80611 réponses à ce sujet

[D.Sharrah]

I know people hate on Udina (I am usually one of them)...but I really am torn on whether or not I think he has been a Cerberus mole the whole time. It was obvious that he had a role in the coup attempt. But I always took it as a sign of his desperation...I think that he thought if humanity had control of the Citadel he could have forced the Council Races to help Earth. If you actually go through the conversation options with him (which I think I have only done once, so don't have any exact quotes), he expresses a lot of concern over family and the loss of the Alliance's diplomatic leadership...but I could be wrong.

On the other point - it seems to continue to be a mystery exactly how MP ties into SP. The connections are there, its just really hard to see them and how they can be discerned to have an impact.

[Arashi08]

"A satisfactory reading gaming experience must end with something like, "Now I see how all this fits together!"

What we don't want is the reader gamer becoming bored because the story is predictable.
Or having finished the story, feeling annoyed because none of it adds up or makes sense."

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/5471946

Do you think IT could do this for fans or will people just not care by the time we get closure in some form?

EDIT: not ALL gaming experiences have to end like this of course.  some games can be fun with no story at all.  I'm associating this quote with games that feature a heavy emphasis on story.

Modifié par Arashi08, 06 septembre 2012 - 01:31 .

[Arashi08]

Also this quote, since, if BioWare are still the master storytellers they claim to be, then this makes some sense and may even indirectly support IT imo.

"Life may not add up, or make sense, but stories must. And stories must also present a puzzle that the reader gamer feels he/she can figure out if they just work a little harder at it.
The desire to solve puzzles is one of the most fundamental characteristics of human beings.
And the smart storyteller uses human nature to achieve his objectives."

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/5471946

Just something to speculate about since the thread is at a standstill. 

Modifié par Arashi08, 06 septembre 2012 - 01:31 .

[TheConstantOne]

I was just talking with my roommate about Cerberus's involvement and he had a great idea that seems to further the notion that Synthesis is the Reaper's biggest trap yet.

Ask yourself this question: Where did Cerberus obtain the tech for their cyborg soldiers if the Collector base was destroyed? They have to have some supply source before and during the invasion to keep churning out soldiers like they do. The technology to pull this off may have been contained within the Omega structure. Once the Illusive Man learns of Omega's true nature, he seizes control and discovers technology within the station that allows him to **synthesize** his soldiers. We never explicitly see how his soldiers are implanted. The Omega station may have a Synthesis device hidden in its core that allows for the mass production of Cerberus shock troops.

Whether or not you accept the above speculation, my roommate brought up another very good point. Starbinger implies that Synthesis is a failed solution in the EC. He says something along the lines of, "We have tried...a similar solution in the past. But it didn't work. The organics were not ready."

If the Reapers tried Synthesis before, then they had a device similar to the Crucible before. This suggests that, again, the Reapers left behind the Crucible plans intentionally. Furthermore, Synthesis becomes invalidated for essentially the same reasons as Control. Starbinger claimed that Shepard was different and thus could Control the Reapers even though *everyone else failed.* Now, he has been trapped in the same lie by telling us "Synthesis for every organic didn't work...but don't worry, it will for you."

Thoughts?

[DoomsdayDevice]

pseudonymic wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

I actually thought that the "your civilization can be wiped out with a single thought" was foreshadowing the end. As in, if Shepard goes "I want to control the Reapers!", or  "I choose synthesis!".

which stands true, it definitely connects with the ending. but if we interpret that statement in a literal manner, that just amplifies the strength of leviathans to infinite notions, thus still leaving the question "why didn't they do away with the reapers" unanswered. one leviathan took down one reaper. 3, under that light, could've wiped harbinger and indoctrinated enough people/civilizations to destroy the AI - under their all-mighty claim.

however, as i typed this it occurred to me... if we could take that statement about the single thought as foreshadowing, it validates IT further as support for the theory that it all is happening in shepard's mind.

Well that was exactly my point.

I don't think it's a statement about the Leviathans' power, because as a matter of fact they explain that the Reapers inherited their mind control ability and developed and perfected it to indoctrination.

The fact that the Leviathan mind control is more limited is demonstrated by Shepard dipping in and out of the illusion.

From that I took that the Reapers can create the same kind of visual/auditory illusions from your memories, only they can do it much better. This is another thing about the Leviathan DLC that is really helping IT.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 06 septembre 2012 - 02:07 .

[Iconoclaste]

TheConstantOne wrote...

Ask yourself this question: Where did Cerberus obtain the tech for their cyborg soldiers if the Collector base was destroyed?

Cerberus, just like actual manufacturers, only needed a few samples of the "tech" in order to analyze it and learn how to replicate it. There were plenty of occasions throughout the series to acquire those "samples".

TheConstantOne wrote...

If the Reapers tried Synthesis before, then they had a device similar to the Crucible before.

I think the Catalyst was referring to the "synthesis" that only attained the "obedient husk" level, and in the best cases pawns like Saren. They doubtly could have used a "Crucible" before, since a blast of "space magic" covering and affecting the entire galaxy would not have passed unnoticed by sentients, it's some kind of "supernova" that's hardly concealable. The state of  "readiness" of the "organics" is at a different point when the Crucible is built, since... they built the Crucible. The "pure Reaper synthesis" and the "Crucible+Citadel synthesis" are evidently not the same.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 06 septembre 2012 - 02:24 .

[OH-UP-THIS!]

I'm only biding my time, watching, waiting.........just to see how badly this trainwreck, finishes.

So far the minions have milked the crowds for A: day one DLC, B: MP microskinning, C: promises of more POINTLESS DLC(SP content), as well as future MP skinning.

So I sit back, save my cash, laugh my A** off at pointless discussions about pointless DLC's, and wonder when everyone will finally wakeup and say, "THAT'S IT?!!"

[Gwyphon]

ohupthis wrote...

I'm only biding my time, watching, waiting.........just to see how badly this trainwreck, finishes.

So far the minions have milked the crowds for A: day one DLC, B: MP microskinning, C: promises of more POINTLESS DLC(SP content), as well as future MP skinning.

So I sit back, save my cash, laugh my A** off at pointless discussions about pointless DLC's, and wonder when everyone will finally wakeup and say, "THAT'S IT?!!"

That doesn't sound as fun as possibly fruitless speculation, but what ever floats your boat.

[Arian Dynas]

ohupthis wrote...

I'm only biding my time, watching, waiting.........just to see how badly this trainwreck, finishes.

So far the minions have milked the crowds for A: day one DLC, B: MP microskinning, C: promises of more POINTLESS DLC(SP content), as well as future MP skinning.

So I sit back, save my cash, laugh my A** off at pointless discussions about pointless DLC's, and wonder when everyone will finally wakeup and say, "THAT'S IT?!!"

You're waiting for an "I told you so."

Good for you.

Do you mind going someplace else to ****?

[TheConstantOne]

Iconoclaste wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

Ask yourself this question: Where did Cerberus obtain the tech for their cyborg soldiers if the Collector base was destroyed?

Cerberus, just like actual manufacturers, only needed a few samples of the "tech" in order to analyze it and learn how to replicate it. There were plenty of occasions throughout the series to acquire those "samples".

TheConstantOne wrote...

If the Reapers tried Synthesis before, then they had a device similar to the Crucible before.

I think the Catalyst was referring to the "synthesis" that only attained the "obedient husk" level, and in the best cases pawns like Saren. They doubtly could have used a "Crucible" before, since a blast of "space magic" covering and affecting the entire galaxy would not have passed unnoticed by sentients, it's some kind of "supernova" that's hardly concealable. The state of  "readiness" of the "organics" is at a different point when the Crucible is built, since... they built the Crucible. The "pure Reaper synthesis" and the "Crucible+Citadel synthesis" are evidently not the same.

In regards to your first point, the only "counter argument" I have is that the challenge is not so much obtaining the technology but actually implementing it on the test subject.  It's one thing to turn someone into a husk and quite another to only turn them half way into a husk.  From what I've seen in game (and what I've heard about Paul Grayson, I haven't read the book myself unfortunately) the husk or thrall conversion process largely continues to completion on its own.  The Illusive Man found a way to use Reaper tech and prevent it from completely transforming his minions into Reaper slaves.

So, I mistyped before.  It isn't so much the technology but the method of implementation that is on the table here.  Cerberus could have run multiple tests to master it, sure, but those holograms at the Cerberus base gave the idea that they knew exactly what to do after Grayson.  And he was just one test subject.

This is, again, just speculation.  But Omega could have been the place where Cerberus learned how to utilize the implementation process.

As for your second point, I would like to note that I said the Reapers had a "device similar to the Crucible."  Not a Crucible itself.  If synthesis were to launch from this prior device, it has evidently not functioned as effectively as the actual Crucible because, as you said, organics would notice if green, glowing circuits were to suddenly appear on their bodies.  Omega in this hypothesis is a device *similar* to the Crucible, but is not a Crucible itself and should not be considered as being capable of the Crucible's scope and abilities

[BansheeOwnage]

Hello Arian! *HUG* And hello everyone else. As of today I have school, so I will not be on as much as usual. I have, however, been writing a fairly comprehensive analysis about the EC, which is not related to IT, but rather, from a marking perpective whether or not they passed or failed with it. That will be done tomorrow. I also plan on making some videos for fun. So I may be posting less, but I will try to add more worthwhile content

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 06 septembre 2012 - 04:43 .

[OneWithTheAssassins]

demersel wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...
                Its clear that they percieve Shepard as a threat, but a threat that they can turn to their side. Theyre allowing Shepard to win because his victories unite the last line of resistance for the entire galaxy, and bring them all to one place to be destroyed by turning their uniter  and champion against them.

I think they are already using shepard right from the start of me3 -  building the crucible, which is a trap, gathering all the galactic fleets and resources and bringing it all into a single system , from fhere there is no-escape from...

Nobody ever thought what is that nebula that the citadel was initially at? Perhaps it was a planet once, vaporised by the cruicibles charge off. 

And reapers come and switch off all the relays.... but not this cycle. Yet crucible does exactly this. In all three endings. 

Nobody ever said that they turned off the mass relays right away. And how exaclty did they do it. 

My guess - they do exaclty what they did before - they come in. make a huge mess of the galaxy. Wait until everyone who can fight - get into the war, plant the crucible plans in advance - wait for them to build it and assemble the fleet of the galaxe to come and take back the citadel - whrn they come let them fire the crucible - which vaporises everything in the system, and destroys all the mass relays. slowly harvest the galaxy.  If they can't manage to build the crucible - - just killl them the long way one by one. 

So the Reapers are infact the galaxies greatest trolls.

[Ambrosine333]

So the Reapers are infact the galaxies greatest trolls.

I can agree with that.

Modifié par Ambrosine333, 06 septembre 2012 - 05:10 .

[BansheeOwnage]

magnetite wrote...

Collector General talks about indoctrination

Instead of Harbinger saying "your leaders will beg to serve us", the Collector General says "your leaders will beg to be harvested".

That's werid.

[BansheeOwnage]

Ambrosine333 wrote...

So the Reapers are infact the galaxies greatest trolls.

I can agree with that.

They're trollin' you!

[Bill Casey]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Ambrosine333 wrote...

So the Reapers are infact the galaxies greatest trolls.

I can agree with that.

They're trollin' you!

Reaper Impression

Modifié par Bill Casey, 06 septembre 2012 - 05:17 .

[Ambrosine333]

Bill Casey wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Ambrosine333 wrote...

So the Reapers are infact the galaxies greatest trolls.

I can agree with that.

They're trollin' you!

Reaper Impression

[FreddyCast]

When is episode 2 of Choose Wisely series coming out.

[Gwyphon]

FreddyCast wrote...

When is episode 2 of Choose Wisely series coming out.

I too would like to know.

[jojon2se]

TheConstantOne wrote...
...
...but don't worry, it will for you."

Thoughts?

Well, I fully agree that where some will insist that the "you" in "you are ready" refers to all the people of our cycle, all I can hear is an appeal to Shep's ego.

(EDIT: ...and the player's ego, of course; Our expectations of being "the chosen one" used against us.)

FreddyCast wrote...
When is episode 2 of Choose Wisely series coming out.

Gah! I keep reading that as "Choose Wheatley".

Modifié par jojon2se, 06 septembre 2012 - 08:51 .

[RavenEyry]

Arashi08 wrote...

"A satisfactory reading gaming experience must end with something like, "Now I see how all this fits together!"

What we don't want is the reader gamer becoming bored because the story is predictable.
Or having finished the story, feeling annoyed because none of it adds up or makes sense."

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/5471946

Do you think IT could do this for fans or will people just not care by the time we get closure in some form?

IT makes me understand the game far more than I did on first playthrough. It's just a pity it had to be pointed out to me.

[paxxton]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

magnetite wrote...

Collector General talks about indoctrination

Instead of Harbinger saying "your leaders will beg to serve us", the Collector General says "your leaders will beg to be harvested".

That's werid.

The use of the word "serve" is fishy. Isn't that the same word used by Leviathan in "serving our needs"?

[MaximizedAction]

Wow, I wake up, and we're still on the same page.

But nice catch with the difference in convo with Harbinger/Collector General. It makes sense, though: Collectors didn't really indoctrinate victims, but rather just harvest them. Reapers however, use indoctrination, especially on important persons like leaders, as it seems.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 06 septembre 2012 - 11:25 .

[Rifneno]

demersel wrote...

Glyph is the real shodow broker. And works for the reapers. He planted the crucible plans. He is the traitor on the normandy (through liara).
For all we know - he is the A.I. the leviathans created )))

He is white - the only other time this colour is used in ME universe for something holograohic or virtual - is GLYPH and the Catalyst.
CLYPH has the capacity to assume any form. - he can be set to look like anything.
The dreams start as soon as liara get's on board. (Presumably with GLYPH)
Annd the fact that he says everything as if he's mockking you. (Listen to the first things he say - and then overall)

Agreed. I also want to add that Glyph is likely the reason we found those Crucible plans. Go back to ME2 and talk to Liara on the SB ship. When she's only starting to get settled in, she already says the old SB was looking into the Protheans. He thought there was something else to find. Some way to survive. Since her info pretty much all comes from Glyph, obviously it told her this. And that's what lead to her finding the plans on Mars.

I've even heard it suggested that Glyph purposely got the old SB killed so he could get a new meatpuppet to manipulate into getting the Crucible.

Oh... and why did all this happen? ... Because Liara picked control, that's why!