80611 réponses à ce sujet

[masster blaster]

I well can I be a crazy old Specter, that is ranting on like a Hanar does?

[lex0r11]

Arian Dynas wrote...

[...]

*scuffs foot*

Um...

Actually... he's right.

There's five of us. Hellish, Fellish, Starbuck, Salient Archer and myself.

We meet regularly in  a 5 way PM.

None of us have any influence, but we have joked that we formed a secret council.

Ah, it's all my fault anyway. He was always asking for answers from a bunch of us and always named a few. So one day I asked "WHY DO YOU REQUEST AN AUDIENCE WITH THE IT COUNCIL?".

What a fool I was.

[TSA_383]

masster blaster wrote...

But really I love IT and would never betray IT at all.

In that case, stop spamming the thread with unintelligable rubbish every 30 seconds... please?

[masster blaster]

TSA It's to late for that. And Chris said a Illos dlc was unlikely so maybe he is lying or maybe not. I am sure he is lying because I asked him if the Conduit on the Citadel is still there, and if the Conduit on Illos still works. I got no reply back like the first time about Illos dlc.

[TSA_383]

masster blaster wrote...

TSA It's to late for that. And Chris said a Illos dlc was unlikely so maybe he is lying or maybe not. I am sure he is lying because I asked him if the Conduit on the Citadel is still there, and if the Conduit on Illos still works. I got no reply back like the first time about Illos dlc.

My brain... I think I'm getting less intelligent just from exposure to these posts...

[masster blaster]

Lex I am Saren after all so sooner our later I would find out. And now I have to activate the Citadel to let the Reapers into the IT thread. Join the Catalyst Lex and together we can find a place for you.

[Zan51]

Not new, dunno if I have posted on these threads or not (Mark2 or 3 I mean) but I have posted here a fair bit.

I put this in another thread about trends, but it fits here too so excuse the repetition.
I have had the feeling since finishing the game that it was incomplete, that the ending we have was not intended to be the final ending. However, there was such an outcry they came up with the EC version. I still think that it was/is intended that the true ending will come about through DLCs and whatever EMS we have gathered, and show that what we did get was IT.

It's "artistic", gotta give you that, and to a degree innovative, but to trick the fan base that they depend on to buy their games, so that they can make more of them, not very sensible. And itsn't that what went wrong with DA2? That ending so annoyed me, being pushed willy nilly to that decision, and having a sister no less that was one of the mages Bioware wanted us to slaughter!

I went on to say I do not appreciate dark and gloomy games. I play them and read books, watch movies, to escape dark and gloomy that's just who I am. Had I known the ME 3 franchise would have gone in this direction for real, would I have bought it? Now? No. Why would I? I want to play the hero it promised, I want to save the galaxy in a meaningful way, I want to feel uplifted the way I was at the end of ME2. So no, I would not have bought it now as a first time player.

Now if IT is real (And I cannot logically see how it isn't) and we do get a different ending based on our choices so far, DLCs etc, I will be somewhat pissed at being tricked into it, but it will have what it lacks for me now, replayability and veracity!

[Hrothdane]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...

Greetings, everyone. First-time poster.

I am relatively new here, as I only became indoctrinated into the Mass Effect series recently. Having already known about the controversy about the endings (though not much about the endings themselves), I still started playing them (because of a Gamestop sale and tvtropes) and have managed to finish all three over the course of the last month and a half. As all of you probably could guess, the ending of Mass Effect 3 left quite a few questions in my mind, and I came here looking for opinions. Maybe you can chalk it up to me being an english major, but I find analysis entertaining. Thus, fan theories intrigue me, though most fail to convince of their validity. I do not know what I believe about the ending quite yet, but I am convinced that not all is as we are told.

Disregarding for the moment the idea of indoctrination and the dreamlike elements of everything post-Harbinger beam, I just cannot bring myself to take ANYTHING the Catalyst says at face value. One of my pet peeve tropes is Villains Never Lie and the Catalyst very clearly explains that he is the collective intelligence of the Reapers, thus the villain. These are villains that have proven many times to not only be extremely careful and ruthless in their plans, but are known to use manipulation so constantly that they can literally do it while brain dead for millions of years. When Shepard stands moments away from defeating them, why would they not do everything to stop him/her up to and including lying through their teeth? The Catalyst even appears in perhaps the most manipulative form the Reaper consciousness could have pulled from Shepard's mind.

This leads to a little theory I have on why the Catalyst's explanations and dialogue seems so self-contradictory and hollow (that isn't the doylist "bad writing" theory). The Reapers have never been great conversationalists in any of their appearances. Their dialogue basically amounts to "We will destroy you. It is inevitible. You could never understand us so I'm not going to explain anything, fleshbag." They talk like an angry stereotype of 90s goth kids. It seems odd that such old and otherwise savvy creatures wouldn't be a little more eloquent or convincing in their arguments, until you realize they never HAVE to. Benezia said that the longer she stayed around Saren, the more his arguments started sounding more correct. When you can reliably mind-control people and time is not an object, why bother with sophisticated speeches? Therefore, when the Catalyst/Reaper Consciousness starts contradicting himself:

Chaos is inevitible. vs. Synthesis is inevitible.
Synthesis cannot be forced. vs. You could synthesize everyone without their consent.
I was created to stop conflict between synthetics and organics. vs. ...So I start a war between them every 50k years.

Non-sequitur logic:

Given
A: Advanced organic civilizations always create synthetics
B: Synthetics will always go to war with organics
C: Chaos
D: A=>B
E: B=>C
F: An organic reached me (the Catalyst) on the Citadel
_____________________________________________
Inverse D=> !A=>!B
Inverse E=> !B=>!C
Transitive !A=>!C
Given F
Conclusion: !A=>!C is not true.

Or just flat-out refusing to give an answer:

Sherpard: Who designed the Crucible?
Catalyst: You wouldn't know them, and it would take longer than I would like to tell you.

This is because the Reaper Consciousness can't argue any better than this. Regardless of whether Shepard is partly indoctrinated or not, the Reaper's need him/her to listen to them NOW; they cannot wait for full indoctrination, nor would they be inclined to risk Shepard breaking free like Saren or TIM did.

Many of us went through this logical breakdown of the Catalyst after the game first launched, (the pre-EC content being far more contradictory than EC) and arrived at similar conclusions. Basically there is minimal evidence that the Catalyst speaks from experience and with any degree of certainty, (i.e., "The Created will always rebel against the Creators" yet there wasn't any real evidence of Reaper rebellion until the Leviathan leak, all of a month ago).

That being said, the "Leviathan", much like the Extended Cut itself, somewhat reaks of "Polishing a Turd"; in other words, forcing a perspective, largely considered distasteful or even Deus Ex Machina, down the throats of the observers.

I for one believe there is ample evidence that Reaper Indoctrination was inspired by demonic possession cases. If this is accurate, then the Catalyst is performing what is known as mimicry: an attempt for the being to take on an appearance needed to solicit a specific response from the target, in a disingenuous manner. In this case, the Catalyst is attempting to get Shepard to let down his guard and trust him, by taking on the form of a child. In both reported possession and indoctrination cases, it would seem as if this "opens a door", making the victim more vulnerable.

Anyway, I'm not about to tell you that the IT at its core is true; that's beyond my knowing. But it satisfies a narrative, logical, and personal preference-based set of considerations otherwise missing in the current endings. Feel free to stick around and ask questions or chat with us. Things can get a little wild or hairy in here, as the vast majority of material has been sifted through and analyzed, from multiple perspectives, over the last few months. But you're welcome all the same.

Coming from a historical, literal, psychological and parapsychological background, I'm just one of dozens who have been attempting to make sense of this perceived problem.

I definitely am leaning towards the IT the more in-depth I go. Looking at the storyline from the storytelling structure and theme perspective of an english major that has taken a few film and media classes (including screenwriting), the ending leaves many issues that require resolution. The fact that so many people from so many analysis perspectives and angles see that something is wrong and incomplete leads me to believe that it must have been intended on at least some level. As I hinted at in my previous post, I prefer to analyze things from a watsonian (in-story expalantion) point-of-view, so the "the writing was just bad" reason doesn't satisfy me unless the evidence becomes especially strong.

What makes me suspect the involvement of indoctrination above every other explanation is how foreshadowed it is. The main storylines of ME1 all involved some kind of mental control element, from the development and eventual reveal of indoctrination to the Thorian and the Cerberus quest to create a perfectly loyal, mindless army. Every single collector mission in ME2 spammed the words ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL, the Overlord DLC was all about forceful control of other beings, Miranda mentions wanting a control chip in Shepard's brain,  Morinth had her crazy space-vampire mind control (perhaps foreshadowing Shepard's ability to resist indoctrination?), and Arrival (billed as the lead-in to ME3) completely revolved around indoctrination as a major plot twist.

Naturally, indoctrination comes up in ME3 quite a bit, but at no point does Shepard even question the possibility. The video logs in the Cerberus base get him/her to question whether he/she is actually the real Shepard, something the project leader herself clearly debunked in the first 10 minutes of ME2, but Shepard never considers the more likely scenarion that spending all those years fighting Reapers and hanging out around their tech and minions left some effect. Every. Single. Time someone brings up getting indoctrinated, they add how subtle it is. Ashley even mentioned after Priority: The Citadel II how it "worms its way into your head," as if to remind the player once more. Notice that earlier she brings up every reason--no matter how remote--to not trust Shepard except the most obvious. Throughout the entire series, Shepard gets called a liar, a crazy-person, a replicant, a traitor, and a terrorist, but nobody thinks to mention indoctrination? The games just seems to dance around that question a little too well and a few too many times for it to have been a complete oversight.

[masster blaster]

TSA it's the Indoctrination that is getting to you. My post are like the Reapers artifacts they only want to get in your head after all.

[Rosewind]

Arian Dynas wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Maybe I am an undercover troll and I am trying to split the IT apart.


Ya right. I was having a fun day with the IT council and all, and tommorow, or well today I will do a nother Masster Blaster rant epsiode.

Um...

I'm actually not kidding.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

[masster blaster]

I get it Rose I am the only one not invited to the Council debates oh well. Iguess I will go find a troll or to and tell them that I want to become one of them, and become there leader and crush them down from the inside, or can get them to stop attacking ITers and start to build up there cases on why the endings are as they are.

[byne]

Quick you guys! Who am I talking about?

-Is a famous Spectre
-Gets the krogan to follow them by curing the genophage
-Gets reaper augmented geth to follow them
-Killed another Spectre who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time
-Is partially organic, and partially synthetic

[Galifreya]

byne wrote...

Quick you guys! Who am I talking about?

-Is a famous Spectre
-Gets the krogan to follow them by curing the genophage
-Gets reaper augmented geth to follow them
-Killed another Spectre who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time
-Is partially organic, and partially synthetic

I...I don't know.

[Rosewind]

byne wrote...

Quick you guys! Who am I talking about?

-Is a famous Spectre
-Gets the krogan to follow them by curing the genophage
-Gets reaper augmented geth to follow them
-Killed another Spectre who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time
-Is partially organic, and partially synthetic

Saren!!!

[masster blaster]

Saren.

[byne]

I'm sorry, the correct answer was Shepard.

[lex0r11]

With LotSB DLC it's also Shepard.

[Galifreya]

byne wrote...

Quick you guys! Who am I talking about?

-Is a famous Spectre
-Gets the krogan to follow them by curing the genophage
-Gets reaper augmented geth to follow them
-Killed another Spectre who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time
-Is partially organic, and partially synthetic

Shepard qualifies for this as well. Or does Vasir not count as being in the wrong place at the wrong time?

EDIT: Swooshed.

Modifié par Gallifreya, 02 août 2012 - 05:53 .

[masster blaster]

I get it.

[jgibson14352]

im going to ask you once, respectfully masster. please stop posting. i was fine with you about a month or two ago, back when i could just ignore every last one of your posts. its gotten to the point where i have to go out of my way to ignore the sheer dribble you post every waking moment. almost every page on this thread has some overly-childish, spelling-error ridden, grammatically incorrect, and unintelligible post by you, but most have much much much much more than that. im refraining from posting a much harsher and much more detailed ranting post ive been building for a while now because ive been having some serious health problems recently and the medication ive been given is making me unbelievably paranoid and moody, so ill wait a few days to try and cool off before ill do anything that ill regret. save whatever respect these people have for you by just getting a ******* hint and shutting up. if you have something genuinely related to this thread, post it. but only do it once. i have yet to see any evidence of you ever doing that. but then again, im basing this off of what people have quoted you on, because i USED to think they would only quote what mattered, but tonight threw me over the edge.

Modifié par jgibson14352, 02 août 2012 - 05:54 .

[Starbuck8]

byne wrote...

I'm sorry, the correct answer was Shepard.

Lol omg. Shepard is Saren 

[Rosewind]

lex0r11 wrote...

With LotSB DLC it's also Shepard.

Yeah but whats her face wasn't in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[byne]

Gallifreya wrote...

byne wrote...

Quick you guys! Who am I talking about?

-Is a famous Spectre
-Gets the krogan to follow them by curing the genophage
-Gets reaper augmented geth to follow them
-Killed another Spectre who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time
-Is partially organic, and partially synthetic

Shepard qualifies for this as well. Or does Vasir not count as being in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Well, I was talking about Shepard, so Vasir does indeed count.

[MegaSovereign]

I will never believe the IT was actually intended by Bioware.

But I do like the non-hallucination interpretation of the IT where the indoctrination attempt is happening in real time. Picking Destroy would free him of the indoctrination as well as destroy the Reapers.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 02 août 2012 - 05:55 .

[byne]

jgibson14352 wrote...

im going to ask you once, respectfully masster. please stop posting. i was fine with you about a month or two ago, back when i could just ignore every last one of your posts. its gotten to the point where i have to go out of my way to ignore the sheer dribble you post every waking moment. almost every page on this thread has some overly-childish, spelling-error ridden, grammatically incorrect, and unintelligible post by you, but most have much much much much more than that. im refraining from posting a much harsher and much more detailed ranting post ive been building for a while now because ive been having some serious health problems recently and the medication ive been given is making me unbelievably paranoid and moody, so ill wait a few days to try and cool off before ill do anything that ill regret. save whatever respect these people have for you by just getting a ******* hint and shutting up. if you have something genuinely related to this thread, post it. but only do it once. i have yet to see any evidence of you ever doing that. but then again, im basing this off of what people have quoted you on, because i USED to think they would only quote what mattered, but tonight threw me over the edge. dont try to reply to me, i dont care.

You know you can just block him, right? I think that will stop you from seeing any posts he actually makes.

Probly wont stop you from seeing when people quote him though.