mrs.N7 wrote...
Hey guys! Something new over the last 24 hours, or is it still troll-time?
@demersel That convo 20 pages ago was really interesting, even if I didn't understand it completely.
You should do a more detalied post about it. If you want/have time.
It didn't pop into existence spontaneously. They created it purposefully.demersel wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Leviathans created the Intelligence to find a solution. They did not equip it with Indoctrination (which was developed later by the Reapers). The Intelligence itself was bodiless and needed pawns to gather samples for analysis (for that indoctrination wasn't even necessary, maybe brute force). The same pawns might've been used by it when it turned against Leviathans.
I don't know if what I wrote makes any sense.
No. They actually didn't. Listen to leviathan's speech again.
It i's not what he tells you.
What he tells you is this:
They say the were conserned with the problem. THEY sought tou find a solution.
in THEIR search for the solution, they created an A.I. whith a sinlge purpose - "Preservation of organic life at all cost" NOT to find a solution to a whole synthetichs vs organics problem.
etc.
They don't say they MEANT to create an A.I. It might have been created by accident, something they didn't anticipate. And it certainly doesn't say that the A.I. is looking for a solution. They only assume it does, since it was THEIR initial motivation behind the actions that led to the creation of AI.
Ithurael wrote...
You have to think, is the ending SO terribad that you would rather believe it was all a dream (this giving you a game with no resolution to the story) rather than accept the ending face value?
mrs.N7 wrote...
Hey guys! Something new over the last 24 hours, or is it still troll-time?
@demersel That convo 20 pages ago was really interesting, even if I didn't understand it completely.
You should do a more detalied post about it. If you want/have time.
paxxton wrote...
It didn't pop into existence spontaneously. They created it purposefully.
Leviathans created the Intelligence to preserve life at any cost but they forgot that preserving life doesn't have to mean preserving the currently living individuals but the essence (the DNA of species).
Since we are discussing AI this article might be of interest to you:
http://www.time.com/...l#ixzz25Ty8OlXN
Do it. It's interesting even though a bit far-fetched (or I still don't get it).demersel wrote...
mrs.N7 wrote...
Hey guys! Something new over the last 24 hours, or is it still troll-time?
@demersel That convo 20 pages ago was really interesting, even if I didn't understand it completely.
You should do a more detalied post about it. If you want/have time.
Thanks. Maybe i will do that tomorrow, and post it here as well as in a dedicated thread.
paxxton wrote...
You know, Leviathans incorrectly phrased the Intelligence's purpose. They shouldn't have added "at any cost".
On Omega Point and AI, yeah. Well, the former is quite New Age.demersel wrote...
Have you read the articles i linked?
Modifié par Dwailing, 04 septembre 2012 - 09:12 .
paxxton wrote...
You know, Leviathans incorrectly phrased the Intelligence's purpose. They shouldn't have added "at any cost".
Dwailing wrote...
So, what's the general conclusion? Are we listening to Jessica? Are we all crazy? Do we still have a prayer (So to speak.) of being right?
Home run MF wrote...
paxxton wrote...
You know, Leviathans incorrectly phrased the Intelligence's purpose. They shouldn't have added "at any cost".
To be fair Leviathan does not say organic life just life
"To solve this problem, we created an intelligence with the mandate to preserve life at any cost."
demersel wrote...
Dwailing wrote...
So, what's the general conclusion? Are we listening to Jessica? Are we all crazy? Do we still have a prayer (So to speak.) of being right?
please read the conversation on page 740-745.
Agreed. Just wanted to clarify that they seem to have had AI technology prior to the creation of the Intelligence and intended to create it.demersel wrote...
@paxxton
The leviathans might have intende to create an A.I. and might not have intented it. - it is irrelevant to my other points and does not make it any less valid, don't you think?
I don't see the casual relationship (sorry for the fancy lingodemersel wrote...
At any rate. about the creation of A.I. They viewed it as a tool, they view all life as a tool, but they don't view machines as a tool, or they would not concern themselves with preservation of organic life. - you see, machines break their tools. and we can't have that, can we? Leviathans cant control machines (synthetics) - if they could - they wolud simply control the synthetics instead of organics - used them as tools instead.
That means that the A.I. they created would use organics as hardware. Which is again - indoctrination.
) between the first part and the last 2 sentences. The Intelligence had sorta "free will". It was to preserve life but how it would do it was unspecified and left to its discretion. It didn't choose to indoctrinate organics to obey Leviathans' will but instead harvest them all. Also, Leviathans did not enslave the lesser species. Otherwise, they could have never develop machines.Modifié par paxxton, 04 septembre 2012 - 09:26 .
Dwailing wrote...
How does that answer any of my questions?
Dwailing wrote...
So, what's the general conclusion? Are we listening to Jessica? Are we all crazy? Do we still have a prayer (So to speak.) of being right?
paxxton wrote...
It didn't choose to indoctrinate organics to obey Leviathans' will
.
Modifié par demersel, 04 septembre 2012 - 09:35 .
I got the impression from the conversation with Leviathan that Harbinger as a Leviathan Reaper had the ability to enthrall "inherited" from Leviathans and only then, evolving cycle after cycle, it gave rise to indoctrination.demersel wrote...
paxxton wrote...
It didn't choose to indoctrinate organics to obey Leviathans' will
.
I bet the Leviathans were REALLY surpised by this.
Modifié par paxxton, 04 septembre 2012 - 09:40 .
FFZero wrote...
Dwailing wrote...
So, what's the general conclusion? Are we listening to Jessica? Are we all crazy? Do we still have a prayer (So to speak.) of being right?
While IT is still alive and well and could still be a possibility, one that Bioware would be stupid to pass up if they don't have any other plans, I’m more inclined to think that Bioware are building up to a conventional victory DLC for a few reasons.
1. By making a conventional victory possible they don’t ****** off the Pro or Anti-ITers.
2 .Why would they keep adding war assets and recruitable allies like the Leviathans if they don’t have a plan like this? Also why would they add more lines to the Catalyst? It seems like a waste of time/resources that could be put elsewhere.
As for Jessica, don’t listen to a word she, or anyone from Bioware for that matter, says. They’ve been caught in lies more than once, don’t believe anything they say unless it shows up in official announcements.
paxxton wrote...
I got the impression from the conversation with Leviathan that Harbinger as a Leviathan Reaper had the ability to enthrall "inherited" from Leviathans and only then, evolving cycle after cycle, it gave rise to indoctrination.demersel wrote...
paxxton wrote...
It didn't choose to indoctrinate organics to obey Leviathans' will
.
I bet the Leviathans were REALLY surpised by this.
Dwailing wrote...
Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they go this route. Since they reduced the ammount of war assets required to get the Breath Scene, there's no point in adding more assets unless they're going to do something else with them. And here's something that makes me wonder even more about Jessica's posts. It sounds like at least SOME of the people at BioWare don't know she made them. Spotlessvoid asked Michael Gamble about it on Twitter about 6 hours ago, and he seemed confused at first, then didn't respond when spotless clarified. Here're the tweets if anyone's interested:
http://twitter.com/G...049982142345216
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