80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Gwyphon]

Oh I wasn't serious about the humans being the true original race. That would be so cliche. Was just kidding around
As it stands now though, the series has a crazy amount of unanswered questions.

Edit to correct auto-correct.

Modifié par Gwyphon, 17 septembre 2012 - 02:28 .

[WhiteKnyght]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Ignore me all you want. I don't like you. I couldn't care less what you think.

Well if you're way of establishing a theory as fact is by denying other established facts, you're not going to make it very far.

Retribution's events are canon to ME3, since Paul Grayson's mutation was the base and proof of concept for the Illusive Man's entire plan and army in ME3. Sanctuary is just a mass replication of the Grayson experiement.

[spotlessvoid]

It's hilarious how you put your opinions forward as facts. You aren't fooling anyone.

[WhiteKnyght]

spotlessvoid wrote...

It's hilarious how you put your opinions forward as facts. You aren't fooling anyone.

Its hilarious how you put Drew Karpyshyn's writings and the logs that are actually IN ME3 as MY opinions.

Drew Karpyshyn created Commander Shepard, so I would trust any of his other details especially when it relates to Shepard.

Buy Mass Effect Retribution like I did and give it a read.

[masster blaster]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

INDOCTRINATION can be direct control OR it can be a subtle subversion gradually realigning the victim's goals to the Reaper agenda.

Shepard is strong willed and incorruptible, so the Reapers can't easily play on his fears or lust for power. So it's a gradual process that culminates with a direct attempt from Harbinger to control a wounded, desperate Shepard, who has been worn down physically and emotionally and is much more susceptible to a direct attempt by a physically present Harbinger

Shepard is a lot of things, but desperate is never one of them. He's afraid of failure, but everyone is. Shepard's attitude is classical resolve. He's driven to his goal, but doesn't get stupid or panic over things.

Worn down doesn't mean anything because Shepard was rendered unconscious and kept sedated for two days by people who were indoctrinated, but made it out with his mind intact.

Are you sure Shepard doesn't panic at all. The friends Shepard as lost, the tough chocies he/she has to make, and not a single on made Shepard panic at all. When Ash, or Kadin got hurt, and even though they may not be your Shepard's LI, Shepard panics. Shepard panics a lost of times through out ME1-3.

Are you for real. Shepard had visions implanted in his/her head, and his/her mind was fine. Also Shepard if you pay attention is tired of WAR, and he/she is haunted by THAT BOY. That one boy that died on Earth causes the Grear Commander Shepard to quake in fear eveytime Shepard has a nightmer about that boy.

Hell everytime Shepard lost a friend it caused Shepard pain as hell, and now that his/her friends, or LI got hurt by Harbinger beam/ Mako explosion. He/she paniced to get them out, and no player's Shepard can refuse to do this, nor their Shepard feeling fear everytime he/she sees the kid.

Modifié par masster blaster, 17 septembre 2012 - 02:30 .

[spotlessvoid]

You drop Drews name like that somehow makes your interpretation official. Grayson's indoctrination occurred one way therefore all indoctrination occurs exactly that way. That last part is YOUR opinion

[The Night Mammoth]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Worn down doesn't mean anything because Shepard was rendered unconscious and kept sedated for two days by people who were indoctrinated, but made it out with his mind intact.

He also died. 

Although I don't have any personal experience on the matter, I think dying slowly whilst tumbling through the atmosphere of a nearby planet after watching your ship get destroyed, might be a traumatic experience. 

[WhiteKnyght]

masster blaster wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

INDOCTRINATION can be direct control OR it can be a subtle subversion gradually realigning the victim's goals to the Reaper agenda.

Shepard is strong willed and incorruptible, so the Reapers can't easily play on his fears or lust for power. So it's a gradual process that culminates with a direct attempt from Harbinger to control a wounded, desperate Shepard, who has been worn down physically and emotionally and is much more susceptible to a direct attempt by a physically present Harbinger

Shepard is a lot of things, but desperate is never one of them. He's afraid of failure, but everyone is. Shepard's attitude is classical resolve. He's driven to his goal, but doesn't get stupid or panic over things.

Worn down doesn't mean anything because Shepard was rendered unconscious and kept sedated for two days by people who were indoctrinated, but made it out with his mind intact.

Are you sure Shepard doesn't panic at all. The friends Shepard as lost, the tough chocies he/she has to make, and not a single on made Shepard panic at all. When Ash, or Kadin got hurt, and even though they may not be your Shepard's LI, Shepard panics. Shepard panics a lost of times through out ME1-3.

Are you for real. Shepard had visions implanted in his/her head, and his/her mind was fine. Also Shepard if you pay attention is tired of WAR, and he/she is haunted by THAT BOY. That one boy that died on Earth causes the Grear Commander Shepard to quake in fear eveytime Shepard has a nightmer about that boy.

Hell everytime Shepard lost a friend it caused Shepard pain as hell, and now that his/her friends, or LI got hurt by Harbinger beam/ Mako explosion. He/she paniced to get them out, and no player's Shepard can refuse to do this, nor their Shepard feeling fear everytime he/she sees the kid.

Being haunted by things that happen during war and having nightmares over it is common in soldiers. It's called Post traumatic stress. And fact: Shepard's pointed out by Joker as being under tremendous stress.

Also there's a distinct difference between worry and panic. In panic, people lose control, get hyperactive and fall to pieces. Shepard gets his injured men to safety just as any soldier would. He doesn't freak out over it.

[WhiteKnyght]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Worn down doesn't mean anything because Shepard was rendered unconscious and kept sedated for two days by people who were indoctrinated, but made it out with his mind intact.

He also died. 

Although I don't have any personal experience on the matter, I think dying slowly whilst tumbling through the atmosphere of a nearby planet after watching your ship get destroyed, might be a traumatic experience. 

Shepard: "The last thing I remember was the Normandy blowing up"

ME2 quote from the first mission. Shepard has a lapse of memory  where his death is concerned. Probably because he passed out after being blown back and having his air supply compromised.

[spotlessvoid]

You clearly know next to nothing about PTSD.

[masster blaster]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

INDOCTRINATION can be direct control OR it can be a subtle subversion gradually realigning the victim's goals to the Reaper agenda.

Shepard is strong willed and incorruptible, so the Reapers can't easily play on his fears or lust for power. So it's a gradual process that culminates with a direct attempt from Harbinger to control a wounded, desperate Shepard, who has been worn down physically and emotionally and is much more susceptible to a direct attempt by a physically present Harbinger

Shepard is a lot of things, but desperate is never one of them. He's afraid of failure, but everyone is. Shepard's attitude is classical resolve. He's driven to his goal, but doesn't get stupid or panic over things.

Worn down doesn't mean anything because Shepard was rendered unconscious and kept sedated for two days by people who were indoctrinated, but made it out with his mind intact.

Are you sure Shepard doesn't panic at all. The friends Shepard as lost, the tough chocies he/she has to make, and not a single on made Shepard panic at all. When Ash, or Kadin got hurt, and even though they may not be your Shepard's LI, Shepard panics. Shepard panics a lost of times through out ME1-3.

Are you for real. Shepard had visions implanted in his/her head, and his/her mind was fine. Also Shepard if you pay attention is tired of WAR, and he/she is haunted by THAT BOY. That one boy that died on Earth causes the Grear Commander Shepard to quake in fear eveytime Shepard has a nightmer about that boy.

Hell everytime Shepard lost a friend it caused Shepard pain as hell, and now that his/her friends, or LI got hurt by Harbinger beam/ Mako explosion. He/she paniced to get them out, and no player's Shepard can refuse to do this, nor their Shepard feeling fear everytime he/she sees the kid.

Being haunted by things that happen during war and having nightmares over it is common in soldiers. It's called Post traumatic stress. And fact: Shepard's pointed out by Joker as being under tremendous stress.

Also there's a distinct difference between worry and panic. In panic, people lose control, get hyperactive and fall to pieces. Shepard gets his injured men to safety just as any soldier would. He doesn't freak out over it.

ANd don't you think this could help the Reapers Indoctrinate Shepard/ fool everyone else into thinking that's the case. Did Saren,TIM,Grasion, or any other person have Post traumatic stress. No they were being Indoctrinated, and you know their is evidence that can support that the Nightmers that Shepard has are symptims of Indoctrination. Arrival. IF you played it, then you know that it's their, and their is more.

Modifié par masster blaster, 17 septembre 2012 - 02:38 .

[spotlessvoid]

Everything you are saying is speculative! You aren't giving any facts either, just your interpretations of things. It's both annoying and hilarious how full of yourself you are.

[D.Sharrah]

Seems like panic when Shep yells' "Steeevveee!!!"

[prettz]

Paul Grayson was pumped full of nano machines or whatever they are called also was drugged up with red sand cutting off any resistance, it was not a subtle Indoctrination at all.

[WhiteKnyght]

spotlessvoid wrote...

You drop Drews name like that somehow makes your interpretation official. Grayson's indoctrination occurred one way therefore all indoctrination occurs exactly that way. That last part is YOUR opinion

There is the fact that all other presented cases of indoctrination have been pretty much the same. One of the points of the novel was to thoroughly explore indoctrination.(Cerberus even plainly says they are using Grayson to study the indoctrination and conversion processes)

Your method of proving the IT is by denying the previous details we've been given in a game series where facts are pretty much everything.

You're doing the same thing you're accusing me of. You're also acting short tempered, defensive, and making direct personal attacks. Which I can easily report you over, I might add.

[smokingotter1]

@The Grey Nayr

You mention that Shepard is our avatar and we control him, therefore he is immune to indoctrination. I don't know why that would be? We the player are an INFLUENCE on Shepard, but we don't have full control over him.

Take the discussion/decision wheel for instance. You can use the decision wheel to make decisions for Shepard, but you want to notice something crazy? You can't make Shepard say exactly what you want. 

1. You make decisions for Shepard
2. Shepard rationalizes them.

Basically the decision wheel is analogus to how the limbic system works in the brain. Specifically the prefrontal cortex which is part of the limbic system and handles decision making. The exact part of the brain the reapers hijack during indoctrination.

The game through storytelling goes out of its way to show that Shepard is not some superman who is immune to anything. ME2 showed Shepard can die pretty easily in space, nothing the player can do can save Shepard from dieing at the beginning of ME2. Shepard can be shown visions in Arrival, can be trapped in his mind in Leviathan.

If we are controlling Shepard what button did you press at the beginning of ME3 to make Shepard not sad that the kid died?

Players think they are controlling Shepard, they are influencing Shepard. Shepard is a fleshed out character who you can give a backstory to, but ultimately there is only one commander Shepard, you can help him/her make decisions, but it is she/he who rationalizes it through their own preset personality that the player has no control over.

side note, the Amygdala is also part of the limbic system. In studies where the amygdala is cut it causes animals to lose aggression. Its fitting that when Shepard chooses control or synthesis they make a point of him/her dropping the gun, I thought that was a neat touch by Bioware.

side note: good to be back....again.

edit: also it's fitting that the decision chamber (and I mentioned this before) resembles a giant decision wheel in 3D. The reapers are attempting to hijack your prefrontal cortex, they give you three discussion decisions, some rationalizations (which I believe are pure bull****) and you decide. Again the decision wheel influences Shepard, the end of ME3 is about the reapers attempting to influence and then control Shepard. It's a meta 4th wall breaking battle between the player and the reapers over Shepard's limbic system.

Modifié par smokingotter1, 17 septembre 2012 - 02:49 .

[401 Kill]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Seems like panic when Shep yells' "Steeevveee!!!"

Also at the pick-up scene: "I need to know(LI/squad mate) someone will make it out alive."

[spotlessvoid]

Then report me! The first thing you posted was making fun of IT with your Elvis comment. Hypocrite

And at least we know we're speculating. You're the one coming in here with a condescending attitude parading your opinions around like they're facts

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 17 septembre 2012 - 02:48 .

[The Night Mammoth]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Worn down doesn't mean anything because Shepard was rendered unconscious and kept sedated for two days by people who were indoctrinated, but made it out with his mind intact.

He also died. 

Although I don't have any personal experience on the matter, I think dying slowly whilst tumbling through the atmosphere of a nearby planet after watching your ship get destroyed, might be a traumatic experience. 

Shepard: "The last thing I remember was the Normandy blowing up"

ME2 quote from the first mission. Shepard has a lapse of memory  where his death is concerned. Probably because he passed out after being blown back and having his air supply compromised.

Did not know that, though it makes obvious sense in retrospect.  Unrelated, but perhaps players might have taken the nightmares in ME3 better if Shepard's last moments were a part of them. 

I hope that post didn't sound snarky, I didn't want to appear like I was trying to override your point. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 17 septembre 2012 - 02:50 .

[WhiteKnyght]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Everything you are saying is speculative! You aren't giving any facts either, just your interpretations of things. It's both annoying and hilarious how full of yourself you are.

That's the pot calling the kettle black.

I argue using previously established facts as my base. If attacking the way I argue is your only defense(which you're doing over and over) then you have nothing to contribute to the conversation and might as well let it go.

As for the PTSD thing. I've seen cases of PTSD before. I've even heard some about it from my Dad, a real veteran. How he can describe everything he went through with perfect clarity and admits that sometimes when he wakes up at night, it feels like he's still in Vietnam. And that's mild compared to what some other soldiers go through.

[WhiteKnyght]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Worn down doesn't mean anything because Shepard was rendered unconscious and kept sedated for two days by people who were indoctrinated, but made it out with his mind intact.

He also died. 

Although I don't have any personal experience on the matter, I think dying slowly whilst tumbling through the atmosphere of a nearby planet after watching your ship get destroyed, might be a traumatic experience. 

Shepard: "The last thing I remember was the Normandy blowing up"

ME2 quote from the first mission. Shepard has a lapse of memory  where his death is concerned. Probably because he passed out after being blown back and having his air supply compromised.

Did not know that, though it makes obvious sense in retrospect.  Unrelated, but perhaps players might have taken the nightmares in ME3 better if Shepard's last moments were a part of them. 

I hope that post didn't sound snarky, I didn't want to appear like I was trying to override your point. 

No harm done. I just remember that quote accurately enough to type it from memory. I could do the same with pretty much every argument I make if I felt like hunting down the sources.(Although posting content from the novels is likely against forum policy)

[spotlessvoid]

" That's the pot calling the kettle black."

Uh, no. I know I'm speculating. And if you hadn't started with your very first post by insulting us maybe I would be actually willing to discuss with you. But as it stands you're an idiot. Now go report me

[Home run MF]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

You drop Drews name like that somehow makes your interpretation official. Grayson's indoctrination occurred one way therefore all indoctrination occurs exactly that way. That last part is YOUR opinion

There is the fact that all other presented cases of indoctrination have been pretty much the same. One of the points of the novel was to thoroughly explore indoctrination.(Cerberus even plainly says they are using Grayson to study the indoctrination and conversion processes)

Your method of proving the IT is by denying the previous details we've been given in a game series where facts are pretty much everything.

You're doing the same thing you're accusing me of. You're also acting short tempered, defensive, and making direct personal attacks. Which I can easily report you over, I might add.

Grayson was  more of a Husk than human, the Reapers have diferent levels of indoctrination. Benezia and Saren were indoctrinated and didn't have visible Reaper tech (not for the entire game in Saren's case) if you are useful to them because you're in a position of power they are not gonna pump nanites inside you and modify your appereance because your function as a sleeper agent would be rendered useless.
Also we are not saying he is indoctrinated during the game, we're saying the decision chamber is the final click in Shepard's mind, depending on your choice you align yourself with the Reapers logic and become indoctrinated. Like Saren and TIM already did.

[masster blaster]

OTTER MY BEST FRIEND, IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

[WhiteKnyght]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Then report me! The first thing you posted was making fun of IT with your Elvis comment. Hypocrite

And at least we know we're speculating. You're the one coming in here with a condescending attitude parading your opinions around like they're facts

I wasn't making fun of anything. I needed another theory as a comparison and that was the easiest thing I could think of without sounding offensive(My first though was using the Kennedy theory, things involving presidents and assassinations are touchy subjects)

I wasn't even speaking to you, and only started to point out a legitimate piece of information from an established point of Mass Effect lore. You started with the harassment because I dared to disagree with you.

And I've been enduring unwarranted attacks from people like you for months ever since the theory came up. I've seen people defending IT worse than religious zealots who kill over people disagreeing with them. First blood was definitely not shed by me.