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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#19751
BansheeOwnage

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byne wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

HUMAN. YOU HAVE EARNED THE ATTENTION OF THOSE INFINITELY YOUR GREATER. THAT WHICH YOU KNOW AS "THE INCOMING WALL OF TEXT" IS YOUR THREAD'S SALVATION THROUGH DESTRUCTION. PREPARE YOURSELF FOR ITS ARRIVAL!
ಠಠಠ_ಠಠಠ


But you couldnt even properly quote estebanus in the post above this.

How am I supposed to believe anything you say? :unsure:

......................................................................

Edit: There we go! :D Top!

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 07 septembre 2012 - 12:52 .


#19752
BansheeOwnage

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Pass or Fail?: The Extended Cut

Note: I will refer to the child using his original title: The Guardian. I will also include information about the Leviathan DLC in this. If you don’t want spoilers, don’t read the marked sections.

So, I decided to try to objectively asses the performance of the Extended Cut DLC to see how it stacked up in actuality compared to their promises. That said, I know some will be subjective, so feel free to disagree, but I’m writing this from my point of view. I also want to note that this is strictly written from a literal point of view, so no IT, WNT, or other alternate-reality interpretations apply here. For the most part, this is not trying to persuade you to pick certain choices, nor will it touch the moral and ethical debates about the choices.

What did the EC promise? Simple. 2 things: For us to be able to see the consequences of our choices on the galaxy, and to provide additional closure.

Impacts of choices: The EC, in my opinion, did an merely adequate job of showing the impacts. It was passable, though a lot of parts were vague.

Destroy: Basically Hackett’s entire speech is vague. He doesn’t mention the Geth or EDI once. Why not? They have to die in this ending, supposedly. So why not mention them. On that note, why doesn’t he mention Shepard? I shouldn’t even have to say this. There is even a low EMS version of this ending, where Shepard dies. He doesn’t mention Shepard’s sacrifice in the low EMS version, and doesn’t mention any of his/her achievements is high EMS. How do you have an ending to a trilogy like this and not even mention the main character in the end speech? He also states quite confidently about how they can rebuild. When did they learn how to make mass relays? In fact, I remember a certain asari matriarch who suggested studying them, and she was essentially laughed at, which makes sense, considering the relays are reaper tech; the reapers wouldn’t want any organics to learn their secrets. So we can assume there has been next to no studying of relays. How would the decimated survivors be able to study and build them? A better question: how would they coordinate linking the relays, without the communication necessary to do so? The Crucible is a weapon battery precise enough to change the “matrix” of synthetic and organic life down to the DNA, yet it can’t target only reapers in destroy? Really? Levy spoilers: I don’t know about you, but I think the leviathans are just as dangerous as the reapers. With the reapers gone, and the galaxy in utter ruins, this is a perfect opportunity for the leviathans to retake their former throne. Since there are no slides involving leviathans (why?) we can only guess at what happens, adding to the vagueness of this choice. [/Levy spoilers]

Control: This one probably wins for being explained the best. It is much better in EC than it was originally. It definitely still has some vague elements though. For instance: does Shepard replace the Guardian, or just exist at the same time? If he betrayed his creators, who’s to say he won’t betray Shepard too? The Guardian stated that he was the “collective intelligence of all reapers”. Does this mean when Shepard becomes the new reaper-guiding AI, that (s)he becomes the reapers? Or does it mean Shepard kills the reapers and personally uses all of their bodies? Does Shepard simply replace the Guardian and the reapers simply obey him/her? An interesting question: If the crucible does not discriminate, and therefore targets all synthetics in destroy, this leaves us with 2 options.

1. Shepard also controls the Geth, as well as EDI, because the control beam will not discriminate and will target all synthetics. If the destroy beam also destroys/disables VI systems as well as ships and weapons as stated by the Guardian., that would also mean Shepard should basically control all starships and computers, as well as weapons. That’s a lot of power for one entity.

2. The crucible does in fact discriminate, and will only target reapers. This in turn means the Guardian was lying to you.

Levy spoilers:We really have no idea how powerful the leviathans are, but we do know they can destroy a sovereign-class reaper with their minds. I can see how this could be problematic for Shepard in control. I also think they would employ thralls to counter Shep-reapers, seeing as how they are essentially the same as normal reapers. Not good. [/Levy spoilers]

Refuse: This is an extremely vague ending “choice”. It raises about as many questions as synthesis. The reason many people can’t really achieve consensus about this ending is because it is too vague to make conclusions about. I mean, it itself is vague as a choice, because we a lot of stuff is implied to happen, but we don’t get to see anything. For instance, what does Shepard do after refusing to activate the crucible? Does (s)he just stand there, watching the allied fleets get destroyed? It’s well established that Shepard’s radio is acting extremely inconsistently is the ending, but why doesn’t Shepard try to contact Hackett at any point? It can be assumed that everyone[/i] dies in this ending, but it does not show anything. No heroic last stands of important characters, no fleets being destroyed save one shot of a reaper destroying an alliance vessel. The only way to know what for sure what happens in this ending, is to look through the game files to show all squadmates being dead. That’s not what I would call a clear ending. It is not clear why the Guardian continues to fight the fleets if he wants Shepard to choose an option. Even if Shepard refused, why wouldn’t he just get any other person to do it? How did Liara (especially if she’s dead) manage to have the time capsules say that the Crucible didn’t work? How would she even know that? If it fired, but didn’t kill the reapers, it would be logical to assume it didn’t work. However, for all anyone but Shepard knows, the crucible, for whatever reason, simply didn’t fire. That’s no reason to say that. How did the next cycle defeat the reapers? I know Mike Gamble said that, they use the crucible, but that is a fallacy. Also, Twitter =/= canon. Here's how I see it:

1. The next cycle used the crucible to beat the reapers. Which option did they pick? They didn’t pick synthesis (no glowing things), so presumably destroy. But it's so vague. We fought a battle (and lost horribly) so the next cycle could win 50000 years later? Makes no sense. Plus if they used the crucible to beat them that just makes refuse pointless. Actually, that means in half of the endings (destroy and refuse) Shepard is too stubborn to accept their enemies logic...

2. How did they use the crucible? It's completely implausible that the reapers would allow them to come anywhere near that end. They even knew about its existence “several cycles ago” and failed to eliminate the evidence. Logic would dictate they would try much harder next time. This leaves 2 possibilities:
A. The crucible is of reaper design, used every cycle to trick the resistance. They next cycle then uses that reaper tech. Great idea.
B. The reapers are retarded and even though they failed at hiding the crucible before, they didn't learn from their mistakes and let the next cycle use it?

3. Ignore Gamble; they didn't use the crucible. Basically impossible. The vanguard would not let them amass such an enormous fleet large enough to take on the reaper armada.

4. They only reason the council cycle did so well was because of Shepard, Sovereign's failures, and a lot of luck. The reapers wouldn't let that happen again.
 
5. Levy spoilers: I’ll let you all wonder how the Leviathans existing and their heavy influence would do to this. [/Levy spoilers]

Synthesis: It is close to refuse in terms of vagueness, but probably takes the cake for Most vague ending ever. Of all time™. Why doesn’t EDI mention Shepard in it? Surely it is only because of Shepard that synthesis is achieved. What a nice send-off... It doesn’t do a good job showing how synthesis actually changes things, besides adding green circuit boards to everything. How does it work? There isn’t even a codex entry on this attempting to explain it. What are its actual impacts, besides, apparently, creating instant utopia? Are plants sentient now? If not, then is it saying plants could never become sentient? What about the Thorian? And if plants do become sentient, what does that do to herbivores? Are they murdering other sentient life when they eat? The same can now be asked about all life. How do we eat anything, if we’re murdering it? Or does synthesis make food no longer a necessity? Or, once again, is it implying certain things just can’t evolve? That’s not how evolution works. Nor does evolution just stop as soon as we get circuit boards. If synthesis doesn’t make all humans able to see in infrared, use echo-location, or grow gills then it is not the end of evolution. I don’t even think there is an end to evolution. Maybe we don’t need to breath anymore in synthesis? EDI also mentioned that the reapers, and the species that they are based on, are now connected to all of us. Does that remind anyone of indoctrination? This would also contradict what Shepard said earlier about this topic.

“You-– Whatever species you came from, before the reapers decided to preserve them? They’re dead. They died thousands of years ago. *Reaper dies* And now they can rest in peace.” – Shepard

So was Shepard wrong, and the reapers do actually preserve species properly? Or was the Guardian wrong? If the latter is true, we should doubt much more than just that thought. Many questions.

Levy spoilers: Again, we have no slides of the leviathans, so we can only guess as to what they would try to do in synthesis. I am going to take a wild guess here and say they would definitely not appreciate being “synthesized”. They already consider themselves to be an “apex race”. Seeing as they are an “apex race”, and care not for any “lesser” species, one could assume they would attempt to regain their former authority. Like EDI said, all races are now supposed to be “connected”. To me, that just sounds like an easier way for the Leviathans to hijack people’s minds. I don’t think they’d like being connected to lesser species either. [/Levy spoilers]
What about the Synthehusk™? Is it, not to mention other reaper thralls like banshees, a part of galactic society now? What about the reapers? If we believe the Guardian about synthesis working, and the reapers actually being benevolent saviours, then we should also believe what Sovereign said about the reapers being at the “pinnacle of evolution”. Or should we just pick and choose what parts of what the reapers tell us to believe? If “synthesis is the final evolution of all life” according to the Guardian, then what how could the reapers, who are already there, be elevated?

One more question among many, and perhaps the most important one: Does synthesis change the way people think; rewrite them? I believe the short answer is yes, based on in-game evidence. Since there are many, many, many, quotes from characters stating they would only accept the reapers if they were dead, I’ll only cite what I thought to be the most important ones.

 “Dead reapers are how we win this.” – Hackett

 “Because the Reapers are repulsive. They are dedicated to nothing but self-preservation. I am different.” – EDI

 “I am here to fight the Reapers. That is my purpose. My only purpose. I am the avatar of vengeance, the last voice of a dead race. I will avenge my people, no matter the cost.” – Javik

I chose these because, as far as I can remember, it is impossible to achieve synthesis with low enough EMS to have squadmates die, therefore Javik must survive. EDI and Hackett also must survive. What do squadmates think of being rewritten?

“If you change who someone is, how they think, you have killed them. They will be something new in the same body.” – Samara

“That sounds dangerously close to indoctrination, unless there’s something I’m missing.” – Garrus

And perhaps the most applicable, seeing as how synthesis seems to create a utopia:

“If you screwed with my head, made me nod and smile at everything... I’d rather you blew my head off. Let me die as me.” - Jack

My point is, synthesis is a no win scenario. If it does not rewrite people, then Javik, Hackett, logically EDI, and many others would continue to fight the reapers. If they do not, they are rewritten and are therefore dead. As you can see, synthesis now raises more questions, and answers few. Not exactly what I’d call viewing the impacts of our choices.

So what do you think? For the first part of EC’s promises, showing the consequences of our choices, does EC pass or fail?

Edit: Fixed formatting.
Edit: Fixed bolded and italicized sections. Any idea how to fix them not working after pasting this from word?
Edit: Going to eat dinner. Back later. Any constructive criticism for this forst half would be great! Thanks! Posted Image

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 07 septembre 2012 - 01:03 .


#19753
chadesh

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I just thought of a few things to throw out there to anyone willing.

Now while watching the IT documetary I thought of a couple examples that got me thinking that shepard never did make it to the cidital and dreamed everthing.
Think about what shepard has been through. excessive bleeding and head injuries, heh full body trama and what that itself can causes. Basically the same thing indoctrination can.

Remember the scene in the begining of MW3 when the reapers first attacked. How shepard was blown back against the wall. Well I am thinking that the same thing happened during the final push when he got blasted he was blown back and into the rumble.
While the team members also got blown back aswell. Someone saw it and the normandy came down and saved them. normandy has it's own stealth drive and the reaper IFF. unless the normandy took agressive action towards the reapers they wouldn't even notice them.

I know the extended cut has that, but that could explain why the team members were on the normandy. Reason nobody at the site looked for shepard was mainly because they thought shepard was vaporized and/or there was no time.

I somewhat believe that anderson was the one that used the destroy option. If you think about it anderson really has no attachments to the geth or edi or any synthetic. all he wants is to save the human race and destroy the reapers.
Also theres the scene where joker is refusing to leave and the others say something to him and we all remember what joker said.

Just some random thoughts running around. :P:D

#19754
masster blaster

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Well how is it going guys? I haven't been able to come on here because my parent's and aunt. Want me to only come on here on Fridays and Saturdays since it's back to school. I am only able to come on here right now because tomorrow I am having surgery on my ACl.

Modifié par masster blaster, 07 septembre 2012 - 01:16 .


#19755
BansheeOwnage

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chadesh wrote...

I just thought of a few things to throw out there to anyone willing.



Remember the scene in the begining of MW3 ME3 when the reapers first attacked. How shepard was blown back against the wall. Well I am thinking that the same thing happened during the final push when he got blasted he was blown back and into the rumble.
While the team members also got blown back aswell. Someone saw it and the normandy came down and saved them. normandy has it's own stealth drive and the reaper IFF. unless the normandy took agressive action towards the reapers they wouldn't even notice them.


Italicized: I was thinking that too. That scene mirrors the end very well, and the dream music even starts playing at the beginning.
Bolded: NO! No no no! NO! Maybe Rif could help me out here. Don't let that stupid literalist argument fool you! I am disappoint! Here's my counter argument for the IFF:


I don't want to argue but Harbinger has visual sensors (eyes). He can see the Normandy. Anyway, if no reapers could see the Normandy because of their IFF, the Normandy could just kill all of the reapers. Slowly sure, but they could do it.
So Harbinger just looks at the Normandy and apparently goes:
"Well, it looks a hell of a lot like Shepard’s ship, but the paperwork says it's a reaper ship... so I guess it's all cool."

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 07 septembre 2012 - 01:18 .


#19756
masster blaster

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Hey did we ever go over why the people in peak 15 on Noveria were acting weird? I was replaying ME1 finally, and I notice some of the scientist were hearing voices in their heads.

Also what no welcome party. Anyways I would also like to point out that the novels are in ME2. It's on the Codex, so that all happened, while Shepard was dead/ being rebuilt.

www.youtube.com/watch


Here is the ME2 Codex set on the time that it shows the novels, and it's the whole ME2 codex, so if you want to watch it all. Be my guess.


Also in the Codex about FTL travel, if the fields were to fail, the
ships would be snapped in half, which we see the Normandy be snapped in
half. In the LOW, and MID EMS, but not in high EMS endings.

Modifié par masster blaster, 07 septembre 2012 - 01:43 .


#19757
masster blaster

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Dam it I killed the thread.:crying:

Modifié par masster blaster, 07 septembre 2012 - 01:39 .


#19758
demersel

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masster blaster wrote...


Also in the COdex about FTl travel, if the feilds were to fail, the ships would be snaped in halp, which we see the Normandy be snaped in half. In the LOW, and MID EMS, but not in high EMS endings.


That would be because knowing you have high EMS makes wanders to your sexual strengh. Also your ship would never break in half. :innocent:

#19759
demersel

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Hate brake it to you, but reaper IFF works only for omega 4 relay. ))

#19760
masster blaster

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demersel wrote...

Hate brake it to you, but reaper IFF works only for omega 4 relay. ))


true, but I always wonder how the hell the Collectors found the Normandy, and You had the Reaper IFF instaled by that time in the game. So the stealth system is not the Reaper IFF.


Well there was the mission, where you go on the Collector ship, and Harbinger took over the Ship for a while. Well the Collector General, that Harbinger Controlled.

Modifié par masster blaster, 07 septembre 2012 - 01:56 .


#19761
byne

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masster blaster wrote...

demersel wrote...

Hate brake it to you, but reaper IFF works only for omega 4 relay. ))


true, but I always wonder how the hell the Collectors found the Normandy, and You had the Reaper IFF instaled by that time in the game. So the stealth system is not the Reaper IFF.


Well there was the mission, where you go on the Collector ship, and Harbinger took over the Ship for a while. Well the Collector General, that Harbinger Controlled.


Well, Occuli can see through stealth systems. I'd assume collector ships can as well

#19762
masster blaster

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byne wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

demersel wrote...

Hate brake it to you, but reaper IFF works only for omega 4 relay. ))


true, but I always wonder how the hell the Collectors found the Normandy, and You had the Reaper IFF instaled by that time in the game. So the stealth system is not the Reaper IFF.


Well there was the mission, where you go on the Collector ship, and Harbinger took over the Ship for a while. Well the Collector General, that Harbinger Controlled.


Well, Occuli can see through stealth systems. I'd assume collector ships can as well


Well yes, but Harbinger would as well.


Also what have I missed byne, or anyone?

Modifié par masster blaster, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:00 .


#19763
GethPrimeMKII

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*snip* 


Wow. Face value supporters have some tough questions to answer.

#19764
masster blaster

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GethPrimeMKII wrote...

*snip* 


Wow. Face value supporters have some tough questions to answer.


What was that all about? I would like to read it if you don't mind.

Also was that sarcasim.

Modifié par masster blaster, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:10 .


#19765
GethPrimeMKII

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masster blaster wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

*snip* 


Wow. Face value supporters have some tough questions to answer.


What was that all about? I would like to read it if you don't mind.

Also was that sarcasim.


Not sarcastic at all. Read Banshee's wall of text. It asks alot of tough questions which IMO poke even more holes in the face value interpretation.

#19766
Rifneno

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GethPrimeMKII wrote...

*snip* 


Wow. Face value supporters have some tough questions to answer.


And their answer to everything is "bad writing/bugs lulz ur a cult"

#19767
masster blaster

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Rifneno wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

*snip* 


Wow. Face value supporters have some tough questions to answer.


And their answer to everything is "bad writing/bugs lulz ur a cult"


TIM/" My point exactly."

#19768
masster blaster

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Hey did anyone notice that everyone thought that the Conduit in ME1, was going to be a weapon. Anderson, and everyone thought it was going to be a weapon, but it was a relay inside the Citadel. So maybe the Crucible is not a weapon, but maybe it can be due to the War assets we add to the Crucible. OR it's just a trap, but we use it against the Reapers.

#19769
masster blaster

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Also Cerberus clams to protect humanity, but going back to ME1, they used Human's as their test subjects, experimented on Humans, and even turned Colony's into husk. They used the Dragon's teeth, and turn the Colonist into husk.

#19770
byne

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masster blaster wrote...

Also Cerberus clams to protect humanity, but going back to ME1, they used Human's as their test subjects, experimented on Humans, and even turned Colony's into husk. They used the Dragon's teeth, and turn the Colonist into husk.


We're all well aware that Cerberus is full of **** by now, masster, whats your point?

Also 'Cerberus clams to protect humanity.'

I am now picturing giant clams with the Cerberus logo painted on them protecting human colonies.

#19771
Iconoclaste

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BansheeOwnage wrote...
(Destroy : ... )

Since Bioware said they were not going to be "prescriptive" about the endings possible interpretations, Hackett's speech could not really be more "precise" than it was, leaving room to believe Shepard survived or died, and "rebuilding" has to be done primarily on home worlds, Relays can wait. And since the mini-relay the Protheans made on Ilos was close to the "real thing", there is still a possibility of repairing the network from that knowledge, but that is also left to the freedom of speculation.For communications, some players proposed that the "quantum entanglement comm devices" were not "Reaper tech" and might be repaired to get pan-galactic communication back online. If the Catalyst ever had any reason to lie, it is in his pronostic of the "destroy" outcome, to scare Shepard off this course of action. If he did not lie, than we can infer that "all synthetics will be destroyed" really meant the "Reaper origin tech or design" in synthetics will disappear, leaving the carcasses for potential "repairs". In fact, the weapons (mass effect fields mini-accelerators) in the hands of soldiers on Earth do not blow up when the "red wave" goes through them (with high EMS).

BansheeOwnage wrote...
(Control : ... )

 
"Shepard in control" is a "merged" Shepard : his mind and beliefs have "tainted" the "Reaper collective", so I believe Shepard is now the new "Guardian", some "prime directive" to the Reapers. Any other system (ship computers, Geth platforms, etc) that are not concerned by this "collective" should not be affected by "control".

BansheeOwnage wrote...
(Refuse : ... )


By refusing to make a choice, Shepard is in fact leaving the Guardian to do the only thing he can do : continue the assault, and thereafter the long, unstoppable Reaping of all races. We don't know how the "final victory" was achieved other than with the use of the Crucible later in time. But just like the present cycle happened to stumble upon "Prothean" artefacts and ruins, it's entirely possible that the Crucible's blueprints could be carried forward in space and time by a good number of people involved in its construction. And since it was completely constructed in this cycle, plus the possibility of historical data revealing the existence of the Reapers to future species, the "next attempt" to defeat the Reapers might just be easier. If the Reapers didn't learn from their mistakes, it seems the organics did.

BansheeOwnage wrote...
(Synthesis : ... )


This ending is surely the one Bioware wanted as the "neutral" ending, trying to salvage everything and everyone, along with the furniture. I see it as something that affected biology and "synthetics" in a way that rendered most vital or essential needs "obsolete", without diving too far in the mechanics. Just like the Biblical "utopia", the "Lion will eat (grain?) besides the sheep, in peace", no more war or suffering, and blabla. Seeing plants with "circuitry" didn't make me think the trees were suddenly "sentient", but I am ready to believe they tried to portray the ultimate state of overall "compatibility" for everyone, meaning they will understand their unified goals better than their old "individual" goals, they will feed upon anything that can be deemed "food" without poisoning themselves on a foreign world, there will be no more illnesses, no more hatred and such because, on the micro-level of bio-chemistry, they will all share common grounds. Synthetics will maybe "feel" some "living incertitude" to better apprehend organics, and organics will maybe "feel" the comfort of thinking without the instincts interfering to better apprehend synthetics, but I agree with you that synthesis is one hell of a difficult thing to accept. Shepard was the best candidate for this, because he showed willpower and had no bias towards a particular species (except Reapers, ahem...), so he was the optimal "merging material" in the Guardian's view. Who really cares about the Guardian's views, anyway. But the point is that, by any standards, even the Reapers will now be "merged" with others, the happy galactic soup of joy and security where everyone and everything is able to work in peace and eat veggies without suffocating. I believe the minds of everyone, realizing what is now the situation with green circuitry everywhere and telepathic food, simply re-wrote themselves willingly, and lived happy forever after.

It's a well-known fact that Utopia is Utopia, an ideal that we can tend towards, but belonging to the realm of imagination. In mundane words, trying to please everyone is a bobsleigh ride to failure.

BansheeOwnage wrote...
So what do you think? For the first part of EC’s promises, showing the consequences of our choices, does EC pass or fail?

I would say it depends highly on everyone's tolerance to speculation, but I know for many it did the job, leaving just enough room to make up their own ending and epilogue.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:38 .


#19772
masster blaster

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byne wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Also Cerberus clams to protect humanity, but going back to ME1, they used Human's as their test subjects, experimented on Humans, and even turned Colony's into husk. They used the Dragon's teeth, and turn the Colonist into husk.


We're all well aware that Cerberus is full of **** by now, masster, whats your point?

Also 'Cerberus clams to protect humanity.'

I am now picturing giant clams with the Cerberus logo painted on them protecting human colonies.


MY point is that, TIM lied to Shepard about some Cerberus going rogue. Think about it. TIM set Shepard up ever since ME2. He gave the Collectors a tip about Shepard's VS squad mate, got Shepard into a Collector on purpose. I could go on, but people see TIM as the good guy, which I find it hard to believe, but he isn't. Even before ME3, I always knew Cerberus was not Humanitys protector, and TIM was only trying to get the Reapers/Collectors tech from the base. TIM knew what Reaper tech can due, but he did this anyways. He did not Controle his troops, nor did he Controle anything in ME3. HE was a tool for the Reapers to get Shepard to come to their side,

I know it's not new, but TIM lost it at the end of ME2.

#19773
masster blaster

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Also notice in the past all indoctrinated people didn't have anyone with them when it was all happening.

Saren always like to work by himself, and when he lost his brother, that was his only Connection to his will power.

TIM, or Jack became a hide in the dark person, and never have people around his private chambers. After he lost his friends, that his when the Reapers got a foothold over TIM.

My point is that the only reason why Shepard can with stand Indoctrination , is because of his/her friends, and the people around him/her.

Shepard's squad is always there for Shepard, as well as the crew of the Normandy. Anderson his like a father to both Shepard's, and the LI is the one that is in Shepard's heart. When ever i hear Shepard talk about friendship, I now know why Shepard has resisted the Reapers for so long.

It's the bonds that Shepard/ the player can make, and every time we add some one to Shepard's life, it makes that bond strong, yet if Shepard's friends die, it weakness Shepard's will to fight Indoctrination. I say this because when Shepard lost Thane, and Mordin, that's when the nightmares came back. Then when Legion died they came back again. It's like the Reapers are trying to kill Shepard's friends, so that they can get into Shepard's mind, hence why when Anderson dies, is the tipping point, when Shepard opens his/her mind ( The Citadel) to let the Reapers ( The Crucible) dock with his/her mind.

Then depending on Shepard's choice, will either let the Indoctrination consume him/her, or he/she can fight it. Not refuse that he/she is being Indoctrinated.

Modifié par masster blaster, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:58 .


#19774
FifthBeatle

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[quote]masster blaster wrote...

Also notice in the past all indoctrinated people didn't have anyone with them when it was all happening.

/quote]




Doesnt change your point much, but what about Kirrahe's men on Virmire? They were all locked together and indoctrinated.

Modifié par FifthBeatle, 07 septembre 2012 - 03:07 .


#19775
masster blaster

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[quote]FifthBeatle wrote...

[quote]masster blaster wrote...

Also notice in the past all indoctrinated people didn't have anyone with them when it was all happening.

/quote]




Doesnt change your point much, but what about Kirrahe's men on Virmire? They were all locked together and indoctrinated.

[/quote]

You forget, that each one was tested one by one, not all together. If they are not around eachother, then they are weaker to Indoctrination. Hence why SHepard is alone at the end, with the Catalyst, not anyone else.