80611 réponses à ce sujet

[TheConstantOne]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Uploading Synthesis video.

Error! There was a problem uploading the Synthesis video onto your computer. Please try again in the next 10,000 years.

LOL. Starkid tried to upload a synthesis video in the past, but it has always failed.

Don't worry, it's not a bad synthesis video

It has the strengths of all past synthesis videos but has the weaknesses of none!

[BansheeOwnage]

TheConstantOne wrote...

This theme is also touched upon in the Refuse ending, which is the source of debate between which ending actually defeats indoctrination: Destroy or Refuse.  Both are representations of the galaxy's free will but, the way I see it, Destroy is Shepard actively fighting for free will whereas Refuse is Shepard giving up the fight but declaring that the galaxy will continue fighting for its freedom.  Active vs passive resistance. 

For the reasons given above, I still favor Destroy, though the debate is far from over.  If IT is ever expanded upon in dlc, both of those choices could have positive but different consequences

I agree. I'll also repost my thought on the apparent 180 of moral values.


Basically if the literal endings are true (regardless of breaking themes and lore) it means Shepard and all of Shepard's friends and allies are just stubborn idiots. They should have listened to the antagonists (Saren, TIM, Reapers) the whole time. Instead they're just soldiers only able to look at the world down the barrel of a gun. That would not only make no sense at all from a writing perspective, but it would be totally, totally lame.

I also want someone to ask why the apparent moral of the story was something like this:
“The villains were right all along; the hero and associates were just too stubborn to realize it. Also, free will sucks, and gets everyone killed. Better to force something on everything in the galaxy."

Here's how I see it: Whether intentionally or not, BW has in fact indoctrinated much of the playerbase. The fun thing about that is you can't really argue it, because said portion of the playerbase aligned themselves with the reapers willingly. If BW didn't intend this, they indoctrinated themselves, much like what the reapers may have done.

@Constant LOL

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 15 septembre 2012 - 03:00 .

[Bill Casey]

TheConstantOne wrote...

This theme is also touched upon in the Refuse ending, which is the source of debate between which ending actually defeats indoctrination: Destroy or Refuse.  Both are representations of the galaxy's free will but, the way I see it, Destroy is Shepard actively fighting for free will whereas Refuse is Shepard giving up the fight but declaring that the galaxy will continue fighting for its freedom.  Active vs passive resistance. 

For the reasons given above, I still favor Destroy, though the debate is far from over.  If IT is ever expanded upon in dlc, both of those choices could have positive but different consequences

Before Reaper intervention, Shepard was going to use the Crucible to destroy the reapers...
Refuse makes Shepard not want to do that any more...

Let me ask you this...
If you never spoke to the Catalyst, what were you going to do?

Modifié par Bill Casey, 15 septembre 2012 - 03:01 .

[TheConstantOne]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

This theme is also touched upon in the Refuse ending, which is the source of debate between which ending actually defeats indoctrination: Destroy or Refuse.  Both are representations of the galaxy's free will but, the way I see it, Destroy is Shepard actively fighting for free will whereas Refuse is Shepard giving up the fight but declaring that the galaxy will continue fighting for its freedom.  Active vs passive resistance. 

For the reasons given above, I still favor Destroy, though the debate is far from over.  If IT is ever expanded upon in dlc, both of those choices could have positive but different consequences

I agree. I'll also repost my thought on the apparent 180 of moral values.


Basically if the literal endings are true (regardless of breaking themes and lore) it means Shepard and all of Shepard's friends and allies are just stubborn idiots. They should have listened to the antagonists (Saren, TIM, Reapers) the whole time. Instead they're just soldiers only able to look at the world down the barrel of a gun. That would not only make no sense at all from a writing perspective, but it would be totally, totally lame.

I also want someone to ask why the apparent moral of the story was something like this:
“The villains were right all along; the hero and associates were just too stubborn to realize it. Also, free will sucks, and gets everyone killed. Better to force something on everything in the galaxy."

Here's how I see it: Whether intentionally or not, BW has in fact indoctrinated much of the playerbase. The fun thing about that is you can't really argue it, because said portion of the playerbase aligned themselves with the reapers willingly. If BW didn't intend this, they indoctrinated themselves, much like what the reapers may have done.

@Constant LOL

Hahaha I couldn't agree more.  If you ever talk to a hard core control supporter as to why it is the best option and how they know Shepard can do it, you will end up having an argument *exactly* like Shepard's argument with TIM in the end scenes.  Coincidence? I think not

[BansheeOwnage]

Bill Casey wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

This theme is also touched upon in the Refuse ending, which is the source of debate between which ending actually defeats indoctrination: Destroy or Refuse.  Both are representations of the galaxy's free will but, the way I see it, Destroy is Shepard actively fighting for free will whereas Refuse is Shepard giving up the fight but declaring that the galaxy will continue fighting for its freedom.  Active vs passive resistance. 

For the reasons given above, I still favor Destroy, though the debate is far from over.  If IT is ever expanded upon in dlc, both of those choices could have positive but different consequences

Before Reaper intervention, Shepard was going to use the Crucible to destroy the reapers...
Refuse makes Shepard not want to do that any more...

Let me ask you this...
If you never spoke to the Catalyst, what were you going to do?

So refuse indoctrinates? Interesting. It's kind of true too. The main theme of any indoctrinated person's view is that the reapers should not be destroyed. Whether it's Saren, TIM, or Kenson, all for different reasons. But I don't think refuse really indoctrinates you. Rather, it leaves you in limbo; trapped in your mind forever, like in Leviathan. Shepard looks around, confused and lonely. The only difference here is we see Shepard on the outside as well.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 15 septembre 2012 - 03:07 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

TheConstantOne wrote...

This theme is also touched upon in the Refuse ending, which is the source of debate between which ending actually defeats indoctrination: Destroy or Refuse.  Both are representations of the galaxy's free will but, the way I see it, Destroy is Shepard actively fighting for free will whereas Refuse is Shepard giving up the fight but declaring that the galaxy will continue fighting for its freedom.  Active vs passive resistance.

Agreed!

But I do think refusal is fail. You give up on wanting to destroy the Reapers.

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Basically if the literal endings are true (regardless of breaking themes and lore) it means Shepard and all of Shepard's friends and allies are just stubborn idiots. They should have listened to the antagonists (Saren, TIM, Reapers) the whole time. Instead they're just soldiers only able to look at the world down the barrel of a gun. That would not only make no sense at all from a writing perspective, but it would be totally, totally lame.

I also want someone to ask why the apparent moral of the story was something like this:
“The villains were right all along; the hero and associates were just too stubborn to realize it. Also, free will sucks, and gets everyone killed. Better to force something on everything in the galaxy."

Here's how I see it: Whether intentionally or not, BW has in fact indoctrinated much of the playerbase. The fun thing about that is you can't really argue it, because said portion of the playerbase aligned themselves with the reapers willingly. If BW didn't intend this, they indoctrinated themselves, much like what the reapers may have done.

Couldn't agree more, on all accounts.

What's funny, is that many literalists say we are the ones who are (ironically) indoctrinated.

Yet, we (Indoctrination Theorists) are the ones who are unwilling to align our goals with those of the Reapers.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 15 septembre 2012 - 03:17 .

[BansheeOwnage]

Synthesucks.

[TheConstantOne]

Bill Casey wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

This theme is also touched upon in the Refuse ending, which is the source of debate between which ending actually defeats indoctrination: Destroy or Refuse.  Both are representations of the galaxy's free will but, the way I see it, Destroy is Shepard actively fighting for free will whereas Refuse is Shepard giving up the fight but declaring that the galaxy will continue fighting for its freedom.  Active vs passive resistance. 

For the reasons given above, I still favor Destroy, though the debate is far from over.  If IT is ever expanded upon in dlc, both of those choices could have positive but different consequences

Before Reaper intervention, Shepard was going to use the Crucible to destroy the reapers...
Refuse makes Shepard not want to do that any more...

Let me ask you this...
If you never spoke to the Catalyst, what were you going to do?

As I mentioned, I would choose Destroy.  And I would choose Destroy for the very reasons you allude to: I came there to destroy the Reapers.  The point of my post was not advocating Refuse as the best choice but rather advancing it as the "worse-good option" as Shepard is doing what the Reaper's want without actually accepting their authority.

My ending hierarchy goes as follows:

Destroy: best choice; Shepard resists the Reapers and remains true to his goal

Refuse:  second best; Shepard does not yield to the Reaper's willpower, but they do succeed in turning him from his goal

Control: second worst; Shepard yields to the Reaper's desires and yet believes their whims are his own.  It may be possible for someone to save Shepard from this state though it is unlikely

Synthesis: worst ending, Shepard knowingly gives into the Reapers' ideals and acknowledges that the Reapers' designs are superior.  This is irreparable indoctrination

[plfranke]

Bill Casey wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

This theme is also touched upon in the Refuse ending, which is the source of debate between which ending actually defeats indoctrination: Destroy or Refuse.  Both are representations of the galaxy's free will but, the way I see it, Destroy is Shepard actively fighting for free will whereas Refuse is Shepard giving up the fight but declaring that the galaxy will continue fighting for its freedom.  Active vs passive resistance. 

For the reasons given above, I still favor Destroy, though the debate is far from over.  If IT is ever expanded upon in dlc, both of those choices could have positive but different consequences

Before Reaper intervention, Shepard was going to use the Crucible to destroy the reapers...
Refuse makes Shepard not want to do that any more...

Let me ask you this...
If you never spoke to the Catalyst, what were you going to do?

tbh I was going to try and control them. However, I thought this would lead to our civilizations being harvested. I thought this would be a fitting end to my canon Shepard's story. Prior to Mass Effect 3 altogether I was planning to destroy them.

This is an excellent question to reveal how out of place the endings are at face value though. No one can say that at the end of Mass Effect 2 they had it all planned out that they would jump into a beam and unite synthetics and organics.

[plfranke]

TheConstantOne wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

This theme is also touched upon in the Refuse ending, which is the source of debate between which ending actually defeats indoctrination: Destroy or Refuse.  Both are representations of the galaxy's free will but, the way I see it, Destroy is Shepard actively fighting for free will whereas Refuse is Shepard giving up the fight but declaring that the galaxy will continue fighting for its freedom.  Active vs passive resistance. 

For the reasons given above, I still favor Destroy, though the debate is far from over.  If IT is ever expanded upon in dlc, both of those choices could have positive but different consequences

Before Reaper intervention, Shepard was going to use the Crucible to destroy the reapers...
Refuse makes Shepard not want to do that any more...

Let me ask you this...
If you never spoke to the Catalyst, what were you going to do?

As I mentioned, I would choose Destroy.  And I would choose Destroy for the very reasons you allude to: I came there to destroy the Reapers.  The point of my post was not advocating Refuse as the best choice but rather advancing it as the "worse-good option" as Shepard is doing what the Reaper's want without actually accepting their authority.

My ending hierarchy goes as follows:

Destroy: best choice; Shepard resists the Reapers and remains true to his goal

Refuse:  second best; Shepard does not yield to the Reaper's willpower, but they do succeed in turning him from his goal

Control: second worst; Shepard yields to the Reaper's desires and yet believes their whims are his own.  It may be possible for someone to save Shepard from this state though it is unlikely

Synthesis: worst ending, Shepard knowingly gives into the Reapers' ideals and acknowledges that the Reapers' designs are superior.  This is irreparable indoctrination

I think if you choose control, TIM should save you as his final redeeming act in some way. In synthesis you should just lose with no possibility of success whatsoever.

[DoomsdayDevice]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Synthesucks.

lmao, Saren's theme. xD

Nice!

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 15 septembre 2012 - 03:13 .

[TheConstantOne]

TheConstantOne wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

This theme is also touched upon in the Refuse ending, which is the source of debate between which ending actually defeats indoctrination: Destroy or Refuse.  Both are representations of the galaxy's free will but, the way I see it, Destroy is Shepard actively fighting for free will whereas Refuse is Shepard giving up the fight but declaring that the galaxy will continue fighting for its freedom.  Active vs passive resistance. 

For the reasons given above, I still favor Destroy, though the debate is far from over.  If IT is ever expanded upon in dlc, both of those choices could have positive but different consequences

Before Reaper intervention, Shepard was going to use the Crucible to destroy the reapers...
Refuse makes Shepard not want to do that any more...

Let me ask you this...
If you never spoke to the Catalyst, what were you going to do?

As I mentioned, I would choose Destroy.  And I would choose Destroy for the very reasons you allude to: I came there to destroy the Reapers.  The point of my post was not advocating Refuse as the best choice but rather advancing it as the "worse-good option" as Shepard is doing what the Reaper's want without actually accepting their authority.

My ending hierarchy goes as follows:

Destroy: best choice; Shepard resists the Reapers and remains true to his goal

Refuse:  second best; Shepard does not yield to the Reaper's willpower, but they do succeed in turning him from his goal

Control: second worst; Shepard yields to the Reaper's desires and yet believes their whims are his own.  It may be possible for someone to save Shepard from this state though it is unlikely

Synthesis: worst ending, Shepard knowingly gives into the Reapers' ideals and acknowledges that the Reapers' designs are superior.  This is irreparable indoctrination

Also, this hierarchy kind of has a nice symmetry.  My viewpoint allows:

2 resisting choices;  one is complete resistance and one is partial

2 indoctrination chocies; one complete and one partial

The end game choices are reflections of one another, in a way

[TheConstantOne]

plfranke wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

This theme is also touched upon in the Refuse ending, which is the source of debate between which ending actually defeats indoctrination: Destroy or Refuse.  Both are representations of the galaxy's free will but, the way I see it, Destroy is Shepard actively fighting for free will whereas Refuse is Shepard giving up the fight but declaring that the galaxy will continue fighting for its freedom.  Active vs passive resistance. 

For the reasons given above, I still favor Destroy, though the debate is far from over.  If IT is ever expanded upon in dlc, both of those choices could have positive but different consequences

Before Reaper intervention, Shepard was going to use the Crucible to destroy the reapers...
Refuse makes Shepard not want to do that any more...

Let me ask you this...
If you never spoke to the Catalyst, what were you going to do?

As I mentioned, I would choose Destroy.  And I would choose Destroy for the very reasons you allude to: I came there to destroy the Reapers.  The point of my post was not advocating Refuse as the best choice but rather advancing it as the "worse-good option" as Shepard is doing what the Reaper's want without actually accepting their authority.

My ending hierarchy goes as follows:

Destroy: best choice; Shepard resists the Reapers and remains true to his goal

Refuse:  second best; Shepard does not yield to the Reaper's willpower, but they do succeed in turning him from his goal

Control: second worst; Shepard yields to the Reaper's desires and yet believes their whims are his own.  It may be possible for someone to save Shepard from this state though it is unlikely

Synthesis: worst ending, Shepard knowingly gives into the Reapers' ideals and acknowledges that the Reapers' designs are superior.  This is irreparable indoctrination

I think if you choose control, TIM should save you as his final redeeming act in some way. In synthesis you should just lose with no possibility of success whatsoever.

Synthesis=the most prettied up bad ending I have ever seen haha

[BansheeOwnage]

plfranke wrote...

I think if you choose control, TIM should save you as his final redeeming act in some way. In synthesis you should just lose with no possibility of success whatsoever.

That would be perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I want TIM to do that in some way, and you thought of a great way!

[TheConstantOne]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Synthesucks.

Ahahaha! That music makes all the squadmate flashes seem extremely disapproving haha

[plfranke]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

plfranke wrote...

I think if you choose control, TIM should save you as his final redeeming act in some way. In synthesis you should just lose with no possibility of success whatsoever.

That would be perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I want TIM to do that in some way, and you thought of a great way!

In fact, it may come to pass that TIM will be the one who saves you regardless of what your choice is at the end. Perhaps he finds a way to interfere with the Reaper signals just long enough for Shepard to snap out of it. Unless you picked Synthesis, then you just lay there and die.

[BansheeOwnage]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Synthesucks.

lmao, Saren's theme. xD

Nice!

Thanks! Did you see the pic at the end? It's old and it's missing the Y button, refuse, but it's still funny.

[Bill Casey]

*leap of synthesis*






























































*lands on a Dragon's tooth*

[BansheeOwnage]

TheConstantOne wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Synthesucks.

Ahahaha! That music makes all the squadmate flashes seem extremely disapproving haha

You're right. BleedingUranium suggests that I make 3 more for the other endings and put them together in one to compare them.

[TheConstantOne]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Synthesucks.

lmao, Saren's theme. xD

Nice!

Thanks! Did you see the pic at the end? It's old and it's missing the Y button, refuse, but it's still funny.

Throwing the controller gives the true ending.  Sort of like how to defeat Kyle Katarn at the end of the Mysterious of the Sith.

....Now there's an analogy I never expected to draw for ME 3 haha

[Hrothdane]

The video is not working for me.

[BansheeOwnage]

Hrothdane wrote...

The video is not working for me.

What does it say?

Edit: Try the manual link.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 15 septembre 2012 - 03:25 .

[Hrothdane]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...

The video is not working for me.

What does it say?

It doesn't say anything. I'm just getting an empty black box where the video should be

EDIT: Manual link didn't work either.

Modifié par Hrothdane, 15 septembre 2012 - 03:26 .

[BansheeOwnage]

Hrothdane wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...

The video is not working for me.

What does it say?

It doesn't say anything. I'm just getting an empty black box where the video should be

EDIT: Manual link didn't work either.

Restart you browser? I don't know.

[BansheeOwnage]

I'm already making another video! This is fun! It will be done very soon. It's short, but make specifically for Bill Casey. Anyone else want to suggest a video?