80611 réponses à ce sujet

[masster blaster]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Gray nayr you're a condescending shmuck who isn't a fraction as bright as he thinks he is. I got your Elvis right here jerk

clam down. We are gust having a chat not saying who is right, but just pointing out eachothers thoughts.


Edit: I am top baby. Crown me!
 Banshee, and Estebauns the Iron throne is mine.

Modifié par masster blaster, 17 septembre 2012 - 01:38 .

[D.Sharrah]

masster blaster wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

snip...

Now this is a crazier theory than any of your theory's ( I don't mean IT)

True.  Don't think that there is more to be said...

I could go into more details but I will spare you the details.

I do have one question for you (and I might regret asking)...and maybe I am reading into this wrong, but what makes you think any part of Leviathans' are synthetic?

[Lokanaiya]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Just a thought exercise but it could be fun...when exploring the depths of IT and the fit of paranoia has grasped ahold of you, what is the craziest theory that has popped into your head?

I ask because this happened to me last night and I was thinking of Prettz's video...and the implications that it created (both intended and unintended). At some point as I was tumbling further down the rabbit hole - some of the thoughts about the whole game being a dream kept popping into my head. Never gave them much credence before...but last night I found myself thinking that it was possible. And I was even starting to "find" evidence to support it...like how they were parts of the game that just didn't add up and circular logic...and then it hit me, what if ME 3 is supposed to be Shep caught in an internal dream loop of some kind. And as we get more information (from DLC) we get closer and closer to breaking the loop and waking up.

Again, I fully admit that the above is probably nothing more than paranoid fueled ramblings...but didn't Bioware say that they wanted the player to feel what Shep feels...and at some point during the game I would think that it would be reasonable to assume that Shep has felt confused, lost, paranoid, angry, hopeful, etc...the funny thing is that much can be said about how I have experienced ME 3 myself. And I am curious to see how many others feel the same way...

That Shepard got knocked out somewhere early on in Cronos station and he's been dreaming ever since, which would explain how the human Reaper could survive the explosion at the end of ME2 (assuming you chose to destroy the base, of course) how the Citadel could hae possibly gotten to Earth, why you can see hull breachs in the walls on Cronos that lead to outer space, why the fleets going to Earth was so underwhelming, why there are so many things that don't make sense in the FOB but no time before that that Shepard could have gotten knocked out while on Earth, etc.

[FreddyCast]

If my IT vid is not good enough to be added as part of the IT knowledge vids, then Prettz Zell's new IT vid should.

I'm sure you guys already know of Prettz Zell's new vid.

[spotlessvoid]

masster blaster wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Gray nayr you're a condescending shmuck who isn't a fraction as bright as he thinks he is. I got your Elvis right here jerk

clam down. We are gust having a chat not saying who is right, but just pointing out eachothers thoughts.


Edit: I am top baby. Crown me!
 Banshee, and Estebauns the Iron throne is mine.

read his posts...he says IT has the same amoint of evidence as Elvis being alive, snd that its ok if we believe IT but we have to acknowledge it isnt real. He is mocking you. Guy's a tool

[GethPrimeMKII]

spotlessvoid wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

niravital wrote...

What got to me the most in Prettz Zell's new IT vid was the losing video on Arrival if the clock went to zero.

So basically you do nothing, let the Reapers come, and have a vision just like the other indoctrinated people there.
YOU HAVE BEEN INDOCTRINATED.

great vid btw Prettz

Or it just means Shepard is lazy or quit caring.

Also the headaches are stress induced. Joker even points out that Shep his suit's metabolic scans show he's under more stress in ME3 than he was during the Skyllian Blitz.

The nightmares he has are guilt and fear induced. He's dreaming of the dead, because he feels their blood is on his hands, and he's afraid of failure. Proof of the latter his how depressed he is after Thessia.



The only way I see Shepard as "indoctrinated" is that he is the thrall of the player.

The Reapers will never control him because he's already controlled by someone else, us.

Yall can get mad at me, but this is ****ing retarded

Mad? No. Wholeheartedly agree? Yes.

[spotlessvoid]

Btw MB, if Reapers created Leviathan, who created Reapers? t's 100% impossible for synthetic life to evolve naturally, so someone created them. Considering how few leviathan are left, and that the Reapers look like them, it's probably a safe bet that the Leviathan predate the Reapers.

[Gwyphon]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Btw MB, if Reapers created Leviathan, who created Reapers? t's 100% impossible for synthetic life to evolve naturally, so someone created them. Considering how few leviathan are left, and that the Reapers look like them, it's probably a safe bet that the Leviathan predate the Reapers.

Or time is cyclical and humans created everything. Explains why there's english text on the citadel, explains why the starbrats a kid taken completely literally. Crazy but it could happen.
All I know is that bioware seems to think they have something big up their sleeve and all we can do is squabble and wait for THE ARRIVAL.

[Lokanaiya]

spotlessvoid wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Gray nayr you're a condescending shmuck who isn't a fraction as bright as he thinks he is. I got your Elvis right here jerk

clam down. We are gust having a chat not saying who is right, but just pointing out eachothers thoughts.


Edit: I am top baby. Crown me!
 Banshee, and Estebauns the Iron throne is mine.

read his posts...he says IT has the same amoint of evidence as Elvis being alive, snd that its ok if we believe IT but we have to acknowledge it isnt real. He is mocking you. Guy's a tool

Yes, but he's really not worth it. Just ignore him, like I do.

[WhiteKnyght]

D.Sharrah wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

snip...

Well there are parts of the game which take shots at the largest circumstances noted by the theory. Leviathan did a pretty good job by revealing the existence of the Catalyst and confirming his story(along with more details he didn't apparently want you to know about.)

But that could just mean that just those specific circumstances aren't valid.

True that Leviathan confirms the existence of an AI created to solve conflict between organics and synthetics...but this is hinted at by the Prothean VI as well, so its not really new.  And there is nothing in game that confirms that the "catalyst" (especially as is presented in game) is that AI.  It very well could be, and in all likelihood is...but nothing about the AI's existence disproves the possibility of an indoctrination attempt.

Well Vendetta hinted merely at a force controlling the pattern of evolution and conflict. Which is an inaccurate assessment. The Catalyst and the Reapers arguably existed to act against the pattern, namely the sigularity point.

It may not disprove an attempt, but it disproves Shepard experincing ghostly hallucinations as a symptom of indoctrination. The thing he was speaking to is now established as real and speaking very truthfully(with some omissions).

Another point to bring up is that Shepard successfully resisted an indoctrination attempt in the past. Object Rho wormed its way into his mind and kept telling him to "surrender your mind," and Shepard didn't. And after two days of Sedation and proximity, he still killed Dr. Kenson and destroyed the Relay, which the Reapers didn't like one bit.

That actually gives rise to another crazy theory. I don't think Doctor Kenson was completely indoctrinated. A lot of her behavior, like her grief after the Reapers quit speaking to her in her mind(they abandoned her,) seemed like she gave herself willingly to them.

[prettz]

FreddyCast wrote...

If my IT vid is not good enough to be added as part of the IT knowledge vids, then Prettz Zell's new IT vid should.

I'm sure you guys already know of Prettz Zell's new vid.

your vids great FreddyCast  thou I did start my vid to get it on the first post the vid went a little crazy.

Modifié par prettz, 17 septembre 2012 - 02:01 .

[Kamfrenchie]

doesn't vendetta disprove IT by implying shepard in't indoctrinatd on Thessia and Tim's base ?

[masster blaster]

D.Sharrah wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

snip...

Now this is a crazier theory than any of your theory's ( I don't mean IT)

True.  Don't think that there is more to be said...

I could go into more details but I will spare you the details.

I do have one question for you (and I might regret asking)...and maybe I am reading into this wrong, but what makes you think any part of Leviathans' are synthetic?

I am not saying the Leviathans are Synthetics, well they are Synthesis
Organics more like. You see from what the Catalyst says at the end, is
making me think that what if the Reapers created the Leviathans/
Organics. To seek their perfection.

Remember Sovereign said "
Organics are an error" but I never thought that it could mean more. You
see Leviathan seems very powerful to bring down a Reaper with it's mind,
but I wonder if that what caused the Reapers to attack the Leviathans.

As
the Reapers created the first Organics the Leviathans, they wanted to
see if they could synthesis the Leviathans, so they gave them their form
and thus brings us to see them as they are. AS we go further into the
future, we see the Reapers continue their research after they achieved
their experiments on the Leviathans, and then we get to the " Organics
and Synthetic war."

The Leviathan's over time started to become
super beings, that could Control things with their minds, and then we
get to Indoctrination. The Leviathans one day developed the ability to
Indoctrinate their creators, and that's when they striked.

 The
war may have lasted for Century's, but at the end of the War only a few
Reapers were Left, and the Leviathans were about to win the War, when
Harbinger the first, and elder Reaper obtained the ability to
Indoctrinate the Leviathans, and perfected the ability to take over the
Leviathans to make The Crucible, the Citadel, and the Relays.

The relays were to transport the blast radius to shut down the Leviathans for good.

The Citadel was to harness the power of the Crucible and transport the energy to the Relays.

And
the Crucible ( Omega was the Key to this plan, but something happened
during that point in time, that I haven't come to a conclusion yet, so I
will think about it.

[spotlessvoid]

Gwyphon wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Btw MB, if Reapers created Leviathan, who created Reapers? t's 100% impossible for synthetic life to evolve naturally, so someone created them. Considering how few leviathan are left, and that the Reapers look like them, it's probably a safe bet that the Leviathan predate the Reapers.

Or time is cyclical and humans created everything. Explains why there's english text on the citadel, explains why the starbrats a kid taken completely literally. Crazy but it could happen.
All I know is that bioware seems to think they have something big up their sleeve and all we can do is squabble and wait for THE ARRIVAL.

Why is everything else in prothean?

[Lokanaiya]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Btw MB, if Reapers created Leviathan, who created Reapers? t's 100% impossible for synthetic life to evolve naturally, so someone created them. Considering how few leviathan are left, and that the Reapers look like them, it's probably a safe bet that the Leviathan predate the Reapers.

It's a crazy, paranoid theory. It doesn't have to make sense. In fact, it wouldn't be a crazy, paranoid theory if it did make sense.

[Big_Boss9]

Gwyphon wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Btw MB, if Reapers created Leviathan, who created Reapers? t's 100% impossible for synthetic life to evolve naturally, so someone created them. Considering how few leviathan are left, and that the Reapers look like them, it's probably a safe bet that the Leviathan predate the Reapers.

Or time is cyclical and humans created everything. Explains why there's english text on the citadel, explains why the starbrats a kid taken completely literally. Crazy but it could happen.
All I know is that bioware seems to think they have something big up their sleeve and all we can do is squabble and wait for THE ARRIVAL.

God please no. Humanity being the "true ancients" is such a tired sci-fi trope.

Modifié par Big_Boss9, 17 septembre 2012 - 02:06 .

[spotlessvoid]

Kamfrenchie wrote...

doesn't vendetta disprove IT by implying shepard in't indoctrinatd on Thessia and Tim's base ?

Oh god not this again.

1. IT doesn't claim Shepard is indoctrinated. IT suggests the ending was an indoctrination attempt

2. Prothean VI's didn't do a good job identifying indoctrinated people during the last cycle

3. Cerberus had opportunity and motive to hack the VI

BUT number one is all you need

[401 Kill]

Prettz! I just saw your video... It was pretty awesome.

[WhiteKnyght]

Gwyphon wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Btw MB, if Reapers created Leviathan, who created Reapers? t's 100% impossible for synthetic life to evolve naturally, so someone created them. Considering how few leviathan are left, and that the Reapers look like them, it's probably a safe bet that the Leviathan predate the Reapers.

Or time is cyclical and humans created everything. Explains why there's english text on the citadel, explains why the starbrats a kid taken completely literally. Crazy but it could happen.
All I know is that bioware seems to think they have something big up their sleeve and all we can do is squabble and wait for THE ARRIVAL.

Wasn't Vendetta referring to social patterns and events? Such as how the Protheans did with the Rachni what the Salarians did the Krogan and had the same result, betrayal. (Boy I'd love to see Wrex or Wreav's reaction to this little tidbit.)

The Catalyst's form is arguably as hard to comprehend as the Geth consensus. Legion explained that in this case, Shepard will perceive it as something familiar. So it's completely plausible that the form of the child and the fact that the thing speaks with his voice and the kid's voice is just Shepard's mind filling in the blanks.

[plfranke]

Could you people at least read some of the sources before posting something like "This disproves IT." when in reality it's one of the least compelling arguments against IT?

[plfranke]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Gwyphon wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Btw MB, if Reapers created Leviathan, who created Reapers? t's 100% impossible for synthetic life to evolve naturally, so someone created them. Considering how few leviathan are left, and that the Reapers look like them, it's probably a safe bet that the Leviathan predate the Reapers.

Or time is cyclical and humans created everything. Explains why there's english text on the citadel, explains why the starbrats a kid taken completely literally. Crazy but it could happen.
All I know is that bioware seems to think they have something big up their sleeve and all we can do is squabble and wait for THE ARRIVAL.

Wasn't Vendetta referring to social patterns and events? Such as how the Protheans did with the Rachni what the Salarians did the Krogan and had the same result, betrayal. (Boy I'd love to see Wrex or Wreav's reaction to this little tidbit.)

The Catalyst's form is arguably as hard to comprehend as the Geth consensus. Legion explained that in this case, Shepard will perceive it as something familiar. So it's completely plausible that the form of the child and the fact that the thing speaks with his voice and the kid's voice is just Shepard's mind filling in the blanks.

Legion was also able to control what Shepard perceived. That's why he gave Shepard a gun. You really think something as difficult to comprehend as the Catalyst and someone who has already stated he has the power to control someone with the willpower of the Illusive Man couldn't determine what he appeared as to Shepard? Come on guy.

[spotlessvoid]

INDOCTRINATION can be direct control OR it can be a subtle subversion gradually realigning the victim's goals to the Reaper agenda.

Shepard is strong willed and incorruptible, so the Reapers can't easily play on his fears or lust for power. So it's a gradual process that culminates with a direct attempt from Harbinger to control a wounded, desperate Shepard, who has been worn down physically and emotionally and is much more susceptible to a direct attempt by a physically present Harbinger

[WhiteKnyght]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Kamfrenchie wrote...

doesn't vendetta disprove IT by implying shepard in't indoctrinatd on Thessia and Tim's base ?

Oh god not this again.

1. IT doesn't claim Shepard is indoctrinated. IT suggests the ending was an indoctrination attempt

I've mostly been trying to ignore you, but this is something that should be pointed out.

Mass Effect Retribution, the third novel by Drew Karpyshyn, gives a thorough experience of the indoctrination process with Paul Grayson's story.

There's nothing grandiose like the ending scenes. He tried to kill himself, but couldn't, and he eventually felt like a prisoner in his own body(Like Matriarch Benezia said, it's like beating your hands on glass watching as someone else uses your body like it is their own)

Shepard was briefly manipulated by The Illusive Man(who apparently was using the Dominate biotic power given the glow in his fist when he made Shepard shoot) but had his full faculties after he died.

[spotlessvoid]

Ignore me all you want. I don't like you. I couldn't care less what you think.

[WhiteKnyght]

spotlessvoid wrote...

INDOCTRINATION can be direct control OR it can be a subtle subversion gradually realigning the victim's goals to the Reaper agenda.

Shepard is strong willed and incorruptible, so the Reapers can't easily play on his fears or lust for power. So it's a gradual process that culminates with a direct attempt from Harbinger to control a wounded, desperate Shepard, who has been worn down physically and emotionally and is much more susceptible to a direct attempt by a physically present Harbinger

Shepard is a lot of things, but desperate is never one of them. He's afraid of failure, but everyone is. Shepard's attitude is classical resolve. He's driven to his goal, but doesn't get stupid or panic over things.

Worn down doesn't mean anything because Shepard was rendered unconscious and kept sedated for two days by people who were indoctrinated, but made it out with his mind intact.