80611 réponses à ce sujet

[GethPrimeMKII]

I know what scene you're talking about. It doesn't really seem to imply Udina was working with Cerberus. On the surface it seems like he was a pawn to be taken advantage of.

[Norlond]

"Udina is expendable" - TIM

*edit* :ph34r:ed

Modifié par Norlond, 06 septembre 2012 - 06:16 .

[demersel]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Edit: Ah here we are. Jump to 3.40.

Brief rundown:

"The Council is still in Control and Udina is dead" Kai Leng.

"Udina was expendable" - TIM

Seems to imply Udina was working with Cerberus.

Ok. That doesn't actually say that Udina was in on it. It only says that they planned to use him somehow. 

It could be that they wanted get rid of the council, and balme Udina (possibly even by leaving him alive)  - so that there no more alliences and central control  - and humanity is distrasted and turned away from. 

[Iconoclaste]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

pseudonymic wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Ah thanks. Regardless there is zero mention of these implants granting people the ability to control the bodies of others like what TIM does inside the Citadel.

but we have to keep in mind that shepard = project lazarus, and it was never disclosed what exactly was done to him/her. so that's a connection that could explain it?

This would account very well for the first sentence TIM addresses to Shepard on the Citadel, something along the lines of  "I told you, control is the way to go, and a way to control YOU, if needed".

Except that Miranda goes out of the way to specifically tell Shepard in ME3 that she wanted a control chip in him during project Lazarus, but TIM said no.

TIM didn't need a "control chip" if he knew he could use other means to control, which Miranda didn't need to know. That's supporting why TIM was studying and experimenting the "Reaper" way to "control", that doesn't require a "chip" in the target.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 06 septembre 2012 - 06:21 .

[demersel]

council killed, Udina alive - give them chaos and anarchy, + no more help from other races for humanity. If he is left alive - who would believe him he was not involved? Who would ever listen to him. He would be more than killed. He would be destroyed, and the the humanity with him. (in all other races eyes).

I say it were the salarians.

[demersel]

I mean, come on, Cerberus only does five things in ME3 that we know of- steal mars data, attack the salarian facility, try to blow up tuchanka, attack the citadel, and run the sancuary facility

two of those - are in line with the Dalatresses's agenda.
1 - is just gathering data,
1 - gathering forces
1 - a seemigly poinless action, aimed at general destabilisation. (and Illusive man even says, there are other plans in motion, after it fails)

So what were they really up to , when not helping out Dalatress?

[demersel]

There simply MUST be a DLC about cerberus. And i have a feeling it is going to be a HUGE one.

[Home run MF]

demersel wrote...

There simply MUST be a DLC about cerberus. And i have a feeling it is going to be a HUGE one.

Omega

[Iconoclaste]

demersel wrote...

There simply MUST be a DLC about cerberus. And i have a feeling it is going to be a HUGE one.

From the little bits I read in the literature of Mass Effect, Omega would appear to be a perfect place for this. If anything has to happen "before the endings" and not cause a commotion, then investigating Cerberus activities there just prior to the attack on Cronos station could put either salarian politics and Cerberus in darker shades without affecting the final battle around Earth. Dark market providing "illegal collector devices and tech", clues on how Cerberus ever got the knowledge of the Crucible plans being on Mars and such, relayed by salarian intelligence. Cerberus surely needed some source in the Alliance to always be on Shepard's heels.

[pseudonymic]

Home run MF wrote...

demersel wrote...

There simply MUST be a DLC about cerberus. And i have a feeling it is going to be a HUGE one.

Omega

honestly, i think we all hold out hope for too much. 

[demersel]

pseudonymic wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

demersel wrote...

There simply MUST be a DLC about cerberus. And i have a feeling it is going to be a HUGE one.

Omega

honestly, i think we all hold out hope for too much. 

There will be Omega DLC and it is fact. They even forshadowed it in a dedicated comic. 
Just as they forshadowed Lair of the Shadow Broker in a comic, before me2 cane out. (and cerberus was closely involved in both of those)

[pseudonymic]

demersel wrote...

There will be Omega DLC and it is fact. They even forshadowed it in a dedicated comic. 
Just as they forshadowed Lair of the Shadow Broker in a comic, before me2 cane out. (and cerberus was closely involved in both of those)

right, i know. i meant that in an overall sense.

[Iconoclaste]

And the dalatress / TIM pact of mutual assistance (I give you location of plans for Crucible / control device, give me Tuchanka sterility) makes sense, actually.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 06 septembre 2012 - 06:52 .

[demersel]

Fact - there are things happening during ME3 beside the core story, things that we yet don't know about.

That makes me wander....what was happening during ME2 while we were so focused on the collectors?

That huge Minutemen space station, that we get a glimpse of - whhat was it's primary function?

there was some stuff definetly happening on and around Ilos.... 

Modifié par demersel, 06 septembre 2012 - 07:00 .

[TheConstantOne]

Iconoclaste wrote...

demersel wrote...

There simply MUST be a DLC about cerberus. And i have a feeling it is going to be a HUGE one.

From the little bits I read in the literature of Mass Effect, Omega would appear to be a perfect place for this. If anything has to happen "before the endings" and not cause a commotion, then investigating Cerberus activities there just prior to the attack on Cronos station could put either salarian politics and Cerberus in darker shades without affecting the final battle around Earth. Dark market providing "illegal collector devices and tech", clues on how Cerberus ever got the knowledge of the Crucible plans being on Mars and such, relayed by salarian intelligence. Cerberus surely needed some source in the Alliance to always be on Shepard's heels.

I agree.  A salarian black ops group working with Cerberus also fits in perfectly with the attack on the secret Sur'kesh base.

I think an Omega DLC would also be the perfect time to focus on implications of the Collector base decision.  That choice was SORELY under addressed in ME 3, especially given the magnitude of the decision

[demersel]

One other thing - there is an awfull lot of indoctrinated persons in ME3 - like that crazy Hanar, who tried to hack his homeworld defence - what's been indoctrinating people all around? There must be a source, or sources..

[TheConstantOne]

demersel wrote...

Fact - there are things happening during ME3 beside the core story, things that we yet don't know about.

That makes me wander....what was happening during ME2 while we were so focused on the collectors?

That huge Minutemen space station, that we get a glimpse of - whhat was it's primary function?

there was some stuff definetly happening on and around Ilos.... 

Since you bring this up, I would like to point out two things:

1) It seems that TIM has a particular distrust of Liara and really wants to dissuade Shepard from teaming up with her.  Evidence of this: he flat out lies about what she's doing when Shepard asks about her in ME 2.  TIM claims that she works for the Shadow Broker... for a guy with such an intricate web of information, I find it hard to believe that his spies messed up there.  Cerberus passing Liara intel about the Shadow Broker through Shepard later in the game is further proof that his agents have known about her battle for some time.

2) The Alliance did start a half baked effort to investigate the Collectors sometime during the course of ME 2.  James confirms this.  Yet, if I remember correctly, I think James says that Cerberus operatives betrayed the colony he was investigating to the Collectors... so Cerberus was deliberately sabotaging Allaince efforts to solve the Collector problem.

TIM's motives behind each of these points could be any number of reasons.  I'm hoping that any Omega DLC will at least touch on the Cerberus-Collector connection, i.e. what TIM was really interested in about them.  I remain convinced that some Crucible details will be revealed as well...but again these are just my hopes

[demersel]

TheConstantOne wrote...

1) It seems that TIM has a particular distrust of Liara and really wants to dissuade Shepard from teaming up with her.  Evidence of this: he flat out lies about what she's doing when Shepard asks about her in ME 2.  TIM claims that she works for the Shadow Broker... for a guy with such an intricate web of information, I find it hard to believe that his spies messed up there.  Cerberus passing Liara intel about the Shadow Broker through Shepard later in the game is further proof that his agents have known about her battle for some time.

As for the first - liara was an information broker. Yes she was trying to find shadow broker. But that doesn't mean that she wasn't unknowingly forking FOR him at the same time. In fact is very much likely. Remember - barla von says that half of the people who work for shadow broker has no idea they are in fact working for him, or for somebody at all for that matter. 

So i think illusive man telling you that liara works for shadow broker was actually true.  

[DoomsdayDevice]

Iconoclaste wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

pseudonymic wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Ah thanks. Regardless there is zero mention of these implants granting people the ability to control the bodies of others like what TIM does inside the Citadel.

but we have to keep in mind that shepard = project lazarus, and it was never disclosed what exactly was done to him/her. so that's a connection that could explain it?

This would account very well for the first sentence TIM addresses to Shepard on the Citadel, something along the lines of  "I told you, control is the way to go, and a way to control YOU, if needed".

Except that Miranda goes out of the way to specifically tell Shepard in ME3 that she wanted a control chip in him during project Lazarus, but TIM said no.

TIM didn't need a "control chip" if he knew he could use other means to control, which Miranda didn't need to know. That's supporting why TIM was studying and experimenting the "Reaper" way to "control", that doesn't require a "chip" in the target.

In light of this discussion, I have to ask you all to PLEASE check out the link in my signature.

The video takes only 50 seconds.

In short: the sound effect you hear when TIM is 'controlling' Shepard, is actually a full blown Reaper horn if you play it at double speed.

As far as I'm concerned, this means what you actually hear is Harbinger outside of the hallucination. Especially when you realize time is slowed down in dreams. A dream can seem like it is an hour, when in reality only minutes have passed.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 06 septembre 2012 - 07:31 .

[Riot86]

demersel wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Edit: Ah here we are. Jump to 3.40.

Brief rundown:

"The Council is still in Control and Udina is dead" Kai Leng.

"Udina was expendable" - TIM

Seems to imply Udina was working with Cerberus.

Ok. That doesn't actually say that Udina was in on it. It only says that they planned to use him somehow. 

It could be that they wanted get rid of the council, and balme Udina (possibly even by leaving him alive)  - so that there no more alliences and central control  - and humanity is distrasted and turned away from. 

Though I really like the idea of Udina just being a pawn in TIM's game without even knowing it, it doubt this was the case...

Udina must have had some direct connection to the Cerberus coup, otherwise he wouldn't be able to have a (fake) recording of Shepard assasinating the Salarian Counselor: www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Riot86, 06 septembre 2012 - 07:34 .

[demersel]

Riot86 wrote...

demersel wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Edit: Ah here we are. Jump to 3.40.

Brief rundown:

"The Council is still in Control and Udina is dead" Kai Leng.

"Udina was expendable" - TIM

Seems to imply Udina was working with Cerberus.

Ok. That doesn't actually say that Udina was in on it. It only says that they planned to use him somehow. 

It could be that they wanted get rid of the council, and balme Udina (possibly even by leaving him alive)  - so that there no more alliences and central control  - and humanity is distrasted and turned away from. 

Though I really like the idea of Udina just being a pawn in TIM's game without even knowing it, it doubt this was the case..

Udina must have had some direct connection to the Cerberus coup, otherwise he wouldn't be able to have a (fake) recording of Shepard assasinating the Salarian Counselor: www.youtube.com/watch

He might be tricked by it just as much - it was made by kai lengs crew after his attemt failed. 

[Riot86]

demersel wrote...

Riot86 wrote...

demersel wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Edit: Ah here we are. Jump to 3.40.

Brief rundown:

"The Council is still in Control and Udina is dead" Kai Leng.

"Udina was expendable" - TIM

Seems to imply Udina was working with Cerberus.

Ok. That doesn't actually say that Udina was in on it. It only says that they planned to use him somehow. 

It could be that they wanted get rid of the council, and balme Udina (possibly even by leaving him alive)  - so that there no more alliences and central control  - and humanity is distrasted and turned away from. 

Though I really like the idea of Udina just being a pawn in TIM's game without even knowing it, it doubt this was the case..

Udina must have had some direct connection to the Cerberus coup, otherwise he wouldn't be able to have a (fake) recording of Shepard assasinating the Salarian Counselor: www.youtube.com/watch

He might be tricked by it just as much - it was made by kai lengs crew after his attemt failed. 

Don't you get to see the fake vid only if Kai Leng succeded in killing the Counselor?

And from whom did he get the video if not from Kai Leng/Cerberus?

[demersel]

All i'm saying - He's just too perfect as a fallout guy. Nobody really likes, him, everybody know him doing stupid things, he's generally unpleasant, and rude to everybody. But he has no motive. The one that is given is circumstantial and far fetched. .

[demersel]

Riot86 wrote...

Don't you get to see the fake vid only if Kai Leng succeded in killing the Counselor?

And from whom did he get the video if not from Kai Leng/Cerberus?

from citadel security feed, which was hacked by cerberus, but he might have been unaware of this fact. 
I don't know who he got it from. And neither do you. Cerberus sending him a video doesn't make that much sense either. 

Modifié par demersel, 06 septembre 2012 - 07:42 .

[Riot86]

demersel wrote...

All i'm saying - He's just too perfect as a fallout guy. Nobody really likes, him, everybody know him doing stupid things, he's generally unpleasant, and rude to everybody. But he has no motive. The one that is given is circumstantial and far fetched. .

Can't argue with that...his motive is indeed kinda far fetched and somewhat out of character...Udina knows he wouldn't get any help from the other races if Cerberus would kill the Counsil and spare Udina - and Udina is not stupid, he knows that he needs the Turian, Asari and Salarian support to retake Earth.

So yeah...maybe you're right and he really didn't work for Cerberus after all 

Modifié par Riot86, 06 septembre 2012 - 07:53 .