as being less inseparable than most other organic races. This might lead to The Intelligence viewing the preservation of software as equalling the preservation of the race. Or at least, that's what I'm thinking.

I'd add more, but I'm operating from my phone right now. I'll go back later and clarify a few things in the blog post tomorrow.

This is all very nice and well thought out, but I really wouldn't look much into Leviathan/catalyst reasoning. 

It is a very nice story and all, but it really doesn't bear any significance to a current situation in the galaxy and it's current problems, and it sure does not change them or fix them.

Yes the event and logic that led to creation of the reapers is stupid and trivial. (because when you thing about it really hard the only thing something like the reapers could possibly be born out would be stupidity, ignorance and arrogance)

The fact that we know who exactly was stupid enough to create thee reapers, by malice or by chance, doesn't take away form the fact that reapers existed for inconcivable amount of time and the were and at this moment still are the force that controls the evolution of all life in the galaxy. (note - not the whole universe. Just in this galaxy as far as we know, which is, compared to the universe is really insignificant). And it sure doesn't change the fact that we need to get rid of them somehow. 

So if you look at it from this angle - there is really no reason in justifying or disproving their logic. 

I don't remember where this is from, some movie:   
- But..but my logic is indisputable!!
- You still gotta die! 

I think it's from iRobot.

[BatmanTurian]

demersel wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Your first and third thoughts are right on the button. The second thought is something I should comment on. The Leviathans would most likely view themselves as both hardware and software, but since they view other species as tools, and since they can control other races by kicking their minds out of their bodies, they might view hardware and software as being less inseparable than most other organic races. This might lead to The Intelligence viewing the preservation of software as equalling the preservation of the race. Or at least, that's what I'm thinking.

I'd add more, but I'm operating from my phone right now. I'll go back later and clarify a few things in the blog post tomorrow.

This is all very nice and well thought out, but I really wouldn't look much into Leviathan/catalyst reasoning. 

It is a very nice story and all, but it really doesn't bear any significance to a current situation in the galaxy and it's current problems, and it sure does not change them or fix them.

Yes the event and logic that led to creation of the reapers is stupid and trivial. (because when you thing about it really hard the only thing something like the reapers could possibly be born out would be stupidity, ignorance and arrogance)

The fact that we know who exactly was stupid enough to create thee reapers, by malice or by chance, doesn't take away form the fact that reapers existed for inconcivable amount of time and the were and at this moment still are the force that controls the evolution of all life in the galaxy. (note - not the whole universe. Just in this galaxy as far as we know, which is, compared to the universe is really insignificant). And it sure doesn't change the fact that we need to get rid of them somehow. 

So if you look at it from this angle - there is really no reason in justifying or disproving their logic. 

I don't remember where this is from, some movie:   
- But..but my logic is indisputable!!
- You still gotta die! 

The Princess Bride

[demersel]

[quote]paxxton wrote...

[/quote]
Well, it doesn't fit. There are no self-induced hallucinations with respect to indoctrination in the lore of ME. Leviathan is an external catalyst that creates images inside Shepard's head. In the ending it's not Shepard who has to have all the pieces but Harbinger who uses his memories to create the dream. Harbinger is instrumental in making IT have any sense. You can't put a random, non-Leviathan Reaper there.[/quote]

Oh, But there are!  Cerberus crew at the dead reaper. The reaper itself, it's mind was dead, but the crew still got indoctrinated. All other instances of people getting indoctrintated just by artifacts all over ME1 and 2.

What leviathan DLC told us for certain is that Leviathan's enthrallment is a process, that reqieres direct input from the leviathan. It is an action. 

contrary to it, the indoctrination does not reqiere direct input from a reaper. It just happens. it is a process. It does not reqiere the presence of the operator. It is an automated process with a mind of it's own. You could really call it an AI of sorts...oh wait... :innocent:

[BatmanTurian]

Big G13 wrote...

demersel wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Your first and third thoughts are right on the button. The second thought is something I should comment on. The Leviathans would most likely view themselves as both hardware and software, but since they view other species as tools, and since they can control other races by kicking their minds out of their bodies, they might view hardware and software as being less inseparable than most other organic races. This might lead to The Intelligence viewing the preservation of software as equalling the preservation of the race. Or at least, that's what I'm thinking.

I'd add more, but I'm operating from my phone right now. I'll go back later and clarify a few things in the blog post tomorrow.

This is all very nice and well thought out, but I really wouldn't look much into Leviathan/catalyst reasoning. 

It is a very nice story and all, but it really doesn't bear any significance to a current situation in the galaxy and it's current problems, and it sure does not change them or fix them.

Yes the event and logic that led to creation of the reapers is stupid and trivial. (because when you thing about it really hard the only thing something like the reapers could possibly be born out would be stupidity, ignorance and arrogance)

The fact that we know who exactly was stupid enough to create thee reapers, by malice or by chance, doesn't take away form the fact that reapers existed for inconcivable amount of time and the were and at this moment still are the force that controls the evolution of all life in the galaxy. (note - not the whole universe. Just in this galaxy as far as we know, which is, compared to the universe is really insignificant). And it sure doesn't change the fact that we need to get rid of them somehow. 

So if you look at it from this angle - there is really no reason in justifying or disproving their logic. 

I don't remember where this is from, some movie:   
- But..but my logic is indisputable!!
- You still gotta die! 

I think it's from iRobot.

or I could be wrong, i might be thinking of " inconceivable"....

[demersel]

BatmanTurian wrote...
   
- But..but my logic is indisputable!!
- You still gotta die! 

________

The Princess Bride

No. that's not where i saw this. I've never seen thee Princess Bride (which i thing is something i should really do something about )

Modifié par demersel, 03 septembre 2012 - 10:42 .

[Restrider]

hangmans tree wrote...

What? out of arguments? Only slurs and insults left in the vacobulary?

Did you ever read the codex entry to the Citadel? It says that it is by nearly indestructable, you know - Reaper Tech and so on. Now, I estimated the energy of the explosion, yet big parts of the Citadel remain kind of unharmed. This could be explained by the codex entry.

Now a funny question. Do you think Shepard is a Reaper or based on Reaper tech?

[BatmanTurian]

[quote]demersel wrote...

[quote]paxxton wrote...

[/quote]
Well, it doesn't fit. There are no self-induced hallucinations with respect to indoctrination in the lore of ME. Leviathan is an external catalyst that creates images inside Shepard's head. In the ending it's not Shepard who has to have all the pieces but Harbinger who uses his memories to create the dream. Harbinger is instrumental in making IT have any sense. You can't put a random, non-Leviathan Reaper there.[/quote]

Oh, But there are!  Cerberus crew at the dead reaper. The reaper itself, it's mind was dead, but the crew still got indoctrinated. All other instances of people getting indoctrintated just by artifacts all over ME1 and 2.

What leviathan DLC told us for certain is that Leviathan's enthrallment is a process, that reqieres direct input from the leviathan. It is an action. 

contrary to it, the indoctrination does not reqiere direct input from a reaper. It just happens. it is a process. It does not reqiere the presence of the operator. It is an automated process with a mind of it's own. You could really call it an AI of sorts...oh wait... :innocent:... [/quote]

Well, the Reaper can take an active hand (or tentacle) in it once it's begun.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 03 septembre 2012 - 10:44 .

[demersel]

Big G13 wrote...
I think it's from iRobot.

Yes. Thank you. This is where I've seen it. summs up the whole catalyst problem nicely.