80611 réponses à ce sujet

[BansheeOwnage]

plfranke wrote...

AllegedVixEo wrote...

I think the goal of Levi was to preserve life, and the way to do this is peace between organics and synthetics.  Semantics.

lol you're just making stuff up to fit your views. Leviathan's exact words are "The Intelligence has one goal, preservation of life." Yet, in the Catalyst's chamber that phrase isn't used once. You can't then say, eh that was Leviathan's goal. He said that's the Catalyst's goal.

Owned.

Edit: Top! Yeah! Take that Estebanus!?  Pie?

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 14 septembre 2012 - 11:09 .

[BansheeOwnage]

Eryri wrote...

Going back to the conversation with Vendetta for a minute, he says something along the lines of "I will interface with the Catalyst and..." before he's interrupted by Kai Leng.

This implies that the Protheans who built him knew (or thought they knew) enough about the Catalyst to design a VI to interact with it.

Later on Cronos station, Vendetta (after probable tampering from TIM) states that the Catalyst is the Citadel. So far so good - the citadel is a big machine, it makes sense that a VI could interface and control it.

However in the end run, we meet Star brat, who claims that he is in fact the Catalyst. For one thing, it seems unlikely that a relatively primitive VI would be able to hack and over-ride the "collective conciousness" of the Reapers, and we never hear anything more about Vendetta's "interfacing" - which seems to be quietly dropped.

Secondly, from a story-telling stand point this seems like one twist too many. We already had a revelation that the Catalyst we were looking for the whole game was the giant space station right under our noses. Another revelation on top of that seems excessive.

First: I think we should pay more and less attention to Vendetta. More before Cerberus; less after. He was hacked.
Second: This was one of the biggest things for me too.

OMGTwist: Citadel is the catalyst!

OMGDoubleTwist: Citadel is not the catalyst!

Seems. Legit.

[BansheeOwnage]

FellishBeast wrote...

What do you guys think about the possibility that ME3 is a hallucination test-type thing induced by the Leviathans? Consider all the inconsistencies introduced in ME3 (from the beginning) and blatant lore-breaking anomalies that seem to get swept under the rug. I know it sounds a bit crazy, just something to consider, since we don't have much else to speculate about atm ;p

Also, what if Object Rho was a Leviathan artifact and not Reaper?

Being all sneaky there F(H)ellish? I think it doesn't have enough evidence, unlike IT. Too much emotional investment for it to be true. And too much repetition if they expand upon it.

[AllegedVixEo]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

plfranke wrote...

AllegedVixEo wrote...

I think the goal of Levi was to preserve life, and the way to do this is peace between organics and synthetics.  Semantics.

lol you're just making stuff up to fit your views. Leviathan's exact words are "The Intelligence has one goal, preservation of life." Yet, in the Catalyst's chamber that phrase isn't used once. You can't then say, eh that was Leviathan's goal. He said that's the Catalyst's goal.

Owned.

Edit: Top! Yeah! Take that Estebanus!?  Pie?

. 
I am not making this up.  The theme throughout 3 games is to preserve life and to do it by bringing organically and synthetics to peace.  Did you miss that?  Saren wanted to save organic life by bringing about the next phase in evolution, or synthesis.  He was under the influence of Reapers at this time.  Illusive Man thought he could outsmart the Reapers by controlling them, in order to save humanity.  But really he became indoctrinated.  The catalyst practically flat out says the only way to stop organic life from creating synthetics that will wipe them out is to stop advanced civilizations with the goal of preserving younger ones.  Bringing peace and harmony between syntheti and organics is the only answer to preserving life.

[BansheeOwnage]

AllegedVixEo wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

plfranke wrote...

AllegedVixEo wrote...

I think the goal of Levi was to preserve life, and the way to do this is peace between organics and synthetics.  Semantics.

lol you're just making stuff up to fit your views. Leviathan's exact words are "The Intelligence has one goal, preservation of life." Yet, in the Catalyst's chamber that phrase isn't used once. You can't then say, eh that was Leviathan's goal. He said that's the Catalyst's goal.

Owned.

Edit: Top! Yeah! Take that Estebanus!?  Pie?

. 
I am not making this up.  The theme throughout 3 games is to preserve life and to do it by bringing organically and synthetics to peace.  Did you miss that?  Saren wanted to save organic life by bringing about the next phase in evolution, or synthesis.  He was under the influence of Reapers at this time.  Illusive Man thought he could outsmart the Reapers by controlling them, in order to save humanity.  But really he became indoctrinated.  The catalyst practically flat out says the only way to stop organic life from creating synthetics that will wipe them out is to stop advanced civilizations with the goal of preserving younger ones.  Bringing peace and harmony between syntheti and organics is the only answer to preserving life.

Listen to yourself - you're... indoctrinated!

[SubAstris]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

byne wrote...

I dont really buy the second one. Unless godchild knows Shep has been dreaming about the kid, taking his form is far too big of a gamble. The kind a cold calculating (not that godchild is actually either of these, though he claims to be) AI wouldnt make.

I agree. There isn't really a reason to think Shepard would care about this kid more than say, the person who died on virmire. Or Thane, or Legion etc. If he chose to appear as that kid, like Byne said, it would have to know Shepard was dreaming about that kid (we don't even know if Shepard remembers the dreams). It's clear manipulation in IT or literal.

The kid is symbolic of everyone who has died. He is Thane, Legion and the VS, but is also more than themselves.

[spotlessvoid]

It's the catalyst answer, we know how fubar his first answer was. Shep brings peace, he is the model for organic/synthetic peace. Not making everything, even plants, cyborgs

Shep doesnt HAVE to make peace with the geth. The only theme in ME has been stop the Reapers

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 14 septembre 2012 - 11:24 .

[byne]

SubAstris wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

byne wrote...

I dont really buy the second one. Unless godchild knows Shep has been dreaming about the kid, taking his form is far too big of a gamble. The kind a cold calculating (not that godchild is actually either of these, though he claims to be) AI wouldnt make.

I agree. There isn't really a reason to think Shepard would care about this kid more than say, the person who died on virmire. Or Thane, or Legion etc. If he chose to appear as that kid, like Byne said, it would have to know Shepard was dreaming about that kid (we don't even know if Shepard remembers the dreams). It's clear manipulation in IT or literal.

The kid is symbolic of everyone who has died. He is Thane, Legion and the VS, but is also more than themselves.

Right, but unless godchild has actually been looking around inside Shep's head, theres no way he knows that.

[SubAstris]

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

byne wrote...

I dont really buy the second one. Unless godchild knows Shep has been dreaming about the kid, taking his form is far too big of a gamble. The kind a cold calculating (not that godchild is actually either of these, though he claims to be) AI wouldnt make.

I agree. There isn't really a reason to think Shepard would care about this kid more than say, the person who died on virmire. Or Thane, or Legion etc. If he chose to appear as that kid, like Byne said, it would have to know Shepard was dreaming about that kid (we don't even know if Shepard remembers the dreams). It's clear manipulation in IT or literal.

The kid is symbolic of everyone who has died. He is Thane, Legion and the VS, but is also more than themselves.

Right, but unless godchild has actually been looking around inside Shep's head, theres no way he knows that.

Yeah, that's why I think that the Catalyst is infact doing that

[byne]

SubAstris wrote...

byne wrote...

Right, but unless godchild has actually been looking around inside Shep's head, theres no way he knows that.

Yeah, that's why I think that the Catalyst is infact doing that

The real question is how he is managing to do that unless Shep is indoctrinated.

[BansheeOwnage]

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

byne wrote...

Right, but unless godchild has actually been looking around inside Shep's head, theres no way he knows that.

Yeah, that's why I think that the Catalyst is infact doing that

The real question is how he is managing to do that unless Shep is indoctrinated.

Yes. Bioware even admitted he was in Shepard's head.

[AllegedVixEo]

Edit: Top! Yeah! Take that Estebanus!?  Pie? [/quote]. 
I am not making this up.  The theme throughout 3 games is to preserve life and to do it by bringing organically and synthetics to peace.  Did you miss that?  Saren wanted to save organic life by bringing about the next phase in evolution, or synthesis.  He was under the influence of Reapers at this time.  Illusive Man thought he could outsmart the Reapers by controlling them, in order to save humanity.  But really he became indoctrinated.  The catalyst practically flat out says the only way to stop organic life from creating synthetics that will wipe them out is to stop advanced civilizations with the goal of preserving younger ones.  Bringing peace and harmony between syntheti and organics is the only answer to preserving life.

[/quote]
Listen to yourself - you're... indoctrinated![/quote]

You guys are too much!  Lol.  I didn't make this stuff up, it's how the game ended!  Not some conspiracy.  I'm just saying that there were clues there all along.  I can see them, other people can see them.. But its one of those arguments you can't win because the answer will always be "see!  Indoctrination!". So grats on making an infallible argument to reconcile the ending of a game.  I'm pretty sure you wil get through the stages of grief eventually and land on acceptance.

[byne]

AllegedVixEo wrote...

I'm pretty sure you wil get through the stages of grief eventually and land on acceptance.

Why is this what they always say?

"They dont really believe in IT, they're just grieving!"

First off: the hell am I grieving? ME3 was great up until the last 10 minutes. Theres really no grieving to be done.

I just realized I dont actually have a second off.

[BansheeOwnage]

AllegedVixEo wrote...

You guys are too much!  Lol.  I didn't make this stuff up, it's how the game ended!  Not some conspiracy.  I'm just saying that there were clues there all along.  I can see them, other people can see them.. But its one of those arguments you can't win because the answer will always be "see!  Indoctrination!". So grats on making an infallible argument to reconcile the ending of a game.  I'm pretty sure you wil get through the stages of grief eventually and land on acceptance.

The irony is thick here. You are the one who claims their argument is infallible. You state what Bioware intended as if it is fact. You don't know any more than we do. We don't have infallibe arguments, though I can see why they would seem infallible to someone like you.

[Eryri]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

First: I think we should pay more and less attention to Vendetta. More before Cerberus; less after. He was hacked.
Second: This was one of the biggest things for me too.

OMGTwist: Citadel is the catalyst!

OMGDoubleTwist: Citadel is not the catalyst!

Seems. Legit.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that was weird. 

[BansheeOwnage]

byne wrote...

AllegedVixEo wrote...

I'm pretty sure you wil get through the stages of grief eventually and land on acceptance.

Why is this what they always say?

"They dont really believe in IT, they're just grieving!"

First off: the hell am I grieving? ME3 was great up until the last 10 minutes. Theres really no grieving to be done.

I just realized I dont actually have a second off.

You don't really need one. IT is as valid as literal, according to Bioware. As. Just as valid. Not more, not less. Who's to say they didn't intend it?

[byne]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

AllegedVixEo wrote...

You guys are too much!  Lol.  I didn't make this stuff up, it's how the game ended!  Not some conspiracy.  I'm just saying that there were clues there all along.  I can see them, other people can see them.. But its one of those arguments you can't win because the answer will always be "see!  Indoctrination!". So grats on making an infallible argument to reconcile the ending of a game.  I'm pretty sure you wil get through the stages of grief eventually and land on acceptance.

The irony is thick here. You are the one who claims their argument is infallible. You state what Bioware intended as if it is fact. You don't know any more than we do. We don't have infallibe arguments, though I can see why they would seem infallible to someone like you.

I like how he based that entire post on you saying 'You're indoctrinated!'

You're clearly just joking.

Literalists need to stop taking absolutely everything literally.

[GethPrimeMKII]

[quote]AllegedVixEo wrote...



Edit: Top! Yeah! Take that Estebanus!?  Pie? [/quote]. 
I am not making this up.  The theme throughout 3 games is to preserve life and to do it by bringing organically and synthetics to peace.  Did you miss that?  Saren wanted to save organic life by bringing about the next phase in evolution, or synthesis.  He was under the influence of Reapers at this time.  Illusive Man thought he could outsmart the Reapers by controlling them, in order to save humanity.  But really he became indoctrinated.  The catalyst practically flat out says the only way to stop organic life from creating synthetics that will wipe them out is to stop advanced civilizations with the goal of preserving younger ones.  Bringing peace and harmony between syntheti and organics is the only answer to preserving life.

[/quote]
Listen to yourself - you're... indoctrinated![/quote]

You guys are too much!  Lol.  I didn't make this stuff up, it's how the game ended!  Not some conspiracy.  I'm just saying that there were clues there all along.  I can see them, other people can see them.. But its one of those arguments you can't win because the answer will always be "see!  Indoctrination!". So grats on making an infallible argument to reconcile the ending of a game.  I'm pretty sure you wil get through the stages of grief eventually and land on acceptance.

[/quote]

Aw. I was just beginning to like you until you threw out that line.

[AllegedVixEo]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

AllegedVixEo wrote...

You guys are too much!  Lol.  I didn't make this stuff up, it's how the game ended!  Not some conspiracy.  I'm just saying that there were clues there all along.  I can see them, other people can see them.. But its one of those arguments you can't win because the answer will always be "see!  Indoctrination!". So grats on making an infallible argument to reconcile the ending of a game.  I'm pretty sure you wil get through the stages of grief eventually and land on acceptance.

The irony is thick here. You are the one who claims their argument is infallible. You state what Bioware intended as if it is fact. You don't know any more than we do. We don't have infallibe arguments, though I can see why they would seem infallible to someone like you.

Sorry.  I guess Bioware lied to me to when they said they weren't changing the ending, and that everything had played out as intended, or that they would not have any more end game DLC, and there would be no more end game playable content.  That sounds pretty resounding.  But while it may not seem this way now, I didn't come to this forum to ****** on anyone's parade.  I was curious as to how this was still going, I asked a few questions and gained some insight and understanding about the movement.  Some of the people here are very nice and interesting, and that said, I still don't subscribe to this theory so I think I got what I needed from this forum.  Thanks.

[demersel]

AllegedVixEo wrote...
 Some of the people here are very nice and interesting, and that said, I still don't subscribe to this theory so I think I got what I needed from this forum.  Thanks.

Glad we could help. We'll send you the bill. 

[byne]

AllegedVixEo wrote...

Sorry.  I guess Bioware lied to me to when they said they weren't changing the ending, and that everything had played out as intended, or that they would not have any more end game DLC, and there would be no more end game playable content.

They also said pre-EC that the EC wouldnt add any more endings. Look how that turned out.

You'll forgive us if we dont take BioWare at their word.

[BansheeOwnage]

byne wrote...

I like how he based that entire post on you saying 'You're indoctrinated!'

You're clearly just joking.

Literalists need to stop taking absolutely everything literally.

Hahahaha! I know! I laughed really hard when I read that. It's almost like they're...

gullible?

Or Naive?

[D.Sharrah]

byne wrote...

snip...

I just realized I dont actually have a second off.

This made me LOL!  Just too funny...

[Bill Casey]

Preserving life at any cost is horrible...
There are some things worth dying for...
Some things worth killing for...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 14 septembre 2012 - 11:44 .

[D.Sharrah]

byne wrote...

snip...

Literalists need to stop taking absolutely everything literally.

Byne, you have the laugh magic today!